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FYI it's made clear in the Technomage Trilogy* that Morden was never put into a ship the way Anna was. His wife had died from a cash in a jump gate, and the shadows convinced him that her soul or ghost was stuck in between life and death, but they could free her and would do so if he worked for them, so he voluntarily worked with the shadows. They did put some kind of control implants, device, or psychic mods on him to help with their control later on, but the initial decision was his. The shadows took everyone from the Icarus willing to work for them as volunteers, so only people who resisted like Anna were turned into ship pilot things. *could have been the Centauri Trilogy, there's also a technomage doing work in that one and it's been a long time since I read them.
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Apr 2, 2024 18:30
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Pantaloon Pontiff posted:FYI it's made clear in the Technomage Trilogy* that Morden was never put into a ship the way Anna was. His wife had died from a cash in a jump gate, and the shadows convinced him that her soul or ghost was stuck in between life and death, but they could free her and would do so if he worked for them, so he voluntarily worked with the shadows. They did put some kind of control implants, device, or psychic mods on him to help with their control later on, but the initial decision was his. The shadows took everyone from the Icarus willing to work for them as volunteers, so only people who resisted like Anna were turned into ship pilot things. I think that was The Shadow Within. But yes, a jump drive incident had trapped his wife (supposedly) in a hyperspace pocket between life and death and the Shadows put her out of her misery in exchange for his servitude.
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Apr 3, 2024 07:07
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I think it's significant that the Shadows just told him they'd do that, we don't see any kind of objective evidence that they did. I remember reading a lot of fan theorizing back in the day about what the Shadows were actually planning to do for him when they offered Cartagia godhood, and I think it all just means 'the Shadows are fine with lying and making wild but unverifiable promises to people to get them to do what they want. The fan speculation about what the Shadows were going to do to empower Cartagia always struck me as strange, I thought Morden's tone made it clear that the Shadows were just playing along with crazy delusions to get what they want. If you've got a crazy emperor who wants to ascend personally to the ranks of the divine and you want him to let you base stuff on his planet, why not tell him you have the ability to make him into a god? If you've got a guy who could be useful but thinks his wife is trapped in a hyperspace gate, why not agree that it's a terrible thing and offer to help him in exchange for his service? It's not like Morden could detect his wife's soul to check that they freed it, or that Cartagia would be able to file an official complaint after he dies if he doesn't ascend to godhood.
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Apr 3, 2024 15:44
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I'm not sure how much Morden and Cartagia were communicating directly, they seem to have been on different pages, and Cartagia was crazy enough to come up with his ascension on his own. Cartagia was also sure that the Vorlons would blow up Centauri Prime, while Morden was specifically betting that they wouldn't, that there were too many innocent people there.
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Apr 3, 2024 18:45
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To be fair, Morden was absolutely wrong about that. I'm really curious what would have happened if those Shadow ships had still been intact when the Planetkiller showed up.
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Apr 4, 2024 03:27
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Boom today.
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Apr 4, 2024 03:55
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Q_res posted:To be fair, Morden was absolutely wrong about that. I'm really curious what would have happened if those Shadow ships had still been intact when the Planetkiller showed up. That's easy, they blow their CGI budget for the rest of the season on one episode.
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Apr 4, 2024 03:55
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Well that was the same episode as the Battle of Coriana VI, so they already were. 
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Apr 4, 2024 04:02
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Pantaloon Pontiff posted:I think it's significant that the Shadows just told him they'd do that, we don't see any kind of objective evidence that they did. I remember reading a lot of fan theorizing back in the day about what the Shadows were actually planning to do for him when they offered Cartagia godhood, and I think it all just means 'the Shadows are fine with lying and making wild but unverifiable promises to people to get them to do what they want. The fan speculation about what the Shadows were going to do to empower Cartagia always struck me as strange, I thought Morden's tone made it clear that the Shadows were just playing along with crazy delusions to get what they want. I think we (the reader through Anna) see a vision of a Shadow warship destroying the ship his wife is trapped on, but that's hardly objective evidence. It's been a while but I think Anna even says it could be a lie and it's just what he wants to see. Guess that was Morden's answer to 'what do you want?'
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Apr 4, 2024 09:23
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Pantaloon Pontiff posted:I think it's significant that the Shadows just told him they'd do that, we don't see any kind of objective evidence that they did. I wonder what they might do, but my assumption was always that the Shadows sold him a load of BS he'd easily buy. After all, not like he'll know if he gets blown up with the rest of the planet. quote:I'm really curious what would have happened if those Shadow ships had still been intact when the Planetkiller showed up. IIRC, I think JMS said they would have turned around anyway? they got called to the bigger conflict.
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Apr 4, 2024 10:23
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Small White Dragon posted:I wonder what they might do, but my assumption was always that the Shadows sold him a load of BS he'd easily buy. After all, not like he'll know if he gets blown up with the rest of the planet. I know they got called away, I was more looking at it from the perspective of what the Shadows would have done when they saw it coming. Would they have attacked it, or just peaced out and left the Centauri (and Morden) to their fate? I suspect the 2nd.
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Apr 4, 2024 10:30
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I imagine so, they didn't intervene with any of the other worlds the Vorlons targeted (and vice versa). Both sides had decided the game was ruined and were sweeping the board clean, they weren't interested in a direct conflict until Sheridan forced it.
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Apr 4, 2024 10:35
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I think it's more fun to think of Morden as having gone over to the Shadows voluntarily, either because he was convinced of their cause or they just could pony up enough money for him to say screw the galaxy.
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Apr 4, 2024 14:36
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Giving him a tragic wife backstory was also kind of weird (also, did we need more wife trauma on B5?). The way he seems to work in the show is just as a guy who backs the winner. He doesn't come across to me as either a true believer or a someone doing this job only because he's trying to put someone he loves to rest. He comes across to me like someone who enjoys working for the real big boys of the galaxy. He seems to me like he's genuinely comfortable unapologetically playing absolutely everyone.
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Apr 4, 2024 15:06
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Small White Dragon posted:I wonder what they might do, but my assumption was always that the Shadows sold him a load of BS he'd easily buy. After all, not like he'll know if he gets blown up with the rest of the planet. They were going to blow up Centuri Prime just to kill Londo at that point, getting the call to come help in the war took precedence over everything.
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Apr 4, 2024 17:34
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pentyne posted:They were going to blow up Centuri Prime just to kill Londo at that point, getting the call to come help in the war took precedence over everything. I don't think they were going to blow it up 'just to kill Londo'. All of the dialogue in the show that I remember is that they were destroying planets that sided with the Shadows and had decided that Centauri Prime was one of them. Londo came up with the idea that they were going to blow up the planet to get at him, but nothing aside from his ego and guilt supports that, and it seems much more likely that the Vorlons had just decided 'this planet has been corrupted and must be cleansed' or 'we have slated this planet for destruction and will not change our plans' than that they were specifically targetting Londo.
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Apr 5, 2024 20:25
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https://twitter.com/Grey17Podcast/status/1776273468780118293
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Apr 6, 2024 03:49
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It'd be nice, but at this point I'll believe it when I see it.
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Apr 6, 2024 03:55
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"Most resilient" whatever that means.
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Apr 6, 2024 04:22
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Featuring Mark Prosch as Zathras
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Apr 6, 2024 06:05
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Featuring Mark Prosch as Zathras Wait; Zathras, Zathras, or Zathras?
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Apr 6, 2024 06:23
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Wait; Zathras, Zathras, or Zathras? No, Zathras.
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Apr 6, 2024 06:57
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Ravenson posted:No, Zathras. No, no, not Zathras. Zathras is much handsoomer and looker in family and should be played by Misters Mark Proch.
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Apr 6, 2024 07:03
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Featuring Mark Prosch as Zathras Tch, no, not the one. No, no, not the one. Plus, JMS will have to fight tooth and nail to not have a committee mandated line that goes, "God, that guy is so draining."
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Apr 6, 2024 14:52
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What was the impression of the anime B5 movie that came out last year that looks like something Roosterteeth did? Almost everything post B5 has been done on a shoestring budget and JMS had to keep trying to find cheaper and cheaper ways to make B5 content. Lost Voices was kind of hype at the time but it felt more like a filmed stage play. Hell, anything new B5 related is going to be a miracle plus while the nostalgia bait for bringing back the original cast is there, its more depressing to realize how more of the main cast is dead then alive but not even the ones you'd expect, a lot of of the younger cast at the time of filming.
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Apr 6, 2024 17:47
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I'll put this here while trying to figure it out, I never paid too close attention to B5 news and didn't know about the anime, but there's the HD version of the series so I'm trying to put together a list of all the B5 content I am meaning to buy and watch in HD for the first time. These are all Amazon Prime Video links so if there is a better resource I'd love to know The Babylon 5 Movies The collection of the various feature length movies all in SD. Costs $2 each - In the Beginning - Thirdspace - River of Souls - Call to Arms - Legend of the Rangers - Lost Tales The Lost Tales HD A stand lone purchase of The Lost Tales in HD, costs $21. Babylon 5 Season 1 Babylon 5 Season 2 Babylon 5 Season 3 Babylon 5 Season 4 Babylon 5 Season 5 Complete series, available in HD for $23 a season. Crusade The single season spin off that was okay, kind of lame with how little they could do. Only in SD for $23 Babylon 5 The Road Home A Roosterteeth style anime movie. UHD quality for $15.
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Apr 6, 2024 18:04
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pentyne posted:What was the impression of the anime B5 movie that came out last year that looks like something Roosterteeth did? It was nice to have something new.
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Apr 6, 2024 18:11
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I recommend not paying extra for lost tales in hd.
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Apr 6, 2024 18:11
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I recommend not paying anything for Legend of the Rangers, look up G'Kar's scenes on youtube and pretend they're clips from an unfinished lost episode.
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Apr 6, 2024 18:22
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Remember when the DVD box sets cost 60 dollars or more. Might have been close to a hundred per season. It wasn't cheap I remember that. It was around the same time it got reported how the show was making crazy amounts of money for the studio. JMS was livid as no one else saw the benefits, and the show while created to be upgraded so it didn't look out dated as time and tech progressed was denied the planned better updated models.
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Apr 6, 2024 18:30
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Just finished rewatching TKO and yep, that still sure is an episode. The A-plot is... bad. The B-plot has a few good moments but I still want to strangle the rabbi (and to a lesser but firmer degree Sinclair) for forcing Ivanova to do things when she is literally perfect.
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Apr 6, 2024 19:18
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The Last Call posted:Remember when the DVD box sets cost 60 dollars or more. Might have been close to a hundred per season. It wasn't cheap I remember that. It was around the same time it got reported how the show was making crazy amounts of money for the studio. I managed to buy an entire bootleg DVD set off Amazon for $100 in the era before they tried to make an attempt to clamp down on it. DVD box sets went from reasonable to insanely high back down to reasonable after blu-rays were firmly established. pentyne fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Apr 6, 2024 |
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Apr 6, 2024 20:28
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River of Souls is the only movie where I thought it was Joe Estevez but it turned out to actually be Martin Sheen, instead of the other way around
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Apr 7, 2024 03:43
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McSpanky posted:I recommend not paying anything for Legend of the Rangers, look up G'Kar's scenes on youtube and pretend they're clips from an unfinished lost episode. $2 is fine, just expect to make fun out of a lot of stuff. It is bad in precisely that B5-bad way that can be entertaining. And I consider it fun guessing the JMS character twists (my favorite in Rangers is guessing that the Hand are mostly con artists with access to some ancient tech, but that the people they’re pretending to be were gonna start waking up for real). $2 for Lost Tales is too much without the Special Features, which are about 50% JMS saying that for the little money WB offered, he might just have been able to do a B5 puppet show. There is at least one clip of JMS with puppets. Almost hilarious enough to make up for the fact that WB really didn’t give him enough money.
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Apr 7, 2024 06:59
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I watched it ages ago, my memory of Lost Tales is one of them was pretty good and the other one sucked rear end. I've been watching Crusade for the first time. Good lord what a weird show. I can see why it got cancelled, though occasionally it's brilliant. The X-Files episode is nuts.
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Apr 7, 2024 07:02
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pentyne posted:What was the impression of the anime B5 movie that came out last year that looks like something Roosterteeth did? Almost everything post B5 has been done on a shoestring budget and JMS had to keep trying to find cheaper and cheaper ways to make B5 content. Lost Voices was kind of hype at the time but it felt more like a filmed stage play. it was pretty bad and imo is worse than lost tales but not as bad as legend of the rangers
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Apr 7, 2024 09:27
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Grand Fromage posted:I've been watching Crusade for the first time. Good lord what a weird show. I can see why it got cancelled, though occasionally it's brilliant. The X-Files episode is nuts. I wonder how Crusade would have looked had there not been network interference with things like wanting a brand new episode 1, as well as not being cancelled right before they would have filmed its equivalent of Signs and Portents?
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Apr 7, 2024 13:26
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pentyne posted:What was the impression of the anime B5 movie that came out last year that looks like something Roosterteeth did? Almost everything post B5 has been done on a shoestring budget and JMS had to keep trying to find cheaper and cheaper ways to make B5 content. Lost Voices was kind of hype at the time but it felt more like a filmed stage play. I personally enjoyed the animated movie more than any of the TV or direct-to-video movies except for In The Beginning and maybe A Call to Arms. It's sheer fanservice but quite enjoyable.
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Apr 7, 2024 13:50
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Grand Fromage posted:I watched it ages ago, my memory of Lost Tales is one of them was pretty good and the other one sucked rear end. I think there's sort of supposed to be three, but two of them are so connected it's sorta just one thing. The first one kinda can be an interesting story, but has basically nothing to do with the rest of the entire franchise and just stands alone. Lochley talking with a guy who is supposedly being possessed by a demon and trying to figure out how to deal with him. The others are actually connected with and continuing some of the story of the franchise in interesting ways. Sheridan having a long interview with an INS reporter, and then having a whole thing with a visiting Centauri aristocrat failson and a Ranger is trying to influence Sheridan to assassinate the Centauri because of some kind of prediction or prophecy that the Centauri failson will one day attack Earth and kill millions. Sheridan instead chooses to try to help raise the failson to learn empathy. I think in either case, they both suffer from very low budget, and much like some of the movies, I think the whole general style of Babylon 5 doesn't work without having a B plot to cut away to. It's just too self-serious and lacks the real texture that made the show work.
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Apr 7, 2024 15:16
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SlothfulCobra posted:.... ... That's no Ranger, that is Galen, the Technomage from the Crusade series.
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Apr 7, 2024 15:21
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