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Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl

Timby posted:

I'll never forget the amazing Internet spat he got into with Mark Waid and someone else from Marvel Comics after he took a shot at Spider-Man sales after he left the book.

The whole thing is worth a read for how hilariously petty he was about the whole thing, and it ends with a sick ice burn from Mark Waid:

(This being a reference to Superman: Grounded, a comic book storyline about Superman taking a walk across the United States and helping random people. Straczynski left the book before it was even halfway finished.)

I know you've posted that quote before but I don't recall reading that whole exchange before... and it's just incredible to see JMS pretend to not know why someone might take issue with his post. Like, was he just bored and decided it was time to stir up a flame war?

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Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl

usenet celeb 1992 posted:

I'm pretty convinced that the original plan for S5 was to have Talia being the one leading the telepath rebellion pitting her against Ivanova as B5 commander, and I want to live in that universe.

I'm not sure telepath rebellion was in the plan yet when Talia was still around.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl
I've started watching B5 with one of my friends who has never watched it before and she was dying at Catherine Sakai's makeup in Parliament of Dreams, said it was "very 80s."

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl

ultrafilter posted:

It's this. The Shadows also may have shown Ivanova the recording she found in Voices of Authority that proved Clark was involved in Santiago's assassination because that allowed them to destabilize Earth.

I don't think it was in the Shadows' interests to foster a human civil war at that moment, though. The Shadows want the Clark regime in power because they're the xenophobic fascists who will eventually be willing to drive humanity to war against their neighbors. The civil war is about a question that the Shadows already have a preferred answer/outcome for, they wouldn't have wanted humanity wasting its time and energy on fighting over that when there are other states/species to prove their dominance over (especially, in my view, the Minbari; I've long suspected the shadow-tech advanced destroyers were intended for an eventual rematch).

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl

McSpanky posted:

Yeah, the telepaths may have gotten a raw deal from Earth society and Earthgov, but they sure didn't waste any time going full fash with their little gestapo club. Secret hyperspace bases, murder initiation rites, all manner of sleeper agents, routinely illegally scanning civilians, trapping people in endless psychic nightmares, eugenics programs... JMS himself said of seeing Bester's 'good side', "Even Hitler painted roses."

My read on Bester is that in his preferred world order, there would continue to be mundanes, but only so that telepaths would have a slave caste to do the dangerous and undesirable jobs. I also strongly suspect a fully Psi Corps-controlled humanity would likely eventually be a threat to its neighbors.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl

Milkfred E. Moore posted:

The thing about Bester (and the Psi Corps) is that JMS seems to genuinely view telepathy as an existential threat to humanity, one that will flip a switch in people and turn them into monsters.

I don't read that at all, especially considering there are other societies in the B5 galaxy with telepaths that didn't turn into telepath-controlled hellholes. The people running away and hiding from Psi Corps don't really track as monsters either.



SlothfulCobra posted:

(and of course, the Psi Corps was heavily in favor of Clark before he started selling Telepaths to the Shadows).

I can easily believe that there were elements of Psi Corps that were perfectly happy to sell telepaths to the Shadows in exchange for more power.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl

Jedit posted:

Justin says it when Sheridan asks. He also says that if they do kill him someone else will take his place. But Justin says a lot of things, and he's evasive. When the Shadows come in after Sheridan refuses their offer, maybe they're going to drag him away, but it doesn't look like it. And "Anna" is still desperate to get him to change his mind, which wouldn't matter if the Shadows planned to change it for him.

I'm not sure Justin was really right about it either. Up until Sheridan showed up at the station again, things were looking really bleak; the alliance had largely fallen apart and Delenn was getting ready to lead a suicide charge of what remained right at Z'ha'dum. Doesn't seem like Sheridan was as effective as a martyr as he expected. (Although he certainly was during the Earth civil war; that scene

I suppose you could argue that Justin wasn't accounting for a White Star with nuclear weapons slamming straight into the Shadow capital, but then I feel like until that happened the implied threat was that if Sheridan had ultimately refused to cooperate then they were going to destroy Babylon 5... which again seems like a pretty bleak place as I don't see the alliance surviving that blow either.


Jedit posted:

And that only happened because she and Sheridan were falling in love, which would have been about the last thing Clark would have expected. Heck, it was the last thing Sheridan expected.

@Narsham - the Shadows probably weren't worried about Sheridan shooting himself, considering they were going to kill him if he didn't accept their offer.

Ehhhhh I think the intervention would have happened without the romance angle, B5 was obviously a vital element for the Army of Light, and Sheridan was already a partner in the effort against the Shadows by that point. Letting Clark take B5 would have been a big blow for her interests regardless of Sheridan.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl

Jedit posted:

Here's the full version of the top picture including the original logo for the station and show:



The artist is Peter Ledger, who in 1994 became the first victim of the "Babylon Curse" when he was killed in a road accident aged just 49.

It will come as no surprise to you that Ledger got his big break from George Lucas and Gary Kurtz, seeing as how the fighter ship in bottom left is basically Ralph McQuarrie's B-Wing from Return of the Jedi painted red.

For some reason, and I think it's the color palette (but I could be wrong), that art makes me think of Blake's 7

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl

John Wick of Dogs posted:

Greatest Trek is in pilot season where they are watching pilots of other 90s sci-fi shows and next Friday their episode will be "Midnight at the Firing Line" so I was rewatching it tonight, and God drat what a great pilot episode.

This irrationally annoys me because Midnight at the Firing Line wasn't the pilot, The Gathering was.

Pilot is not synonymous with first episode, god drat it!! :argh:

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl
"Everyone lies, Michael. The innocent lie because they don't want to be blamed for something they didn't do, and the guilty lie because they don't have any other choice. John Wick of Dogs lies because he's a terrible monster who doesn't care about the truth." :v:

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl

Jedit posted:

Midnight on the Firing Line is what is sometimes called a second pilot.

No it's not, because a pilot episode is not necessarily the first loving episode of a series, it's an episode that is produced prior to series production to convince executives to pick up the show. Midnight On The Firing Line wasn't even the first episode produced of the first season, Infection was the first episode produced!

:argh:

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl
To return to the BSG example, 33 was not a "second pilot"

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Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl
When did the worker caste get conceived/introduced? Pretty sure on at least one or two occasions early on the Minbari are described (and I'm pretty sure at least one of those is by Delenn) as being religious or warrior caste.

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