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Also I want to say, every time I see a Minbari cruiser floating around the station and I realize it's actually behind it, I'm still gobsmacked at how enormous those things are. Tip to tip they must be at least two or three miles, if B5 is five.
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Feb 12, 2017 05:08
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Baka-nin posted:Its been awhile since I watched In the Beginning, but wasn't the ship Sheriden blew up also using the same trick he ended up doing? I'm fairly certain I remember there was a smaller Minbari ship that pretended to be in trouble to lure earth ships out in the open, and then that great big battle cruiser jumped in to kill them all. I can't remember if it was B5, maybe In The Beginning, or if I'm conflating it with like the Clone Wars or something, but I seem to recall the Minbari shooting down escape pods too.
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Feb 26, 2017 02:31
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SlothfulCobra posted:For the longest time, I really resented the relative moral simplicity of the conflict with the shadows, especially in comparison to how complex the rest of the show was. The shadows really seemed like plain ol' bad guys ruining things for little reason other than that's what they do. I seem to recall in the commentaries, JMS says when the Shadows got their chance to talk with Sheridan and try to convince him of their point of view, he expected about a third of the fans to sympathize and agree with their philosophy, and he says that's about what he saw on the message boards. It's not that black and white, and while it was shortly before the end the Vorlons were openly revealed as also being wrong, they were always shrouded in mystery and hints of something sinister and unsympathetic. No ships entering their space ever return, and as far back as Kosh's self-revelation while rescuing Sheridan from free-fall, they were shown to have been outright manipulating the younger races for millennia, and even earlier Kosh's ship just summarily blows something up (I forget the details at the moment) and everyone's like  but what are we gonna do about it?
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Feb 27, 2017 19:57
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Bieeardo posted:His ship blew up the Dilgar war criminal and her immortality serum, before Earth forces could scoop 'em up. Shadows would have thought the kinks she built into that stuff were hilarious. Ohhh, yeah, that's right. That's way early in season 1 isn't it? Anyway I think, on reflection, a race of strong telepaths could be more unified in a way we can't fully comprehend. Maybe they're not quite hive minds but they're probably something like the Founders in DS9.
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Feb 27, 2017 20:07
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I believe the spoilered portion was going to happen either way, but the backup made in that episode would have been used to restore her as she followed what more or less became Lyta's arc.
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Feb 27, 2017 22:44
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We watched "The Illusion of Truth" in season 4 last night and my girls HATED it, as they ought. I got to talk with them about not just unreflectively trusting what you see on the news or the internet.
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Feb 28, 2017 18:39
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Panzeh posted:I know, but I didn't find it believable that the relationship would be anything more than professional. I don't know what to say other than I completely disagree. Her accent is a little tough sometimes but she's great with her eyes and facial expressions / body language.
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Mar 5, 2017 16:26
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We're nearing the end of season 4. The problem is, although he turns out to be evil, Edgars is right when he diagnoses the major problem with EarthGov: it's not Clark, it's PsiCorps. It's the deep state problem we have today with unelected bureaucrats holding much of the actual power, but can you imagine if the press, deep state, and the ostensible power holders were all unified?
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Mar 7, 2017 18:42
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Edgars is right, but the way he goes about fixing it is very much reminiscent of blaming every Jew for the action of some supposed elite banking cartel. Hence why I called him evil. Sheridan's use of the telepaths is questionable at best, but it's not out of character for him. He is changed after going to Z'Ha'Dum, and not all for the better. Garibaldi, even with his own problems, is also right, to a degree.
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Mar 7, 2017 19:46
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gourdcaptain posted:Yeah, if the show had treated Sheridan a bit more harshly on that I'd be fine, but Garabaldi's opposition is dismissed as mind control and Deconstruction of Falling Stars basically goes "Sheridan did nothing wrong and thinking so is wrong". It's probably my least favorite episode of B5. I think these are consequences of squishing the end of the Earth civil war arc into the end of season 4, some of the nuance and subtlety got lost. I mean when Franklin is talking with Lyta about it, and he's like, "but he's right, there's no other way," that's pretty blatantly a shortcut. Winifred Madgers fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 20:02
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I was thinking some today about Londo, and how he's more or less unique, at least in my experience, as an anti-villain. There are plenty of antiheroes, but the flip side of the coin is much less common. In fact I'm not sure I can think of any off the top of my head.
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Jun 10, 2017 05:35
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Hm, maybe. I'll have to think on that one; Ben is a great character, and my memory of Lost is faded a little now. He played his hand closer to his chest than Londo, but as I recall he started out like a villain and became more complex. I was thinking that Londo actually does have a conscience and knows he's making evil choices, and regrets it, but still does it because he either can't think of an alternative, or can't bring himself to back out because he's already gone too far. So I would say an antihero is someone like Riddick in Pitch Black, who isn't particularly a good person but ends up on the right side because he doesn't have much of a choice. Whereas I was thinking the reverse for an anti-villain. Londo isn't per se a bad person, but he does, and enables others to do, a lot of bad things, because even though he knows better he just keeps getting roped in even further. Thoughts?
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Jun 11, 2017 02:30
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:So I would say an antihero is someone like Riddick in Pitch Black, who isn't particularly a good person but ends up on the right side because he doesn't have much of a choice. Whereas I was thinking the reverse for an anti-villain. Londo isn't per se a bad person, but he does, and enables others to do, a lot of bad things, because even though he knows better he just keeps getting roped in even further. To continue a bit, as I recall, Ben in Lost always thinks he's doing the right thing ("we're the good guys"), whereas Londo knows he's done the wrong thing, knows he'll pay a heavy price for it, and knows he'll continue doing it anyway, despite the warnings of others and of his own conscience. Most of his villainy is an act he puts on because now he feels it's expected of him.
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Jun 11, 2017 04:24
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Grand Fromage posted:God drat how has B5 lost more of its cast than loving original Star Trek Lorien saved the show for season 5.
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Jun 18, 2017 03:56
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Measly Twerp posted:What? You need to watch the show again apparently. Lorien saved Sheridan's life at Z'ha'dum, but he could only give him enough life energy to last 20 more years. My joke was that he did the same for the show.
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Jun 18, 2017 05:10
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Tyrel Lohr posted:Every time I see this thread get bumped I always have a bad feeling because lately it's usually for the same reason. We got stalled after season 4 in our most recent watchthrough, otherwise I might still be posting random things I observed. But, yeah.
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Jun 18, 2017 14:04
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I'll go along with that, and that's why I think a good remaster will still help it despite the fact it'll reveal more flaws that wouldn't be seen in standard def. It already relies to a degree on your imagination filling in the blanks, as it were.
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Jun 27, 2017 05:04
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Panzeh posted:I thought it was a cool line but delenn's delivery was flat, much like her character overall. The rest of the line, yeah. But "Why not?" was so perfect when delivered somewhat flat. Like the Earth ships were just beneath her (as they indeed were), the same way you'd talk to a 10-year-old you caught trying to break into your car as he tries to order you not to call the cops, or else. Flat, disdainful, and slightly amused, because you're really going to enjoy the schadenfreude whether he backs down in shame, or earns some good old-fashioned comeuppance.
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Jun 29, 2017 23:03
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Neo Rasa posted:I also have to say, upon re-watch the first season is....not as rough as I was expecting it to be? This is what I've always said. It gets a bad rap on the internet, and it's finding its legs for sure, but even very early on it's got inklings of greatness, and by about the last quarter of the season it's really coming together. Early to mid season 2 is when the quality starts rocketing up as it fully hits its stride, but I wouldn't ever want to watch it without season 1.
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Jun 30, 2017 04:04
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Jedit posted:My copy of To Dream In The City of Sorrows is not to hand, but as I recall it's more that Marcus was super driven and angry because of guilt over his brother's death. He joins the Rangers to kick rear end and get revenge, not to skulk about, and that's always buried away behind the flippant veneer. This does come up in the show from time to time too.
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Jul 4, 2017 03:24
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For anyone lacking the DVDs and looking for a streaming option, I just found the complete series is available on Go90.
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Jul 6, 2017 16:30
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You know, we are making our way through DS9 as well, and we'd taken a break from B5 for quite a while. And I was starting to think the former was getting pretty decent, but then tonight we watched the beginning of season 5, including The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari. This show is just on a whole different level of good. I shouldn't be surprised by it anymore after watching through it probably a half dozen times, but I still am.
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Jul 8, 2017 04:08
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pentyne posted:Season 5 is a weird experience, because there is so much good going on but then you keep getting all the Byron stuff and it was clearly an attempt to force the desired Telepath War plot into the show but not really making it work because the figurehead character lacked any real charm or gravity to his acting. I didn't explicitly keep track last time through, but I'm planning on it this time: I don't even think Byron and the telepaths have more than a couple of episodes as the main focus, and not a lot of time spent on them outside of that. In episode 1 of season 5 it was maaaaybe ten minutes, and none in episode 2. That is, I think all the complaints are pretty overblown.
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Jul 9, 2017 02:27
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Neddy Seagoon posted:
I know it goes on until the halfway point, what I mean is it's not a constant presence.
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Jul 9, 2017 02:46
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the Telepath Community arc eats nearly half the season.
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It still casts a shadow over the entire first half of the season as the primary story arc. Once it gets put to bed the season makes a massive jump in quality. So you're saying early season 5 has Robert Atkin Downes Syndrome? 
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Jul 9, 2017 03:55
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Data Graham posted:Pivoting after O'Hare had to leave worked out pretty well. That may have been part of his contingency back door exit plans for each of the characters, should the actors leave.
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Jul 12, 2017 21:06
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mllaneza posted:It would have hit most of the same beats: war against the Shadows, Earth Civil War, the telepath thing, the Centauri get hosed over. Can't you hear Sinclair yelling "get out of my galaxy !" ? I'm imagining this in Michael O'Hare's voice, and 
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Jul 13, 2017 13:11
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Von_Doom posted:Still wish, in this golden age of television we find ourselves in, that someone would make a epic space opera as well done as B5. Yeah 5 years back there was no way... but in these days of GoT, Black Sails, Fargo, Breaking Bad, Preacher, Westworld? Yeah it could happen. I'd like to see it, but I'm not holding my breath. You could do all of the peripheral stuff, like the plot, space battles, etc. But I don't know that anyone could really capture what made B5 so great, which is even beyond the individual characters, as good as they are: there's an almost ineffable heart or spirit of the show that is truly its best quality.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:45
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Iron Crowned posted:I don't have cable? 
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Jul 13, 2017 18:58
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And there goes Byron. My wife and daughters really picked up on how creepy and manipulative he is despite saying a lot of the right things. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a long time since I watched it with commentaries, but I seem to recall JMS using his time spent in a cult to inform Byron's character and the rogue telepath colony.
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Aug 8, 2017 04:21
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Whoops, I hadn't considered that, although I should have.
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Aug 8, 2017 05:54
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Conversely we're about 6 episodes from the end. And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder has one of Sheridan's most lines. "THAT'S ENOUGH! Now we gave you a promise, and we are bound by that promise. And drat you for asking for it! And drat us for agreeing to it! And drat us all to hell, because that's where we're all going!" Season 5 gets real good again after the halfway point.
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Aug 28, 2017 03:25
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We just watched "Objects in Motion" as we've been putting off the end of this. I'll tell you this, I've been enjoying DS9, but coming back to B5 is like the first time you open the windows in springtime. I can't think of any other show that has a whole quarter of the last season as epilogue and denouement, but it is so good to have this.
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Oct 5, 2017 04:02
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I don't even know what that is, haha. And I suspect I wouldn't care if I did.
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Oct 5, 2017 04:29
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G'Kar and Kira would be good for a wholly different reason. And I'm trying to decide if Odo and Garibaldi would get along, or hate each other. But for my money, give me Quark and Morden.
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Oct 5, 2017 12:54
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Narsham posted:How about Bashir and Zathras? Or Dax and Ivanova? Bashir would just have an increasingly confused, then baffled, then dumbfounded look on his face the longer it went on.
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Oct 5, 2017 15:40
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Sisko and Sheridan would be natural allies, and unstoppable. I'm not sure about Lwaxana and Lady Morella though....
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Oct 5, 2017 16:31
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Bester would eat Chekov alive. Morn would fit right in on B5.
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Oct 6, 2017 03:59
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I was going to say Farscape, but that was something like 5 years later and then I remembered the Muppet technology and more advanced CGI by the time it debuted, so it's not that great a comparison. But in terms of the sets and costumes and stuff it's in the same ballpark. Also if you think the EarthGov stuff is only and suddenly applicable post 2016 then you have really not been paying attention. Winifred Madgers fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Oct 20, 2017 |
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Oct 20, 2017 04:00
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 03:25 |
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Oh yeah, Earth2. I totally forgot about that! I really, really tried to like it when it was airing.
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Oct 20, 2017 16:05
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