Babylon 5: Reboot and Zooty

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Babylon 5: Reboot and Zooty

Dirty: Apr 8, 2003; Ceci n'est pas un fabricant de pates

Unkempt posted:

I vaguely recall hearing they lost all the CGI models and whatnot so they'd have to make them all again from scratch. Shouldn't be too hard though and they probably would have had to do that anyway for HD.

I've heard that too. Whether true or not, I'm pretty drat sure they could find them if they wanted. All those artists who worked on it will have copies. It might take some assembling, and there's probably a bit of a legal grey area around people having those copies. And also, as you say, many just wouldn't hold up to HD.

But it would still be nice to get the original scene files and update the models, so that all the motion etc is identical.

I've considered redoing all the FX shots in an episode myself, but it's a big job with no real payoff. I doubt it would convince WB to do anything. Didn't stop me building most of a station, though!

# ¿ Aug 12, 2016 07:49

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 10:14

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Data Graham posted:

I mean one of the most obvious "product of its time" things is right in the cold open, the line that gets cut off. It's like:

"Tell them we're under attack! Tell them it's the�"

�and you can hear that big floppy em dash sitting there in the script because there's nothing written after it. There's a split second of pause before the scene cuts away, long enough to make the cutoff sound completely artificial, long enough that the actor might as well have sucked in a big old breath.

Ugh, this. Saw this in a lot of things over the years, and every time it bugged me. So easy to fix in editing, and that B5 example is among the worst. For me, the actual worst is in Star Trek TMP when Spock walks onto the bridge and Sulu has to be interrupted by Kirk while already saying the most unnatural sounding line in history:

Sulu: "Why! Why it's Mister-"

- pause
- everyone else turns to look
- a strange quiet falls upon the bridge
- people stare at Spock for hours
- V'Ger reaches Earth and destroys it
- the Federation collapses, mass panic and starvation
- civilisation falls
- after millions of years, the sun explodes
- the universe eventually contracts back into a single point
- another big bang happens
- planets and stars form
- humans evolve, the Federation is formed
- V'Ger is detected approaching Earth
- Spock walks onto the bridge

Kirk: "-Spock!"

Yes. What a spontaneous interruption.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2016 11:16

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Payndz posted:

I always thought that the difference was visible on screen. Foundation's space battles were more 'flowing', for want of a better word. NDI's battles tended to be "lots and lots of ships going to screen right shooting at lots and lots of ships going to screen left."

Totally agree - nearly all the memorable space battles are in the first 3 series. In the fourth series, they looked a little mushier. And instead of ships getting chunks blasted away, we had stock explosions placed over them, pretty much how TNG had to do it with physical models.

They did improve, though. No Surrender, No Retreat and Endgame were pretty cool, although right before Endgame, Between Darkness and the Light's battle against the shadow destroyers is pretty weightless.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2016 13:24

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Ron Thorton's ill

https://www.gofundme.com/2pbngrnc

We have him to think for all kinds of B5 CGI goodness.

# ¿ Sep 22, 2016 10:53

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Data Graham posted:

I was seeing a guy who worked on the visual effects, and he told me a few interesting stories about stuff.

Definitely not interested in hearing any of those. Nope. Not at all.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2016 16:54

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Parts Kit posted:

The actor who played Bob Kelso on Scrubs was also a badguy captain in the upcoming civil war episodes. Which unfortunately just makes me wish someone had made a B5/Bob Kelso quote mashup by now.

I think he's only in the one episode, unfortunately. Although I remember his delivery being a bit odd at times. For example, the way he says "Those are Sheridan's forces" sounds really awkward. To me at least.

Data Graham posted:

OTOH, the Zack/Lyta elevator scene in Thirdspace is just excruciating. I remember it being kinda funny and getting laughs from the crowd in the theater, but my god it does not hold up.

Yeah, I remember not liking it at the time. You could sort of tell how it was going to go as soon as they both stepped in. I remember thinking "this feels like filler", so was unsurprised to read years later that that's exactly what it was.

Data Graham posted:

Well�it has to do with certain easter eggs that might actually get someone in trouble if I elaborated here. I'll PM anyone interested.

If you're okay with it, I'm interested.

# ¿ Oct 18, 2016 08:59

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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

JMS thought they were going to be cancelled after Season 4, so he wrapped up the civil war arc early so the show could have some decent closure instead of ending on a cliffhanger ("Intersections in Real Time").

Also, as part of that decent closure the last episode of season 4 was filmed as proper final send-off. When they got picked up for a fifth season, that meant filming a new not-final-send-off episode for season 4, and moving the real send-off to the end of season 5. This all sounds much worse than it is, by the way, do not be alarmed.

# ¿ Oct 29, 2016 14:29

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Party Plane Jones posted:

Considering how primitive the visuals are I'm surprised they haven't just contracted it out to a college for graphics design/animation courses.

That really doesn't sound like a remaster we'd like.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2016 13:05

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Party Plane Jones posted:

You'd be surprised. This is by one guy (for the most part) and it's pretty decent looking.

https://vimeo.com/108650530

I'm not saying there aren't some incredibly talented people out there. I'm talking about needing a number of them, and enforcing a consistent look and style to avoid a bunch of differing interpretations.

I actually considered remaking the FX for one episode myself. Got well into building a B5 model. Problem is, while I knew I could probably make something better-looking than the original (thanks to 20 years of technology improvements) it probably wouldn't stand up to scrutiny by current standards, and in some ways actually be more jarring than the 90s FX we've got now. That's the kind of bar you're up against - it can't just be better, it has to be consistently good, or people will just prefer the originals.

# ¿ Nov 1, 2016 12:49

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Milky Moor posted:

Sleeping in Light might be the best finale in TV history.

A stone cold fact.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2016 14:11

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Completely missed this, but Ron Thornton is dead at 59: http://deadline.com/2016/11/ron-thornton-dead-vfx-babylon-5-star-trek-emmy-1201858946/

The CG on B5 is the reason I know how to texture, model and animate. It's hard to explain just how visually striking and exciting B5's FX were back in the 90s.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2016 15:10

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Data Graham posted:

One thing that Crusade is good for is illustrating how quickly the state of the art of CGI was changing at the time.

The visual style of the show itself couldn't really change from what it had been doing since 1994, so they were kind of locked into a certain look and feel, where ships and space battles that had looked incredible five years previously now looked plasticky and fake and could never coexist with organic out-of-doors shots or real actors, and even though they had technology that had come on by leaps and bounds, the best they could do with it was stuff like making the black smoke that shoots out of the shuttle as it takes off from the planet surface ("Patterns of the Soul") billow out realistically from the engines. It looked great, but it was only one of the few things that they could put into the show without it sticking out like a sore thumb against how everything else looked.

Gideon's hover-bike chase and the Homunculous were particular low points, but I think they'd have looked bad in any series around that time period - they were both overambitious. I get that the homunculous wasn't supposed to be photoreal, but I assume was also supposed to not look laughable.

quote:

We were only a couple of years away from stuff like this being on TV:

<snip>

I remember seeing that when it was new (particularly the telephoto camera shot nose-on on the reaver ship that I think was before the beginning of this clip) and thinking, holy hell, they can make TV nowadays that makes theatrical films of ten years ago look like trash.

This was from the Firefly film, though, 6 years later. But yeah, Firefly CG was mostly much better than B5s. I partly place the blame more on budget and time, (and the mid-B5change in FX houses) though. Some early B5 space battles look much better than the later stuff.

# ¿ Dec 14, 2016 11:41

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Milky Moor posted:

One of the peculiar things that stands out to me in B5 CGI is the Omega-class warship. In Season 3, they have this bright red docking bay - like B5 itself has. But in Season 2, 4 and 5, they don't. I always wonder about that.

I never noticed that, thought they were always lit red. My mind has been retconning.

Also, related, I guess we all know by now that the Omega is a substantial nod to 2010's Leonov?

# ¿ Dec 14, 2016 14:00

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mojo1701a posted:

There was a Reaver chase, but it was different. They tried to outrun a Reaver ship by flipping around and setting their exhaust on fire. Can't seem to find it on YouTube.

Ah yes. Crazy Ivan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3rX0T2XNxs

# ¿ Dec 16, 2016 11:37

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Neddy Seagoon posted:

That was because of Clark's Earth-first politics and issues with Raiders. B5 saw a lot of close calls in its first year of operation.

Also why the gently caress would you leave a quarter of a million people floating in space without basic defenses for raiders, debris or meteors? The original defense grid's point was to see off the local opportunistic Raiders and pop incoming missiles.

I remember reading, although I don't think this is mentioned in the series itself, that the station was unusually well-armed because of the fates of the previous 4. Still, it's kind of like the UN building sinking an aircraft carrier. But then maybe it could if it was in the middle of nowhere without much backup.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2017 11:06

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Neddy Seagoon posted:

Pretty much exactly that. All we know is they got bombed during construction, and given what you see when they deal with Babylon 4 it's not hard to wager who was behind the other attacks.

Wow.

This seems incredibly obvious and I feel dumb, but even after War Without End, I never thought to question the official line that it was terrorists. I believed FAKE NEWS. Sad!

# ¿ Feb 27, 2017 12:37

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Jedit posted:

That's a false observation, I think. B5 was made very much in the movie mindset, being framed for 16:9 despite 4:3 being the industry standard and the transmission format.

Not sure if this is fully accurate - watching it in 16:9, it's actually more framed for 4:3, as everyone sort of huddles up in the middle of the shot, leaving space around the edges. It was shot for 4:3, basically.

quote:

If it looks like proscenium arch, that's probably an artefact of the station design: lots of small rooms and narrow corridors.

Not sure I agree with this either - mostly yes, but some sets really needed to be bigger. The station is 5 miles long and run from a room the size of my flat. The council chamber felt like a classroom. I don't think the station design drove those decisions.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2017 10:25

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Jedit posted:

Dude, the entire United States can be run from a room 50' x 110'.

Well, I don't want to get into comparing what type of thing can be run from what size of room, that could go on all day. I just mean that for a show that spends so much time telling us how big the station is, C&C and the council chambers sure do make it feel small, and I think that was due to limited studio space rather than trying to reflect the station design, which I think is what you were getting at.

quote:

Iron Crowned has expressed more clearly what I was saying. Most 4:3 television would be filmed on 16:9 stock, but the portions outside the 4:3 frame would include rigging, crew etc. because they were never meant to be seen. Everything of major importance in a B5 shot is in the central frame, but unlike other shows they protected the full 16:9 frame.

Yeah, I know, but that's quite a bit different from a "movie mindset", which is what I was responding to.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2017 14:49

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Narsham posted:

A James Callis/Baltar type would have been just about right. A shame Jeffrey Combs/Harriman Gray wouldn't have served the story, because he could probably have pulled it off. Honestly, the best casting would probably have been Ed Wasser if he hadn't already played another very important character in the series.

He could do it in his other B5 role, super important CnC tech Guerra: http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/Guerra

# ¿ Jul 10, 2017 20:28

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hope and vaseline posted:

http://epguides.com/Babylon5/

It's really weird. Season 1 up to late Season 2 (Confessions and Lamentations) ran almost uninterrupted with a few 1/2-month breaks. This continues to War Without End, until Intersections in Real Time and a big break after Deconstruction when they switched networks.

Yeah, I remember at the time the networks, from Season 2 onward, decided to keep the last 4-5 episodes of the season, and run them as a lead-in into the new season. Apparently it was to give them a "head start" over other networks, I guess with airing new episodes before everyone else starts. I don't really get American TV, but that's how I understood it at the time.

Which meant the final 4 episodes of Season 2 actually got their world premier in the UK. I think the same was true of Seasons 3 and 4, but I'm not 100% sure I remember right. With Season 5, what with it being the ending, I suppose, they weren't allowed to do that. So in the UK season 5 ended with "Movements of Fire and Shadow" I think, and then after a long break the final 5 were aired on Sunday morning as part of some kids morning show that was on at the time. I remember the mildly bewildered looks of the presenters as each episode ended (presumably having seen the final minute or two), and them giving an generic "wow, how exciting, more from Babylon 5 next week" comment.

Since season 5 had finally started to ramp up, it kind of killed it a bit for me having that long break and then randomly emerging in the middle of some other show like that. "Sleeping in Light" was still amazing, though.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2017 11:45

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Jedit posted:

Channel 4 were always as supportive as they could be of B5, airing it in a prime slot and treating it the way most networks would treat Trek.

Indeed, it got relatively good treatment from Channel 4, and to their credit they did air the whole drat thing. Without Channel 4, I suspect we'd never have seen it in the UK.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2017 14:39

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Party Plane Jones posted:

No, I meant that specific line/scene, not the whole plot line.

Yeah, I remember seeing that in flashback and thinking "I don't remember that". Months later, Channel 4 aired The Gathering and I finally understood it. Although to be honest, it wasn't that confusing anyway, since the flashback was reinforcing what Sinclair was remembering at that point anyway, and I never thought about it again until I saw The Gathering.

But I didn't feel any wiser for watching it. And, in fact, it sort of broke the Vorlons a little bit for me. Suddenly big mysterious and powerful Kosh can be poisoned like a regular person.

So yeah, I'd say you could happily never ever watch it.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2017 18:50

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I would 100% skip The Gathering. It gets a 2-second callback later on, and actually makes the Vorlons a bit less mysterious, and a bit more petulant. That's about it.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2017 13:45

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Platonicsolid posted:

The Gathering is most interesting to me as a production artifact. Once you're a fan, take a look to see how all the pieces started to get assembled.

Yup, that's true, and I'm glad I saw it for that reason. I'm also really glad I started at S1E1 all those years ago and not The Gathering.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2017 14:18

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Feels Villeneuve posted:

The Gathering is very very bad and half the characters get replaced by different actors without explanation. You don't need to watch it.

Plus, ever since the puppets got edited out, what's the point, right?

"And here's brown sector, where all our most zany aliens live"

-cut-

"And that was brown sector. Neat, right?"

# ¿ Sep 19, 2017 16:09

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Milky Moor posted:

Why would Kosh have to have been poisoned through the suit when we plainly see him extending a limb? How is it a plot hole? We've seen plenty of times that Kosh can open up his encounter suit to no ill-effect, because the encounter suit is a disguise and not actually a life-support mechanism.

I'm not sure "plot hole" is the right term, but it's certainly inconsistent/strange. Throughout the series, Vorlons fiercely hide their identity until the time is right. It's a big point that no one has ever seen a Vorlon. Then Kosh sees Sinclair and goes in for a human-style handshake? I get that Sinclair is going to be important, but you don't see Kosh ever trying this again. Sinclair visits him plenty of times in his quarters, and Kosh is always in his suit, except for that time when he's a ball of light behind a screen, and makes a point of whizzing into his suit when Sinclair isn't looking.

Yes, in The Gathering Kosh could easily have been literally shaking Sinclair's hand, but it's a familiar and very human gesture for a species that builds an identity around being aloof, indirect and guarded. Kosh simply isn't the handshaking type, except for this one time when the plot requires it. So either they aren't shaking hands, in which case what actually is happening, or they are shaking hands and it's totally out of character. Considering that the Vorlons seem generally out of character in The Gathering, I'm assuming the latter. It's a pilot. It happens.

Also worth noting that they actually added in the line where's Kosh is all like "yo, Valen" when he goes for a handshake for the special edition, presumably to justify this familiarity and try make it seem less out of character. That in itself is pretty odd, as well as a big spoiler. Also it makes Kosh seem like he doesn't understand what's going on. Lucky Sinclair wasn't like "Wait... I'm Valen?? Holy crap, this changes everything..."

# ¿ Sep 20, 2017 09:51

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Milky Moor posted:

Kosh being deliberately enigmatic on numerous occasions (rushing into his suit, basically laughing about the Feeder, giving Sinclair the cold shoulder by shutting down his suit at one point) isn't really an argument against Kosh recognising Valen.

No, it's an argument that the handshake in The Gathering is inconsistent with all his other behaviour. You've said that Kosh is "deliberately enigmatic on numerous occasions" - I think that's an understatement. His whole deal is being enigmatic. Except for the handshake. And he's so enigmatic after The Gathering that he never seems to want to get that handshake with the revered Valen. So is it normal for Kosh to want to handshake Valen or not? Yes in The Gathering, no in the rest of the series. That's why I think there's inconsistency.

quote:

Arguing that Kosh wouldn't handshake is weird, particularly in any context involving the actual messiah figure Valen. As mentioned, even the Vorlon government knew that something was going to happen between Kosh and Sinclair that required absolute secrecy -- maybe something identity related (why request the cameras be turned off otherwise?)

Indeed - so in The Gathering, they were expecting them to shake hands or something, yes. I'm not arguing that it did or didn't happen. I'm arguing that it feels inconsistent with Vorlon behaviour.

quote:

This one time 'when the plot requires it' is an incredibly weird 'one time'. It isn't like Kosh was getting his mail.

Vorlons have never shown an interest in handshakes or normal human-style social interaction anywhere outside of this scene. Even with Valen/Sinclair in all the other times they are alone together. This is the only time. A Vorlon gets poisoned while doing the one thing they're never otherwise depicted to do - unless you're saying that Vorlons routinely give chummy handshakes offscreen. If your argument is that Kosh would always want to handshake Valen and only Valen, that kind of implies that the Minbari agent knew Kosh was going to do that. Which raises some questions.

quote:

You are overthinking this and imagining possible problems instead of engaging with the text as-is.

For example, why do you assume Sinclair would have any idea what Kosh meant, or even interpret it as anything other than a greeting? It's a big leap to assume that he, Sinclair, is also Valen. How could Sinclair possibly figure it out? For all he knows, it's a weird Vorlon ritual.

There's a big thread running through B5, albeit one that gets dropped and picked up seemingly at random, that the Vorlons knew exactly what was going on. For example, an earlier version of Severed Dreams had the Vorlons riding in to protect B5 instead of the Minbari.

But if you want to argue the evolving production side of things, that's a whole different conversation. In that case, Gathering-Sinclair isn't Valen at all. But also, JMS has said that the Valen remark is Kosh's internal thoughts, so...

Yes, I was being facetious here - what Kosh says isn't really important to the discussion, I just think it's funny that Kosh apparently seems to be going "Oh hey, Valen!" to Sinclair's face. And every other Vorlon watching through his eyes is spacepalming, or hissing "not yet, idiot!"

# ¿ Sep 20, 2017 11:12

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Milky Moor posted:

I had a job interview at a school. I introduced myself with a handshake to the man doing my interview. When I came to start my first day, I didn't handshake him again. Is my behavior inconsistent?

Well that depends. Was the man doing an interview actually not really him, but an agent from a different school trying to kill you. Once everything had been sorted out, on your first real meeting, did you then go for that handshake, or politely refuse because you'd already shook hands with someone who looked like him?

Do you also engage in other social norms with this person? The handshake is strange because it sits totally in isolation. There's a whole level of interaction missing there that makes the handshake... well... inconsistent. Kosh never otherwise has any interactions with Sinclair that fit in with starting your relationship with a warm handshake.

quote:

But there's a difference between feeling something is inconsistent and something actually being inconsistent.

Well... ugh. There's also a difference between feeling something is consistent and it actually being consistent.

As I've said, this is where I sit:

Neddy Seagoon posted:

... the real takeaway from it is "it's the series pilot and things changed". Especially when it aired a full year before the series got underway.

I'm cool with this. The handshake isn't the only inconsistency in the pilot, and the real explanation for them is this. I've never tried to rationalise the handshake or any of the other stuff, they're just products of the process, inconsistencies and all. It doesn't all need to fit, or be made to fit.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2017 11:48

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Clouseau posted:

I've never bought the Kosh "Valen" line as a spoiler- considering that at the time it's just a nonsense sci-fi word in a pilot uttered by a mysterious source. I watched that version of The Gathering and wasn't later let down during the Valen reveal. It more feels like a rewatch easter egg.

Yes, true. They say "Valen" a lot, but not that much. And I think Kosh says "Entil'Zah Valen" or something, so yeah it's even muddier. Kosh just saying "hi" in Vorlonese, you wouldn't really know where those words start and end.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2017 11:50

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Jedit posted:

Other B5-era SF TV: Robocop, VR.5.

I remember the mid-90s seeming like there was suddenly a flood of SFTV stuff. I tried to watch it all, since up to that point I'd had: Buck Rogers in the 25th Century, Star Trek: TNG, and pretty much nothing else. And suddenly there was sci-fi everywhere and it all seemed new and interesting. I basically watched all of everything, even the bad stuff (which was almost all of it). A few other B5-era shows I remember:

-Earth 2 - which was super dull.
-Space Precinct - Gerry Anderson's last live-action TV series, simultaneously gritty, over-lit and silly (not in a good way). It did that thing some shows used to do where they put the lead actor's name before the title, so every episode started with "TED SHACKLEFORD", who I'm sure must have been well known in America.
-Dark Skies - some kind of UFO conspiracy thing set in the 60s, trading off the X Files popularity.
-Earth: Final Conflict - I have a lot of affection for EFC, but it's terrible.
-Andromeda - I also have a lot of affection for Andromeda, but it's also terrible.
-Team Knight Rider - ugh.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2017 15:54

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hope and vaseline posted:

The first season was passable near-future sci-fi, with basically Roddenberry's treatment of the Vulcan's first contact with earth. Then it went... so far off the rails after that. But I still kept watching to the very strange end.

I don't think I made it to the end, but if it ever shows up on Netflix, you can bet I'll be background-marathoning it.

ConfusedUs posted:

I remember growing bored of the series later in its life. It may well have been a dropoff in quality between S1 and S2. I don't remember enough details to say.

But then Michael Ironside showed up. Everything is better with Michael Ironside. I'm ignoring the fact it was cancelled about 10 episodes later.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2017 16:37

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ConfusedUs posted:

What you're saying is that I should rewatch SeaQuest, right?

Well, now I'm thinking of rewatching it, so definitely.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2017 16:53

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turn left hillary!! noo posted:

We watched A Call to Arms last night and, other than the music and being a pilot episode, it was way better than I thought I remembered. Turns out I hardly remembered it at all. It's totally decent and I like Galen a lot. I remember liking him in Crusade too, but I don't remember much else about it.

My main memory of A Call To Arms is Galen talking to Sheridan in a dream-based hellscape. The converse at a fairly normal level, and the Galen ends the conversation by remembering to bring the ham and abruptly bellowing "REMEMBAH... WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN", ironically making that the most memorable part of the conversation.

Oh and also how much I dislike the design of the Excalibur.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2017 11:17

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Milky Moor posted:

I don't remember ACTA at all, really, but my brain is wondering if you're referring to The Lost Tales with a similar exchange that I swear ends with a similar line from Galen.

I'd completely forgotten that Galen does almost the exact same thing in TLT, but I'm pretty sure it's ACTA. They're on some flaming, ruined planet after a test of the planet-killer that's headed to Earth.

quote:

It's ugly as sin. It doesn't look anything like what I'd expect some kind of ISA ship to look like, particularly one which was a joint EA/Minbari design.

There are elements that I like. But it manages to be both enormous and barely-there. Long shots make it look like a fighter and close shots make it look like a skyscraper next to a train. It's big, spindly and almost invisible in all but the mid-point of a flyby. I really think all it needed was for the enormous wings to just be about 60% shorter. It would look meaner, the wings would complement the body and you wouldn't have to pull the camera back half a mile to get most of the thing in frame.

quote:

The Warlock-class from that time period is ugly, too.

I kind of liked the Warlock class. It wasn't pretty, but it looked like a step along the tech tree, keeping EAs "armoured wedge" feel minus the rotating section that I assume became unnecessary. It certainly didn't make me wince like the Excalibur does.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2017 16:43

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Polaron posted:

The rotating section was still there, it was just repurposed into missile batteries.

Which is a very EA thing to do, since I seem to recall that in the background stuff Earth's big Thing was supposed to be being really good at building nuclear missiles and being willing to build fucktons of them.

Are you sure? It doesn't look anything like a rotating section, and I don't think it rotates on-screen.

I like that the missiles seem to have flat noses. No need for a nosecone in space, I guess.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2017 12:27

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Well, it's almost a new year, and you know what that means - time for a new opening monologue.

And we all need to film new character cards. What do we think, rotating-on-a-plinth style like G'Kar?

# ¿ Dec 31, 2017 20:30

Dirty: Apr 8, 2003; Ceci n'est pas un fabricant de pates

Flatscan posted:

Really? Because I remember watching it on Channel 4 and then not watching the series proper because it was so bad. It wasn't until I randomly caught an episode from the beginning of Season 3 and really enjoyed it that I went back and watched the rest.

Yeah, I remember seeing season 1, then seeing The Gathering show up and being excited that there was more B5 to watch, before gradually realising I was watching a pilot. And it explaining the "There is a hole in your mind" clip they use in season 1.

Was also glad it hadn't been the first thing I'd seen. I mean, "Midnight on the Firing Line" wasn't exactly great, but it showcased a lot of the aspects of the series that really set it apart - interstellar politics, what the station was really for, and the fact that the characters will occasionally go "gently caress it" and strap into a star fury with the express aim of making things explode. Refreshingly anti-Star Trek.

Whereas the pilot just felt like your standard "wrongly accused main character" plot, and never really got exciting.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2018 11:39

Dirty: Apr 8, 2003; Ceci n'est pas un fabricant de pates

Eyud posted:

I went to see if he had posted anything about it on Usenet back then and came across this instead which gave me a good chuckle.

It's great when writers superimpose the reaction to their work onto the work of writers who have practically become legendary. They seem to not understand that they're basically saying "well, this world-renowned writer managed to craft his work in such a way as to avoid those criticisms, whereas I did not".

# ¿ Apr 12, 2018 10:31

Dirty: Apr 8, 2003; Ceci n'est pas un fabricant de pates

Just in case there was any doubt...
https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/987205484850524160

# ¿ Apr 23, 2018 14:01

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 10:14

Dirty: Apr 8, 2003; Ceci n'est pas un fabricant de pates

Milky Moor posted:

I think he's said it was the former. He had this vision in his head that didn't translate at all.

The number of bosses I've worked for who will insist that all their ideas are good and that the ones that turn out bad are solely due to the execution and not because the idea was bad.

# ¿ May 4, 2018 09:17

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Babylon 5: Reboot and Zooty

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