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Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem

evilweasel posted:

I may be missing something real obvious, but what's the difference between blue elemental blast (ten cents) and hydroblast ($5) for these decks? The decks all suggest hydroblast but that seems silly unless there's something I'm missing. Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast seem to be about the same price.

Red blast/Blue blast were only printed at uncommon on mtgo, so they aren't actually legal in mtgo pauper.

That fact is actually the entire reason for the price difference - blue blast is essentially just unplayable in general. Pyro/red blast have closer prices because they also see Legacy play.

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little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010

evilweasel posted:

I may be missing something real obvious, but what's the difference between blue elemental blast (ten cents) and hydroblast ($5) for these decks? The decks all suggest hydroblast but that seems silly unless there's something I'm missing. Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast seem to be about the same price.

Hydroblast can be cast on a non-red card, and BEB can't. There's a few narrow cases (storm count, killing phantasmal image/bear) where that would be relevant. For pauper purposes the difference probably isn't worth the 5$. Never mind that last part.

lazerwolf
Dec 22, 2009

Orange and Black

evilweasel posted:

I may be missing something real obvious, but what's the difference between blue elemental blast (ten cents) and hydroblast ($5) for these decks? The decks all suggest hydroblast but that seems silly unless there's something I'm missing. Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast seem to be about the same price.

Not sure why the big price gap but the cards have slightly different mechanics. You can target any spell/permanent with Hydroblast it will fizzle unless the spell/permanent is blue but you can still cast it. BEB can only be cast if there's a legal blue spell/permanent. Pyroblast and REB should function the same way.

Anniversary
Sep 12, 2011

I AM A SHIT-FESTIVAL
:goatsecx:
So I recently realized I have an MTGO account from years ago and am looking to get into Pauper.

Whats a good deck that's: 1) good for grinding 2) forgiving of someone still learning the interface 3) cheap?

General pauper / MTGO advice is also appreciated.

PJOmega
May 5, 2009

Anniversary posted:

So I recently realized I have an MTGO account from years ago and am looking to get into Pauper.

Whats a good deck that's: 1) good for grinding 2) forgiving of someone still learning the interface 3) cheap?

General pauper / MTGO advice is also appreciated.

Burn. It's _the_ civic of Pauper street races.

suicidesteve
Jan 4, 2006

"Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.


For an answer that actually fits your first requirement and also requires :ohdear: interaction :ohdear: try Grixis Metalcraft.

My list, more or less, is here.

Anniversary
Sep 12, 2011

I AM A SHIT-FESTIVAL
:goatsecx:

PJOmega posted:

Burn. It's _the_ civic of Pauper street races.

Oh. Oh no. I am not a burn player.

suicidesteve posted:

For an answer that actually fits your first requirement and also requires :ohdear: interaction :ohdear: try Grixis Metalcraft.

My list, more or less, is here.

Oh thank goodness.

I have another list I found elsewhere that runs Kuldotha Rebirth - what're your thoughts on that?

Anniversary fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Dec 13, 2016

suicidesteve
Jan 4, 2006

"Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.


Anniversary posted:

Oh. Oh no. I am not a burn player.


Oh thank goodness.

I have another list I found elsewhere that runs Kuldotha Rebirth - what're your thoughts on that?

I never liked that card in any deck, but I really don't like it in this one. If you're a glorified burn deck like UWR then sure, getting in a few damage with some random idiots is fine. But this deck usually plays out more like a control deck. It's especially bad considering all the artifacts are pretty important. Late in the game sure, throwing away an extra land is fine but by then the 3 1/1s are pretty irrelevant anyway.

PJOmega
May 5, 2009

Anniversary posted:

Oh. Oh no. I am not a burn player.


No worries. I'd steer you more towards Boros Metalcraft over Grixis, but both are reasonable interactive decks.

I misunderstood your request for a grindy deck, thought you meant for grinding points, not individual games!

PJOmega
May 5, 2009
Oh, and Kuldotha Rebirth is almost exclusively played in decks that run Ichor Wellspring. And KR is played less now that Angelic Purge is an option.

Anniversary
Sep 12, 2011

I AM A SHIT-FESTIVAL
:goatsecx:

PJOmega posted:

No worries. I'd steer you more towards Boros Metalcraft over Grixis, but both are reasonable interactive decks.

I misunderstood your request for a grindy deck, thought you meant for grinding points, not individual games!

Oh yeah, I just meant something to get games in with for getting exposure to the meta and the mtgo client (because last time I tried it I couldn't stand it and want to give it another shake.)

The list I was looking at used Ichor Wellspring and I think Kuldotha Rebirth was there for that primarily.

I'll look into Boros Metalcraft as well.

Thanks to both of you, if you know of any good lists I'd appreciate posting them (I've tracked down a fair few, but are unsure of their quality.)

suicidesteve
Jan 4, 2006

"Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.


I've got a bunch of lists along with the one I posted. Also feel free to add me: just add 44 to the end of my name.

Anniversary
Sep 12, 2011

I AM A SHIT-FESTIVAL
:goatsecx:

suicidesteve posted:

I've got a bunch of lists along with the one I posted. Also feel free to add me: just add 44 to the end of my name.

I just added you as a buddy. I'll check those lists out.

lazerwolf
Dec 22, 2009

Orange and Black

PJOmega posted:

Oh, and Kuldotha Rebirth is almost exclusively played in decks that run Ichor Wellspring. And KR is played less now that Angelic Purge is an option.

I'd rather run angelic purge and perilous research over Kuldotha Rebirth

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥

suicidesteve posted:

I never liked that card in any deck, but I really don't like it in this one. If you're a glorified burn deck like UWR then sure, getting in a few damage with some random idiots is fine. But this deck usually plays out more like a control deck. It's especially bad considering all the artifacts are pretty important. Late in the game sure, throwing away an extra land is fine but by then the 3 1/1s are pretty irrelevant anyway.

Making three 1/1s for one mana is a really good rate, and it offers a lot of utility. Sure, sometimes you just swing three idiots into two blockers to get in one point of damage, but more often you're using them to clog up the ground so you can win the game with flyers in two turns or totally poop on Chainer's Edict.

Of course, it's more a card that Jeskai gets to get away with because it runs 8 cantrip rocks as part of its engine, so having a spare artifact around doesn't require any additional deckbuilding costs. If you actually need all your artifacts then yeah, that's probably not the card for the deck.

Voyager I fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Dec 14, 2016

PJOmega
May 5, 2009

lazerwolf posted:

I'd rather run angelic purge and perilous research over Kuldotha Rebirth

Yeah, I run 3 Angelic Purges/ 2 Kuldotha Rebirth in Boros. I want to run WUR (Jeskai? I was out during the clans thing) but if I put in Mulldrifters I feel wrong if I'm not running Cloudshift and Momentary Blink.

Then I run more positive EtB effects.

What I'm saying is i miss Astral Slide.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥
3 purges seems like a lot just in terms of mana cost. Having one in the maindeck as a flexible hard answer feels good, and I could probably be talked into two of them, but there's only so many three mana spells you want to be casting in a deck that's already trying to cast two mana bricks as many times as possible. Running two Rebirths in addition that seems like you're taxing your artifact base pretty hard, too.

lazerwolf
Dec 22, 2009

Orange and Black
This is the list of Kuldotha Jeskai I've been running
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/440101#paper

Hellsau
Jan 14, 2010

NEVER FUCKING TAKE A NIGHT OFF CLAN WARS.
PSA: Don't play Elves:



Hilarious when you face a removal-less creature deck, terrible when you face a deck with Bolts, and I've never been flooded more than with this stupid 13 land deck. This is the second League I've tried to play Elves and more games than not I've drawn 6+ lands. You can still win with that many lands because Timberwatch Elf is a messed up magic card, but still, there's a reason this deck doesn't play that many lands.

suicidesteve
Jan 4, 2006

"Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.


Elves in a nutshell: one of your 2 creatures that actually matter die and then your second one dies and then you lose.

suicidesteve
Jan 4, 2006

"Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.


Unironically ban half the cards in Delver. The fact that that deck exists is so stupid.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥

suicidesteve posted:

Elves in a nutshell: one of your 2 creatures that actually matter die and then your second one dies and then you lose.

Then everyone brings in three board wipes for game 2.

suicidesteve
Jan 4, 2006

"Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.


Has Tortured Existence ever just not had it on turn 1? I've literally never seen it happen. Which is really annoying when your deck is exactly one card and otherwise does nothing.

Edit: So obviously the 2nd game of this match my opponent doesn't have it. Until they draw it on turn 3.

suicidesteve fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Dec 22, 2016

PJOmega
May 5, 2009

suicidesteve posted:

Has Tortured Existence ever just not had it on turn 1? I've literally never seen it happen. Which is really annoying when your deck is exactly one card and otherwise does nothing.

Edit: So obviously the 2nd game of this match my opponent doesn't have it. Until they draw it on turn 3.

Yes. In fact playing it Turn 1 is often not a good idea. Not that it matters since the deck is bad.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥

suicidesteve posted:

Has Tortured Existence ever just not had it on turn 1? I've literally never seen it happen. Which is really annoying when your deck is exactly one card and otherwise does nothing.

Edit: So obviously the 2nd game of this match my opponent doesn't have it. Until they draw it on turn 3.

Good thing the deck somehow loses G1 versus most of the format even when everything goes to plan and then completely hosed by like, a singleton hate card in the sideboard since the game will go to 45 cards.

suicidesteve
Jan 4, 2006

"Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.


Voyager I posted:

Good thing the deck somehow loses G1 versus most of the format even when everything goes to plan and then completely hosed by like, a singleton hate card in the sideboard since the game will go to 45 cards.

Well yeah. I didn't say I ever lost to it. But man it would be nice to just always have your 4-of that makes your deck function.

Hellsau
Jan 14, 2010

NEVER FUCKING TAKE A NIGHT OFF CLAN WARS.
Finally settled on a deck - Flicker Rats is back, baby! Wall of text incoming.



http://pastebin.com/ufWULJD5

There's a lot of other people playing a stock list. The stock list is bad. People are just netdecking the first version to 5-0 without thinking about the card choices. Reasons it is bad:
  • Cycle lands suck. Tapped lands in general are crap - the gain lands are fine because they allow you to play Counterspell and Chittering Rats while also allowing you to win against Burn, and the bouncelands are great because the deck is mana hungry up until you have five to eight mana, depending on your hand, so a double land really helps. Cycle lands don't give you either of those options, and tapped lands are a significant cost when you're trying to cast a bunch of durdly creatures.
  • Brainstorm plus Ash Barrens is the real deal. There's a hell of a lot of value to be gained shuffling Doom Blades away against MBC, or shuffling graveyard-based cards away if your opponent is dumb enough to play Relic of Progenitus. Even if you play a different cantrip over Brainstorm, Ash Barrens helps shuffle away bad card with Ponder, and is actually reasonable mana fixing by itself.
  • 1 Unearth? 1 Reaping the Graves? No Teachings to find Flicker/Reaping? Come on.
  • Dead Weight in the graveyard instead of Disfigure is going to feel really bad when you have five mana, facing a flipped Delver or a Ninja, and have an Archaeomancer in hand.
  • Radiant Fountain in a deck with heavy color requirements is just greedy nonsense.
  • Sideboard: Nausea is extremely mediocre - the decks it crushes are bringing in Spidersilk Armor or Veteran Armorer/Lumithread Field to counteract it, and if you switch those with Crypt Rats you also get to bring them in against Kuldotha without just having a dead card against a mess of white value creatures.
  • Relic of Progenitus is not useful unless, somehow, there's a bunch of Tortured Existence or Reanimator that I haven't come across. It's still "Discard a card, pay 1 mana per turn: Slightly inconvenience your opponent if they draw one of three cards" which is not worth anything.
  • Stormbound Geist is crap in all your bad matchups, and even against Delver if you're hoping your three mana creature doesn't get countered or bounced, you're going to lose. Also it doesn't block Ninja even against Delver. It isn't like this deck cares about Edicts, it's playing a million 2-for-1 creatures!

So, there's some problems with that list. My changes:

  • Brainstorm over Preordain is the biggest change. To support it, I've switched to an Ash Barrens-based mana base. It's been adequate. I've had to mulligan one landers where the only land is Ash Barrens - with or without Preordain/Brainstorm, you probably shouldn't be keeping one land hands anyway. This deck has plenty of ways to dig itself out of a card disadvantage hole, it really can't win if it just misses its third land drop twice. Brainstorm is adequate with Sea Gate Oracle, since it lets you bottom the worst card in your hand, which is frequently the only actual bad card in your hand because the deck is full of good cards.
  • To supplement the Brainstorms, I've got two Mystical Teachings as additional shuffle effects. I've rejiggered the spells to for that - one Flicker is enough, one Reaping is enough, a Snuff Out does things that nothing else will, and having a Diabolic Edict to search up helps against Bogles or Angler. Recoil is still bananas against bouncelands turn 3, and Recoiling a Journey to Nowhere or Oubliette that's eaten a Mulldrifter is just dirty.
  • Crypt Rats is not optional. It turns White Weenie, Bogles, Elves, and all the other crappy weenie decks into cakewalks. You also can keep it in against other decks full of X/2s to clear them out so your Edicts can get stuff done - I'll have 3-4 Crypt Rats in against Tron, for instance, to wipe their Oracles and Mulldrifters so I can Edict their Marauders and Crushers, and it's also really good against the versions that play Maul Splicer. Against Kuldotha Boros, apparently the meta has decided that playing extremely aggressively with Rebirth and Battle Screeches is a good idea, and being able to turn 4 Crypt Rats the opponents board away is great, and later you can use Crypt Rats to remove all the opponents white value creatures without expending a large number of cards. I was running one Crypt Rats in the main, but swapped an Edict out for a second one maindeck
  • Sideboard: More Mancers for the grindy matchups, the rest of the Edicts/Crypt Rats as needed, a few Choking Sands for Tron, the full set of Hydroblasts because Burn/Goblins, and 3 Dispels for the blue decks and Burn.

Note, I've played against zero Affinity decks in my previous 40 matches with this deck, which is concerning. In theory, a bunch of Edicts and counters should fare reasonably well against the normal Affinity draws while losing to the four 4/4s on turn 3 or triple-Thoughtcast draws, and the Hydroblasts help stop Atog shenanigans post-board, but I just haven't faced it yet.

Matches:

MBC - Easy matchup. Play lots of 2-for-1 creatures, grind your opponent out, eventually Reaping back four creatures and win the game. Brainstorm really gives its all this match, since you have a bunch of do-nothings sometimes. Kill/counter their creatures even if you think they have Unearth - there's no reason to let them develop for the times they don't. If you think they have Okiba-Gang Shinobi, you need to keep in Disfigure, and you should more aggressively use removal. All you want to do is trade off, play better creatures than them, and then win through card advantage. Some people play artifact lands specifically to deal with Wrench Mind, but I've run out of basics in my library before for Barrens, and if you discard two cards, you'll just make those cards back after playing some Oracles and Mulldrifters. If your MBC opponent plays a Relic, don't panic - if they keep it in play, they're effectively down a card, and you can use Brainstorms to shuffle graveyard cards away. If they keep mana up, they're also down mana and it should be easy enough to play your creatures without falling behind or leaving yourself open to shenanigans. If they tap out, you can play a spell and then Mancer it back immediately, and then their Relic basically only weakens Reaping (until they're forced to sacrifice their Relic to draw some removal and then you just get them with the Reaping you've been sandbagging.) If you go to game 3 and you know they're going to just keep the Relic in play forever, take out the Reaping for the fourth Crypt Rats. Mancer is still fine.
Sideboard: -2 Doom Blade, -1 Snuff Out ||| +2 Archaeomancer, +1 Crypt Rats

Elves - Easy. Kill Timberwatch and Huntmaster (or Vanguard when it gets big), kill Priest if you can't counter Distant Melody, and then just win because the opponent's deck doesn't do anything anymore. Crypt Rats is unbeatable for the opponents - they'll bring in Spidersilk Armor to stop Nausea/Wail of the Nim, and you can just play a turn 3 Crypt Rats and tell them to go to hell.
Sideboard: -1 Reaping, -1 Recoil ||| +2 Crypt Rats. Add more Mancers and Edicts if you want, I'd rather just have more 2/2s.

White Weenie - Don't walk into a Rally the Peasants, kill all the opponents stuff, aggressively trade your creatures away, etc. It's like Elves except with less good cards and no Distant Melody. Crypt Rats is nuts here, and Recoil makes a mockery of Journey to Nowhere. If they're not on the Tokens build, you can bring in more Edicts and take out some of the nonsense.
Sideboard: -1 Reaping, -1 Diabolic Edict ||| +2 Crypt Rats

Bogles - Crypt Rats away their X/1s, Edict their Voltron. Assuming their deck doesn't just fart itself out. Bogles is a terrible deck. Post-board, leave in enough removal for Aura Gnarlid. If you're feeling saucy, you can bring in Choking Sands to get them if they put a bunch of enchantments on a Forest - same thing works with Recoil. Remember that a 17/17 isn't actually a threat if it doesn't have trample, you can just block it with Oracle and Rats. This deck is well suited to crushing Bogles, so the stock list playing two Aura Flux seems like overkill. If they bring in Young Wolf for your Edicts, you can Rats for X=1 three times by holding CTRL (or X=2 while holding then CTRL X=1) to take it out.
Sideboard: -2 Disfigure, -1 Echoing Decay, -1 Reaping. -1 Flicker ||| +2 Edict, +2 Crypt Rats, +1 Archaeomancer

Burn - Game 1 is winnable but rough. You won't beat eight Bolts and two Fireblasts, but if the opponent plays a bunch of creatures into your removal, or if you get a bunch of gain lands and Chittering Rats and Counterspells, you can maneuver a Mancer + Flicker combo on either Chittering Rats to lock them out, or a gain land to just gain a bunch of life. Be careful of walking an Oracle or Rats into a Landfalled Searing Blaze - do everything you can to avoid that, but sometimes you just need to play a dude and pray. After sideboard you're vastly favored if they leave in creatures, and probably favored if they play correctly. Curse of the Pierced Heart is the most dangerous card in their deck, and you now get Hydroblasts. You have to leave some removal in just in case they have Alchemists still in the deck (or just to kill a Marauder to save three damage) but that's fine you had too many cards to take out already. Your gameplan is to counter everything - sometimes you need to let some Lava Spikes through to avoid letting a Curse resolve, but if you stay above 10 life and have counters in hand, you can eventually start Mancering back Hydroblasts and just negate anything they're doing. Be careful of Molten Rain on bouncelands.
Sideboard: -1 Recoil, -1 Reaping, -2 Crypt Rats, -1 Snuff Out, -2 Disfigure, -1 Echoing Decay, -1 Diabolic Edict ||| +3 Dispel, +4 Hydroblast, +2 Mancers.

Also, Burn players, please stop leaving in Thermo-Alchemists against any deck with removal. I keep winning easily against them because I get to trade 1-for-1 with the dorky creatures, and Burn cannot afford to trade 1-for-1 without dealing damage. They're also horrible topdecks, and they stop you from winning the traditional way against counter decks (use lots of burn to weaken the opponent, draw seven spells, end of turn spell spell spell, untap spell spell spell Fireblast.)

Kuldotha Boros - Kill their early pressure. Yes, it's card disadvantage to use a Disfigure on a Glint Hawk that returned a Prism, it doesn't matter. Apparently all the Kuldotha decks cut Mulldrifter, and if your opponents game plan is to try to outgrind you when you have Counterspell and Mulldrifter, good luck to them. The way you lose is if the opponent is allowed to keep four power on the table for a few turns, or get you down to 10 life and just burn you out. Sideboard you have Hydroblasts to stop early Rebirths, opposing Pyroblasts and to deal with them trying to burn you out, and Crypt Rats can just wrath the opponent to allow you to turn the game around. If the Jeskai deck comes back, you'll want to sideboard Choking Sands against them to cack their bouncelands, because that deck is absurdly mana hungry. Against the Boros deck they're probably too slow if the opponent doesn't just happen to play a turn 2 bounceland. If you can trick your opponent into playing Journey on one of your creatures and get to Recoil it, you'll feel like a god, but Recoil is also just fine at hitting early Bouncelands or keeping you alive.
Sideboard: -2 Disfigure, -1 Diabolic Edict, -1 Chittering Rats, -1 Snuff Out ||| +2 Crypt Rats, +3 Hydroblasts.

Tron - If they turn 3 Tron + Prophetic Prism and play a bunch of Mulldrifters, you're going to lose because they're the better Mulldrifter deck when Tron is on. If they just play a bunch of 5/5s and 8/8s, that's easily beatable. Try to cack a Tronland with Recoil if they're empty handed, counter Mulldrifter, etc. Prophetic Prism is the most important card to their deck, so keep an eye out if they're stuck off of colored mana and you see an opportunity to counter a Prism, feel free. Post board, Choking Sands can be great, or it can be terrible. Sometimes they hit Tron, play a Map, and you draw the Sands. Don't be afraid to shuffle it away with Brainstorm even if Tron is the only reason it's in the sideboard. Your gameplan post-board is to deny them Tron if possible, but otherwise you want to just Crypt Rats away their value creatures and kill their boom-booms.
Sideboard: Depends on the version. -2 Disfigure, -1 Echoing Decay ||| +2 Crypt Rats +2 Choking Sands for sure. If they have multiple Rolling Thunders, have at least one Hydroblast in. If you don't think they have Relics, bring in more Archaeomancers. If you know they have Relics, take out the Reaping but leave in at least a couple Archaeomancers. If they're on the mono-green version, play more Edicts. If they have a bunch of Condescends, consider bringing in some Dispels for it and Pulse. If you need to cut a card, Recoil is really only there for stealing wins when the opponent goes empty handed while also being able to just bounce a fatty when needed, so it's cuttable.

Delver - If they go turn 1 Delver blind flip and you can't remove it, you'll probably lose. Snuff Out is really good in this matchup, same with Disfigure. Try not to walk into Spellstutter Sprite, try to keep their board presence at bay, and work towards resolving a Crypt Rats or a Mulldrifter. Post-board, Dispel makes resolving Crypt Rats easier, and other than that it's just working through Stormbound Geists and Spire Golems with your other removal spells. Recoil buys a lot of time against a Geist, which you hopefully can use to wrath with Rats and then Edict.
Sideboard: -1 Reaping, -1 Ghostly Flicker, -1 Diabolic Edict, -2 Chittering Rats ||| +2 Crypt Rats, +3 Dispel

Stompy - Played it once, the opponent had a bad draw one game and walked into a Snuff Out on their creature they were targeting with Rancor in the other. Use your removal ASAP to kill their first creature to stop Bloodlust. Rancor is the only good card in Stompy, and trying to limit your exposure to allowing them to Rancor up a creature is the best plan. Will report back, this should be a rough matchup against a good draw.
Sideboard: -1 Reaping, -1 Flicker, -1 Recoil ||| +2 Crypt Rats, +1 Edict.

Other Mulldrifter decks (UB, UR, etc.) - Don't let Mulldrifter resolve, don't walk your spells into counter mana, etc. Run Rats and Oracles into counters while leaving your own counters up, and try to outgrind the opponent. If there's even a chance the UR deck has Spellstutter Sprite, don't walk your Brainstorms into them unless you can kill it with the trigger on the stack. If your opponent casts three Mulldrifters and you cast one, you're going to lose, so don't be amazed when that happens. Post-board you get Dispels to force your spells through, plus other cards depending on what you see.
Sideboard: Play it by ear. Did they have a bunch of Faeries and Ninjas? Keep in the Disfigures. Is it the Rats mirror? Take out most of the removal, bring in more Crypt Rats and Mancers and Dispels. Consider bringing in Choking Sands on the play if you want to steal a win by hitting an early bounceland. Hydroblast is usually bad against the UR deck unless you saw a weird spell, since it's not worth bringing in solely for Pyroblast.

Hellsau fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Jan 4, 2017

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem
Nice! I loved flicker rats when Drake was around, but I was a bit worried that not being able to slam a bunch of power to stabilise the board (and/or just combo off) on turn 5 would leave it a bit weak to the faster decks.

I guess playing evolving wilds for extra shuffles is just too slow?

I kind of like dead weight for dodging Dispel and loving up Atogs, but maybe recurring disfigure is more important.

Hellsau
Jan 14, 2010

NEVER FUCKING TAKE A NIGHT OFF CLAN WARS.
The Choking Sands in my Flicker Rats sideboard should 100% be Rancid Earth. You then can bring it in against the heavy Tokens builds for extra wraths. The two damage from Choking Sands should never matter.

Hellsau
Jan 14, 2010

NEVER FUCKING TAKE A NIGHT OFF CLAN WARS.
Stompy is an insanely easy match when the opponent plays their pump spells out of order. I suspect that Stompy would benefit from some Gitaxian Probes for the Flicker matchup. Knowing when you can and cannot Rancor, or when to setup a Hunger of the Howlpack, would be good. Probe is the only thing that makes the Kiln Fiend deck playable, since you really do need to know when you can just go for it, and it seems like Stompy has so many vulnerable pump spells that knowing what to sequence would be valuable.

Obviously I'm not going to play Stompy enough to find out because I can't draw Rancors, the only good card in that deck, but someone else can.

Also, today I learned Magnify is symmetrical. I remember knowing that like fifteen years ago, but I figured they'd have printed "G, Instant: Creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn" by now. I played a Crypt Rats against four 1/1 elves, tapped my last mana to Rats for 1, and they cast Magnify. I'm like, "okay, I've got a second rats, I'll just do it again next turn - hey wait why is my Rats alive." Turns out Elves is a terrible deck that can't beat Crypt Rats.

PJOmega
May 5, 2009
Anything besides Chandra's Revolution and Renegade Map sparking people's interest?

little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010

PJOmega posted:

Anything besides Chandra's Revolution and Renegade Map sparking people's interest?

Map just seems like a worse version of ash barrens or evolving wilds. Not sure what the upside would be.

Implement of Destruction is a better top-deck than Needle Drop, but might not be worth the extra mana (and doesn't trigger Thermo Alchemist). Mobile Garrison would let you trigger Night Market Lookout twice in that mono-b vehicle deck, but that sounds pretty bad. Being bad isn't really a deal-breaker for people playing that deck though. Universal Solvent could be good in tron if there was a way to loop it, I doubt one exists though.

Resourceful Return could have legs.

Aranan
May 21, 2007

Release the Kraken
Is there a good control deck on pauper? I have some midrange, combo, and aggro decks buy mono B just isn't able to keep up. I saw some weird Myr Servitor deck but it looks kind of janky.

Hellsau
Jan 14, 2010

NEVER FUCKING TAKE A NIGHT OFF CLAN WARS.

Aranan posted:

Is there a good control deck on pauper? I have some midrange, combo, and aggro decks buy mono B just isn't able to keep up. I saw some weird Myr Servitor deck but it looks kind of janky.

Mono Black Control is actually midrange. It's playing a bunch of 2/2s that try to grind the opponent out, or at least delay them long enough for your army of 2/2s to beat down. Its key card, the Merchant, requires a substantial board presence - that's not usually an indicator of a control deck. UB Flicker is midrange with a combo finish - it plays a bunch of removal and counters and 2/2s and just tries to grind the opponent out, or at least delay them long enough to assemble the Mancer/Rats/Flicker combo. The Metalcraft decks are all different flavors of midrange - you can try to aggro people out with tokens and Rally the Peasants, while falling back on grinding the opponent out with cantripping 2/2 and 2/3 fliers if the aggro plan fails, or you can build it splashing Mulldrifter to grind the opponent out, or you can play the Grixis version and use Bleak-Coven Vampires to gain some life to give you more time to grind the opponent out. Tron is also not a control deck, it's a ramp deck that sometimes doesn't get Tron early and resorts to playing a bunch of Oracles and Mulldrifters to grind the opponent out.

The Teachings decks are basically control, and are bad, because why put in all the effort to make a creatureless control deck when just adding 4 Oracles and 4 Mulldrifters let you get both card advantage and win conditions, and hey since you already have those creatures why not add a few Archaeomancers and a Flicker to tutor for? And then you're back into midrange. If you're playing paper, you can make a Teachings deck that wins via Sprout Swarm, but I played Drake forever and never timed out and even I would be afraid to time out trying to win casting a card that costs 5 and has Convoke a bunch. Tortured Existence plays like a control deck when it has their namesake, and is otherwise unplayable.

Pauper is just a bunch of midrange decks hoping their opponent doesn't blind flip multiple Delvers or play Rancor on Young Wolf.

little munchkin posted:

Universal Solvent could be good in tron if there was a way to loop it, I doubt one exists though.

There's Tron decks playing Sanctum Gargoyle, so if Solvent is really that much better than that 7 mana Eldrazi card from BFZ that exiles something, it could slot in there. Tron decks usually don't have trouble dealing with random permanents when they have Tron, though. If they ever put the loving Custodi Squire onto MTGO that also can bring it back if for some reason the Blink decks really need some way to kill permanents for lots of mana.

Hellsau fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jan 9, 2017

lazerwolf
Dec 22, 2009

Orange and Black

PJOmega posted:

Anything besides Chandra's Revolution and Renegade Map sparking people's interest?

Defiant Salvager could be nice in some sort of GB sacrifice deck with bloodbriar

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Hellsau posted:

Finally settled on a deck - Flicker Rats is back, baby! Wall of text incoming.

This is a really fun deck, thanks for posting it. It took me literally a week fooling around with it before I figured out that you return the ghostly flicker to your hand each time by flickering an archomancer and something else, felt dumb when I realized it. I've noticed that I tend to lose as many games to running out of time as getting solidly beat, so people should keep an eye on that: it is a slow deck and you can't rely on winning a game if you don't have enough time. Try not to fall behind in time and when you're practicing practice making sure you're trying to go faster because nothing sucks more than running out of time while you've got an edge but they're filibustering you.

Neat deck, thanks for posting it.

Johnny Five-Jaces
Jan 21, 2009


Hellsau posted:

Turns out Elves is a terrible deck that can't beat Crypt Rats.

hi all

i've been playing elves a bunch and this is really true

also there's a real bad UG sprout swarm/coiling oracle/essence warden deck that Im going to play

Vital Signs
Oct 17, 2007
I ran an MTGO Pauper League for local Ann Arbor folks for a couple months, and it fell apart during the holidays. Essentially everyone pays in 5 or 10 tickets and we do a round robin tournament where you play everyone once within the month. Then top 4 or top 8 based on standings. If anyone wants in on this, PM me or email me at d(dot)vanderlooven(at)gmail(dot)com and I'll add you to the facebook group. This is casual, so don't be an asshat.

suicidesteve
Jan 4, 2006

"Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.


Vital Signs posted:

I ran an MTGO Pauper League for local Ann Arbor folks for a couple months, and it fell apart during the holidays. Essentially everyone pays in 5 or 10 tickets and we do a round robin tournament where you play everyone once within the month. Then top 4 or top 8 based on standings. If anyone wants in on this, PM me or email me at d(dot)vanderlooven(at)gmail(dot)com and I'll add you to the facebook group. This is casual

This sounds interesting.

Vital Signs posted:

so don't be an asshat.

nm I'm out.

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PJOmega
May 5, 2009

lazerwolf posted:

Defiant Salvager could be nice in some sort of GB sacrifice deck with bloodbriar

I can't see Defiant Salvager seeing play over Carrion Feeder in such a hypothetical deck.

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