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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:Be prepared for the most convoluted reading order ever. Oh boy, that's a lot of Bat. Thanks.
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Jan 6, 2018 03:50
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Its like 8 years long and widely considered the best run of Batman comics ever and most certainly within this century, and up there among the best single runs of a comic ever alongside like, Bendis' USM and Hickman's Fantastic Four to SW 2015 run.
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Jan 6, 2018 03:53
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:Its like 8 years long and widely considered the best run of Batman comics ever and most certainly within this century, and up there among the best single runs of a comic ever alongside like, Bendis' USM and Hickman's Fantastic Four to SW 2015 run. I definitely plan to get around to it eventually. Batman ain't what he used to be. I got back into him after the movies and these newer comics are some serious poo poo.
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Jan 6, 2018 05:41
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Morrison didn't read everything in The Black Casebook before writing his run, and I'm not convinced it's necessary for anyone else to either (but it does provide a lot of additional context).
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Jan 6, 2018 06:39
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I hope that was on the foreword. "I just looked at the funny old covers, but read 'em if you want.- Grant Morrison"
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Jan 6, 2018 06:45
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Morrison didn't read everything in The Black Casebook before writing his run, and I'm not convinced it's necessary for anyone else to either (but it does provide a lot of additional context). Would it be safe to skip this one. I noticed on Amazon it's only sold third-party at an inflated rate.
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Jan 6, 2018 06:59
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You just need to understand that one of the goals of the run was to show that everything ever published, especially the crazy ideas from when the comics were going bonkers in the 50's and 60's, really happened to the current Batman. You can just Google anything that seems to stick out and find a crazy old comic. edit: It even went as far as canonising the Japan-only Batman manga. You can buy that, but I doubt he's expecting anyone to go do the homework for a bit of fun. This has quite a good piece about it at the bottom. The rest you might want to skip for slight spoilers, but it sells the run pretty well. https://numberonebatfan.wordpress.c...ted-memorable5/ Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 07:07
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Teenage Fansub posted:You just need to understand that one of the goals of the run was to show that everything ever published, especially the crazy ideas from when the comics were going bonkers in the 50's and 60's, really happened to the current Batman. I've read the 'Batman in the 40's' compilation, 50's too it's pretty hilarious comparing them to the modern comics.
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Jan 6, 2018 07:19
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HoneyBakedMAN posted:Would it be safe to skip this one. I noticed on Amazon it's only sold third-party at an inflated rate. This always gets asked and people argue you don't have to but no, I would say it's pretty crucial to have intimate knowledge of at the very least Robin Dies At Dawn and the Batman of Zurr-En-Arrh to have Batman RIP (which is literally the reason you read Morrisons run) make sense. Like, again, would really really argue neither issue is disposable, since in a lot of ways RIP is a direct sequel to both stories. If it's too expensive because it is out of print (which it looks like it is cause DC is dumb) I'm sure you can find a workaround somehow. They're really super important Golden and Silver Age stories that Morrison uses in his run, and DC is really loving stupid for not reprinting them in trades, or at least those two stories specifically.
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Jan 6, 2018 07:50
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LTW, do you have a book out? Is your nom de plume an open secret?
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Jan 6, 2018 08:03
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RIP was your favourite part?
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Jan 6, 2018 08:06
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Teenage Fansub posted:RIP was your favourite part? It's most people's, especially on this forum. Either that or Batman and Robin. Space Fish posted:LTW, do you have a book out? Is your nom de plume an open secret? What?
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Jan 6, 2018 08:08
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:especially on this forum. I'd be shocked. The start of BnR would definitely be it. After that, I'm guessing the lighter adventures in Inc vol.1, then everything up till RIP (edit: minus the prose issue, of course.) I don't think many people are fans of Tony Daniel or that Joker. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 08:16
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Teenage Fansub posted:I'd be shocked. The start of BnR would definitely be it. After that, I'm guessing the lighter adventures in Inc vol.1, then everything up till RIP. I actually ran a straw poll on this subject a year and a half ago and RIP scored number two behind Year One, with Inc being the next highest Morrison story at 4. I forgot to include Batman and Robin on that list so maybe that would perform higher but I doubt it. Lick! The! Whisk! posted:Sorry for the doublepost, but:
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Jan 6, 2018 08:26
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I rank Year One below RIP just because of that tree
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Jan 6, 2018 08:41
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Just like All-Star Superman, everyone knows the original All-Star Batman is the quintessential work.
Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 08:48
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Teenage Fansub posted:It's a decade long run over several titles. B&R and Batman Inc were already made into Absolutes.
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Jan 6, 2018 11:19
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The second omni will probably have ROBW sprinkled in with BnR all the right places, which would be a huge plus.
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Jan 6, 2018 11:41
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I would have voted for Batman & Robin on a list of best stories without even knowing if you were talking about Morrison's or Tomasi/Gleason's B&R
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Jan 6, 2018 16:03
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Teenage Fansub posted:Just like All-Star Superman, everyone knows the original All-Star Batman is the quintessential work.
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Jan 6, 2018 18:06
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:This always gets asked and people argue you don't have to but no, I would say it's pretty crucial to have intimate knowledge of at the very least Robin Dies At Dawn and the Batman of Zurr-En-Arrh to have Batman RIP (which is literally the reason you read Morrisons run) make sense. Like, again, would really really argue neither issue is disposable, since in a lot of ways RIP is a direct sequel to both stories. Oh well I'll read the other suggestions and hopefully there will be a new version of it available by then. A Morrison Omnibus would be great. Speaking of Omnibus', What's peoples opinion of the Knightfall/quest/end saga. I've noticed they're releasing Omnibus' collecting this giant saga and it seems interesting.
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Jan 6, 2018 18:40
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The Black Casebook is only necessary if you want to see the origin of the ideas Morrison explores but isn't needed to actually enjoy the story line. It would be like reading every story referenced in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen to try enjoy that title. As for how I would rank Morrison Batman stuff, RIP is the best of the original Batman run by him (Batman and Son was a lot of fun but could be a bit uneven at parts, and while I love the artwork on the League of Batmen or whatever it was called, I feel like the international Batman stuff was stuff that should have stayed buried in the silver age). I would rate Morrison's Batman and Robin run higher than his Batman run though, and his Batman Inc run was extremely uneven throughout.
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Jan 6, 2018 23:55
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I read the Black Casebook before reading Morrison's run for the first time and it both hurt and helped the experience. Trying to figure out the Zur-en-Arrh references as they popped up was ultimate distracting, but the stuff with the League of Batmen and the weird Dr. Hurt chamber was awesome to see come back.
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Jan 7, 2018 00:03
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Reading Morrison's run before I read the case book and felt like I was constantly missing something and really didn't appreciate at all what Morrison was trying to do. Which is an incredibly frustrating feeling for me personally.
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Jan 7, 2018 00:52
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I never read the Black Casebook, and don't really feel like I missed anything. You don't need to know about the Batman of Zur En Arrh to understand the new iteration.
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Jan 7, 2018 01:28
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You seem especially well-equipped with comics opinions and the means to express them. I have no clue who you are, but your writing style would suit a number of comics sites well. Have you (or anyone else here) considered writing for The (Comics) Beat?
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Jan 7, 2018 03:31
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I like Knightfall pretty well. It is definitely longer than it needs to be, and a lot of the tie ins are pretty unnecessary, but what crossover isn't? It's not the best or the worst giant Batman crossover event. I think everyone should read the main storyline, at least.
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Jan 8, 2018 16:02
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Just finished Batman Eternal Vol. 1. While it was a bit of a mess in spots, I enjoyed it overall. It was cool seeing lots of old Batman villians and heroes sprout back up. The art in some issues was flabberghastingly bad.
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Jan 8, 2018 16:17
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Due to some people asking about best Batman stories to read and such, I have compiled a list below of some of the best Batman stories to read that aren't Dark Knight Returns, Long Halloween, Year 1, Snyder's run, Morrison's run etc, because those get recommended a lot. This list contains some stuff I already mentioned, and a few more titles. First the stuff already mentioned: Now for some other stuff: Gates of Gotham Yes it's a Snyder book but it happened pre-Nu52 and is quite a fun world building story Doom that Came to Gotham Despite some wonky art this is a great Elseworld that mixes Batman and Lovecraftian horror [https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Venom...V6Q5G4XBBEZHZFS]Batman: Venom[/url] A pretty solid storyline (though the ending goes way out there at parts) showcasing how far Batman would go to never fail again. Set up for a lot of mid-90's Batman stuff Batman: Man who laughs Kind of a sequel to Year 1 showing Batman's first meeting/fight with the Joker. Solid story Whatever Happened to the caped crusader Kind of a "final story" for Batman. Some pretty heady stuff in here but it is also a great Gaiman story and a quick fun read Batman: Gothic An early Morrison Batman story that is a straight forward horror story which showcases that Morrison can write good straightforward stories Batman: Contagion While Knightfall and No Man's Land get a lot of praise for being a crossover done right, I always had a soft spot for Contagion which I saw as a template for No Man's Land. A deadly virus befalls Gotham sending the city into chaos and Batman and family have to try stop it all. There was a sequel in Legacy but that was not as great Contagion in my opinion Batman: Year 100 kind of an elseworld featuring glorious artwork by Paul Pope, imagining a new Batman in the future. Lot of great action in this story. Batman: Vampire I have a huge love for Moench and Kelly's run on Batman and this volume collects their elseworld series of Batman fighting Dracula and becoming a vampire himself. Really the first part is excellent and all you need. The second part was a let down and I never read the third part. Just recommending this for the first part alone Batman: The Monster men and Batman: The Mad Monk These are both retelling of an early Batman adventure (kind of in the vain as Long Halloween) featuring great Matt Wagner artwork. Great story and art and writing really gives these books a classic feel. Read both as they are "part 1/part 2" of the same story. Collected Legends of the Dark Knight a collection of three storylines from Legends of the Dark Knight, the reason I am recommending this is because of the storyline Blades which featured amazing Tim Sale artwork. This was one of the first stories I read that made me fall in love with Batman comics. Batman: Black and white Black and white stories by some of comics top creators. I haven't read volume 2 and 3 but volume one has some great stories and is worth hunting down Batman: Going Sane One of the best Joker stories ever written. Takes the premise of what would happen of Joker actually succeeded and killed Batman. Apparently that would break Joker's mind and force him to "go sane". A great look at the Joker character and a great story. There are probably dozens of more titles I could recommend, but I will leave this here for now.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:43
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I finished reading Gotham Central and, man. Gotham Central sure is a loving incredible run of comics.
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Jan 8, 2018 22:56
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Batman Eternal would be a good but bumpy series if Cluemaster had been the big bad instead of Lincoln March. That reveal sucked.
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Jan 11, 2018 05:06
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Mr Hootington posted:Batman Eternal would be a good but bumpy series if Cluemaster had been the big bad instead of Lincoln March. That reveal sucked. It's so loving bad and makes the whole thing feel like a gigantic waste of time even somehow discounting the Batwing and Arkham Asylum stuff, which is the boringest loving poo poo in the world. If it was just a Bluebird and Spoiler intro it would've been great but they had to craft all these subplots on to it and make another loving Lincoln Marsh grand plot even though it was literally just done in the main book.
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Jan 11, 2018 18:12
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:It's so loving bad and makes the whole thing feel like a gigantic waste of time even somehow discounting the Batwing and Arkham Asylum stuff, which is the boringest loving poo poo in the world. Yeah this is how i felt too. The arkham stuff was interesting, but poorly executed and a little confusing. Plus every villian popped up and escaped a million times. That got old. The stuff with Catwoman was dumb. Same with Poison Ivy. Bluebird and Spoiler were good and I want more of them after this series. And gently caress they could have made the big secret bad Hugo Strange and the story would have been so much better.
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Jan 11, 2018 19:06
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I think the whole story's central plot is recontextualizing Stephanie Brown for the N52 so making the ultimate big bad literally anything else but the Cluemaster wouldn't ahve worked, but it especially doesn't work considering the big bad is Lincoln Marsh. But yeah, if all the Big Bads showed up and got away like the comic intimates they do, and if the guy behind the curtain was actually the Cluemaster, then all the fakeouts make sense - he's taking advantage of the fact that he's a Z-tier villain by having all the A-tier villains do the dirty work for him. It's also a great counterpoint to Zero Year - Cluemaster is a bad version of the Riddler, who spent his time as the Big Bad of an arc by basically capturing a city and making it one giant puzzle Batman has to solve. Cluemaster spends his time as the big bad by basically working in the shadows as a big ol' lazy coward manipulating everyone else to do all the heavy lifting, then essentially ksing Batman out from under everyone else. It makes thematic sense both for who Cluemaster is metanarratively speaking and how he's characterized in the series, especially as a counterpoint to Stephanie Brown's apotheosis. But it all gets undercut by the loving Lincoln Marsh reveal so none of this poo poo matters. It's a pretty loving infuriating 52 issue waste of time. Make sure you read Arkham Manor cause it's the only good thing to come out of Batman Eternal. What a goddamn waste of time that yearly was. But yeah, Batman and Robin Eternal is someone taking Batman Eternal and making it actually loving good. It helps that it's only a half-year long weekly so there's no equivalent of the interminable and go-nowhere Batwing subplot that they have to include in BE just to waste a ton of loving time, but yeah, it's actually thematically cohesive and pays off in a way BE absolutely does not. Mr Hootington posted:
Guess what, bad news. Well, outside of, well, Batman and Robin Eternal, neither of these characters are basically ever used outside of Rebirth and even then it's only Spoiler. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jan 11, 2018 |
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Jan 11, 2018 19:22
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:I think the whole story's central plot is recontextualizing Stephanie Brown for the N52 so making the ultimate big bad literally anything else but the Cluemaster wouldn't ahve worked, but it especially doesn't work considering the big bad is Lincoln Marsh. But yeah, if all the Big Bads showed up and got away like the comic intimates they do, and if the guy behind the curtain was actually the Cluemaster, then all the fakeouts make sense - he's taking advantage of the fact that he's a Z-tier villain by having all the A-tier villains do the dirty work for him. It's also a great counterpoint to Zero Year - Cluemaster is a bad version of the Riddler, who spent his time as the Big Bad of an arc by basically capturing a city and making it one giant puzzle Batman has to solve. Cluemaster spends his time as the big bad by basically working in the shadows as a big ol' lazy coward manipulating everyone else to do all the heavy lifting, then essentially ksing Batman out from under everyone else. It makes thematic sense both for who Cluemaster is metanarratively speaking and how he's characterized in the series, especially as a counterpoint to Stephanie Brown's apotheosis. I agree with your wall of text. I think the story would have worked a little better too if we had seen more of the other z-listers doing things. Like halfway through we knew they were there but we didnt see the results until the sudden riots and burning down of gotham. Yeah arkham manor looked interesting same with Gotham by Midnight. Will get those in the next big DC sale. I'm not sure about Arkhan War but it is referenced a lot. I need to figure out where B&R Eternal fits in the reading order. I never see it on lists! I saw Harper retired in the Rebirth Batman comics while I was reading those and was disappointed with Spoiler's heel turn. Neither made much sense unless there is more between Batman Eternal and those issues that I havent read. Yet to see Duke desides Zero Year so still don't know why I should give a poo poo about him and his dumb costume and name.
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Jan 11, 2018 22:46
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He's really important in Robin War and We Are Robin. If you don't read either you won't be compelled to care and he figures heavily in Endgame as well. It's best to read Batman and Robin Eternal right after Endgame and before Superheavy. It's one story, and a weekly, so basically should be read entirely in one shot without reading anything to break it up.
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Jan 11, 2018 23:25
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Duke is good, his costume is good, and his codename is good. Read We Are Robin! Don't read Robin War. I guess it figures in to the Rebirth Nightwing series a little bit. I still wouldn't call it worth reading. I liked B&RE better than BE probably because it was mostly the kids interacting, despite Batman telling his son that he's OK with Jason killing people.
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Jan 11, 2018 23:35
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purple death ray posted:Duke is good, his costume is good, and his codename is good. Read We Are Robin! Don't read Robin War. I guess it figures in to the Rebirth Nightwing series a little bit. I still wouldn't call it worth reading. Duke maybe good I don't know yet. I can get used to the costume, but that name. Duke and Harper should have been a Dou who setup shop in the Narrows and be called Canary and Bluebird. 
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Jan 12, 2018 00:38
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I am absolutely floored by how bad End Game was. What a lovely comic.
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Jan 12, 2018 04:54
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Mr Hootington posted:I am absolutely floored by how bad End Game was. What a lovely comic. Doctor Spaceman posted:Death of the Family and Endgame are easily the weakest points in Synder's run.
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Jan 12, 2018 05:01
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