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Captain Fargle
Feb 16, 2011

The Expanse





A series of novels by James S.A. Corey, a pseudonym for the collaboration between authors Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck. It's a fairly hard sci-fi series about the escalating crisis between the three factions of a cold war in the Sol System an undisclosed number of years into the future. It starts out as a sort of noir mystery crossed with sci-fi adventure in the first book before becoming more of an adventure/political thriller in later entries. Each book is told from the perspective of a selection of viewpoint characters who rotate in and out but the series as whole revolves around the crew of the Rocinante, a legitimately salvaged rogue Martian naval corvette.

The Expanse begins in a period where relations between Earth and Mars, which have been stable although not at all friendly, are being strained by the emergence of the OPA (Outer Planets Alliance). The OPA seek political independence for "Belters" (The permanent human population of the various mining stations and research facilities established beyond Mars' orbit.) who feel that they are being unfairly exploited by the terrestrial governments. At a point when racist tensions are running particularly high the ice hauler Canterbury, a Belter ship, is nuked without warning into it's component atoms by unidentifiable stealth warships while trying to answer a faked distress call. Filled with rage James Holden, second in command and leader of the survivors who had left to investigate the ship on which the beacon was planted, releases a defiant broadcast to rest of the solar system howling for justice and revenge that threatens to turn the cold war hot.

-------------------------------------------

The series currently consists of five books, three novellas and two short stories. It's very much recommended that you read them in publishing order, which is as follows. Primary novels are denoted in bold:

Leviathan Wakes

The Butcher of Anderson Station

Caliban's War

Gods of Risk

Drive

Abbadon's Gate

The Churn

Cibola Burn

Nemesis Games

The Vital Abyss


The sixth book, Babylon's Ashes is due for release in November.

--------------------------------------------------

A TV adaptation of The Expanse is currently underway. Created by the SyFy channel in an attempt to recover their image after half a dozen years of being "The Sharknado People", the show is surprisingly excellent and has both creators involved in primary writing and production roles. Superbly casted and tightly paced, although constantly overshadowed by Shohreh Aghdashloo's utterly magnificent wardrobe, the show is definitely recommended for fans of the genre.

Season 2 begins airing in January 2017. The thread for it, NO BOOK SPOILERS ALLOWED can be found here:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3752825

---------------------------------------------------

THIS THREAD ASSUMES EVERYTHING UP UNTIL BABYLON'S ASHES COUNTS AS FAIR GAME FOR SPOILERS. DO NOT COME IN HERE WHINING THAT YOU GOT SPOILERED ON THE OLDER BOOKS BECAUSE YOU DECIDED TO READ THE ENTIRE THREAD FIRST.

.....

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Dalmuti
Apr 8, 2007
In my brain alex is jason mantzoukas

Captain Fargle
Feb 16, 2011

Dalmuti posted:

In my brain alex is jason mantzoukas

I don't really know who was in my head before but it's sure as hell Cas Anvar now.

Also Antony Dresden is Jason Isaacs.

EDIT: Bobbie is The Rock in a wig.

Captain Fargle fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Aug 21, 2016

Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

everyone looks like their firefly counterparts

:negative:

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe

Strategic Tea posted:

everyone looks like their firefly counterparts

:negative:

yup

Captain Fargle
Feb 16, 2011

Strategic Tea posted:

everyone looks like their firefly counterparts

:negative:

I'm pretty sure casting Summer Glau as Mei is EXTREMELY inappropriate...

meanolmrcloud
Apr 5, 2004

rock out with your stock out

Just finished the 2nd book last night and was pretty happy with it. I'm always wary of not liking new characters but I ended up happy with the new additions. I heard the 3rd isn't as great however.

Lord Hydronium
Sep 25, 2007

Non, je ne regrette rien


The 3rd is probably the weakest, but I still enjoyed it. But you have also people on here insisting it's irredeemable trash, so as with all things I suggest reading it anyway and deciding for yourself. 4 is good and 5 is great, so there's that to look forward to as well.

I get that Babylon's Ashes was delayed due to the show, but I still miss my yearly summer releases. :(

bitprophet
Jul 22, 2004
Taco Defender

meanolmrcloud posted:

Just finished the 2nd book last night and was pretty happy with it. I'm always wary of not liking new characters but I ended up happy with the new additions. I heard the 3rd isn't as great however.

Books 3 and 4 are a little different in terms of scenery / pacing / amount of ground covered, but I don't think they're worse, they just aren't "literally just more of books 1-2". Still competently written, enjoyable character interactions, fictional science, etc.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007


My biggest issue with Abbadon's Gate is... well, Clarissa. The rest was actually pretty enjoyable, but the fact that she, somehow, drove so much of the plot to start with was really aggravating.

Like in a lot of ways the story is about one of the most pivotal moments in human history... but the way it goes down is largely orchestrated by a dumb vengeful rich kid with a nonsensical obsession with the protagonist.

Otherwise I actually enjoyed a lot of the stuff I suspect other people didn't have much patience for. Like Anna and her whole plot. Clarissa after she gives up is actually kind of fine too. But the way things got rolling was just too dumb.


If you're reading the series now, keep going. Even if you don't end up liking 3 and 4 like some people don't, 5 is fantastic by any metric and you kind of need to read the ones leading up to it. Especially 3 at least. And honestly they're not that bad, they just have some issues, while the rest are pretty purely fantastic.

Captain Fargle
Feb 16, 2011

Eiba posted:

My biggest issue with Abbadon's Gate is... well, Clarissa. The rest was actually pretty enjoyable, but the fact that she, somehow, drove so much of the plot to start with was really aggravating.


gently caress CLAIRE.

I spent the whole book being pissed off at her and I guess maybe that was the point but jesus christ. Sticking her in there with Anna didn't help matters either. "Oh boo hoo! We're trapped in deep space with limited resources and THOSE ASSHOLES want to execute the self-confessed mass murderer! I'm going to emotionally blackmail you into not testifying against her now!"

Just gently caress right the hell off.

Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

Captain Fargle posted:

gently caress CLAIRE.

I spent the whole book being pissed off at her and I guess maybe that was the point but jesus christ. Sticking her in there with Anna didn't help matters either. "Oh boo hoo! We're trapped in deep space with limited resources and THOSE ASSHOLES want to execute the self-confessed mass murderer! I'm going to emotionally blackmail you into not testifying against her now!"

Just gently caress right the hell off.

Good news, she's out of prison and ready to kick rear end for book 6!

I do think the authors have some weird kind of anti-worship for nasty people, where they call them psychopaths and make them able to effortlessly clown on everyone around them at all times. Which is strange after they did Amos so well...

Captain Fargle
Feb 16, 2011

Strategic Tea posted:

Good news, she's out of prison and ready to kick rear end for book 6!

Ahh gently caress. Babylon's Ashes better have a hell of a lot of Avasarala to make up for it.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
I think they just can't write villains. Claire is supposed to have a sympathetic turn somewhere but it just doesn't happen. 6 5's bad guy is even worse, that's some saturday morning cartoon poo poo.
Here's to joining in hope for more Avasarala.

e: Can't count to five, apparently. Sorry!

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Aug 24, 2016

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!





Avasarala is hilarious. I love every second she's on screen, and more than a few where she's in the background, swearing up a storm.

NmareBfly
Jul 16, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


It's worth noting that the audiobook narrator for the first three books absolutely nails Avasarala's line delivery. Unfortunately, they switch narrators on 4 and the new one's not nearly as good.

Toast Museum
Dec 3, 2005

30% Iron Chef

NmareBfly posted:

It's worth noting that the audiobook narrator for the first three books absolutely nails Avasarala's line delivery. Unfortunately, they switch narrators on 4 and the new one's not nearly as good.

The original narrator came back for book 5. I don't remember him doing Avasarala differently than he did in the earlier books.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007


NmareBfly posted:

It's worth noting that the audiobook narrator for the first three books absolutely nails Avasarala's line delivery. Unfortunately, they switch narrators on 4 and the new one's not nearly as good.
Book 4 has one of the worst audiobook narrators I've ever heard. It's staggeringly bad.

I mean, I dealt with it. I love audiobooks as I have a fairly long commute. But I basically had to mentally translate what the guy was saying out of his goofy cartoon poo poo into human speech. He probably ruined some characters for me anyway.

The original guy is back in 5. I vaguely recall reading somewhere that he just wasn't available for 4, so hopefully we won't have to deal with that poo poo again if they schedule things better because the original guy is legitimately one of the best audobook narrators I've ever heard. The contrast is staggering.

anilEhilated posted:

I think they just can't write villains. Claire is supposed to have a sympathetic turn somewhere but it just doesn't happen. 6's bad guy is even worse, that's some saturday morning cartoon poo poo.
Here's to joining in hope for more Avasarala.
6's bad guy? Did you get an early copy or something?

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Eiba posted:

6's bad guy? Did you get an early copy or something?
Ouch, 5. Nemesis Games. Somehow I thought there's one more book somewhere in there.

Captain Fargle
Feb 16, 2011

anilEhilated posted:

Ouch, 5. Nemesis Games. Somehow I thought there's one more book somewhere in there.

Oh thank god. Considerably more optimistic for book six now. I thought you meant they were dragging Claire back as a viewpoint character for Babylon's Ashes.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!





The same thing, as far as audiobook narrators, happened in Jim Butcher's Dresden Files books. James Marsters did all of the audiobooks but one where he was unavailable to do it. There was so much outcry that a few years on they got Marsters to record that book so that you could get the whole series by Marsters.

Maybe, if people bitch enough, the same thing will happen for the Expanse books. :shrug:

Captain Fargle
Feb 16, 2011

jng2058 posted:

The same thing, as far as audiobook narrators, happened in Jim Butcher's Dresden Files books. James Marsters did all of the audiobooks but one where he was unavailable to do it. There was so much outcry that a few years on they got Marsters to record that book so that you could get the whole series by Marsters.

Maybe, if people bitch enough, the same thing will happen for the Expanse books. :shrug:

People probably wouldn't even mind that much if it wasn't for the fact that Erik Davies is probably one of the worst narrators in history.

Collateral
Feb 17, 2010
I posted this in the TVIV thread where people were bitching on about Cibola Burn, but I stand by it:

The payoff in Cibola Burn is great. Ghost Miller as a Multi Limbed Tunneling Primordial Horror Thing was worth the drudge that was Ms Horny Doctor.

The Investigator + Miller aren't gone forever, are they? :ohdear: I've heard he is back, but

The main bad/character was the planet and to a lesser extent The Investigator, as such it was the less liked ginger half sibling of space opera, planetary romance. David Brinn tried the same thing with his second uplift trilogy*, though Cibola isn't half as turgid as that.

*The Uplift War was also Planetary Romance.

Captain Fargle
Feb 16, 2011

Collateral posted:

I posted this in the TVIV thread where people were bitching on about Cibola Burn, but I stand by it:

The payoff in Cibola Burn is great. Ghost Miller as a Multi Limbed Tunneling Primordial Horror Thing was worth the drudge that was Ms Horny Doctor.

The Investigator + Miller aren't gone forever, are they? :ohdear: I've heard he is back, but

The main bad/character was the planet and to a lesser extent The Investigator, as such it was the less liked ginger half sibling of space opera, planetary romance. David Brinn tried the same thing with his second uplift trilogy*, though Cibola isn't half as turgid as that.

*The Uplift War was also Planetary Romance.

Cibola Burn suffers terribly from the way they just give up on any kind of moral ambiguity. It sets itself up really, REALLY well with this fascinating situation where both sides are wrong and then just kinda pisses it all away.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007


Captain Fargle posted:

Cibola Burn suffers terribly from the way they just give up on any kind of moral ambiguity. It sets itself up really, REALLY well with this fascinating situation where both sides are wrong and then just kinda pisses it all away.
You know... that's really true isn't it. I give Cibola Burn a lot of credit because the premise was pretty drat interesting. Settlers and scientists, terrorists and authoritarians... so many groups with so many good valid perspectives, all squabbling over a tiny patch of dirt on a massive planet in a massive new galaxy of planets. The enormity of the gulf between people in a setting so petty and small was honestly a beautiful contrast to me. Even the contrast between the concept of the limitless frontier and the reality of shoveling slugs was pretty neat and satisfying to me.

But then the plot ended up being driven exclusively by that one guy not just being a dick, but being dumb too.

Kind of epitomizes the Expanse in general- a fantastic rich world full of incredible well realized ideas... and dumb unsatisfying villains.

Captain Fargle
Feb 16, 2011

Eiba posted:

You know... that's really true isn't it. I give Cibola Burn a lot of credit because the premise was pretty drat interesting. Settlers and scientists, terrorists and authoritarians... so many groups with so many good valid perspectives, all squabbling over a tiny patch of dirt on a massive planet in a massive new galaxy of planets. The enormity of the gulf between people in a setting so petty and small was honestly a beautiful contrast to me. Even the contrast between the concept of the limitless frontier and the reality of shoveling slugs was pretty neat and satisfying to me.

But then the plot ended up being driven exclusively by that one guy not just being a dick, but being dumb too.

Kind of epitomizes the Expanse in general- a fantastic rich world full of incredible well realized ideas... and dumb unsatisfying villains.

Hey now! Errinwright, Nguyen and Mao Sr. weren't dumb! They were great. Probably not a coincidence that they were the villains in the best book in the series.

God I wish they'd give us another book of Avasarala as a viewpoint character.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007


I know the whole thread is a spoiler zone, but I'll warn anyway that this post contains major spoilers for... pretty much everything in the series released so far.

Captain Fargle posted:

Hey now! Errinwright, Nguyen and Mao Sr. weren't dumb! They were great. Probably not a coincidence that they were the villains in the best book in the series.

God I wish they'd give us another book of Avasarala as a viewpoint character.
Well, they weren't as bad as some other villains in that the broad strokes of their plan (weaponize this stuff no one understands for an uncounterable advantage over Mars) weren't inherently absurd or self destructive. The execution on the other hand... you'd think they would have been way more careful with the whole "stuff no one understands."

Though I suppose it wouldn't have been much of a story if nothing had gone wrong for them.

But yeah, they were the most reasonable of the lot. In Leviathan Wakes they unleash the aforementioned "stuff no one understands" on a minor population center essentially unchecked, which given the reasonable assumption at the time that it was a weapon designed to wipe out all life on Earth seems like a pretty foolish move on the face of it, without even getting into the ethics of the situation. (The casual hand-wave that they reprogrammed all their scientists to be sociopaths wasn't all that satisfying an explanation, even if a halfway decent short story followed up on that idea).

Abbadon's Gate is full of the most frustrating antagonists. Clarissa Mao drives things early on, despite being such a ridiculous character, and then a bunch of confused people gently caress things up until Captain Ashford decides this poo poo is too scary and decides to risk wiping out humanity because he doesn't understand what's going on.

Murtry's worldview was actually kind of interesting and made some sense... until he went off the rails and was willing to kill everyone including himself for the sake of loyalty to his corporation. Nationalism or religious fervor I get. But corporate loyalty?

Marco Inaros... actually is one of the better villains in my eyes. He's mainly absurd because he happens to be Naomi's ex-husband which is just a weird coincidence, and too much of his story revolves around his relationship with her. The idea of a marginalized radicalized people having a splinter faction of extremists who plot terrible things is pretty plausible. And in the world of the Expanse, it's actually plausible that people in their position could do as much damage as they did. The main thing that strains credulity is the sheer scale of the devastation they were willing to inflict. Happily killing billions for political reasons? Though even that is sadly plausible.


Actually, having gone over it like this I think the greedy corporate/political antagonists of the first two books are in some ways the least respectable. Murtry represented something interesting- an extreme reaction to an extreme situation- before he went literally crazy, and Abbadon's Gate was about people who didn't understand anything flailing about in panic, so naturally the antagonist is going to be foolish. The first two books had rich and powerful people in a safe stable system loving with incomprehensibly dangerous things for... a bit more profit and power. But I guess even that is more or less true to life.


You know, this is a drat good book series. I hadn't really considered some aspects of the larger structure until I tried to justify my offhand comment with detail like this, but the whole thing hangs together remarkably well. The antagonists' motivations are the most important thing for making a story believable to me, and nitpicks aside (individual characters often go off the rails here (looking at you, Clarissa)), what the antagonists represented in all these books... pretty much makes sense. Even if they're frustrating at times.

The best antagonist in this respect is honestly the protomolecule. I'm always wary of aliens that aren't alien enough or are dumb or contrived in some way for the sake of the plot (like any alien that's capable of interstellar travel, but wants to do something so comparatively petty as subjugate the Earth), but the protomolecule pretty much makes sense. It's just an automated probe set up by absurdly advanced aliens to construct an FTL gate. Everything it does makes sense from that perspective. The portrayal of it as a being with a (coopted human) consciousness that can understand it can't complete its mission, but with nothing but a drive to complete its mission anyway is horrific, tragic, and pretty drat well realized. It starts off behaving in really mysterious horrific ways, and the story takes its time to soak in the terror of the unknown... but eventually there's a payoff and it all makes sense.


Season 2 of the TV show is going to be great if they fold the first two books together well. Caliban's War was pretty drat fantastic, with its chief flaw being that it kind of repeated a lot of the story beats of the first book. Smashing them together like they seem to be doing will (hopefully) work out great.

Eiba fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Sep 17, 2016

Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

Murty wasn't loyal to his corporation - he was loyal to his own dream of being the Big Man making Hard Choices. He was going to live that dream even if in real life he was a jumped up security guard and the hard choices weren't necessary. He's super believable to me - just think of any basement prepper who can't wait to gun down 'looters' come the apocalypse.

Marco makes sense politically. I just didn't like how easy everything seemed to him. All his rebels fell in line, Naomi was a chump until it was too late, and he stayed in smug control of everything the whole time (from the flashbacks, for his whole life even). No doubt it will be explained next novel that he was a sociopath and therefore had the magic ability to clown on everyone by not caring much about them :rolleyes:. Either that or his path was being cleared by like twenty different intelligence agencies who may or may not have thought he would actually push the button.

Captain Fargle
Feb 16, 2011

Strategic Tea posted:

Murty wasn't loyal to his corporation - he was loyal to his own dream of being the Big Man making Hard Choices. He was going to live that dream even if in real life he was a jumped up security guard and the hard choices weren't necessary. He's super believable to me - just think of any basement prepper who can't wait to gun down 'looters' come the apocalypse.

Marco makes sense politically. I just didn't like how easy everything seemed to him. All his rebels fell in line, Naomi was a chump until it was too late, and he stayed in smug control of everything the whole time (from the flashbacks, for his whole life even). No doubt it will be explained next novel that he was a sociopath and therefore had the magic ability to clown on everyone by not caring much about them :rolleyes:. Either that or his path was being cleared by like twenty different intelligence agencies who may or may not have thought he would actually push the button.

They made it pretty drat clear that Marco really isn't as clever as he thinks he is and the only reason he and Filip got anywhere was because Duarte, who has actual power, is using him as cover.

Captain Fargle fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Sep 17, 2016

Collateral
Feb 17, 2010

Captain Fargle posted:

They made it pretty drat clear that Marco really isn't as clever as he thinks he is and the only reason he and Filip got anywhere was because Duarte, who has actual power, is using him as cover.

Yeah, I was going to say, Marco was cover for the Mars military rebellion, whatever he believed. I think the Martians were surprised he dropped the hammer though.

Captain Fargle
Feb 16, 2011

Abraham and Frank announced today on Twitter that they've started the first draft of Book 8, apparently to be titled "Persepolis Rising".

Lord Hydronium
Sep 25, 2007

Non, je ne regrette rien


Captain Fargle posted:

Abraham and Frank announced today on Twitter that they've started the first draft of Book 8, apparently to be titled "Persepolis Rising".
8? Does 7 have a name yet?

Captain Fargle
Feb 16, 2011

Lord Hydronium posted:

8? Does 7 have a name yet?

7. Sorry. I miscounted. I keep thinking Babylon's Ashes is 7 for some reason.

Lord Hydronium
Sep 25, 2007

Non, je ne regrette rien


Ah, okay. Wasn't trying to nitpick, just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007


Reading too much into names time! Babylon's Ashes and Persepolis Rising are an interesting pair of names. Ancient cities with very different connotations. I had assumed Babylon's Ashes would be about the Earth, as the old center of culture and longest established human civilization was recently set on fire. If that were the case Persepolis Rising would be a contrasting vibrant new empire drawing from the same traditions- some sort of political resurgence of Earth. But that doesn't seem like the most natural plot arc, nor does it fit the connotations of "Persepolis" well.

Persepolis, the capital of the Persian Empire, has traditionally been the "other" in the Western tradition. The bad old decadent east invaded the good young individualist west in the Persian wars with the Greeks. If humanity is the Greeks, then perhaps the Persians are alien. Persepolis Rising would represent a massive ancient world going through an upheaval and then turning its attention to some bickering upstarts on its fringes. Perhaps the Aliens, or whatever destroyed them, will be the ones rising. If that's the case, perhaps Babylon's Ashes represent the ruins of the aliens, rather than Earth. Perhaps the destroyers fill in for the Persians having destroyed and then taken over the realm of the aliens/Babylonians. (The Persians didn't destroy Babylon, but we're being poetic here.)

Though I suppose Persepolis can be both Earth and The Other if we're viewing these things from the perspective of Belters/Frontier people. That would be a neat twist.

One thing that I don't think would be rising in a book called Persepolis Rising would be anything significantly new. Not a Belter/Frontier state, nor the rogue Martian military. At least that would go against what I feel the connotations of Persepolis are. The authors could be poetic to the point of nonsense, as they have been in the past. (I still don't really get Caliban's War as a title, though know who Caliban is and I read up on what it could mean.)

Obviously I could be 100% off base here, but it's fun to speculate. Personally I hope the story continues to be exclusively about humans. The aliens have been done well so far, but I like how they're dead and they pretty much just provide a stage for a human drama to play out.

Captain Fargle
Feb 16, 2011

Eiba posted:

Reading too much into names time! Babylon's Ashes and Persepolis Rising are an interesting pair of names. Ancient cities with very different connotations. I had assumed Babylon's Ashes would be about the Earth, as the old center of culture and longest established human civilization was recently set on fire. If that were the case Persepolis Rising would be a contrasting vibrant new empire drawing from the same traditions- some sort of political resurgence of Earth. But that doesn't seem like the most natural plot arc, nor does it fit the connotations of "Persepolis" well.

Persepolis, the capital of the Persian Empire, has traditionally been the "other" in the Western tradition. The bad old decadent east invaded the good young individualist west in the Persian wars with the Greeks. If humanity is the Greeks, then perhaps the Persians are alien. Persepolis Rising would represent a massive ancient world going through an upheaval and then turning its attention to some bickering upstarts on its fringes. Perhaps the Aliens, or whatever destroyed them, will be the ones rising. If that's the case, perhaps Babylon's Ashes represent the ruins of the aliens, rather than Earth. Perhaps the destroyers fill in for the Persians having destroyed and then taken over the realm of the aliens/Babylonians. (The Persians didn't destroy Babylon, but we're being poetic here.)

Though I suppose Persepolis can be both Earth and The Other if we're viewing these things from the perspective of Belters/Frontier people. That would be a neat twist.

One thing that I don't think would be rising in a book called Persepolis Rising would be anything significantly new. Not a Belter/Frontier state, nor the rogue Martian military. At least that would go against what I feel the connotations of Persepolis are. The authors could be poetic to the point of nonsense, as they have been in the past. (I still don't really get Caliban's War as a title, though know who Caliban is and I read up on what it could mean.)

Obviously I could be 100% off base here, but it's fun to speculate. Personally I hope the story continues to be exclusively about humans. The aliens have been done well so far, but I like how they're dead and they pretty much just provide a stage for a human drama to play out.

I made the joke on Twitter that the next book after it is gonna be called Alexander's Wrath. :D

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

as a person who never leaves my house i've done pretty well for myself.
“Dandelion Sky” was a great name and they should have stuck to it.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007


Captain Fargle posted:

I made the joke on Twitter that the next book after it is gonna be called Alexander's Wrath. :D
Haha, that'd be good. Also good: something to do with Sparta. It would be about Mars.

Platystemon posted:

“Dandelion Sky” was a great name and they should have stuck to it.
Yeah, it was really the best, especially compared to the generic title we got. I mean, I appreciate that all the other titles are allusions, but Dandelion Sky was just too good. They could have had one be different.

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]
This is a loving fantastic series based just on the world building alone. It takes an intelligent, well thought through, conception of both what near future science could do in terms of human habitation of the solar system, and the sociological implications of a human diaspora.

The Expanse universe is right up there with Eclipse Phase and Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy when it comes to seriously examining the human response to near future exploitation of the broader solar system.

Strategic Tea posted:

Good news, she's out of prison and ready to kick rear end for book 6!

I do think the authors have some weird kind of anti-worship for nasty people, where they call them psychopaths and make them able to effortlessly clown on everyone around them at all times. Which is strange after they did Amos so well...

Nah, the authors are trying to give you some pretty straight forward human archetypes, then humanize the ones you would normally not identify so that you can see that everyone can be redeemed--even the monsters.

Having them as protagonists really makes what he's doing seem like a much more sophisticated, nuanced, and realistic version of Lucas's Vader narrative in Star Wars.

Edit

The movie Downfall is interesting, not just because of the memes it created, but because it sort of does this (minus the redemption) with Hitler. It turns Hitler from the abstract incarnation of evil, into a human being who has lost everything. Someone you might actually have pity for while watching the film.

This is why the film was so controversial. Not because it was apologizing for Hitler, or glorifying the Nazi past, but because it turned Adolf Hitler into a man.

ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Oct 3, 2016

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ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]

Eiba posted:

Name speculation

The thing about the Oriental-Other is that it is what unifies the Occidental-Self through negative reflection. In other words, we know that the West is free, rational, and future facing because the Orient is the tyrannical, decadent, and stuck in the past.

So if you want to think about the book titles in terms of Orientalism, I think it is much more likely that the Occident remains all of humanity--Earth, Mars, the Belt, etc.--while the Other is some yet as unknown or hinted at force. Thus, humanity gains unity through its mirror image found in the Other.

You need not actually have an Other to create an Other. The Aliens already hinted at, for example, could remain dead but the things that transmit their culture through time--their machines, their art, their weapons, the proto-molecule, etc.--can be enough for humanity to create a unifying narrative of Otherness.

Here is the thing though, the Other is created by the Occident and does not necessarily reflect any "truth" about the Other. Truth is ambivalent to both the Occident and the Orient so long as the narrative of Otherness can be spun, and it always can be spun.

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