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Eiba posted:Was it explicitly aliens? If so, I would be disappointed and my poor memory is probably trying to protect me. In Abaddons Gate they establish that the protomolecule nuked it's own stars in a last ditch attempt to win a war. It's pretty explicitly just bigger, badder aliens of some variety. Edit: oh, and I'm only just finishing Cibola Burn so I've no spoilers about BA I promise. PriorMarcus fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Dec 4, 2016 |
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Dec 4, 2016 22:53
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In CB, they mention something along the lines of the null zone on the planet being a bullet from a headshot weapon.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:10
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Elvi is such a colossal dork that i can't even stay annoyed with her.
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Dec 5, 2016 00:16
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Isn't the supernova thing described as like trying to cut off an infected limb? Like they are afflicted with something and bombing the affected systems has the effect of stopping the spread? But it doesn't work. I'm sure they just sublimed or something equally unsatisfactory.
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Dec 5, 2016 00:51
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Collateral posted:Miller mentions it several times as the entire purpose of the investigator. Plus the eldritched eye of an angry god thing. Not really. You're left to infer that. It's "something," for sure. Something that "made" that evil eye. It's probably aliens, but Miller never is like "yep, it's this other alien species." *edit Corrected a phone posting mistake that made this post read really weird. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 04:11
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Yeah, I thought it might be some internal faction, or like some infectious malfunction of their mega-engineering projects.
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Dec 5, 2016 04:14
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Given the ending of Nemesis Games, however, it might not be an alien species exactly.
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Dec 5, 2016 04:24
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lol Ty Franck began developing the world of The Expanse as an idea for a massively multiplayer online role-playing game. After a number of years the idea shifted to become the setting for a tabletop game. Abraham, who had already written several books on his own at this point, noticed the depth of the world that Franck had created and thought they should make a book series out of it: "People who write books don't do this much research."
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Dec 5, 2016 10:55
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A human heart posted:lol Ty Franck began developing the world of The Expanse as an idea for a massively multiplayer online role-playing game. After a number of years the idea shifted to become the setting for a tabletop game. Abraham, who had already written several books on his own at this point, noticed the depth of the world that Franck had created and thought they should make a book series out of it: "People who write books don't do this much research." I've heard it wasn't a tabletop game, not initially. It was a play-by-post online RP game with Holden, Amos, Alex, Naomi and Shed all being player characters.
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Dec 5, 2016 12:49
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Shed must've had the worst dice.
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Dec 5, 2016 13:22
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A human heart posted:lol Ty Franck began developing the world of The Expanse as an idea for a massively multiplayer online role-playing game. After a number of years the idea shifted to become the setting for a tabletop game. Abraham, who had already written several books on his own at this point, noticed the depth of the world that Franck had created and thought they should make a book series out of it: "People who write books don't do this much research." I'm not surprised. The setting reminds me a lot of Eclipse Phase. I mean there are a lot of differences, since the Expanse only hints at the transhumanist; however, they're both the same in that they seriously tackle the sociological implications of a near future pan-solar system humanity. Edit. A long time ago I hade this idea about live play podcasts and turning tabletop rpgs into improvised participatory fiction. Nothing happened with that, of course. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 16:39
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It's no Expanse, but IIRC the majority of the Dragonlance D&D novels' story was also based heavily on peoples' actual pen & paper campaigns. Sounds like friends-around-table style roleplaying is fertile ground for novel-length stories. Signed, Oh God Next Book Out Real Soon, Haven't Reread Nemesis Games As Planned, Ugh
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Dec 5, 2016 20:45
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Milky Moor posted:I've heard it wasn't a tabletop game, not initially. It was a play-by-post online RP game with Holden, Amos, Alex, Naomi and Shed all being player characters. Apparently Naomi's character was originally a lesbian, and they were griping about her relationship with Holden.
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Dec 5, 2016 20:51
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bitprophet posted:It's no Expanse, but IIRC the majority of the Dragonlance D&D novels' story was also based heavily on peoples' actual pen & paper campaigns. Sounds like friends-around-table style roleplaying is fertile ground for novel-length stories. I'm pretty sure the Forgotten Realms stuff with Drizzt and friends started that way too. I guess it makes sense. Having the setting largely worked out has to help, anyway.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:29
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Toast Museum posted:I'm pretty sure the Forgotten Realms stuff with Drizzt and friends started that way too. I guess it makes sense. Having the setting largely worked out has to help, anyway. The Drizzt novels were not based off of RPG characters, however the Chrystal Shard (first Drizzt book written) was originally going to have Wulfgar has the main character. He decided to switch to Drizzt as the main character about half way through writing the book. The Chronicles Trilogy for Dragonlance was based off of people D&D characters. The character Raistlin was based off of a guy who showed up to the session in black robes talking all raspy and poo poo.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:53
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Milky Moor posted:I've heard it wasn't a tabletop game, not initially. It was a play-by-post online RP game with Holden, Amos, Alex, Naomi and Shed all being player characters. wow that's a lot better
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Dec 6, 2016 05:15
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Hey amazon, it's 12:42 where's my fuckin book
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Dec 6, 2016 06:42
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I know, I was really disappointed too. I guess they release when it's midnight in California?
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Dec 6, 2016 07:01
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Also on the fantasy side of the aisle, the Malazan series started out as the setting for the authors' RPG campaign. Apparently the player characters were the bunch who ended up founding the eponymous empire (when they show up in the books they're largely portrayed as weirdos and assholes).
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Dec 6, 2016 07:24
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TsarZiedonis posted:I know, I was really disappointed too. I guess they release when it's midnight in California? More like Washington, but same thing.
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Dec 6, 2016 07:42
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meanolmrcloud posted:Hey amazon, it's 12:42 where's my fuckin book Yeeeeah now I'm regretting waiting up this late...
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Dec 6, 2016 07:46
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Well while we're waiting, maybe I'll stir up some poo poo. Abaddon's Gate was my favorite book so far, and I think Bull was the best perspective character* *after avasarala, of course
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Dec 6, 2016 07:54
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Amos > Bull
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Dec 6, 2016 07:56
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Platystemon posted:Amos > Bull Two sides of the same coin, my man. Edit: though I will say that Bull got smashed, and Amos is invincible. Belbos Computer fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Dec 6, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 07:59
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Reading BA and I'm confused about the status of the Martian navy. It's stated that 1/5th of it flew off through the gate, but why about the other 4/5th? They talk about Mars like the whole navy is gone. Also, I don't get the direction they are going with Mars. I think the idea that the gates, and the risk they represent, would not account for a total depopulation of the planet. It's actually pretty hard to get people with comfortable lives to immigrate to frontier conditions. Yes, a lot of people might leave, but they make it sound like 2/3rds of the people on the planet just gave up their lives, careers, connection to family, and headed for the gates because "no domes." Edit Holy loving poo poo Fred was one of my favorite characters. Didn't see that coming. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 22:00
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ZombieLenin posted:Reading BA and I'm confused about the status of the Martian navy. It's stated that 1/5th of it flew off through the gate, but why about the other 4/5th? They talk about Mars like the whole navy is gone. It's not that the entire population is leaving. They mention that it's something like nine or ten percent. The problem is that it's such a significant chunk of their tax base and working age population that the Martian economy is dropping through the loving floor.
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Dec 8, 2016 02:48
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ZombieLenin posted:Reading BA and I'm confused about the status of the Martian navy. It's stated that 1/5th of it flew off through the gate, but why about the other 4/5th? They talk about Mars like the whole navy is gone. It wasn't just the fifth or whatever hosed off through the gates and got eaten. It's implied at least that Duarte had some ships with him from the initial expedition to Laconia or whatever, plus everything they sold to Marco's band of maniacs. I don't think specifics are ever given but it's probably closer to half the fleet
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Dec 8, 2016 03:06
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They keep talking about the death of the terraforming project on Mars. I just can't imagine a real life scenario or analog where a place would lose such a large portion of the population to emigration. Even during the greatest wave of immigration from Europe to the United States--which occurred after the United States was a fully industrialized non-frontier country--there wasn't 10% of the continents population emigrating.
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Dec 8, 2016 17:44
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ZombieLenin posted:They keep talking about the death of the terraforming project on Mars. I just can't imagine a real life scenario or analog where a place would lose such a large portion of the population to emigration. Even during the greatest wave of immigration from Europe to the United States--which occurred after the United States was a fully industrialized non-frontier country--there wasn't 10% of the continents population emigrating. That scenario didn't involve Europe being a place where going outdoors kills you in a very painful fashion.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:49
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Yeah I think the point was that they could go settle a new, empty, habitable world by just building a house instead of trying to terraform the planet. It was more about ease and quality of life than anything else. I do think in this scenario Mars would still play an important role as a staging ground for trips through the gate, but that wouldn't require the same amount of laborers as a terraforming project. I can't remember if they talk about that at all or if it was just all just doom and gloom and people whining about the Martian economy. edit: Is there a reason we're all spoilering stuff that happened in the previous books? I'm fine with doing it if it's just a courtesy or whatever, but is there a rule about when stuff doesn't need spoiler tags anymore like in the TV IV forum? Inspector 34 fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 21:30
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drat, I was really hoping we'd find out what was going on with the Martians at Lacoste... and what was eating the ships going through the gates.
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Dec 9, 2016 12:14
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TsarZiedonis posted:drat, I was really hoping we'd find out what was going on with the Martians at Lacoste... and what was eating the ships going through the gates. BA + Speculation: They sorta did explain the disappearing ships and Laconia. The gates can only handle a certain amount of mass when transporting to the slow zone and the rest get vaporized. The second alien race that killed the protomolecule creators seem to have some sort of influence in that dimension or whatever though. Laconia/Duarte are being set up as the next big bad and pretty clearly have the last protomolecule sample which they're using to engineer new tech. Also, anyone else think they've really set themselves up for a video game/mmo at this point, like they had originally planned? I wouldn't be surprised if one was in the works right now with where the plot is at.
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Dec 9, 2016 13:23
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Captain Fargle posted:That scenario didn't involve Europe being a place where going outdoors kills you in a very painful fashion. Yes, but you're talking about a group of people who have grown up in the condition of no outdoors, so who the gently caress cares? There needs to be an economic reason to get people in a diaspora. People in an economically stable environment, with work and food (as long as it makes for a comfortable life) are not going to, to the tune of 10% of the population, move to a frontier, where there is no guarantee of a comfortable life and it is, in fact, dangerous. If anything in this universe I would expect people to be leaving Earth because it's overcrowded, it's resources are at their extreme limits, and "basic" (particularly when a large portion of this population does no work at all) seems kind of lovely. I would especially expect a large migration now that a quarter of the population is dying from having rocks dropped on the planet. What I wouldn't expect is the relatively wealthy Martians to abandon their lives, and the teraformers who have probably had generations of family working on the project, up and leave because they now get to go "outside" on planets that might eat off their face. Even the mass difference between Mars G and near Earth Gs should dissuade anyone who grew up on Mars from wanting to loving bother. Keep in mind Bobby trained in 1G as a Marine and comments, when she gets to Earth, how totally unprepared Martians would be to try to do anything long term in Earth gravity. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 16:19
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ZombieLenin posted:Yes, but you're talking about a group of people who have grown up in the condition of no outdoors, so who the gently caress cares? There needs to be an economic reason to get people in a diaspora. You are quite correct about the need for an economic reason but I think you miss the target just a little... during the late 19th/early 20th century, rather more than 10% of the population of Norway emigrated to the USA and they were by and large not driven out by complete misery and starvation. In fact the economy in Norway was not just stable but growing in prosperity during that time (it was then that we got industrialization properly underway thanks to abundant hydroelectric power). It was just that, for many people, it seemed that they could prosper even more by emigrating. And a lot of them were right about that. (Not everyone, though; something like 20% eventually came back, for various reasons.)
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Dec 9, 2016 16:43
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You guys didn't pick up on the constant pissy comments by Martians and Belters about Earthers not appreciating the earth. They have a massive envy complex, of course they want an earth-like planet of their own. Also I thought it was a lot more than an quarter of the population, more like 80%. There are nowhere near enough ships or resources outside of the gravity well to support 23 billion people. People of earth are hosed. I haven't read BA yet, did they limit the catastrophe?
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Dec 9, 2016 17:08
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Groke posted:You are quite correct about the need for an economic reason but I think you miss the target just a little... during the late 19th/early 20th century, rather more than 10% of the population of Norway emigrated to the USA and they were by and large not driven out by complete misery and starvation. In fact the economy in Norway was not just stable but growing in prosperity during that time (it was then that we got industrialization properly underway thanks to abundant hydroelectric power). It was just that, for many people, it seemed that they could prosper even more by emigrating. And a lot of them were right about that. (Not everyone, though; something like 20% eventually came back, for various reasons.) Sure, okay. But again you are taking about people migrating because of economic conditions to a boom economy. These people, by in large, were migrating to developed cities in the United States where they new a large number of industrial jobs were available. They were not migrating to the equivalent of Jamestown, which all of the gate world colonies would be. Even in the US gold rush, there was a gold boom and a bunch of people moving to California to strike it rich. It wasn't 10% of the population though, and they were moving to a place that had some infrastructure. This is why you never saw similar migration numbers in the Alaskan gold rush, because more people were like "gently caress that, Alaska is super loving dangerous." And again, with Mars we are talking about a wealthy population with a large middle class--the wealthiest inner planet (so the wealthiest of the wealthy countries). What's is being described in the books is akin to 10% of the American population up and moving to the moon the moment it's "open" to "colonization" or the loving desert of Mauritania now that they've opened it to gold prospecting. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 18:35
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ZombieLenin posted:And again, with Mars we are talking about a wealthy population with a large middle class--the wealthiest inner planet (so the wealthiest of the wealthy countries). What's is being described in the books is akin to 10% of the American population up and moving to the moon the moment it's "open" to "colonization" or the loving desert of Mauritania now that they've opened it to gold prospecting. No, it isn't. Mars is nothing like any of those situations. It's more like offering the crew members of Ascension the chance to teleport back to earth. Yeah I know they never left, but the situation is more comparable. It isn't those people with all the privilege that are leaving, it's the people at the bottom that are making up the bulk of emigres.
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Dec 9, 2016 20:31
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ZombieLenin posted:Sure, okay. But again you are taking about people migrating because of economic conditions to a boom economy. These people, by in large, were migrating to developed cities in the United States where they new a large number of industrial jobs were available. Mars isn't literally going to stop existing, people will still live there. But its whole drive, the whole core of its culture was the terraforming project. Motivated people on Mars worked on terraforming it. That was a goal that dominated everyone's life from birth to death. One of the short stories about Bobbie's cousin really drives home how entirely omnipresent the idea is in everyone's life. That's how it competed with the Earth despite having a fraction of its population and none of its biosphere. Now the terraforming project is pointless. Motivated people on Mars who want to make a new world... are going to have a much, much easier time through the gates. So they'll leave. And what will Mars be left with eventually? What type of people will remain to work on the terraforming project? And if not for the transforming project, why live on Mars? It's down a deep gravity well without any more resources than asteroids have. They're not all literally flying away this very second, but they can all see the writing on the wall. As a nation, they've lost their reason to exist. There is no parallel to anything in human history, because there's never been any sort of project-nation before. It'd be like if there was an island nation where everyone was working on a moon rocket- that was the whole point of living there. Scientists and engineers from around the world went there, and raised their kids to work on the project too, for generations. And then someone else discovers a magic portal to the moon. What's life going to be like on that island? Who cares if they're super rich and filled with the greatest infrastructure on Earth or whatever, it would destroy them. Edit: Inspector 34 posted:I do think in this scenario Mars would still play an important role as a staging ground for trips through the gate, but that wouldn't require the same amount of laborers as a terraforming project. I can't remember if they talk about that at all or if it was just all just doom and gloom and people whining about the Martian economy. It's full of a ton of smart people who know about biospheres but that's not going to last long if they all just... leave. And even if it finds a new niche as "university planet for biosphere experts" that's a long, long way down from the lofty mission it used to have of launching a thousand year project to recreate the loving Earth. Eiba fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Dec 10, 2016 |
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Dec 10, 2016 09:10
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I never understood how Belters could ever have an economy in this setting. Everything they do is based around cargo shipping, yet they suck at it. Why would you give your shipping contract to belters who have to burn at 0.5G or whatever, when you could get an Earther crew who can go at 1.2G? Also regarding Mars, my analogy is "Why keep your cult in England when the New World is discovered". mossyfisk fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Dec 10, 2016 |
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Dec 10, 2016 13:37
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mossyfisk posted:I never understood how Belters could ever have an economy in this setting. Everything they do is based around cargo shipping, yet they suck at it. Why would you give your shipping contract to belters who have to burn at 0.5G or whatever, when you could get an Earther crew who can go at 1.2G? Belters can burn at 1.2G, they just can't live for extended periods. There's also the drugs and such.
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Dec 10, 2016 13:51
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