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Most of Butcher of Anderson Station is condensed into the first episode Fred Johnson is in.
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Jan 2, 2022 05:36
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Nihonniboku posted:At a certain point they also began adapting novellas and incorporating them into the show. I've never read the novellas, but I'm pretty sure the first one they fully adapted was season 5 with Bobbi. "The Butcher of Anderson Station" (Fred Johnson's backstory), and "Drive" (the story of the invention of the Epstein Drive) were both just straight put into the show as part of the existing episodes.
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Jan 2, 2022 08:59
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I just finish LF. I felt it was a fine ending to the series and in line with the rest of the books. I’m feeling pretty glum about coming to the end with the book characters and knowing that in a couple weeks it will be the same with the show.
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Jan 2, 2022 18:46
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Double post, but I've been thinking about it since I finished, The Sins of the Father: Kit, Filip, or something completely different?
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Jan 2, 2022 23:17
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Holden's four dads reveal to him that, 80 years ago, they loaned Jules-Pierre Mao the money to start up his first business and cashed out right before the protogen thing hit the wall. Then they took all that money and invested it in developing stealth composites you could spray on an asteroid.
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Jan 3, 2022 05:20
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So I don't remember the books all that well. Correct me if I'm wrong, there wasn't an assault on the ring station with rail guns, correct? They had all the shipping containers go through the ring to be what cause the overload and Marco get taken out by the gods. Satisfying ending, Holden looked so loving good in that suit. We're definitely getting movies to do the final 3 books, right?
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Jan 15, 2022 05:03
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The assault still happened, right down to the rail gun stations getting destroyed instead of captured. The plan in was to grab the railguns and then when Marco flees into the ring space, just obliterate him.
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Jan 15, 2022 05:26
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Nihonniboku posted:So I don't remember the books all that well. Correct me if I'm wrong, there wasn't an assault on the ring station with rail guns, correct? They had all the shipping containers go through the ring to be what cause the overload and Marco get taken out by the gods. no. while the corey team has said there's still things happening it's likely referring to telltale games or things of that nature. they even said in regard to a clickbait rumor about incoming expanse movies that "they'd love to do more but no one has asked them yet"
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Jan 15, 2022 05:34
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The showrunner Naren Shankar is heavily hinting on social media that the show isn't done and "they're working on it"
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Jan 15, 2022 08:20
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Nihonniboku posted:We're definitely getting movies to do the final 3 books, right? Six seasons and a movie
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Jan 15, 2022 10:39
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CLAM DOWN posted:The showrunner Naren Shankar is heavily hinting on social media that the show isn't done and "they're working on it" Spending so much time with Strange Dogs is a bizarre choice if indeed there is no continuation.
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Jan 15, 2022 15:25
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Imagine if they'd done Auberon instead of strange dogs. Wow this planet smells!!
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Jan 15, 2022 16:19
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I know this is a completely unfair comparison but I just started Stanislaw Lem's Fiasco and the effort and imagination put into describing Titan, a planet that's not even the main setting for the story and just functions as prologue, really demonstrates how little effort and imagination went into The Expanses's alien worlds.
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Jan 15, 2022 17:10
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drewhead posted:Spending so much time with Strange Dogs is a bizarre choice if indeed there is no continuation. I sort of understand it. They were saved once before, it could happen again, so they walked a line between Series and Season Finale.
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Jan 16, 2022 13:58
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I don't mind the strange dogs stuff, it just seems like a poor choice of what to show to hint at Laconia behind the scenes. The whole point of the kids is that they don't age at all. If it takes even just a couple years to make the follow-up that's going to be a problem. They also have to hope that the guy they cast for Duarte will be available.
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Jan 16, 2022 17:29
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If it's a 30 year gap they could recast Duarte no problem. The kids, well, it wouldn't be the first time kids get recast.
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Jan 16, 2022 18:23
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Judging from the "you have 5 years to live!" medical scan thing they prob are only doing a 5 year gap. That way theres no need to recast anything or even do any old person makeup stuff
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Jan 17, 2022 01:35
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Gangringo posted:I don't mind the strange dogs stuff, it just seems like a poor choice of what to show to hint at Laconia behind the scenes. c'mon he's a canadian TV actor it's not like he won't be able to shuffle around filming rookie blue edit: so it's a five year gap but they also specifically cast singh as a little kid for one of the cold opens? weird
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Jan 17, 2022 01:36
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Nah, if there ever is a follow-up it will still be 30 years. It would explain why she is an absolute mess at that point (she is way past her expiration date and on borrowed time), and it's not that weird for people to outlive their diagnosis, especially when humanity is in the process of jumping way forward due to studying the alien technology.
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Jan 17, 2022 02:59
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IIRC she is on super borrowed time due to basically being attached to a military-grade autodoc whenever she isn't on active duty.
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Jan 17, 2022 03:05
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a five-year time gap would be stupid and they might as well have just not done it. the thirty-year gap at least gives you a generation of laconian born people who have no connection to the sol system.
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Jan 17, 2022 03:19
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I wonder if Cara and Xans parents had some more kids they fed into the fascist military machine.
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Jan 17, 2022 05:43
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Horizon Burning posted:a five-year time gap would be stupid and they might as well have just not done it. the thirty-year gap at least gives you a generation of laconian born people who have no connection to the sol system. Sure its stupid but lol if you think showrunners are gonna give a poo poo about faceless extras and their connection to sol vs having to recast 90% of the show with old people.
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Jan 17, 2022 06:28
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banned from Starbucks posted:Sure its stupid but lol if you think showrunners are gonna give a poo poo about faceless extras and their connection to sol vs having to recast 90% of the show with old people. just spray some of holden's hair grey and so on and so on, the books are all 'seventy is the new forty' or whatever about it anyway.
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Jan 17, 2022 09:25
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It may as well be a five year gap given how little they actually reference the passage of time. Joints are sore, the Roci is an older model but can still stand up to most ships, grey hair, etc
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Jan 17, 2022 10:46
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Just shotgunned the last three books over the past week or so, after being a regular show watcher. That may be influencing my reading (as a show watcher, or having read the three books in quick succession), but I definitely disagree with some of the takes on Holden, in particular, in the final book. (Final book end spoilers): He did strike me as appropriately broken, though that was visible more from other character PoVs than from his own. He was pushing things a lot harder than before, and until his decision to sacrifice himself he seemed pretty haunted across the course of the book. Naomi's take on this seemed supported to me, rather than being the authors telling us something that we hadn't witnessed ourselves. All that said, his final decision seemed entirely a Holden decision, and I took it as him looking beyond the little human trolley problem. It'd already been unclear whether Duarte was the motivating force behind the attempt to "unify" human consciousness, or whether that was the station. We'd learned enough about the builders to understand that they were, fundamentally, users, like parasitic organisms that can control other life forms and repurpose them for their own purposes. And their model of going deep for the "heat vent" or breaking through the ice maps onto the rings and ring station: the rings are the "breaking the ice" approach to link worlds together, but the station that powers it has dug deep into another universe to power everything, the "heat vent" approach. By the time Holden arrives at his solution to the problem of the gate entities, he has an important, if not fully articulated, understanding of what happened. And that is, quite simply, that the builders essentially broken into another universe and stole from it to generate power. It's unclear precisely what harm this does to the gate entities and their universe, whether this is merely painful or whether it is potentially deadly to them. But they are clearly quite angry about the intrusion or the theft or things related to it. I think Holden's moral standpoint at the end is only partly about protecting as much of humanity as possible from destruction: it's also about putting right a wrong done by the builders to the gate entities. In other words, the right thing was to shut down the gates and destroy the station so that the entities could have their universe back, because whatever harm the station had done and was doing to them, that was wrong. That millions of human beings might not survive the closure of the gates didn't change his calculus, but his equation wasn't simply taking humanity into account. Duarte and his ilk approach the situation from a military perspective. Holden's understanding evolves to that of healing an injury: "'They shut the rings down,' Jim said, 'but they kept the station. The slow zone. They left it all here so that they could come back to it. The Sol ring wouldn't have worked if the station hadn't been here for it to connect with. They put a bandage over it without getting the splinter out first.'" Notice that the injury is the injury done to the gate entities' universe by the station and the zone. He doesn't want to take up the builders' weapons and strike down the ring entities to win the war. He wants to address the damage the builders did, to heal the wound, even if it means millions of human beings could die. Because it's the right thing to do, the act of peace, restitution for a wrong even if humanity didn't commit that wrong. I can't think of much that's more Holden than that.
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Jan 30, 2022 05:02
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I agree with you entirely.
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Jan 30, 2022 06:34
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Narsham posted:ecause it's the right thing to do, the act of peace, restitution for a wrong even if humanity didn't commit that wrong. But, of course, after multiple books beating us over the head with the notion that the right thing to do, including the vast majority of the last book in which the decision is made, that the right thing to do is never to expediently sacrifice people to achieve an end, nor is the right thing to do ever for one person, or small group of people, to make decisions for all of humanity… So in the end, because Holden thinks it is the right call—despite literally saying to Miller he has “no idea” if it actually is the right call—Holden decides for all of humanity to sacrifice millions of people to achieve the end he wants, while making the decision all by himself.
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Jan 30, 2022 20:18
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What else was he going to do?
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Jan 30, 2022 23:12
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General Battuta posted:What else was he going to do? It really depends on how you interpret what happened at the end. The way I read it, he could have kept the status quo with the gate entities doing nothing once he realized how to use the station, he could have ‘beaten’ the gate entities if he made choice to turn humanity into a hive mind, or he could have shut everything down like he did. I did a longer write up somewhere up there about my problems with the ending, particularly after Amos was like we aren’t even going to let this girl communicate with the protomolecule maker library, because having all of humanity die is better than sacrificing one person… but sacrificing a couple million? That’s cool I guess” ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jan 30, 2022 |
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Jan 30, 2022 23:42
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There is no future for humanity with the gates. They couldn't "beat" the gate entities, but they could indefinitely stalemate them, but to do so they'd have to use the hive mind and it would not be humanity anymore. Also, there is no guarantee that the hive mind was not an idea implanted by the Builders in the first place, much like how "Julie" thought she was going home, but it was just a mechanism to navigate Eros to Earth. Holden had two lovely choices and minutes to pick one. You can agree or not agree with the option he choose, but trying to tactical realism a more optimal solution is pointless because there was no third option except letting the gate entities kill every human in the universe,
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Jan 31, 2022 00:01
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ZombieLenin posted:It really depends on how you interpret what happened at the end. The way I read it, he could have kept the status quo with the gate entities doing nothing once he realized how to use the station, he could have ‘beaten’ the gate entities if he made choice to turn humanity into a hive mind, or he could have shut everything down like he did. The gate entities had already figured out the formula to instantly kill all of humanity. They just weren't sure it had worked. They could have annihilated all human life at literally any second. Holden did not exactly have time to wait around and find out.
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Jan 31, 2022 01:09
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I remain unclear as to why the human hive mind would stalemate the gate entities. I mean, they annihilated the Builders and their hive mind and they have no problem with annihilating humanity (as mentioned, they're capable of it) so it seems like they're fine to win no matter what happens.
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Jan 31, 2022 03:03
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:I remain unclear as to why the human hive mind would stalemate the gate entities. I mean, they annihilated the Builders and their hive mind and they have no problem with annihilating humanity (as mentioned, they're capable of it) so it seems like they're fine to win no matter what happens. It seems pretty obvious. Humans are physical beings and not living data. The weapons the Builders created seem to hurt the substrate they lived on, but would not hurt human hardware. Once the human hivemind activates the weapons, the Gate Entities can no longer affect our reality and the hivemind would remain safe indefinitely (as long as they keep holding down the trigger of the gun).
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Jan 31, 2022 03:14
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ZombieLenin posted:It really depends on how you interpret what happened at the end. The way I read it, he could have kept the status quo with the gate entities doing nothing once he realized how to use the station, he could have ‘beaten’ the gate entities if he made choice to turn humanity into a hive mind, or he could have shut everything down like he did. The first you say wasn't an option, he was only holding temporarily quote:It pushed, but he could hold it. The lines were in their places now, stable in a way that took less effort to hold in place until the ancient enemy rallied again. He felt it slithering against the slow zone, a black snake larger than suns. quote:“Just give me a little loving time,” Holden said, but if the enemy could hear him, it ignored him. Holden redoubled his efforts, and slowly, reluctantly, the invisible tentacle retracted into its own universe and left him spent and exhausted. If an attack came again, he wouldn’t be able to stop it.
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Jan 31, 2022 04:11
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Also finished the books recently and just wanted to swing by to highlight a chapter in Tiamat's Wrath, where Holden describes being a prisoner on Laconia and how his daily routine involves socializing with everybody and being nice framed in explicitly transactional, "I need these guards to hesitate for a fraction of a second to shoot me if they think of me as human" terms. That kind of desperation really resonated with me. Obviously it's an extreme situation, but it often feels like in smaller ways we're all confronted with this kind of pressure to instrumentalize our social relationships. Economic precarity, unhealthy home lives, anyone who's been under the thumb of a boss or a family relation has felt that tug. "Work Friends" as a social category are almost defined by that ambiguity. There've definitely been times in my life where I felt like I was hanging on by the fingernails of my good social standing with people more important than me, and I can imagine that feeling intensifying to the point of trauma in a situation like Holden's. The chapter read like a balancing act between someone trying to exert what tiny influence he could in an untenable situation, knowing how little influence giving your jailers a cup of coffee might have but still doing it to assert at least some control over your situation, and at the same time recognizing how caustic this mindset is to your sense of social connection to other people. I'm not really caught up on the Discourse surrounding the books and how Holden's generally read in those last three books, but I thought this bit really works.
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Feb 4, 2022 20:30
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The Holden stuff on Laconia is some of my favorite material in the entire series. The stuff from his perspective is really great, but I also enjoyed the way it was juxtaposed with how Teresa saw the same place.
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Feb 4, 2022 20:40
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Hey I finally got around to reading the last book! It was good, I found it a satisfying ending, handled the characters well, and I dug the epilogue as well. Here's hoping they get to make a few movies, it would be wild to see the last 3 books on screen.
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Feb 7, 2022 18:26
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Man these books are really kind of wack if you think about them.. Remember when Duarte had dragonball Z powers and he could kamehama Cortezar into pixels with the power of his love for his daughter? But then he just forgets about it. Why didn't he use his matter dissolving powers when he was being attacked in his sphere throne, instead of using a bunch of ineffective robo zerglings? Does it only work if you're in a coma trance where you can see the pixels of reality? I guess so. It's kind of a weird thing to let your villain do as a one-off. This is a cool read, and fits with the Expanse's general vibe of "let's investigate this everyday thing and make a big deal of it, to mixed effect."
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Feb 25, 2022 16:50
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General Battuta posted:Man these books are really kind of wack if you think about them.. I thought that Duarte did try to dissolve them, but Holden was able to protect everyone with his Proto powers. There’s a part that describes Theresa floating and feeling a burning sensation until she is grabbed by Holden.
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Feb 25, 2022 20:58
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