|
A human heart posted:You'd punch someone for posting a joke on a web site? It depends on the joke. I can't think of one that would literally make me want to punch someone in the throat; however, I do not feel comfortable ruling out of the realm of possibility that someone could come up with such a joke, then post it. So... maybe?
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2016 23:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 02:32 |
|
|
I recently moved so my commute to work got a lot longer, and I've started using Audible to cope. Naturally I decided to get the audiobooks of the series, and was pleasantly surprised to find that I get a deep discount for already owning the Kindle versions. Jefferson Mays is a pretty good narrator. But after tackling the novellas a little early, I'm not looking forward to having Erik Davies read the entirety of the fourth book to me. His voices are good, but too cartoony--they sound like they belong in an anime dub.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2017 12:40
|
|
|
Double posting because speaking of the loving devil: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheExpanse/comments/5lu9ag/jefferson_mays_to_rerecord_cibola_burn_audiobook/
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2017 22:10
|
|
|
ZombieLenin posted:
Babylon's Ashes was just tonally off. It pushes for themes of forgiveness and reconciliation in the midst of mundicide. When Holden rolls his eyes and was about to scold his dad for making a racist comment and when he disarmed the torpedos against Marco I wanted to put the book down. It gave me Abbadon's Gate vibes all over.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 02:33
|
|
|
Holden would have spared Hitler for Eva Braun’s sake.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 02:36
|
|
|
404notfound posted:Double posting because speaking of the loving devil: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheExpanse/comments/5lu9ag/jefferson_mays_to_rerecord_cibola_burn_audiobook/ I don't think Jeff can save Elvi
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 02:37
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:Holden would have spared Hitler for Eva Braun’s sake. He would tell a jew about to be sent into the oven that not all Germans are bad.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 02:38
|
|
|
gohmak posted:He would tell a jew about to be sent into the oven that not all Germans are bad. Platystemon posted:Killing every belter would still only be like one half of one percent as bad as what Marco did. In proportional terms, it would be like bombing Bielefeld (a city small enough that there’s a popular joke that it does not exist) to kill Hitler and prevent the War. I’m not saying it’s the Right Thing to Do, but it would have wild popular support and I can’t blame them. Not in a universe where Michio “butcher of New York” Pa is a Good Guy™ and Chrisjen “turn the other cheek” Avasarala is “Machiavellian”. Letting Pa lead the spacing guild is like letting Göring lead the Marshall Plan. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Jan 4, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 03:13
|
|
|
404notfound posted:Double posting because speaking of the loving devil: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheExpanse/comments/5lu9ag/jefferson_mays_to_rerecord_cibola_burn_audiobook/ Well drat if this isn't some fantastic news! It'll be nice to have the whole series properly done.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 03:53
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:In proportional terms, it would be like bombing Bielefeld (a city small enough that there’s a popular joke that it does not exist) to kill Hitler and prevent the War. Its like Operation Paperclip and Unit 731 amnesty without medical and technological payoffs.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 04:55
|
|
|
The compromise to “give amnesty and high office to space Göring” and “kill all Belters” is “heavily restrict spaceflight in the Sol system”. It effectively exiles Belters or at least puts them under house arrest (on stations or moons that are mostly self‐sufficient), but that is 100% justified given the loss of life that would result from a single additional meteor strike.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 05:04
|
|
|
This is a spot on review from Goodreadsquote:Two stars is not awful, but it's a definite step down from the ratings I gave to earlier books in the series like Cibola Burn and Nemesis Games. So was this book, sadly. It's not bad, but it's not nearly as good as I was hoping for. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/1834502520?book_show_action=true&from_review_page=1
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 05:21
|
|
|
gohmak posted:This is a spot on review from Goodreads I can't tell if you are being serious or not.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 06:11
|
|
|
I'm digging the first point. Like, Marko's grand plan was basically: 1. Throw rocks at Earth. 2. ????? 3. Belter supremacy w/ magical self-sustaining economy. He got in a good apocalyptic sucker punch and that's it. Marko is lame, yes. The book spends a lot of time having various characters come to terms with the fact that Marco had no plans and was preoccupied with his lover's new boyfriend. He had goals and no real care to actually achieving them.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 06:57
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:I'm digging the first point. I forget the name of the economist guy, but he was basically my favorite character on that side. He kept undercutting Marco's theatrics, but at the start he was right behind him with a plan. A plan that required them to get building right away. Once it became clear that Marco had his hands full fighting a war (that Earth wouldn't have been able to wage, were it not for the Rocinante taking out that one control ship, it seems), he became super agitated about the lack of infrastructure inevitably leading to belters starving, and smuggled himself out in crates to have secret meetings with Michio Pa and so on. He was basically the Sim City guy saying, "You can't cut back on infrastructure spending! You will regret this!" but with an incredibly compelling point. The other thing I disagree with that review about really strongly is the idea that "tribalism is bad" is somehow a juvenile message. Like, yeah, we teach our children this... because it's really important. And it's not at all natural for us. Tribalism is how we're built. Us vs. them is our default mindset. We need something like a society to teach and pressure us to resist it (or to expand our "tribe" to all of humanity). It's a message that's very difficult to get across without coming across as naive or overly simplistic, so I respect any solid attempt at really getting at what this message means. And Babylon's Ashes, though it had major tonal problems with how people reacted to the attack on Earth, did a pretty respectable job on this theme. The guy even says his favorite part is Prax's story, and he's right, that's the strongest part of the book- in part because it's the payoff for Holden's silly, earnest, naive, hopeful media campaign. The turning point for Prax is watching Holden's video, and others like it. Prax was the perfect stand-in for the type of person who doesn't want to get involved. He had a lot to lose, he was doing pretty good work anyway. There's no reason for him to get involved. If you care about his story, and you care about how brave his actions were, all the more so because he himself is not inherently brave, then you can appreciate the "let's all get along/tribalism is bad" "childish" message of this book. That said... It would have been more plausible and more powerful if people on the Earth were out for blood. Or if the not-so-bad people in the Belt were more aghast at what happened to the Earth. I can only imagine this is somehow setting up meaningful human conflict in future books where individuals and smaller organizations loving hate Belters (in a very active way and not the "who cares, gently caress 'em" attitude that used to prevail) for their collective guilt in the greatest crime in human history by several orders of magnitude.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 07:31
|
|
|
quote:The long-term solution to this problem is also rather not (a solution, that is.) Holden decides to give the Belters complete and total authority over all the rest of humanity, with basically total veto rights on which colonies live and which starve to death. Because, hey, turning over the fate of earth-dwelling humans to an unaccountable assortment of terrorists who are only marginally guilty for an atrocity so immense and scope that all other mass-murders pale before it might not actually be the wisest course of action. But hey, what do I know? When did he give the belt total authority over humanity? Belters are still heavily reliant on resources from Earth and soon the colonies and now they are being given a way to continue trading for those resources, on a more equal footing thanks to Holden, by providing shipping services between earth and those colonies. If they just let colonies starve, where are they going to get those resources now? And its not like Earth and Mars are getting rid of their military and ships, I'm sure they'll still be patrolling and policing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 08:26
|
|
|
Blackchamber posted:I can't tell if you are being serious or not. Point #4 is well made and articulated a lot of vague opinions I had about the huge tonal disconnect I had with the 15 billion deaths and ruin of humanities's cradle. On the other hand, I can see people not really comprehending number of deaths beyond 180 in a far of place that at the minimum aggressively don't care about because we are not really built that way. It is why aid agencies focus on individual tragedies to drum up support for relief of mass casualty events.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 08:46
|
|
|
Grimwall posted:Point #4 is well made and articulated a lot of vague opinions I had about the huge tonal disconnect I had with the 15 billion deaths and ruin of humanities's cradle. When Mars got rid of their PM because he failed to stop Duarte I thought they were foreshadowing a backlash against Avasarala. The book had no character that acts as a conduit of Earths grief. The next book really needs to realistically address the repercussions. Another novel that has the theme of Earths destruction being the catalyst for humanity populating the stars is Dan Simons Hyperion.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 16:21
|
|
|
There definitely is some truth to the critiques leveled by that review. Particularly when it came to the political ramifications of the conflict. No way anyone associated with the free navy isn't hunted down and brought to trial. Minimum. And realistically speaking the war would have ended a lot different, and the belt would be lucky if it were not completely destroyed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 17:53
|
|
|
ZombieLenin posted:No way anyone associated with the free navy isn't hunted down and brought to trial. Minimum. Or torn to pieces by *other Belters*.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 20:36
|
|
|
Here's something I missed (or wasn't addressed): what do Marco and his buddies think Duarte is getting out of their arrangement? We know that Duarte is taking a page from the Protogen playbook and just needs the Free Navy to distract everyone, but what does Marco understand the terms of their trade to be? Duarte handed over, what, 10–20 brand new Martian warships, right? Did Marco think he'd just bought Manhattan for beads, or what?
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 21:02
|
|
|
Toast Museum posted:Here's something I missed (or wasn't addressed): what do Marco and his buddies think Duarte is getting out of their arrangement? We know that Duarte is taking a page from the Protogen playbook and just needs the Free Navy to distract everyone, but what does Marco understand the terms of their trade to be? Duarte handed over, what, 10–20 brand new Martian warships, right? Did Marco think he'd just bought Manhattan for beads, or what? They delivered him the protomolecule from Fred Johnsons office in exchange for the ships. They think he is running tests and will return with new weapons and tech to share. gohmak fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Jan 4, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 22:29
|
|
|
gohmak posted:They delivered him the protomolecule from Fred Johnsons office in exchange for the ships. They think he is running tests and will return with new weapons and tech to share. Okay, that makes sense. I misremembered the protomolecule snatch as Duarte's work.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 22:52
|
|
|
He's gonna roll through the gate with a fleet full of whatever the equivalent will be of the Earth destroyers with bolted on Shadow tech from that one episode of Babylon 5.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2017 23:42
|
|
|
The Muffinlord posted:He's gonna roll through the gate with a fleet full of whatever the equivalent will be of the Earth destroyers with bolted on Shadow tech from that one episode of Babylon 5. With some kind of inertia reducing tech. Or some other game changer. Maybe they will just enforce their border and set up a non aggressive government. I suspect they are growing mustaches for the purposes of villainous twirling.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 00:43
|
|
|
Speaking of that meeting at the end. If Miller were alive I could see Holden point to nominate Pa and Miller putting a bullet in her head.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 01:49
|
|
|
There are aliens behind the Laconia gate.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 02:01
|
|
|
ZombieLenin posted:There definitely is some truth to the critiques leveled by that review. Particularly when it came to the political ramifications of the conflict. Since most of the fresh water on Earth is probably full of garbage now and the economy of the entire planet is in tatters it might be a smart idea to NOT destroy and depopulate the area where people live and work to ship water and resources back to the Earth. The big game changer for Mars was the gates crashing their economic base via mass exodus, for Earth it was the rocks destroying infrastructure and population. Realistically speaking Mars and Earth can't really do poo poo against the Belt without loving themselves. Each faction in the solar system is now far more interdependent than they were before and not a one can survive solely on their own or dictate terms like before.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 20:33
|
|
|
Na'at posted:Since most of the fresh water on Earth is probably full of garbage now and the economy of the entire planet is in tatters it might be a smart idea to NOT destroy and depopulate the area where people live and work to ship water and resources back to the Earth. The big game changer for Mars was the gates crashing their economic base via mass exodus, for Earth it was the rocks destroying infrastructure and population. Realistically speaking Mars and Earth can't really do poo poo against the Belt without loving themselves. Each faction in the solar system is now far more interdependent than they were before and not a one can survive solely on their own or dictate terms like before. First of all, people (including governments) don't think very rationally when it comes to things like "you just killed half the people on earth." Humans are not always purely rational beings. Think about American reaction to 9/11 and multiply it times billion. I mean, think about the belt destroying the place that produces everything they need to survive, from equipment to food. Second of all, in a calculus of total war this is all the more reason for Earth to seize access to the people and infrastructure necessary to provide water. If 20 million belters die in the process who cares. I don't actually think you'd see a real life "ethnic cleansing" of the belt, just a war in which the destruction of a large part of the belts population is acceptable, followed by a less than pleasant "occupational" period. Of course the war itself probably would result in some retaliation with WMDs, but the earthers wounding kill everyone in the belt. Edit Probably. Then again, you might actually see a more controlled government collapse and end up with Nazis. There is historical president who see the war with the belt as a war of extermination. Kill all the belters and belter culture and replace them with good humans from Earth. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jan 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2017 22:36
|
|
|
I find it hard to believe that martians can leave mars faster than new martians are made. The trip takes months, and there are at most a few thousand ships making it, holding maybe 100 each, and there are many millions of martians, so they should have at most a slight decline in population unless they never screw.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 03:05
|
|
|
Mars = space Japan
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 03:11
|
|
|
One thing they never mention in the books or show is that the Martian flag is literally 100% the same as the current Japanese flag.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 03:22
|
|
|
Bozart posted:I find it hard to believe that martians can leave mars faster than new martians are made. The trip takes months, and there are at most a few thousand ships making it, holding maybe 100 each, and there are many millions of martians, so they should have at most a slight decline in population unless they never screw. I think the larger ships carry upwards of a couple thousand, but yeah, with four billion people on Mars, the 10% drop in population that Alex saw doesn't make much sense. I get the impression that the colonies so far aren't much bigger than the one on New Terra, but even if you spread 10% of Mars across every single gate, you're still looking at over 36,000 people per system. It didn't sound like any colony had that many settlers, let alone all of them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 03:27
|
|
|
The Expanse:sci-fi geography::A Song of Ice and Fire:fantasy geography
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 03:30
|
|
|
Alex and Bobbie are definitely among the few Martians that gently caress
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 04:18
|
|
|
Given the cost associated with securing berth on a colony ship, and the ridiculous attrition rate of ships dying to Free Navy or not successfully making their jumps (not counting colony destruction by other means while they make planetfall), I'd question how Mars could depopulate itself through emigration that quickly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 04:51
|
|
|
You contribute nothing to this thread and many others in The Book Barn. I contributed to your posting by replying, and as a result I am an idiot. But seriously, dude, do you really get any satisfaction by making GBS threads up the Expansion, Sci Fi, Warhammer 40k and more threads? Lord, save me from Lum avatars.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 08:35
|
|
Jew it to it! posted:You contribute nothing to this thread and many others in The Book Barn. I contributed to your posting by replying, and as a result I am an idiot. But seriously, dude, do you really get any satisfaction by making GBS threads up the Expansion, Sci Fi, Warhammer 40k and more threads? Lord, save me from Lum avatars. I don't know what this is but I'm quoting it.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 08:41
|
|
|
Jew it to it! posted:You contribute nothing to this thread and many others in The Book Barn. I contributed to your posting by replying, and as a result I am an idiot. But seriously, dude, do you really get any satisfaction by making GBS threads up the Expansion, Sci Fi, Warhammer 40k and more threads? Lord, save me from Lum avatars. Did you forget to hit next page?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 15:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 02:32 |
|
|
I read the last couple pages completely loving confused and then I realized "oh, idiot, the new book came out last month."  I just wanted to say that this: quote:Marko is the bad guy. In the last book, he destroyed the Earth and killed 15,000,000,000 human beings. In this book, he is the world's least competent military commander and basically just an insecure, loser ex-boyfriend. He doesn't have a single tactical insight, he has literally no strategy, he loses every single engagement, he spends quite a lot of time hiding out in his cabin because he can't deal with his own failures, and in the climactic final battle scene he is defeated without firing a shot. (Turns out he was a puppet, more or less, of someone who is actually a credible threat, but they barely show up at all in this book; not even enough for decent foreshadowing.) Isn't really out of character though? As far as I can remember his best tactics just revolve around having a ton of back up plans. He has no real experience leading soldiers or coordinating ships outside of relatively petty terrorist operations. The asteroid thing working as planned was dumb blind luck helped out by events completely out of his control. He hit the lotto and then thought that made him the next Alexander but he obv is not. I dunno I never thought he was some genius to begin with and the fact that there's someone else behind him seems like it shouldn't be a surprise whatsoever. I would say it was foreshadowed ever since Nemesis Games but that's too weak a word almost considering he didn't just magick himself up some Mars Navy ships or somehow get all kinds of intelligence and logistical support just from his own lovely terror cell people. Obviously there was a powerful backer. As to whether the book suffers for having a weak antagonist I guess I'll find out this weekend; I hope people are overblowing the criticism a bit though because I really enjoyed all the previous books. gohmak posted:Another novel that has the theme of Earths destruction being the catalyst for humanity populating the stars is Dan Simons Hyperion. Hyperion is good. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jan 6, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2017 21:20
|
|
