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This is a loving fantastic series based just on the world building alone. It takes an intelligent, well thought through, conception of both what near future science could do in terms of human habitation of the solar system, and the sociological implications of a human diaspora. The Expanse universe is right up there with Eclipse Phase and Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy when it comes to seriously examining the human response to near future exploitation of the broader solar system. Strategic Tea posted:Good news, she's out of prison and ready to kick rear end for book 6! Nah, the authors are trying to give you some pretty straight forward human archetypes, then humanize the ones you would normally not identify so that you can see that everyone can be redeemed--even the monsters. Having them as protagonists really makes what he's doing seem like a much more sophisticated, nuanced, and realistic version of Lucas's Vader narrative in Star Wars. Edit The movie Downfall is interesting, not just because of the memes it created, but because it sort of does this (minus the redemption) with Hitler. It turns Hitler from the abstract incarnation of evil, into a human being who has lost everything. Someone you might actually have pity for while watching the film. This is why the film was so controversial. Not because it was apologizing for Hitler, or glorifying the Nazi past, but because it turned Adolf Hitler into a man. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Oct 3, 2016 |
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Oct 3, 2016 16:23
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Eiba posted:Name speculation The thing about the Oriental-Other is that it is what unifies the Occidental-Self through negative reflection. In other words, we know that the West is free, rational, and future facing because the Orient is the tyrannical, decadent, and stuck in the past. So if you want to think about the book titles in terms of Orientalism, I think it is much more likely that the Occident remains all of humanity--Earth, Mars, the Belt, etc.--while the Other is some yet as unknown or hinted at force. Thus, humanity gains unity through its mirror image found in the Other. You need not actually have an Other to create an Other. The Aliens already hinted at, for example, could remain dead but the things that transmit their culture through time--their machines, their art, their weapons, the proto-molecule, etc.--can be enough for humanity to create a unifying narrative of Otherness. Here is the thing though, the Other is created by the Occident and does not necessarily reflect any "truth" about the Other. Truth is ambivalent to both the Occident and the Orient so long as the narrative of Otherness can be spun, and it always can be spun.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:09
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Well I'm all caught up on the books except for The Vital Abyss and boy howdy do I love it overall even though it does have some clunker parts (horny space scientist in Cibola Burn parts). Since I got into this series late (because I watched the show) how often should I expect to have to wait between books? I know that the next one is in December but since everything else was already released at the point I started reading I want to know how to gird myself between volumes. Until Babylon's Ashes there has been a new book literally every June since Leviathan Wakes was published. It would have been the same this year; however, Babylon's Ashes was delayed because of the television show. quote:Edit: It's kind of a shame that the Belters don't really look that different than earthers in the TV series for the most part. I know, budget restrictions and effects problems most likely but still. I'm very curious as to what Bobbie's powered armor is going to look like. I haven't watched the show, but I feel you. It makes it really hard to communicate how much people would physically change, not just mentally, because of the G environment they grew up in. And it's not just the Belters, it's people from Mars and Luna as well.
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Oct 3, 2016 21:57
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:It's nice to know that the books aren't years apart between volumes. I agree! It's probably good that James SA Corey is actually two people, not one. Believe me when I say that makes a huge difference on writing projects. quote:And yeah in the show SOME Belters are very different looking, but not all. Just watched the first episode last night so I haven't gotten to see much. My one complaint so far is the actors are too young. It seems like the casting choices were great, other than this, but Holden was in his mid-30s at least in Leviathan Wakes. Steven Straight has just turned 30 and looks 25 to me. quote:yeah I was under the impression that Martians weren't very different from Earthers but people from Luna were more pronounced on their low-g environment, but Belters are getting close to the tall CE3K alien. Yes, but Martians in there one 3rd G are still noticeably taller than Earthers. They also have more narrow and angular features, and it's commented that you can tell someone was born on Mars just by looking at them.
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Oct 4, 2016 14:48
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Dr. Benway posted:I also pictured Amos as a 45ish year old factory worker that's build like a brick shithouse. I'm re-reading Leviathan Wakes right now and Holden is described from Fred Johnson perspective as a man who might be "in his early 30s." Holden also is stated to have spent 7 years in the UN navy and 5 years as an XO of the Cantaberry, which would make him around 30 if he went into the navy at 18; however, he was an officer in the navy, which going by the contemporary navy, means he very likely had a college degree or equivalent training when he joined, making him around 34. Plus the way that--from a number of main character perspectives--people are described as being visibly older in Nemesis Games doesn't strike me as people having aged from their early 30s to their mid-30s. It's more like what I'm experiencing as a 39 year old, and realizing that my friends, my wife, and myself are actually starting to show our ages... And finally there is the demeanor of the main pov characters, which is not the demeanor I would expect of people who are barely 30. In any case, I just think it's unfortunate that Steven Straight is so young. I mean, to me, he looks 25--it's almost like they're trying to make him look younger. This is causing me real dissonance while watching the show. And this critique applies to nearly everyone on the show with the exception of maybe Miller and Amos. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 15:04
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So I don't know why this didn't bother me the first time I read Abaddon's, but it's bothering me now. On the alien station, the Martian marine's guns don't work. Then in response to the Martian grenade launcher, the station makes the slow zone even slower because, according to Miller, it see's anything faster than "a slow pitched softball as a threat." This is followed somehow by full scale gun battles on Behemoth a few chapters later with lots of guns and things going faster than softballs. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Oct 12, 2016 |
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Oct 12, 2016 22:27
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Eiba posted:I got the impression that it didn't mess with internal movement in other objects. Like, it's not going to stop someone's blood from moving too fast inside their body or whatever. As far as the station was concerned ships and all their contents were single objects and stuff could move however it wanted to inside there. That makes me feel a bit better, I didn't remember this though I probably just read it. Still, it's weird that the velocity stopped Eiba posted:I got the impression that it didn't mess with internal movement in other objects. Like, it's not going to stop someone's blood from moving too fast inside their body or whatever. As far as the station was concerned ships and all their contents were single objects and stuff could move however it wanted to inside there. Martian bullets on the station and not on the ships.
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Oct 13, 2016 00:03
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bitprophet posted:Is it? The station isn't a foreign body, it's...itself. Why wouldn't it apply the "gently caress you you don't gotta go fast" rules inside itself? Not really, but I connect the bullets to the "slow zone" precisely because the grenade launcher actually works, and then the further reduction of velocity in the slow zone is a response to that; however, it occurs to me that you guys are right. If the slow zone affected what was happening inside the ships, nobody would be hurt by the sudden reduction of velocity of the ship.
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Oct 13, 2016 14:29
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Snuffman posted:Sorry if this is a thread bump, I've tried to keep myself as spoiler free as possible. You answered your own question. They aren't essential to understanding what's going on in future books, but they add a lot to the already fantastic world the authors have built.
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Oct 24, 2016 22:14
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ClassH posted:New book comes out Dec 6th. Anyone know when the audio book normally comes out in relation? Audible says that, in this case, the audio book releases on the same day--December 6th. It probably helps that the book has been ready to publish for months. The only reason they've held it to December is because the television show's second season wasn't going to be ready until January.
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Nov 23, 2016 02:41
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acumen posted:It is in Canada. I picked it up yesterday. Stupid Canadians. I hate you so much right now. 
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Nov 30, 2016 13:59
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acumen posted:Halfway through BA: they pulled a loving 360 no scope I hate all of you.
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Dec 3, 2016 22:50
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Collateral posted:Miller mentions it several times as the entire purpose of the investigator. Plus the eldritched eye of an angry god thing. Not really. You're left to infer that. It's "something," for sure. Something that "made" that evil eye. It's probably aliens, but Miller never is like "yep, it's this other alien species." *edit Corrected a phone posting mistake that made this post read really weird. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 04:11
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A human heart posted:lol Ty Franck began developing the world of The Expanse as an idea for a massively multiplayer online role-playing game. After a number of years the idea shifted to become the setting for a tabletop game. Abraham, who had already written several books on his own at this point, noticed the depth of the world that Franck had created and thought they should make a book series out of it: "People who write books don't do this much research." I'm not surprised. The setting reminds me a lot of Eclipse Phase. I mean there are a lot of differences, since the Expanse only hints at the transhumanist; however, they're both the same in that they seriously tackle the sociological implications of a near future pan-solar system humanity. Edit. A long time ago I hade this idea about live play podcasts and turning tabletop rpgs into improvised participatory fiction. Nothing happened with that, of course. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 16:39
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Reading BA and I'm confused about the status of the Martian navy. It's stated that 1/5th of it flew off through the gate, but why about the other 4/5th? They talk about Mars like the whole navy is gone. Also, I don't get the direction they are going with Mars. I think the idea that the gates, and the risk they represent, would not account for a total depopulation of the planet. It's actually pretty hard to get people with comfortable lives to immigrate to frontier conditions. Yes, a lot of people might leave, but they make it sound like 2/3rds of the people on the planet just gave up their lives, careers, connection to family, and headed for the gates because "no domes." Edit Holy loving poo poo Fred was one of my favorite characters. Didn't see that coming. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 6, 2016 22:00
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They keep talking about the death of the terraforming project on Mars. I just can't imagine a real life scenario or analog where a place would lose such a large portion of the population to emigration. Even during the greatest wave of immigration from Europe to the United States--which occurred after the United States was a fully industrialized non-frontier country--there wasn't 10% of the continents population emigrating.
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Dec 8, 2016 17:44
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Captain Fargle posted:That scenario didn't involve Europe being a place where going outdoors kills you in a very painful fashion. Yes, but you're talking about a group of people who have grown up in the condition of no outdoors, so who the gently caress cares? There needs to be an economic reason to get people in a diaspora. People in an economically stable environment, with work and food (as long as it makes for a comfortable life) are not going to, to the tune of 10% of the population, move to a frontier, where there is no guarantee of a comfortable life and it is, in fact, dangerous. If anything in this universe I would expect people to be leaving Earth because it's overcrowded, it's resources are at their extreme limits, and "basic" (particularly when a large portion of this population does no work at all) seems kind of lovely. I would especially expect a large migration now that a quarter of the population is dying from having rocks dropped on the planet. What I wouldn't expect is the relatively wealthy Martians to abandon their lives, and the teraformers who have probably had generations of family working on the project, up and leave because they now get to go "outside" on planets that might eat off their face. Even the mass difference between Mars G and near Earth Gs should dissuade anyone who grew up on Mars from wanting to loving bother. Keep in mind Bobby trained in 1G as a Marine and comments, when she gets to Earth, how totally unprepared Martians would be to try to do anything long term in Earth gravity. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 16:19
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Groke posted:You are quite correct about the need for an economic reason but I think you miss the target just a little... during the late 19th/early 20th century, rather more than 10% of the population of Norway emigrated to the USA and they were by and large not driven out by complete misery and starvation. In fact the economy in Norway was not just stable but growing in prosperity during that time (it was then that we got industrialization properly underway thanks to abundant hydroelectric power). It was just that, for many people, it seemed that they could prosper even more by emigrating. And a lot of them were right about that. (Not everyone, though; something like 20% eventually came back, for various reasons.) Sure, okay. But again you are taking about people migrating because of economic conditions to a boom economy. These people, by in large, were migrating to developed cities in the United States where they new a large number of industrial jobs were available. They were not migrating to the equivalent of Jamestown, which all of the gate world colonies would be. Even in the US gold rush, there was a gold boom and a bunch of people moving to California to strike it rich. It wasn't 10% of the population though, and they were moving to a place that had some infrastructure. This is why you never saw similar migration numbers in the Alaskan gold rush, because more people were like "gently caress that, Alaska is super loving dangerous." And again, with Mars we are talking about a wealthy population with a large middle class--the wealthiest inner planet (so the wealthiest of the wealthy countries). What's is being described in the books is akin to 10% of the American population up and moving to the moon the moment it's "open" to "colonization" or the loving desert of Mauritania now that they've opened it to gold prospecting. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 9, 2016 |
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Dec 9, 2016 18:35
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Anything can be "justified" depending on perspective; however, in the case of the belt killing off billions on the Earth, there are certain material considerations that all but the blind should see, which would stop you. First and foremost there is the economic issue. The belt still relies almost completely on the heavy industry and agriculture of the inners. You disrupt the Earth on a massive scale, you're loving your self forever--even that splinter OPA "we can make a sustainable economy in 3 years..." stuff is bullshit. Yes, if everything goes right, we won't just start dying off in mass from station failures and starvation, maybe. We will have a seriously worse standard of living and all be laboring in collective farms--if we are lucky. Then there is the issue of The only analogy here to the Second World War is this: the belt, not the Earth, is Japan. You're the small power now facing 4/5th (when you add Mars) of the productive capacity of the solar system, and since you've set the genocidal tone for the conflict, you have to hope that when they come with irresistible force (and they will come), the sane government that buys norms like human rights has weathered the storm you caused is leading the charge. Because chances are pretty good that the sane government will have bee replaced by people with a mandate to make the belt pay in blood for the death of billions of people on earth. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Dec 20, 2016 |
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Dec 20, 2016 21:26
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Pyzza Rouge posted:Yeah I enjoyed it more than any book in the series so far. Going with so many already well-developed PoV characters was a big factor for me. It was weird to me, I agree with everything you're saying, but I was left a little disappointed by the ending. Vanishing Marco to save the day seemed a little deus ex machina, and there was finality to the ending I didn't expect at all. The last few books, all them until now really, were very cliff hangary. Some in the epilogue, and some in just the meat of the ending. This one, I was like, well there is the missing mars fleet, but pretty much everything else is wrapped up, including a new political solution to what's been going on for most of the series.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:20
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Bozart posted:Yes this book pretty clearly marks a turning point from threats from inside of the Solar system to threats outside of it. Do you think? I mean the first arc of the story all about about existential threats posed by the pm other. Helped by humans, of course. Given that Mars fleet beyond the gate I don't think that will change much. Really it's only been the last couple books where the outside truly "alien" threat wasn't the existential threat. I guess they tried really hard to resolve the internal social fractures amongst people in the solar system; however, if the authors are smart (and they clearly are), I can't help but think that things haven't been resolved as neatly as the appear. They couldn't be, without springing the whole superstructure of the human organization of labor into the air. They've gotten close to that, but always pull back at the final moment. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Dec 25, 2016 |
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Dec 24, 2016 01:20
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A human heart posted:You'd punch someone for posting a joke on a web site? It depends on the joke. I can't think of one that would literally make me want to punch someone in the throat; however, I do not feel comfortable ruling out of the realm of possibility that someone could come up with such a joke, then post it. So... maybe?
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Dec 30, 2016 23:08
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There definitely is some truth to the critiques leveled by that review. Particularly when it came to the political ramifications of the conflict. No way anyone associated with the free navy isn't hunted down and brought to trial. Minimum. And realistically speaking the war would have ended a lot different, and the belt would be lucky if it were not completely destroyed.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:53
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Na'at posted:Since most of the fresh water on Earth is probably full of garbage now and the economy of the entire planet is in tatters it might be a smart idea to NOT destroy and depopulate the area where people live and work to ship water and resources back to the Earth. The big game changer for Mars was the gates crashing their economic base via mass exodus, for Earth it was the rocks destroying infrastructure and population. Realistically speaking Mars and Earth can't really do poo poo against the Belt without loving themselves. Each faction in the solar system is now far more interdependent than they were before and not a one can survive solely on their own or dictate terms like before. First of all, people (including governments) don't think very rationally when it comes to things like "you just killed half the people on earth." Humans are not always purely rational beings. Think about American reaction to 9/11 and multiply it times billion. I mean, think about the belt destroying the place that produces everything they need to survive, from equipment to food. Second of all, in a calculus of total war this is all the more reason for Earth to seize access to the people and infrastructure necessary to provide water. If 20 million belters die in the process who cares. I don't actually think you'd see a real life "ethnic cleansing" of the belt, just a war in which the destruction of a large part of the belts population is acceptable, followed by a less than pleasant "occupational" period. Of course the war itself probably would result in some retaliation with WMDs, but the earthers wounding kill everyone in the belt. Edit Probably. Then again, you might actually see a more controlled government collapse and end up with Nazis. There is historical president who see the war with the belt as a war of extermination. Kill all the belters and belter culture and replace them with good humans from Earth. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 22:36
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Maybe the first book of Hyperion is good. Then it gets all Dan loving Simmons.
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Jan 7, 2017 20:24
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Platystemon posted:It’s implausible that Mars has lost so much population so fast, but terraforming is a really slow process and it’s absolutely doomed to fail as long as the gates exist. We were just talking about this a week or so before the new book came out. I am 100% with you on this. Prior to this last book that was the only thing I thought wasn't well thought through in the novels when it came to what the socio-economic and political realities that would have resulted from the world the authors had constructed in the background. And I'm not really trying to critique the authors too much here, I'm still 100% invested in the novels, but the portrait of the outcome of the attempted destruction of Earth and the genocide of half the Earths population, was, in my opinion really off.
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Jan 7, 2017 23:05
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Sjonkel posted:
Yep, that's huge. You could crew a Seawolf class attack submarine with people you pulled out of the Nigerian navy, but I wouldn't expect it to last long in combat, even if they were given a crash course on how to operate it and its systems. And in the case of the belters, you are talking people with no military experience. Not even in a developing world 3rd rate military. That said, it's actually more noticeable when, in previous books, they had belters fighting toe to toe in boarding actions against well trained ground soldiers. And I only say this because you could spin some story about AIs being able to competently handle ship-to-ship combat. It's still not believable, but it's easier to deus ex machina that in a sci-if setting. Just a little.
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Jan 9, 2017 16:43
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Collateral posted:The Free Navy have maybe two dozen MCRN corvettes? The UN Navy and the 2/3 of the MCRN that is left can't match that? I mean, the excuse was that the free navy was still throwing stealth rocks at the Earth, and the Earth navy was tied to the Earth catching those for political reasons as much as military reasons. I get that, fine. The part that doesn't feel right is the free navy actually being able to put up any coordinated and well executed fleet action against a navy of either Mars or Earth, no matter how many Martian ships they had.
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Jan 10, 2017 19:47
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Moridin920 posted:Throwing rocks is kind of a big deal and if you let them sit there and do it forever eventually you're gonna miss one. They also need to get food/water/resources from the belt + the outer planets because Earth is hosed now. It's not them "winning," but the belters putting up any sort of serious coordinated fleet operation. For example, trying to chase down the escorted Martian prime minister. And even if the Free Navy had the training and discipline necessary to be more or less equal to either the Earth or Mars navy, which they wouldn't, Mars and Earth are always going to have a huge advantage. Leaving aside the fact Holden ran out of military grade juice, I assume two things. The Earth and Mars navies did not and it would be as hard or harder for the Free Navy to restock military juice once used; AND even if it wasn't that hard for the Free Navy to do so, 99% of the Free Navy is born and raised belters. Meaning, as the authors are fond of pointing out, the low gravity of their childhood has given them bodies far more likely to stroke out and die as the result of high gravity maneuvering. Therefore Mars and Earth can always dictate the terms of the engagement and either out maneuver the Free Navy to death, or force the Free Navy to engage on the terms of the "squats" and degrade the combat ability of the Free Navy by making them do what would be low to medium risk G maneuvering for people from high g environments, but will end up killing lots of people with belter bodies.
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Jan 11, 2017 18:55
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gohmak posted:It violates the main thing The Expanse has going for itself. Plausible world building. If they can't accurately depict human reaction to an event of this magnitude everything else in the story just collapses. Space battle tactical realism of belter bodies vs squats pales in comparison. This is right on the money.
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Jan 13, 2017 15:06
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Eiba posted:So discussion in the TV thread has me wondering again, how bad is living on Basic? I get that no one wants to do it, but I always assumed it was fairly comfortable, but last time it came up in the TV thread people said that it was more slums and squalor. In the books it seems more mixed than this. Some people on basic live at the bottom; however, the fact that people who want to go to college have to work for a year to see if "working is really their thing," tells me that some people decide it isn't. And I'm guessing not very many college bound kids would decide "gently caress it, I hate working!" If being on basic meant you have to live in squalor. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 22:12 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 6, 2017 20:32
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I doubt Basic will come up again in the novels, but I presume that it is a reasonably comfortable if monotonous life. The whole point would be to keep the massive populace placated and docile. So free drugs, free entertainment and a decent standard of living. Actually, I thought the justification was that one main functions of the modern state is to ensure everyone had the right to not starve to death; die from lack of healthcare, or live in abject miserable conditions. In a way you're right, if you approach the problem from a very rational choice model (I wouldn't, but you could) because, especially since we are the talking about a global scale, if you let all the wealth to gravitate to the hands of the few in an economic system that cannot come close to achieving the kind of employment levels necessary to keep people out of abject poverty, eventually you will have a problem. The vast majority of people will be coming to redistribute both the wealth and the blood of the people in charge. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 14:28 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 18:54
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Any other hardish sci-fi recommendations? I've read pretty much all of Banks, Reynolds, and Hamilton's Commonwealth novels over the last few months.
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May 18, 2017 18:06
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Baloogan posted:heinlein wrote a bunch of relatively hard sci fi. Yes, but everyone has read Heinlein though, right?  If not, you probably should. Along with Joe Haldeman, who never gets the credit he's due.
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May 18, 2017 18:43
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Grand Fromage posted:The stuff with the protomolecule not exactly following linear time is pretty subtle, I don't think they're going to do straight up obvious time travel. It wouldn't fit with the semi-hard sci-fi style. Yeah, but the Everett interpretation gives you easy access to explain the repercussions of time travel in a semi-hard way. Even Alyster Reynolds does it, though in his case it's just information traveling from the future and people being erased from the timelines completely when they attempt FTL. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 16:00 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 14:47
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Arcsquad12 posted:So the protomolecule is basically an alien bio weapon/terraformer/teleporter, I take it? Target an earth like planet, wipe out its population and then use its biomass plus radiation to build a giant fuckoff Stargate to their central hub? Pretty much; however, while it isn't said I get the impression it isn't meant to be used as a weapon on complicated biomes, sentient creatures, or civilizations. When it was originally shot at earth the life on Earth was no more complicated than some multicellular organisms in a sea of bacteria. Platystemon posted:The protomolecule is a metaphor for the plants/animals/microbiota that Europeans brought to the New World that made the place more habitable for them but hosed over all the natives. That was a two way street. Probably 2/3rds of the grains you eat (and tobacco) are new World plants. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 16:21 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 16:17
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Baloogan posted:yeah, its really dumb how some tiwtters are so politics focused. should have personal accounts to do poltiics imo From a marketing point of view, sure; however, ideology and thus politics attaches itself to everything. So even the act of saving politics for personal twitter accounts is, in and of itself, a political act.
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Jul 23, 2017 16:51
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:That's not it, she was talking (thinking) about the existential horror she experienced going outside. The point was the 1+G training was nothing more that a security blanket that tricked Martian soldiers into at least considering fighting. I distinctly recall her thinking that one part of this is that the Martian 1G training was distinctly inadequate preparation for any sort of prolonged combat at 1G with UN soldiers who grew up in, and live in, 1G constantly. The other part was the enormity of "outside;" which is pretty much the only part of that "scene" that made it into the TV show. Importantly, when that scene made it to the TV show, it completely lost the context of comparing the inadequacy of Mars military preparation for combat in 1G; however, I would probably argue that the subtext of the scene from the novels was captured pretty drat well on the television show--the overwhelming nature of Earth for those who had never lived there, even for those "trained" for it, was the most important facet of the scene. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Jul 31, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 14:38
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Arcsquad12 posted:Oh don't get me wrong, avasarala owns, but man she is a mean bastard when she wants to be. Except, apparently, when she gives a pass to war criminals who were in on probably the greatest crime against humanity ever perpetrated. Then giving her blessing for that person to be the political leader of the belt. Except then. Edit Spoiler added
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Aug 26, 2017 22:53
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48 Hour Boner posted:Yes and no; the PM basically has one purpose and Protogen played around with it. In the books, you are correct. In the show, however, which I think is what he's commenting on there was sort of the implication that us humans turned the protomolocule bad. Don't know how you'd explain the gate construction later though.
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Oct 4, 2017 16:22
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