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Redgrendel2001
Sep 1, 2006

you literally think a person saying their NBA team of choice being better than the fucking 76ers is a 'schtick'

a literal thing you think.

Lebron James just cancelled his visit.

https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/773715471795261440

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Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Senator Dick Gordon just proposed granting the president emergency powers, including suspension of the writ of habeas corpus. Only the italicized translation is mine:

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/09/08/16/gordon-wants-habeas-corpus-suspended-for-drugs-terrorism

quote:

Congress should suspend writ of habeas corpus, which directs authorities to present a prisoner to the court to determine if the detention is lawful, for cases pertaining to drugs and terrorism, a senator said on Thursday.

Senator Richard Gordon recommended the suspension in addition to President Rodrigo Duterte's declaration of the state of national emergency on account of lawless violence, and in support for the president's war on drugs.

Duterte on Monday signed the declaration, days after the Davao bombing on September 2, which left at least 14 dead and over 60 wounded.

But Gordon said the declaration only allows for more military visibility on the streets.
"To suppress lawless violence, [what that means is], the police are insufficient, so [let's add an] army, [so that they can give chase if there's a fight, we can intervene]," he said.

"In the prosecution of a crime and the crime is being committed, they can use the force necessary, allowed by the law to do that and now, they have an amigo—the military," he added.

Under the Malacañang directives, warrantless arrests are allowed under specified circumstances, but Gordon believes it will not be sufficient to accost persons of interest.

"I don’t know if anybody would waive his rights to be arrested, unless caught committing a crime or about to commit a crime or is an escaped prisoner, you cannot be arrested unless they have a warrant," he said.
Gordon said that the suspension of the writ of habeas corpus would add teeth to the declaration of national emergency and the guidelines thereof.

Likewise, Gordon said the suspension of the writ of habeas corpus would also resolve the issue of the spate of killings allegedly connected to the war on drugs.

It is also hypocrisy that now the Philippines has a leader who is willing to solve the drug menace, he is not equipped with the power to quell it, said Gordon.

"He wants to solve it. Let's support him. We don't want drug-related murders, give him something without hypocrisy. Give them the suspension of habeas corpus so people are arrested, not murdered," he said.

In this war on drugs, Gordon said, the suspension of the writ of habeas corpus will give authorities power to arrest someone immediately and investigate simultaneously.

"If it’s a war against drugs, let’s give the president, let’s tell the people in black and white, [that] if you’re a drug pusher, you’re a drug lord, you can now be arrested because of suspended writ of habeas corpus," he said.

"Maghabol ka, huhulihin ka namin, habang iniimbestigahan ka namin para we can really, mabulatlat lahat yung mga kalokohan mo," he added.

[If you run away, we will chase after you while being investigated so that all your wrongdoings will be revealed.]
Gordon also believes a state of emergency, which shall include the suspension of writ of habeas corpus, will help quell the threat of terrorism.

"How many times should we see and not complain about people being beheaded? A young boy is kidnapped; because hindi nagbayad ng tatlong milyon, pinugutan ng ulo [He didn't pay so terrorists beheaded him]. Are we going to wait for that to happen? Are we going to wait for them to do it here?," he said.

He pointed out, the government has tried to do this before, but it has been swept under the carpet.

"I want it out in the open. Declare a state of emergency, [sic] give the courts the power of the law and the policemen the power of the law to suspend yung when they arrest, you produce him right away," he said.

He believes, an emergency authorized by the congress will be prone to less abuse because "congress will be overriding the emergency powers by providing all these legalities that needed to be there in order to protect the people."

This, he said, is provided for in the Constitution and that Congress may authorize emergency in case of war and national emergency "provided we say it’s only for a certain time, or a limited period of time."

"Under the constitution, in times of emergency or war, congress may declare that state of emergency by way of delineating what powers the president may have, even suspending the writ of habeas corpus, specifically, let’s say, for drugs or for terrorism," he said.

He also noted that even if the habeas corpus is suspended or even if martial law is declared, courts will stay.

However, under this scenario, he would also want that the courts be open for 24 hours to be able to respond immediately for reports of abuse by the authorities.

"We should ask the Supreme Court to create 24-hour courts, even part of the emergency should allow for the expansion of more courts," he said, noting that in July this year, the high courts added 200 more courts.

"In case of abuse, if you have an emergency, the court should remain open for 24 hours, even for Skype or something like that…so the courts can immediately act," he added.

He added, the Senate Blue Ribbon Committee, which he chairs, will also be open to investigate should the police or the military abuse their powers.

Gordon said, since the Senate seems keen on granting emergency powers to Duterte to solve the traffic crisis in the metro, they should also think about granting emergency powers for other issues.

"Congress, if we all really want to save our country, if we feel that we don’t want these killings, if we feel that it’s important that we allow this president this emergency powers, let’s extend the emergency powers beyond traffic. That’s another emergency powers," he said.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
I'm trying to imagine an American President, from either party, proposing that they very violently violate Posse Comitatus, and I can't imagine that going over too well.

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


Xelkelvos posted:

I haven't really looked into Nicaragua all that much fwiw, so I'll defer to your judgement there regarding Ortega and he government there. The most I've read up on was a recent article and an NPR story concerning how Nicaragua's drug problems are far less worse compared to surrounding countries due to implementing rehabilitation and mentoring programs to prevent children and teens from joining gangs via ex-gang members and other diversion techniques that tough on crime types would dismiss for being too weak on criminals.

reforms by the FSLN, the political party the United States funded a brutal war that killed thousands to overthrow. hell, the economist said this about their police reforms:

quote:

Nicaragua’s police force is in danger of giving socialism a good name. The country is one of the poorest in the hemisphere. Yet its annual murder rate, 11 per 100,000 people, is among the lowest in Latin America and eight times lower than in neighbouring Honduras.

Few countries would want to reproduce the history out of which that success was born: the National Police is a product of the 1979 Sandinista revolution and civil war. But some of its best practices are easy to copy. The force requires community approval for each of its new recruits, who enjoy at least a year’s obligatory training at a police academy, smart uniforms and a strong esprit de corps that policemen say makes low pay easier to bear. In the continent most scarred by crime, such lessons are too important to ignore.

nicaragua is one of the worst examples of positive american influence

also sorry for derailing the Philippines thread

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Sheng-ji Yang posted:



some cool pinoy facebook memes

How is this in anyway news. "If you've done $BadThing then you're no longer part of human society and its protections, everyone else is free to hunt you down and kill you" is the obvious argument underlying "hey everyone go kill outlaws druggies legally", with a long and proud history stretching back to before the middle ages.

Lord Zedd-Repulsa
Jul 21, 2007

Devour a good book.


It keeps being mentioned as some other good Duterte is doing, so what's the deal with Manila's traffic?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Manila's traffic is legendarily bad*, and Duterte ran on a platform promising that he'll fix it, by God.

There's deliberations in the Senate to give the President emergency powers to solve the traffic situation. I don't really know what that means.

* that's not really a scientific study of traffic, but it gets the point across.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

gradenko_2000 posted:

Manila's traffic is legendarily bad*, and Duterte ran on a platform promising that he'll fix it, by God.

There's deliberations in the Senate to give the President emergency powers to solve the traffic situation. I don't really know what that means.

* that's not really a scientific study of traffic, but it gets the point across.

I suspect it has something to do with bulldozers and blackmail/bribery.

ihatepants
Nov 5, 2011

Let the burning of pants commence. These things drive me nuts.



So after Obama's speech at the ASEAN Summit talking about human rights, Duterte decided to not follow his prepared speech and instead started a rant about US military killing Filipinos during the Philippine American war during the late 1800s and early 1900s, where he showed photographs of Filipinos who were killed by American soldiers.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/09/08/16/duterte-shocks-summit-meeting-with-tirade-vs-us

quote:

Setting aside a prepared speech, Duterte spoke for more than five minutes about human rights and his campaign against drugs during the East Asian Summit in the Laotian capital of Vientiane, according to one Indonesian diplomat at the meeting.

"Let me tell you about human rights," the diplomat quoted Duterte as saying while displaying a picture of Filipinos killed by American soldiers about a century ago.

"This is my ancestors being killed, so why now we are talking about human rights? We have to talk of the full spectrum of human rights."

Duterte launched into a tirade about US military killings in the Philippines when it was an American colony from 1898 to 1946, according to three diplomats that Agence France-Presse spoke with who were in the room.

"The Philippine president showed a picture of the killings of American soldiers in the past and the president said: 'This is my ancestor they killed. Why now we are talking about human rights," an Indonesian delegate said.

The delegate described the atmosphere in the room as "quiet and shocked."

Another diplomat described the speech as "normal Duterte."

Duterte spoke after Obama had delivered a speech that referred to human rights.

Wizchine
Sep 17, 2007

Television is the retina
of the mind's eye.
Yep - totally the same thing: undeniable wrongs from 100 years ago that were implemented and perpetrated by people long dead and that would require a time-machine to fix, versus a policy implemented by you yourself, within the last year, that is still in effect, and which could be rescinded by you if you simply gave the word.

Here's what's actually the same thing: Filipinos are the victims in both cases.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Hey thread, is there a doctor I can see who specializes in aneurysms caused by reading my Facebook feed? Almost posted this to the email forwards thread but since these are all postings by public figures I figured this was a better place:

Perfecto Yasay posted:

I choose not to be bothered by expletives uttered by president Duterte to explain that human rights refers to the fundamental rights of a desperate and oppressed people victimized by ruthless offenders and violators of the law. The issue of human rights must be addressed from the viewpoint of our urgent needs, aspirations and national history and not through the international norms created and arbitrarily imposed by former colonizers that now claim civility and superiority resulting from vulgar behavior and a dismal record in respecting human rights, dignity and equality.

classic "and you are lynching negroes" response

Some of this next one may seem sensible on the surface but just to be clear, this is coming because duterte supporters don't like that the media emphasized his potty mouth instead of talking about all the "good" he's done, so pardon me if i don't think they have the best interests of "the republic" at heart by saying we should regulate the media:

Antonio Contreras posted:

TIME TO REGULATE THE MEDIA AS A PROFESSION

This is not about censorship, but making the media accountable for what they do.

Lawyers, doctors, engineers, chemists, psychologists and even foresters are examples of professions. There is an academic degree requirement. And there is a board exam that you need to pass, and there is a code of ethical conduct for which you are held accountable, and if you transgress, you get removed from the profession and denied the chance to practice it ever.

It is about time to make journalism a regulated profession, and have its own board exam, even as it requires having an academic degree in the appropriate field of communication and journalism, and required units in political science, economics, and other disciplines that would be relevant to its practice.

Journalists should also be required to divest themselves from any pecuniary interest in any public or financial activity, and they should be asked to inhibit in reporting on news for which they or their relatives may have some involvement. Finally, they should be strictly non-partisan, and should be barred from posting any political opinion in social media or any other platform.

This would only of course apply to those who are tasked to report the news, such as reporters and anchors. Public affairs commentators and analysts would not be covered, considering that what they do is basically to express opinions, as partisans, with their biases. And there is always the rules on libel to which they can be held civilly-liable (although I go for its decriminalization).

Even if there is already a Code of Ethics for the media, this is just similar to the Code of Ethics for Scientists in doing research. They serve as internal standards but are weak legally.

Professional journalists should no longer be allowed to become commentators and opinion-writers. If you want to do the latter, then you cease to become a journalist, but become a thought-leader, or an opinion-maker.

There should be no crossing-over. A TV anchor should no longer be allowed to have a regular column, although a newspaper editor can still be allowed to become an opinion-maker subject to certain constraints.

The noise and misrepresentation that is created by media, from taking out of context of Sec. Tugade's comment about traffic being a state out mind, to grossly misrepresenting the putang ina of the President as a direct curse at President Obama, are just tips of the iceberg. You have journalists who even during the delivery of the news make editorial comments. You have reporters who post comments for or against a politician in their face-book accounts.

This, while lawyers, doctors, psychologists and engineers are held strictly to comply with their profession's codes of conduct, and could be sued for malpractice. Lawyers could be disbarred. The license of Doctors could be suspended or revoked.

Driving in this country is a licensed endeavor that when you make a moving violation, you get a ticket, or when you commit a serious traffic infraction, that your license is revoked and you are banned from driving for life. The reason? Because you are a threat to public safety.

An irresponsible journalist is a threat to the Republic.

A journalist who reports lies, or inaccuracies, or is blatantly partisan, is not propagating information that should be protected, for it is done contradictory to the tenets of the journalist's profession -- to advance truth, without fear of fervor. In fact, they themselves live on this mantra of "walang kinikilingan, walang pinuprotekahan."

Freedom of speech will not be violated, for opinions can still be freely expressed by partisans, opinion writers, political analysts, and social meda netizens.

But a higher standard should be set to those whose profession rests on unbiased reporting of facts.

Furthermore, ordinary netizens and bloggers could not be accused of practicing without a license, for it would be clear that they will be posting opinions, which is a protected speech, and not objective and factual news, which only licensed professional media practitioners are authorized to do. Hence, the boundaries will be clearer.

Senator Dick Gordon posted:

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. We all don’t like the killings. The President too. Yet, we also want to fix our drug problem in the quickest and most effective way possible. In the current circumstances we are in, when drug lords are already in jail yet still powerfully giving orders in the outside world, and not a cent of their belongings in the possession of government - all the strides the president has made will soon go to waste. [Whatever victories he has in the war on drugs, it will be for nothing because even if addicts and pushers go away, others will take their place and we'll keep going in circles because we haven't fixed the root of the problem and the true culprits] As it is, talk is rife regarding the culprits of the unexplained killings -drug lords, police, even government officials wanting to disassociate themselves from those who can point them out. We are even now hearing that the drug lords could have paid Abu Sayyaf to bomb Davao City. THE FACT IS THE GRIP OF DRUGS IN THIS COUNTRY IS SO TIGHT AND HARD THAT IT EVEN ESCAPES DEATH.

The president has declared an all out war against drugs. And rightfully so. And the Constitution with the help of Congress can afford him the powers to fight an all out war within the confines of the rule of law.

I AM NOT ONE TO PLAY BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE. Extra especially so on this one. If we want real change, we need real solutions. The president has declared a state of national emergency on account of lawless violence. Already people are asking what it’s implications are. In reality it is a mere declaration. Only Congress can define the powers of emergency the president may exercise.

I OWE MY ALLEGIANCE TO THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY. AND NOT TO ANY ONE PERSON. And that is why I want it defined now. Lest more killings occur. We have to use the Constitution. Use the rule of law. You complain about extra-judicial and unexplained killings, and yet you are unwilling to give our government the proper tools they need to put a stop to it.

I AM NOT PROPOSING MARTIAL LAW. What I am proposing will prevent Martial Law. It will give our chief executive and our police force real but limited powers. It puts restraints on what they can and can’t do. It clearly defines the process within the rule of law. It will have limits, both in breadth and in time. We cannot have our police force -baton toting and whistle blowing, chasing criminals who have within their arsenal an unlimited choice of arms, financed by money sourced from drug lords not just in our country but clearly outside too. Our police force has been risking their lives in the dark for the longest time. It’s about time we give them the RIGHT TOOLS commensurate to the fight they are bravely doing for the whole country.

The existing justice system in this country is so messy and convoluted. You have to go through all the letters of the alphabet several times over to get from point A to point B. That is if you get lucky to get to point B. We need to fast track the system. We cannot wait anymore. For a long time, we tried waiting. Waiting for justice to happen. And what happened was, an overpowering criminal INjustice system.

How many more times do you want to see cardboards hanging around dead bodies saying ‘pusher/addict ako, huwag tularan,’ justice dished out on old, banged up cardboard? how many more times do you want people taking the law in their own hands? how many more times do you want small fries sacrificed to shhh information about all the big fish?

We finally have a leader who wants to solve the problem. And will do everything to solve the problem. Finally it is not just a press release. Why shouldn’t we give him the right tools? We owe it to him. We owe it to ourselves. The president needs our help. We cannot just leave him there alone. And without the right tools. It’ will be like feeding him to the wolves. Feeding ourselves to the wolves.

This is his defense of his bill proposing to give the president emergency powers, including suspension of writ of habeas corpus.

Logic is essentially: if you hate extrajudicial killing so much, why don't you support my idea? it would allow the police to arrest people without a warrant so there wouldn't be as much violence. but don't worry because it will have restraints!

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

So if imprisoned drug lords are still operating their empires, is Duterte proposing to summarily execute them, or do they still get some due process action because they were lucky enough to be arrested?

keevo
Jun 16, 2011

:burger:WAKE UP:burger:

ihatepants posted:

So after Obama's speech at the ASEAN Summit talking about human rights, Duterte decided to not follow his prepared speech and instead started a rant about US military killing Filipinos during the Philippine American war during the late 1800s and early 1900s, where he showed photographs of Filipinos who were killed by American soldiers.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/09/08/16/duterte-shocks-summit-meeting-with-tirade-vs-us

Between this and the whole cancelled meeting thing, I'm excited to read news coming out of the Philippines for the next six years.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Argue posted:

This is his defense of his bill proposing to give the president emergency powers, including suspension of writ of habeas corpus.

Logic is essentially: if you hate extrajudicial killing so much, why don't you support my idea? it would allow the police to arrest people without a warrant so there wouldn't be as much violence. but don't worry because it will have restraints!

I was afraid of that.

The 1987 Constitution has a bunch of checks and balances against Martial Law, but that poo poo don't work if Congress is packed with sycophants that agree with the President.

abardam
Mar 1, 2015
i liked dick :( whyyy

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Also I like how someone with the gall to try giving Marcos a heroes' burial wants to talk to Obama about historical crimes.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Duterte veers off speech, launches tirade on US killings in front of Obama

quote:

In what attendees described as a "fiery address," President Rodrigo Duterte veered off his prepared speech on Thursday at a meeting of the 18-nation East Asia group including United States President Barack Obama to launch a tirade on US military killings in the Philippines.

This was according to three diplomats who were in the room who spoke to Agence France-Presse at the event in Vientiane, Laos.

"The Philippine president showed a picture of the killings of American soldiers in the past and the president said: 'This is my ancestor they killed. Why now we are talking about human rights,'" an Indonesian delegate said. The Philippines was an American colony from 1898 to 1946.

The delegate described the atmosphere in the room as "quiet and shocked."

Another diplomat described the speech as "normal Duterte."

Describing Duterte's impromptu remarks as a "passionate intervention," the Department of Foreign Affairs said he "underscored the need to take a long historical view of human rights mindful of the atrocities against the ethnic people of Mindanao."

The DFA noted that the summit "is a forum for leaders to exchange views in an open, candid and frank manner."

"Now more than ever, Southeast Asia is faced with non traditional security issues including terrorism, drugs and human trafficking. The challenge for each country is to address these transnational threats in the context of their own socio-political situations and national history," read the DFA statement.

"Even as we continue to comply with our constitutional requirements in the observance of due process and respect for human rights, he is committed to combatting the spread of illegal drugs to ensure the security and well being of the next generation."

In response, Obama urged Duterte to conduct his crime war "the right way."

"We want to partner with the Philippines on the particular issue of narco-traffickers, which is a serious problem in the Philippines. It's a serious problem in the United States and around the world. On that narrow issue, we do want to make sure that the partnership we have is consistent with international norms and rule of law," he said.

"It is important from our perspective to make sure that we do it the right way, because the consequences of when you do it the wrong way is innocent people get hurt and you have a whole bunch of unintended consequences that don’t solve the problem."

Obama was quick to add that the rift with Duterte "has no impact on our broader relationship with the Philippine people, on the wide range of programs and security cooperation that we have with this treaty ally."

"My hope and expectation is, is that as President Duterte and his team get acclimated to his new position, that they're able to define and clarify what exactly they want to get done, how that fits in with the work that we're already doing with the Philippine government, and hopefully it will be on a strong footing by the time the next administration comes in," he added.

No Duterte-Obama handshake at East Asia Summit

quote:

MANILA – U.S. President Barack Obama did not shake hands with President Rodrigo Duterte during the East Asia Summit in Laos, a source present at the event confirmed.

Delegates were shocked after Duterte ditched his prepared speech and instead made a presentation on alleged human rights violations during the Philippine-American War.

Duterte launched into a tirade about U.S. military killings in the Philippines when it was an American colony from 1898 to 1946, according to three diplomats that Agence France-Presse spoke with who were in the room.

The source said Obama went the rounds at the summit, shaking each leader's hands, except that of Duterte's

Foreign Affairs Secretary Perfecto Yasay Jr. tried to downplay the incident when he talked to reporters in Jakarta, Indonesia, where Duterte is currently on a state visit.

Yasay said there was no time for Obama to shake Duterte's hands as the Philippine president had to leave the conference for his bilateral talks with Russia. When he got back to the meeting for the closing rites, Obama had already left.

However, he confirmed Duterte had a prepared speech for the 18-leader strong East Asia Summit, but decided to make a presentation on alleged human rights violations perpetrated by the U.S., saying the prepared speech was submitted to the body and will form part of the records of the ASEAN Summit

blackguy32
Oct 1, 2005

Say, do you know how to do the walk?
I have no doubts that some innocent people have been caught up in this. I mean, from what it sounds like, you can probably find someone you don't like, murder them, and simply say they were a drug pusher and get away with it.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

blackguy32 posted:

I have no doubts that some innocent people have been caught up in this. I mean, from what it sounds like, you can probably find someone you don't like, murder them, and simply say they were a drug pusher and get away with it.

There was an incident last month where a pair of men were riding on a motorcycle, when two police officers passed them. The men panicked, drew guns and engaged in a shoot-out with the police.

They both died in the shoot-out, and when their belongings were inspected, they found a sketch of a woman, a map to a specific house, and a piece of cardboard with "I AM A DRUG PUSHER" written on it.

So while that particular "hit" was averted, I have no doubt that murders like these have been successfully pulled off before.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

I'm trying to be wary of some of these articles because to some extent I do agree that our media is garbage--IIRC Obama himself said that the two of them had shaken hands--and I don't think we need to compound the fuel the pro-Duterte camp is using by getting suckered into linking these around. Duterte is doing a magnificent job of making himself and the Philippines look bad to other countries without the journalists who are trying to get clicks.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
President Duterte met with members of the Filipino community in Indonesia, where he gave a speech, and he went on a tirade, again.

quote:

MANILA - (UPDATED) In a meeting with the Filipino community during a visit to Indonesia on Friday, President Rodrigo Duterte denied calling US President Barack Obama a "son of a b****".

He also hit critics of extra-judicial killings allegedly done in the name of the government's war on illegal drugs, including United Nations (UN) Secretary Ban Ki-moon, and the US State Department.

"[I did not say son-of-a-whore. I said something, but], not in relation to Obama," he said, explaining that he was venting his frustration at questions from the media during a press conference last Monday prior to talks with ASEAN leaders and their dialogue partners in Laos.

Duterte said he met with Obama in passing, on the sidelines of the East Asian summit, and told the US president that he never called him a "son of a b****", and to check tapes of the press conference.

Obama earlier cancelled a bilateral meeting with Duterte in favor of one with South Korean President Park Geun-hye, but said later that he does not take the firebrand leader's words personally.

In a bid to stop talk regarding human rights violations in the country during the East Asian Summit, Duterte also said he presented photos of US military killings during the Philippines-America war at the turn of the century.

"[Yesterday, during the interactions with ASEAN, when everyone was there, in a round-table discussion]. This is [a violation of] human rights. What do you intend to do? Do not tell me that is water under the bridge," he said.

Human rights violations, Duterte said, are still human rights violations whether they were committed by Moses or Abraham.

"When did this philosophy about the human dignity and human rights evolve? Now, or during this time? [They should keep quiet]," he said.

The US State Department should also be careful in saying that it will bring up the issue of human rights with the Philippines, he said, adding it is unfair for the US to tell the Philippines to abide by human rights when it had not followed these either.

"[That State Department, they're like retards flocking together. It's like, if it's the Philippines, it's a violation. When it's the US, it's not]," he said.

Duterte did not spare UN Secretary Ban, whom he met in passing in Laos, in his criticisms.

"[Even Ban Ki-Moon, is interfering.]. He also gave a statement a few weeks ago, about the human rights violation. [I said, there goes another rear end in a top hat]," Duterte said, censuring the UN Secretary for allegedly avoiding further discussion with him.

However, Duterte reiterated that he has no quarrel with the US, despite the country giving the Philippines "principles of law and nothing else" when it comes to the issue of human rights.

Once again, [statements underlined in brackets are my own translation]

The specific insults used, were "ulol" for the State Department and "tarantado" for Ban Ki-Moon. I'm sure linguists will disagree as to how that will play out.

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

Wait, is he just muttering poo poo in Tagalog under his breath between phrases of English or are you just improving on the first translation?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

FAUXTON posted:

Wait, is he just muttering poo poo in Tagalog under his breath between phrases of English or are you just improving on the first translation?

Most people speak in straight English, or straight Filipino, especially in a formal setting. Duterte's prepared State of the Nation Address was in full English. His predecessor delivered all his SONAs in Filipino.

Taglish is what happens when you're not fluent enough with either to use it 100% of the time, so you keep jumping back and forth between the two, sometimes even within the same sentence.

That's what's happening here.

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

gradenko_2000 posted:

Most people speak in straight English, or straight Filipino, especially in a formal setting. Duterte's prepared State of the Nation Address was in full English. His predecessor delivered all his SONAs in Filipino.

Taglish is what happens when you're not fluent enough with either to use it 100% of the time, so you keep jumping back and forth between the two, sometimes even within the same sentence.

That's what's happening here.

That sounds like a diplomatic nightmare with someone like Duterte, being as much of a colossal rear end in a top hat as he is. Just gladhanding smiling dignitaries in English while guffawing about said dignitaries' wives/daughters in Filipino right there in front of them, poo poo like that.

Of course, it would be more of an observation if it didn't already cause a little dust-up in Laos.

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

Here's to the new us.
So apparently Duterte has already pulled the "Oh, I don't want this power but the people insist!" trick. Is it a safe assumption that senator's proposed suspension of habeas corpus is the same approach?

I'm also really confused how suspending habeas corpus makes a justice system less corrupt and EJK-prone, but I guess my non-Filipino mind doesn't grasp such legal subtleties.

NLJP
Aug 26, 2004


1stGear posted:

So apparently Duterte has already pulled the "Oh, I don't want this power but the people insist!" trick. Is it a safe assumption that senator's proposed suspension of habeas corpus is the same approach?

I'm also really confused how suspending habeas corpus makes a justice system less corrupt and EJK-prone, but I guess my non-Filipino mind doesn't grasp such legal subtleties.

It's like when cops on TV rant about defence attorneys and how they're loving the case up because we KNOW he's guilty. Just let the Good Guys do their job already.

It's horseshit but a lot of people eat it up. A lot of people hate the idea of what they consider criminals getting a fair trial. See how influential 24 was on certain american policymakers...

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

1stGear posted:

So apparently Duterte has already pulled the "Oh, I don't want this power but the people insist!" trick. Is it a safe assumption that senator's proposed suspension of habeas corpus is the same approach?

I'm also really confused how suspending habeas corpus makes a justice system less corrupt and EJK-prone, but I guess my non-Filipino mind doesn't grasp such legal subtleties.

One of the big bullet points of the Duterte campaign was "results, right now, at any price". Like, Duterte's gone on record as saying that if he was elected, he would wage a "bloody" war on drugs.

(this is actually a talking point that's used to deflect when debating EJKs: "He said it would be bloody, but we elected him anyway, and now it's bloody, what did you expect? Might as well ride it out", but I digress)

So like, he's only been in office a month and he's already implemented a nation-wide 911, and he's already implemented a Freedom of Information Executive Order (but not a bill), and any number of other things that he's been able to direct people to do right away, as long as it falls under the purview of the Executive. Duterte gets things done, and gets things done quickly! is the order of the day.

Unfortunately, not everything is under Executive control, and when it isn't, he tries to put it under Executive control, such as bypassing due process.

Traffic is another thing: Duterte requested that Congress please give him emergency powers to solve the traffic problem in Manila, and that was being deliberated upon in the Senate last month.

Senator Gordon's proposal to grant the President emergency powers and suspend habeas corpus is ultimately another branch of that line of thinking: it's going to take too long to win the War on Drugs with the bureaucracy in the way, so let's please lift all this red tape and let the President do it.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
My dictatorship is the only good dictatorship

CronoGamer
May 15, 2004

why did this happen

gradenko_2000 posted:

One of the big bullet points of the Duterte campaign was "results, right now, at any price". Like, Duterte's gone on record as saying that if he was elected, he would wage a "bloody" war on drugs.

(this is actually a talking point that's used to deflect when debating EJKs: "He said it would be bloody, but we elected him anyway, and now it's bloody, what did you expect? Might as well ride it out", but I digress)

So like, he's only been in office a month and he's already implemented a nation-wide 911, and he's already implemented a Freedom of Information Executive Order (but not a bill), and any number of other things that he's been able to direct people to do right away, as long as it falls under the purview of the Executive. Duterte gets things done, and gets things done quickly! is the order of the day.

Unfortunately, not everything is under Executive control, and when it isn't, he tries to put it under Executive control, such as bypassing due process.

Traffic is another thing: Duterte requested that Congress please give him emergency powers to solve the traffic problem in Manila, and that was being deliberated upon in the Senate last month.

Senator Gordon's proposal to grant the President emergency powers and suspend habeas corpus is ultimately another branch of that line of thinking: it's going to take too long to win the War on Drugs with the bureaucracy in the way, so let's please lift all this red tape and let the President do it.

It seems obvious, but for a good picture of how he would like the presidency to operate, look at how he ran the show as mayor in Davao for 20-some-odd years. The city council was a rubber stamp body and anything he wanted to do (curfew, smoking ban, death squads) just happened because he willed it so. Now he wants to do the same thing but for the whole country, and when the Senate gets in his way/questions things like De Lima, you see his reaction.

I would absolutely not bet against him declaring a revolutionary government and dissolving Congress.

Ceiling fan
Dec 26, 2003

I really like ceilings.
Dead Man’s Band
If the Catholic Church starts objecting to human rights abuses, would that carry much weight in the Philippines these days? And are the local and national Church leaders inclined to do something like that or are they tied up too closely with the political establishment favoring President Duterte?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

CronoGamer posted:

It seems obvious, but for a good picture of how he would like the presidency to operate, look at how he ran the show as mayor in Davao for 20-some-odd years. The city council was a rubber stamp body and anything he wanted to do (curfew, smoking ban, death squads) just happened because he willed it so. Now he wants to do the same thing but for the whole country, and when the Senate gets in his way/questions things like De Lima, you see his reaction.

I would absolutely not bet against him declaring a revolutionary government and dissolving Congress.

Yeah, that's pretty bang-on. Duterte doesn't know how to work with things like "other departments" and "other people". What he says, goes, and he pitches a fit whenever someone says he can't have it his way.

Ceiling fan posted:

If the Catholic Church starts objecting to human rights abuses, would that carry much weight in the Philippines these days? And are the local and national Church leaders inclined to do something like that or are they tied up too closely with the political establishment favoring President Duterte?

I couldn't say for sure. The country is still very Catholic, but at the same time the church is very establishment, and very corrupt (like most everything in the Philippines). Some of our Bishops have already spoken out against human rights abuses, but much like pointing out America's ugly side of the Filipino-American War, Duterte then points out that "the church are a bunch of kiddy-diddlers" and "the church spends all your donations on nice cars for priests" and deflates the argument.

During the EDSA Revolution that overthrew Ferdinand Marcos, the Church was critical towards mobilizing people against the dictator, but we're a long ways away from that.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747
How long until Duterte makes an alliance with the DPRK?

Bobbin Threadbare
Jan 2, 2009

I'm looking for a flock of urbanmechs.

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

How long until Duterte makes an alliance with the DPRK?

One positive thing about intensely nationalistic regimes is that they tend to be mutually antagonistic more often than not. They can form alliance blocs from time to time, but they don't last the way, say, NATO has.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
The big news over this weekend was the killing of a woman, the sister of a popular local celebrity, in an upscale neighborhood in Manila.

There was a ubiquitous piece of cardboard placed next to her body, saying "drug pushers of celebrities, you're next!", but according to the police, she was not on any drug watchlist, although there were drugs and drug-paraphernalia found on her body.

.

Another story that developed was the government's Official Gazette making a commemorative celebratory acknowledgement of the birthday of former Philippine dictator Ferdinand Marcos Sr.

I caught a screencap of the second revision:

In the very first post, the last sentence read:

quote:

In 1986, Marcos stepped down from the presidency to avoid bloodshed during the uprising that came to be known as 'People Power.

And then the final one that they left up:


As the issue boiled over late into Sunday evening, their office then made the following statement:



A news article on this issue.

A follow-up article with regards to the link between the Official Gazette's new management under the Duterte administration, specifically that one of their employees used to be involved with the 2016 Vice Presidential campaign of Ferdinand Marcos Jr.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
And in other news, the Philippines has been trying for years to save the life of Mary Jane Veloso, sentenced to death for smuggling drugs into Indonesia. Poor people being duped into moving product is a relatively common phenomenon in the Philippines due to our incredibly high volume of OFWs (overseas foreign workers); she wasn't the first, and she won't be the last.

Duterte said he'd bring up the issue in his meeting with President Widodo, which he did--but everyone kind of thought he'd speak in favor of her. Instead, he greenlit her execution with a fairly unambiguous "Please go ahead if you want to execute her."

I have to hand it to him, at least he's consistent in wanting people involved in drugs dead. Now, I wonder how many nationalistic Duterte supporters were also clamoring to save her, and how they're dealing with Duterte forcibly shattering their doublethink.

Edit: As I posted this, this article went up, saying he did NOT give them a go-ahead. so lol I don't even know if it's just that our media is poo poo or if this is more of their spin factory

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
The official line being spouted by the administration seems to be that Duterte didn't "endorse" the execution, so much as simply allow the Indonesians to do as they wished, in accordance with their laws:

https://twitter.com/tinapperez/status/775240781321805826

And reflecting upon this Sep 9 article on Duterte's meeting with Widodo, that may well have been exactly the case:

quote:

President Rodrigo Duterte took up convicted drug mule Mary Jane Veloso’s case during his tête-à-tête with Indonesia President Joko Widodo at the Istana Merdeka in Jakarta on Friday.

But he refused to give details of their conversation on the fate of Veloso who remained on death row in Indonesia’s prison after being saved a by a last-minute reprieve from her scheduled death by firing squad in May 2015 from an appeal by then President Benigno Aquino III.

“Not for public consumption,” said the President in a short talk with media after concluding his meeting with Widodo.

Pressed on to comment on whether he exchanged notes with Widodo on antidrug measures, the President said: “No, I said that we will continue to respect each other’s judicial processes. The rule of law is what matters, gives order to the community.”

Foreign Affairs Secretary Perfecto Yasay Jr. said both governments felt no urgency to take action in the case as she had been taken off the execution schedule indefinitely at the moment.



EDIT: You're almost certainly going to see the administration trying to fire back at this by claiming the media is out to get them by unfairly depicting the President's remarks as a "go-signal", by splitting hairs and claiming it was "only" a "do as you will" agreement with Indonesia.



And, for a bit of USPol crossover:

https://twitter.com/gmanews/status/775246583860305920

gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Sep 12, 2016

Kurtofan
Feb 16, 2011

hon hon hon
The Philippines: Death is Certain

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug
Judge Dredd's Vacation Home for Wayward Vigilantes

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
I've been playing Ace Attorney 6 and I've never been so riled up by a Phoenix Wright game before; in this one he goes to a country where accused criminals are sentenced to death following a sham of a trial, people who try to defend these criminals are reviled for abetting them, and in a later case you have to solve a series of vigilante killings, and the vigilante turns out to be a government stooge

Not to mention that the setting, Khurain, uses the same Filipino convention of adding an "h" to an established proper noun to make it sound more exotic

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Volcott
Mar 30, 2010

People paying American dollars to let other people know they didn't agree with someone's position on something is the lifeblood of these forums.

Argue posted:

I've been playing Ace Attorney 6 and I've never been so riled up by a Phoenix Wright game before; in this one he goes to a country where accused criminals are sentenced to death following a sham of a trial, people who try to defend these criminals are reviled for abetting them, and in a later case you have to solve a series of vigilante killings, and the vigilante turns out to be a government stooge

Not to mention that the setting, Khurain, uses the same Filipino convention of adding an "h" to an established proper noun to make it sound more exotic

Is that the one where you prove your defendant is innocent, but they're still going to find him guilty unless you, a defense attorney, find the actual criminal?

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