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https://twitter.com/OfficialGovPH/status/775259240025976832 The Foreign Affairs Secretary has some huge fuckin' balls accusing the head-of-state of another country of being the one that's taking the President out-of-context.
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Sep 12, 2016 16:36
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Perfecto 👌🏽
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Sep 12, 2016 22:54
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This was published a few years back and seems to be eerily prescient and applicable to the state of affairs in the Philippines:quote:But while governments all use the idiom of human rights, they use it to make radically different arguments about how countries should behave. China cites “the right to development” to explain why the Chinese government gives priority to economic growth over political liberalisation. Many countries cite the “right to security,” a catch-all idea that protection from crime justifies harsh enforcement methods. Vladimir Putin cited the rights of ethnic minorities in Ukraine in order to justify his military intervention there, just as the United States cited Saddam Hussein’s suppression of human rights in order to build support for the Iraq war. Certain Islamic countries cite the right to religious freedom in order to explain why women must be subordinated, arguing that women must play the role set out for them in Islamic law. The right of “self‑determination” can be invoked to convert foreign pressure against a human-rights violating country into a violation of that country’s right to determine its destiny. The language of rights, untethered to specific legal interpretations, is too spongy to prevent governments from committing abuses and can easily be used to clothe illiberal agendas in words soothing to the western ear.
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Sep 12, 2016 23:23
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gradenko_2000 posted:The official line being spouted by the administration seems to be that Duterte didn't "endorse" the execution, so much as simply allow the Indonesians to do as they wished, in accordance with their laws: “No, I said that we will continue to respect each other’s judicial processes. The rule of law is what matters, gives order to the community.” lol
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Sep 13, 2016 07:11
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KingEup posted:This was published a few years back and seems to be eerily prescient and applicable to the state of affairs in the Philippines: Cmon Duterte, all you gotta do is deploy that lawyer training and use your words to hide your intentions better. The fact he does the opposite of that kind of reassures me that honesty is what's driving all of his social interactions. EJKs are still a sin though, of course.
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Sep 13, 2016 09:35
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And here we go again. "Duterte to US forces: Get out of southern Philippines Days after saying he was "not a fan of the Americans", the president says he wants to "reorient" foreign policy with US." http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/duterte-forces-southern-philippines-160913003704576.html
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Sep 13, 2016 13:23
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Tarantula posted:And here we go again. And the Secretary of Foreign Affair's explanation: https://twitter.com/ANCALERTS/status/775489322883481600
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Sep 13, 2016 13:54
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This is gonna blow your mind but... Is Duterte on drugs?
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Sep 13, 2016 14:04
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The handling of that story has been an utter clusterfuck: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/581152/news/nation/yasay-says-phl-to-respect-honor-commitments-with-us quote:"The President has said, even as a priority statement in his inaugural address, that we will respect and continue to honor our treaty obligations and commitments particularly even with the US," Foreign Affairs Secretary Perfecto Yasay told a radio interview on Tuesday. http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/09/13/16/palace-us-troops-must-go-a-warning-not-a-directive quote:MANILA - President Rodrigo Duterte's pronouncement that United States forces staying the Philippines "must go" is neither a policy nor a directive, but a "warning," Palace officials clarified Tuesday noon. . And this next part I'm going to point out is still a developing story from late today, but if it has any weight at all, then the administration is letting the mask slip and is being really unsubtle: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/581218/news/nation/duterte-no-longer-wants-to-join-expeditions-of-patrolling-seas quote:Following pronouncements that he will pursue his own independent foreign policy, President Rodrigo Duterte on Tuesday said he no longer wants to be involved in joint patrols. http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/09/13/16/duterte-deals-with-china-russia-in-the-pipeline MANILA – The Philippines is looking at getting military equipment from China and Russia, President Rodrigo Duterte said Tuesday evening. Speaking in front of members of the Philippine Air Force at Villamor Air Base in Pasay City, Duterte said possible deals with Russia and China are "in the pipeline" and that "offers are coming in." However, he did not discuss what the details of the proposals. Duterte also said China offered airplanes to the Philippines because Beijing is "worried" about him. "[China said they are worried about me. So they offered to give airplanes]," he said. He added that China may have offered military equipment because Beijing is "also thinking of the other guy," referring to the United States, with which he clarified the Philippines is not cutting military ties. "[It is already there]. Who am I to [do away with] a treaty?" he said. However, the country will also be "independent" and will welcome other possibilities when it comes to procuring equipment or weaponry for the armed forces. "[If we want to buy from one source, if it's free, why won't we take it? Thanks. Here, mayor, we will give you an airplane. I will give that to the Air Force, you should use that]," he said.
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Sep 13, 2016 14:04
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So, what's the average Filipinos take on this?
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Sep 13, 2016 14:13
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Please don't turn us into the new Muslims, Duterte.
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Sep 13, 2016 14:40
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Broken Cog posted:So, what's the average Filipinos take on this? I think someone posted up thread in depth about it and the TLDR is that it's complicated. There's a real "right to law and order at any price" thread to public sentiment that he likes to tug on frequently, and for anyone versed in history it's pretty scary, but there's enough people afraid of the world (see: drug trade, terrorism, etc) to rationalize someone who will be seen as punching back at the evils they see in the world. Even if it's all a sham and a bald-faced power grab. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 14:49
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What would it take for the US to, say, start rolling back worker visas and the like for Filipinos as a way of punishing or embarrassing Duerte? IIRC, the Philippines factored pretty heavily into Obama's whole "pivot to Asia" policy, and it's still a priority despite the lackluster reception from the public here, so I can't imagine that anyone in the administration is pleased with any of this.
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Sep 13, 2016 14:59
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Broken Cog posted:So, what's the average Filipinos take on this? I'm afraid I may not have an "average" perspective on this, as I'm very much a lefty/liberal and did not vote for him. A big part of why I'm contributing to this thread so heavily is because I am very much worried about the future of my country. My father survived Martial Law, but many of his friends did not, and I don't wish to see something like that happen again. Public sentiment is fairly well-divided on two fronts: you're either pretty well horrified of the President's clumsy-at-best attempts at foreign policy and fearing that he's selling out to the Chinese at the expense of the Americans, or you're buying into the line of the "biased media" and accepting the administration's line about how the Americans have never apologized for the Filipino-American War (because they haven't, TBF). It's just that that latter group heavily outnumbers the former, as far as I can tell. There's no real opposition party right now, and the country is woefully underequipped to deal with astroturfing of political goals and agendas. Rap Record Hoarder posted:What would it take for the US to, say, start rolling back worker visas and the like for Filipinos as a way of punishing or embarrassing Duerte? IIRC, the Philippines factored pretty heavily into Obama's whole "pivot to Asia" policy, and it's still a priority despite the lackluster reception from the public here, so I can't imagine that anyone in the administration is pleased with any of this. I would have to disagree with that strategy, as sanctioning the Philippines will only harden the belief that the Americans actually are out to get us.
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Sep 13, 2016 15:03
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I suspect the "average" Filipino didn't vote for Duterte either. I've mentioned this before but the majority of his votes probably came from the frustrated middle class than from the poor, who constitute a majority of the population. I would think they were worried given all the stuff that's been happening lately, but I honestly don't know what the opinion among them is; my friends are by and large middle class, and opinion seems split based on my FB feed, but that's probably due to liberals tending to associate with liberals and the pro-Duterte people (I have a surprising amount of pro-Duterte liberals on my feed) being incredibly vocal.
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Sep 13, 2016 15:11
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The social media aspect of all of this is both really interesting and very confusing. The Duterte cheerleaders (cringingly dubbed 'Dutertards' by opponents) were rabid during the election, swamping all the polls in his favor, blasting media sources for bias, etc. They're still very active, faithfully defending all of his actions against any sliver of criticism, but the anti-duterte crowd has also swollen, really in the last two weeks, so there are major clashes on FB and on the comments sections of a lot of stories. I'm seeing much more negative sentiment against him than ever before. But there are also allegations from each side that the other is paying a decoted social media attack squad. I've heard experts on PH talk about the Duterte team paying commenters, akin to the Chinese 50 cent trolls. But Rappler had some interesting data during the election showing suspicious patterns of social media support (in polls especially) for Mar Roxas, the previous president's chosen heir, that traced back to clickfarms in India and Bangladesh. There's a weird war going on in the comments sections that really inteigues me.
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Sep 13, 2016 19:39
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The thing that I find so amazing about all of this is how transparently obvious it is that Duterte is behaving exactly like any other stereotypical dictator. I can't understand how a person who has attended school and learned even the slightest bit about world history could hear his rhetoric and think "yes, this is totally fine and good." It honestly seems like a significant portion of the population there would support virtually any atrocity Duterte chooses to commit, as long as he gives some half-baked explanation about how it's helping the war on drugs. Even though it should be obvious, it's still kind of spooky to be reminded that people are still vulnerable to being manipulated into supporting such terrible things.
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Sep 13, 2016 19:46
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My organization had planned on drilling a site in Philippines waters on our upcoming expedition but that has been canceled. Not sure if it was because of security concerns or if maybe permission to drill the site was pulled by the government. Though we're still going to have a Filipino observer aboard from the National Institute of Geosciences. Not sure why anymore. We may also relocate a planned tie-up of our vessel from Subic Bay next summer to probably Keelung, evidently. That's my story about Philippines, thanks for reading.
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Sep 13, 2016 20:34
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Who in the Philippines would support some kind of strategic pivot to China? Surely the maritime claims issues make the PRC poison to right wing nationalists. This is just lazy rhetoric to upset the US right?
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Sep 13, 2016 21:53
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Ytlaya posted:The thing that I find so amazing about all of this is how transparently obvious it is that Duterte is behaving exactly like any other stereotypical dictator. I can't understand how a person who has attended school and learned even the slightest bit about world history could hear his rhetoric and think "yes, this is totally fine and good." Hello and welcome to the something awful dot com forums. Were you expecting the Philippines to reject a presidential candidate based on the musings of a bunch of white college-educated males born between 1980 and 1990? I think it would take a little more than "the slightest bit" of education to be able to think critically about Duterte's true intentions. Reminder that he was a lawyer--why isn't he being more coy with his wording and message if he wants to become a dictator? I think he's just honestly angry at the drug situation. EJKs are still a sin though, of course
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Sep 14, 2016 00:00
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ModernMajorGeneral posted:Who in the Philippines would support some kind of strategic pivot to China? Surely the maritime claims issues make the PRC poison to right wing nationalists. This is just lazy rhetoric to upset the US right? Not many. Pew surveys from last year put PH approval of China somewhere below 50%. Approval of the US was at around 90 -- higher than even US citizens' approval of the US. The drug war garners a lot of support but this is much less popular-- but that's of course why he didn't say these things on the campaign trail.
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Sep 14, 2016 00:30
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Reminder that he was a lawyer--why isn't he being more coy with his wording and message if he wants to become a dictator? I think he's just honestly angry at the drug situation. Then why did he do that whole set of political maneuvering that was described earlier in the thread that got him in the position of becoming a candidate for the presidency without explicitly running for office and while claiming he didn't really want it? And it's not just white people musing on another nation's business here; there are plenty of Filipinos in this thread discussing it, including the OP.
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Sep 14, 2016 00:36
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Ytlaya posted:The thing that I find so amazing about all of this is how transparently obvious it is that Duterte is behaving exactly like any other stereotypical dictator. I can't understand how a person who has attended school and learned even the slightest bit about world history could hear his rhetoric and think "yes, this is totally fine and good." The story I'd like to share are of my middle-class friends, who were all really against the Vice Presidential run of Ferdinand Marcos Jr., but have complete blinders on when it comes to Duterte as being totally different. And then of course there's also the people who wanted a Duterte/Marcos tandem as a "let's go all in on fascism" ticket, because apparently the country needs that level of "discipline" Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Reminder that he was a lawyer--why isn't he being more coy with his wording and message if he wants to become a dictator? I think he's just honestly angry at the drug situation. This is purely conjecture on my part, but I suspect that Duterte is a lot more "uncontrollable" than his handlers initially expected. A lot of these "gaffes" are being made when he does a fairly routine ceremonial visit, has a hot mic in front of him, and then he speaks off the cuff, and the speech invariably has a policy pronouncement that comes out of left field that the Press Secretary and the Foreign Affairs Secretary then have to scramble to "clarify". Combine this with the Press Secretary and the Foreign Affairs Secretary being cronyist appointments who're not all that good at their jobs, and end up with a mess. Even in the longer-term view, I think it was likely that the political clique of former President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo tapped Duterte as a candidate that they could run and win to get them all back into the halls of power: they get reappointed into the cabinet and can have the President rubber-stamp their conservative economic policy, and in exchange he gets a free hand in domestic affairs - make the Davao anti-crime campaign nationwide. The President maybe isn't acting as circumspect and as subtle as they might like, but the repercussions and regrets haven't started to sink in yet.
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Sep 14, 2016 00:53
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gradenko_2000 posted:This is purely conjecture on my part, but I suspect that Duterte is a lot more "uncontrollable" than his handlers initially expected. A lot of these "gaffes" are being made when he does a fairly routine ceremonial visit, has a hot mic in front of him, and then he speaks off the cuff, and the speech invariably has a policy pronouncement that comes out of left field that the Press Secretary and the Foreign Affairs Secretary then have to scramble to "clarify". I'm leaning more and more this way the more time Duterte spends in front of a mic. I can actually understand the points he wants to make when he ad libs, but he has a talent for saying them in the worst way possible and in the easiest way for media to misinterpret or manipulate. Case in point the original 'cussing at Obama' speech. It doesn't help that his cabinet, in their haste to keep his mouth from getting him into more trouble, release statements that end up contradicting each other and causing even more loving confusion.
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Sep 14, 2016 01:08
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I don't know why it's only being reported on now (okay, it's probably because Duterte overshadowed everything), but in other news, the reproductive health bill, which was the subject of much controversy (from conservatives, of course), and which was passed last year, is still nowhere near implementation. We've had a long and sordid history with reproductive health--this bill, in its original form, is older than many of the constituents that it aimed to help. After much handwringing, the bill was finally approved last year--and almost immediately put on hold by the Supreme Court until they can verify that it's safe... or moral, or whatever. So in practice, we're essentially back to square one on reproductive health. http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/815108/sc-puts-rh-law-on-hold quote:The SC ruling issued on Aug. 24 means the 400,000 subdermal contraceptive implants—including Implanon and Implanon NXT, supposedly the most effective forms of birth control—that former Health Secretary Janet Garin had procured at P500 each, or one-tenth of the P5,000 market price with the help of the Gates’ foundation, would remain in government warehouses unless the DOH and FDA can convince anti-abortion groups they are not abortifacients. Part of the bill was to provide easier access to contraceptives for those who couldn't afford it, but this was seen as contributing to a "contraceptive mentality", a very vaguely defined notion of immorality that enables promiscuity and promotes a "culture of death", so now the onus is on them that these will not allow someone to easily terminate a pregnancy after the moment of conception. I probably have a bunch of posts about this whole business in the SE Asia thread. And believe me, we need contraceptives (and good sex ed, which the bill also favors) really badly.
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Sep 14, 2016 02:48
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gradenko_2000 posted:MANILA – The Philippines is looking at getting military equipment from China and Russia, President Rodrigo Duterte said Tuesday evening.
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Sep 14, 2016 04:50
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Y-Hat posted:This just sounds like chest thumping to me. Haven't the Philippines and China been in a territorial dispute for a couple of years? Yes, but that was under the Aquino administration. There's a marked difference between that and the Duterte administration's handling of the Spratly's affair, and between their treatment of China vs the US in general.
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Sep 14, 2016 04:54
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Does the PLA Navy have dirt on this guy? Why the hell would he pivot to a country with whom he has a huge territorial dispute?
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Sep 14, 2016 05:25
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There's no loving way that the Chinese and Russians are offering to sell weapons to a US treaty ally currently embroiled in a territorial dispute with one of them.
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Sep 14, 2016 05:32
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Fojar38 posted:There's no loving way that the Chinese and Russians are offering to sell weapons to a US treaty ally currently embroiled in a territorial dispute with one of them.
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Sep 14, 2016 07:52
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lol the police have a drug bust quota to meetquote:ILOILO CITY, Philippines — Politics has nothing to do with the relief of 62 chiefs of police in Western Visayas, an official of the Police Regional Office-6 said yesterday.
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Sep 14, 2016 08:07
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Ersatz posted:I don't believe it either, but I'm sure that China would be more than happy to sell weapons, and a lot more, in exchange for Filipino recognition of the "nine dash line." It's hard to overstate the importance of that particular territorial dispute to China. True, but I doubt even Duterte would be dumb enough to agree to that considering how big of an issue the Spratlys is to the public, not to mention Bajo de Masinloc/Scarborough Shoal.
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Sep 14, 2016 08:14
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That really sounds like it would have a McNamara-esque "perverse incentives" effect on the conduct of police operations. sincx posted:Does the PLA Navy have dirt on this guy? Why the hell would he pivot to a country with whom he has a huge territorial dispute? I don't really get it either - being a tough, Putin-esque/Reagan-esque figure that would stand up to the Chinese and make them back down from their claims in the Spratlys was another campaign bullet point, so him treating the Chinese with kid gloves is baffling since it's otherwise a great source of political capital via nationalism.
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Sep 14, 2016 08:20
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Argue posted:I don't know why it's only being reported on now (okay, it's probably because Duterte overshadowed everything), but in other news, the reproductive health bill, which was the subject of much controversy (from conservatives, of course), and which was passed last year, is still nowhere near implementation. We've had a long and sordid history with reproductive health--this bill, in its original form, is older than many of the constituents that it aimed to help. After much handwringing, the bill was finally approved last year--and almost immediately put on hold by the Supreme Court until they can verify that it's safe... or moral, or whatever. So in practice, we're essentially back to square one on reproductive health. The Catholic Church: holding back the advancement of humanity since 312 AD.
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Sep 14, 2016 09:02
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Ersatz posted:I don't believe it either, but I'm sure that China would be more than happy to sell weapons, and a lot more, in exchange for Filipino recognition of the "nine dash line." It's hard to overstate the importance of that particular territorial dispute to China. We have a double expedition next year, sponsored by China, in the SCS nearer the Paracel Islands, nominally for the purposes of studying thinning of the lithosphere in continental breakup, but almost certainly the core data we obtain is sure to appear in support of their claim at some point down the line.
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Sep 14, 2016 14:52
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They won't sell weapons to the Philippines for the same reason that the US doesn't sell weapons to countries with close ties to Russia or China; it's basically saying "Hey, geopolitical rivals! Come and analyze all our military gear!" Not that the US has trouble doing this already for most Chinese and Russian equipment, but still.
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Sep 14, 2016 22:45
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A Filipino former militiaman testified before the country’s Senate on Thursday that President Rodrigo Duterte, when he was still a city mayor, ordered him and other members of a liquidation squad to kill criminals and opponents in gangland-style assaults that left about 1,000 dead. Edgar Matobato told the nationally televised Senate committee hearing that he heard Duterte order some of the killings. Matobato acknowledged he himself carried out about 50 of the abductions and deadly assaults, including a man who was fed to a crocodile in 2007 in southern Davao city. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/15/philippines-president-drug-dealers-rodrigo-duterte-extrajudicial-killings-crocodile 
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Sep 15, 2016 08:12
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Argue posted:I don't know why it's only being reported on now (okay, it's probably because Duterte overshadowed everything), but in other news, the reproductive health bill, which was the subject of much controversy (from conservatives, of course), and which was passed last year, is still nowhere near implementation. We've had a long and sordid history with reproductive health--this bill, in its original form, is older than many of the constituents that it aimed to help. After much handwringing, the bill was finally approved last year--and almost immediately put on hold by the Supreme Court until they can verify that it's safe... or moral, or whatever. So in practice, we're essentially back to square one on reproductive health. This is interesting to read for me, as I did my MA thesis on the RH bill as a guest researcher in Manila back in 2009, but kind of lost touch on the subject. Living in Manila, even just for a semester, makes me realize just a tiny bit how much more complex these issues are. I think it is hard to understand just how fertile the ground is for anti-crime and anti-terrorist populism is if you havent experienced how extremely militarized cities like Manila is - extreme segregation, poverty, shotgun-armed guards outside the shops, and just the constant presence of weapons that makes you feel like you're in a war zone at times, not a metropolitan city. But yeah, regarding the Catholic Church in PH: a friend of mine did his thesis on mobilization of farmers for democracy walks, and I did mine on the RH Bill. It's amazing how disparate our views on the Catholic church was afterwards, and whether it provides a ray of hope or is bringer of catastrophy for the Filipino people. I do think that if he had been part of my fieldwork at the Jose Fabella Maternity Ward, he might have changed his mind. Here's an article with some pictures: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2001422/Busiest-maternity-ward-planet-averages-60-babies-day-mothers-bed.html lilljonas fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 15, 2016 12:20
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SynthOrange posted:A Filipino former militiaman testified before the country’s Senate on Thursday that President Rodrigo Duterte, when he was still a city mayor, ordered him and other members of a liquidation squad to kill criminals and opponents in gangland-style assaults that left about 1,000 dead. If I were Matobato I would be very concerned for my life right now. If his testimony bears out or leads to any concrete evidence the LP will push hard for impeachment on this to get Duterte out of office.
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Sep 15, 2016 14:05
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I'd consider impeachment to be a distant possibility even if Matobato turns out to be an absolute slam-dunk (which he won't be, the campaign to discredit him has already begun and he's only human, with a standard flawed human memory). Impeachment proceedings are initiated in the House, and the current Speaker is from the same party as the President (PDP-Laban), and they have a nominal majority in Congress after most people switched parties.
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Sep 15, 2016 17:49
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