The Philippines: Forget everything you thought you knew about human rights

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gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I'm trying to imagine an American President, from either party, proposing that they very violently violate Posse Comitatus, and I can't imagine that going over too well.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2016 09:04

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 14:12

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Manila's traffic is legendarily bad*, and Duterte ran on a platform promising that he'll fix it, by God.

There's deliberations in the Senate to give the President emergency powers to solve the traffic situation. I don't really know what that means.

* that's not really a scientific study of traffic, but it gets the point across.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2016 15:45

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Argue posted:

This is his defense of his bill proposing to give the president emergency powers, including suspension of writ of habeas corpus.

Logic is essentially: if you hate extrajudicial killing so much, why don't you support my idea? it would allow the police to arrest people without a warrant so there wouldn't be as much violence. but don't worry because it will have restraints!

I was afraid of that.

The 1987 Constitution has a bunch of checks and balances against Martial Law, but that poo poo don't work if Congress is packed with sycophants that agree with the President.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2016 03:36

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Duterte veers off speech, launches tirade on US killings in front of Obama

quote:

In what attendees described as a "fiery address," President Rodrigo Duterte veered off his prepared speech on Thursday at a meeting of the 18-nation East Asia group including United States President Barack Obama to launch a tirade on US military killings in the Philippines.

This was according to three diplomats who were in the room who spoke to Agence France-Presse at the event in Vientiane, Laos.

"The Philippine president showed a picture of the killings of American soldiers in the past and the president said: 'This is my ancestor they killed. Why now we are talking about human rights,'" an Indonesian delegate said. The Philippines was an American colony from 1898 to 1946.

The delegate described the atmosphere in the room as "quiet and shocked."

Another diplomat described the speech as "normal Duterte."

Describing Duterte's impromptu remarks as a "passionate intervention," the Department of Foreign Affairs said he "underscored the need to take a long historical view of human rights mindful of the atrocities against the ethnic people of Mindanao."

The DFA noted that the summit "is a forum for leaders to exchange views in an open, candid and frank manner."

"Now more than ever, Southeast Asia is faced with non traditional security issues including terrorism, drugs and human trafficking. The challenge for each country is to address these transnational threats in the context of their own socio-political situations and national history," read the DFA statement.

"Even as we continue to comply with our constitutional requirements in the observance of due process and respect for human rights, he is committed to combatting the spread of illegal drugs to ensure the security and well being of the next generation."

In response, Obama urged Duterte to conduct his crime war "the right way."

"We want to partner with the Philippines on the particular issue of narco-traffickers, which is a serious problem in the Philippines. It's a serious problem in the United States and around the world. On that narrow issue, we do want to make sure that the partnership we have is consistent with international norms and rule of law," he said.

"It is important from our perspective to make sure that we do it the right way, because the consequences of when you do it the wrong way is innocent people get hurt and you have a whole bunch of unintended consequences that don�t solve the problem."

Obama was quick to add that the rift with Duterte "has no impact on our broader relationship with the Philippine people, on the wide range of programs and security cooperation that we have with this treaty ally."

"My hope and expectation is, is that as President Duterte and his team get acclimated to his new position, that they're able to define and clarify what exactly they want to get done, how that fits in with the work that we're already doing with the Philippine government, and hopefully it will be on a strong footing by the time the next administration comes in," he added.

No Duterte-Obama handshake at East Asia Summit

quote:

MANILA � U.S. President Barack Obama did not shake hands with President Rodrigo Duterte during the East Asia Summit in Laos, a source present at the event confirmed.

Delegates were shocked after Duterte ditched his prepared speech and instead made a presentation on alleged human rights violations during the Philippine-American War.

Duterte launched into a tirade about U.S. military killings in the Philippines when it was an American colony from 1898 to 1946, according to three diplomats that Agence France-Presse spoke with who were in the room.

The source said Obama went the rounds at the summit, shaking each leader's hands, except that of Duterte's

Foreign Affairs Secretary Perfecto Yasay Jr. tried to downplay the incident when he talked to reporters in Jakarta, Indonesia, where Duterte is currently on a state visit.

Yasay said there was no time for Obama to shake Duterte's hands as the Philippine president had to leave the conference for his bilateral talks with Russia. When he got back to the meeting for the closing rites, Obama had already left.

However, he confirmed Duterte had a prepared speech for the 18-leader strong East Asia Summit, but decided to make a presentation on alleged human rights violations perpetrated by the U.S., saying the prepared speech was submitted to the body and will form part of the records of the ASEAN Summit

# ¿ Sep 9, 2016 06:07

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

blackguy32 posted:

I have no doubts that some innocent people have been caught up in this. I mean, from what it sounds like, you can probably find someone you don't like, murder them, and simply say they were a drug pusher and get away with it.

There was an incident last month where a pair of men were riding on a motorcycle, when two police officers passed them. The men panicked, drew guns and engaged in a shoot-out with the police.

They both died in the shoot-out, and when their belongings were inspected, they found a sketch of a woman, a map to a specific house, and a piece of cardboard with "I AM A DRUG PUSHER" written on it.

So while that particular "hit" was averted, I have no doubt that murders like these have been successfully pulled off before.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2016 07:13

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

President Duterte met with members of the Filipino community in Indonesia, where he gave a speech, and he went on a tirade, again.

quote:

MANILA - (UPDATED) In a meeting with the Filipino community during a visit to Indonesia on Friday, President Rodrigo Duterte denied calling US President Barack Obama a "son of a b****".

He also hit critics of extra-judicial killings allegedly done in the name of the government's war on illegal drugs, including United Nations (UN) Secretary Ban Ki-moon, and the US State Department.

"[I did not say son-of-a-whore. I said something, but], not in relation to Obama," he said, explaining that he was venting his frustration at questions from the media during a press conference last Monday prior to talks with ASEAN leaders and their dialogue partners in Laos.

Duterte said he met with Obama in passing, on the sidelines of the East Asian summit, and told the US president that he never called him a "son of a b****", and to check tapes of the press conference.

Obama earlier cancelled a bilateral meeting with Duterte in favor of one with South Korean President Park Geun-hye, but said later that he does not take the firebrand leader's words personally.

In a bid to stop talk regarding human rights violations in the country during the East Asian Summit, Duterte also said he presented photos of US military killings during the Philippines-America war at the turn of the century.

"[Yesterday, during the interactions with ASEAN, when everyone was there, in a round-table discussion]. This is [a violation of] human rights. What do you intend to do? Do not tell me that is water under the bridge," he said.

Human rights violations, Duterte said, are still human rights violations whether they were committed by Moses or Abraham.

"When did this philosophy about the human dignity and human rights evolve? Now, or during this time? [They should keep quiet]," he said.

The US State Department should also be careful in saying that it will bring up the issue of human rights with the Philippines, he said, adding it is unfair for the US to tell the Philippines to abide by human rights when it had not followed these either.

"[That State Department, they're like retards flocking together. It's like, if it's the Philippines, it's a violation. When it's the US, it's not]," he said.

Duterte did not spare UN Secretary Ban, whom he met in passing in Laos, in his criticisms.

"[Even Ban Ki-Moon, is interfering.]. He also gave a statement a few weeks ago, about the human rights violation. [I said, there goes another rear end in a top hat]," Duterte said, censuring the UN Secretary for allegedly avoiding further discussion with him.

However, Duterte reiterated that he has no quarrel with the US, despite the country giving the Philippines "principles of law and nothing else" when it comes to the issue of human rights.

Once again, [statements underlined in brackets are my own translation]

The specific insults used, were "ulol" for the State Department and "tarantado" for Ban Ki-Moon. I'm sure linguists will disagree as to how that will play out.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2016 08:47

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

FAUXTON posted:

Wait, is he just muttering poo poo in Tagalog under his breath between phrases of English or are you just improving on the first translation?

Most people speak in straight English, or straight Filipino, especially in a formal setting. Duterte's prepared State of the Nation Address was in full English. His predecessor delivered all his SONAs in Filipino.

Taglish is what happens when you're not fluent enough with either to use it 100% of the time, so you keep jumping back and forth between the two, sometimes even within the same sentence.

That's what's happening here.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2016 11:13

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

1stGear posted:

So apparently Duterte has already pulled the "Oh, I don't want this power but the people insist!" trick. Is it a safe assumption that senator's proposed suspension of habeas corpus is the same approach?

I'm also really confused how suspending habeas corpus makes a justice system less corrupt and EJK-prone, but I guess my non-Filipino mind doesn't grasp such legal subtleties.

One of the big bullet points of the Duterte campaign was "results, right now, at any price". Like, Duterte's gone on record as saying that if he was elected, he would wage a "bloody" war on drugs.

(this is actually a talking point that's used to deflect when debating EJKs: "He said it would be bloody, but we elected him anyway, and now it's bloody, what did you expect? Might as well ride it out", but I digress)

So like, he's only been in office a month and he's already implemented a nation-wide 911, and he's already implemented a Freedom of Information Executive Order (but not a bill), and any number of other things that he's been able to direct people to do right away, as long as it falls under the purview of the Executive. Duterte gets things done, and gets things done quickly! is the order of the day.

Unfortunately, not everything is under Executive control, and when it isn't, he tries to put it under Executive control, such as bypassing due process.

Traffic is another thing: Duterte requested that Congress please give him emergency powers to solve the traffic problem in Manila, and that was being deliberated upon in the Senate last month.

Senator Gordon's proposal to grant the President emergency powers and suspend habeas corpus is ultimately another branch of that line of thinking: it's going to take too long to win the War on Drugs with the bureaucracy in the way, so let's please lift all this red tape and let the President do it.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2016 11:42

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

CronoGamer posted:

It seems obvious, but for a good picture of how he would like the presidency to operate, look at how he ran the show as mayor in Davao for 20-some-odd years. The city council was a rubber stamp body and anything he wanted to do (curfew, smoking ban, death squads) just happened because he willed it so. Now he wants to do the same thing but for the whole country, and when the Senate gets in his way/questions things like De Lima, you see his reaction.

I would absolutely not bet against him declaring a revolutionary government and dissolving Congress.

Yeah, that's pretty bang-on. Duterte doesn't know how to work with things like "other departments" and "other people". What he says, goes, and he pitches a fit whenever someone says he can't have it his way.

Ceiling fan posted:

If the Catholic Church starts objecting to human rights abuses, would that carry much weight in the Philippines these days? And are the local and national Church leaders inclined to do something like that or are they tied up too closely with the political establishment favoring President Duterte?

I couldn't say for sure. The country is still very Catholic, but at the same time the church is very establishment, and very corrupt (like most everything in the Philippines). Some of our Bishops have already spoken out against human rights abuses, but much like pointing out America's ugly side of the Filipino-American War, Duterte then points out that "the church are a bunch of kiddy-diddlers" and "the church spends all your donations on nice cars for priests" and deflates the argument.

During the EDSA Revolution that overthrew Ferdinand Marcos, the Church was critical towards mobilizing people against the dictator, but we're a long ways away from that.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2016 00:02

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

The big news over this weekend was the killing of a woman, the sister of a popular local celebrity, in an upscale neighborhood in Manila.

There was a ubiquitous piece of cardboard placed next to her body, saying "drug pushers of celebrities, you're next!", but according to the police, she was not on any drug watchlist, although there were drugs and drug-paraphernalia found on her body.

.

Another story that developed was the government's Official Gazette making a ~~commemorative~~ celebratory acknowledgement of the birthday of former Philippine dictator Ferdinand Marcos Sr.

I caught a screencap of the second revision:

In the very first post, the last sentence read:

quote:

In 1986, Marcos stepped down from the presidency to avoid bloodshed during the uprising that came to be known as 'People Power.

And then the final one that they left up:

As the issue boiled over late into Sunday evening, their office then made the following statement:

A news article on this issue.

A follow-up article with regards to the link between the Official Gazette's new management under the Duterte administration, specifically that one of their employees used to be involved with the 2016 Vice Presidential campaign of Ferdinand Marcos Jr.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2016 08:47

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

The official line being spouted by the administration seems to be that Duterte didn't "endorse" the execution, so much as simply allow the Indonesians to do as they wished, in accordance with their laws:

https://twitter.com/tinapperez/status/775240781321805826

And reflecting upon this Sep 9 article on Duterte's meeting with Widodo, that may well have been exactly the case:

quote:

President Rodrigo Duterte took up convicted drug mule Mary Jane Veloso�s case during his t�te-�-t�te with Indonesia President Joko Widodo at the Istana Merdeka in Jakarta on Friday.

But he refused to give details of their conversation on the fate of Veloso who remained on death row in Indonesia�s prison after being saved a by a last-minute reprieve from her scheduled death by firing squad in May 2015 from an appeal by then President Benigno Aquino III.

�Not for public consumption,� said the President in a short talk with media after concluding his meeting with Widodo.

Pressed on to comment on whether he exchanged notes with Widodo on antidrug measures, the President said: �No, I said that we will continue to respect each other�s judicial processes. The rule of law is what matters, gives order to the community.�

Foreign Affairs Secretary Perfecto Yasay Jr. said both governments felt no urgency to take action in the case as she had been taken off the execution schedule indefinitely at the moment.

EDIT: You're almost certainly going to see the administration trying to fire back at this by claiming the media is out to get them by unfairly depicting the President's remarks as a "go-signal", by splitting hairs and claiming it was "only" a "do as you will" agreement with Indonesia.

And, for a bit of USPol crossover:

https://twitter.com/gmanews/status/775246583860305920

gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Sep 12, 2016

# ¿ Sep 12, 2016 09:42

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/OfficialGovPH/status/775259240025976832

The Foreign Affairs Secretary has some huge fuckin' balls accusing the head-of-state of another country of being the one that's taking the President out-of-context.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2016 16:36

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

The handling of that story has been an utter clusterfuck:

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/581152/news/nation/yasay-says-phl-to-respect-honor-commitments-with-us

quote:

"The President has said, even as a priority statement in his inaugural address, that we will respect and continue to honor our treaty obligations and commitments particularly even with the US," Foreign Affairs Secretary Perfecto Yasay told a radio interview on Tuesday.

"His statements now are not intended and should not be taken as a signal that he will take back his previous statements insofar as respecting these agreements are concerned," said Yasay.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/09/13/16/palace-us-troops-must-go-a-warning-not-a-directive

quote:

MANILA - President Rodrigo Duterte's pronouncement that United States forces staying the Philippines "must go" is neither a policy nor a directive, but a "warning," Palace officials clarified Tuesday noon.

"These were not directives to leave but these are contexts on why there are conflicts. It was simply an injuction, like a warning," Presidential spokesperson Ernesto Abella said.

Abella said there is no timeline as to when U.S. forces in the country are expected to pack their bags as Duterte was just "laying a notice" that it is not safe for American troops to be here because of the grudge Muslims have held against Westerners.

Despite Duterte's unfriendly gestures towards the country's ally, Abella said the government is "not turning its back on anybody," but underscored that the president made it clear that he intends to push for "an independent foreign policy" where the Philippines will "charter its own independent course."

But for now, policies and treaties including the Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement (EDCA) will continue "until such time things are properly acted on," he said.

"It is not a policy yet, nobody acted on it yet but is serves as notice," Abella said.

"The president has already painted a picture and let's just see how it unfolds," he added.

.

And this next part I'm going to point out is still a developing story from late today, but if it has any weight at all, then the administration is letting the mask slip and is being really unsubtle:

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/581218/news/nation/duterte-no-longer-wants-to-join-expeditions-of-patrolling-seas

quote:

Following pronouncements that he will pursue his own independent foreign policy, President Rodrigo Duterte on Tuesday said he no longer wants to be involved in joint patrols.

In a speech delivered at the 48th anniversary of the 250th Philippine Airlift Wing in Villamor Air Base, Duterte said he only wants to patrol his own territory.

"We will not join any expedition of patrolling the sea. I will not allow it because I don�t want my country to be involved in hostile act. [The thing about] patrolling, when you patrol not only high seas but somebody else�s territory. Whether it is really owned by us, which the judgement says [that's ours], entitlement [is what's going to be claimed by the other side], China. That's besides my point. The point is I dont want to ride gung-ho style there with China or with America," Duterte said.

"I just want to patrol our territorial waters... We do not go into patrol or join any army because I do not want trouble," he added.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/09/13/16/duterte-deals-with-china-russia-in-the-pipeline

MANILA � The Philippines is looking at getting military equipment from China and Russia, President Rodrigo Duterte said Tuesday evening.

Speaking in front of members of the Philippine Air Force at Villamor Air Base in Pasay City, Duterte said possible deals with Russia and China are "in the pipeline" and that "offers are coming in." However, he did not discuss what the details of the proposals.

Duterte also said China offered airplanes to the Philippines because Beijing is "worried" about him.

"[China said they are worried about me. So they offered to give airplanes]," he said.

He added that China may have offered military equipment because Beijing is "also thinking of the other guy," referring to the United States, with which he clarified the Philippines is not cutting military ties.

"[It is already there]. Who am I to [do away with] a treaty?" he said.

However, the country will also be "independent" and will welcome other possibilities when it comes to procuring equipment or weaponry for the armed forces.

"[If we want to buy from one source, if it's free, why won't we take it? Thanks. Here, mayor, we will give you an airplane. I will give that to the Air Force, you should use that]," he said.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2016 14:04

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Broken Cog posted:

So, what's the average Filipinos take on this?

I'm afraid I may not have an "average" perspective on this, as I'm very much a lefty/liberal and did not vote for him. A big part of why I'm contributing to this thread so heavily is because I am very much worried about the future of my country. My father survived Martial Law, but many of his friends did not, and I don't wish to see something like that happen again.

Public sentiment is fairly well-divided on two fronts: you're either pretty well horrified of the President's clumsy-at-best attempts at foreign policy and fearing that he's selling out to the Chinese at the expense of the Americans, or you're buying into the line of the "biased media" and accepting the administration's line about how the Americans have never apologized for the Filipino-American War (because they haven't, TBF).

It's just that that latter group heavily outnumbers the former, as far as I can tell. There's no real opposition party right now, and the country is woefully underequipped to deal with astroturfing of political goals and agendas.

Rap Record Hoarder posted:

What would it take for the US to, say, start rolling back worker visas and the like for Filipinos as a way of punishing or embarrassing Duerte? IIRC, the Philippines factored pretty heavily into Obama's whole "pivot to Asia" policy, and it's still a priority despite the lackluster reception from the public here, so I can't imagine that anyone in the administration is pleased with any of this.

I would have to disagree with that strategy, as sanctioning the Philippines will only harden the belief that the Americans actually are out to get us.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2016 15:03

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Ytlaya posted:

The thing that I find so amazing about all of this is how transparently obvious it is that Duterte is behaving exactly like any other stereotypical dictator. I can't understand how a person who has attended school and learned even the slightest bit about world history could hear his rhetoric and think "yes, this is totally fine and good."

It honestly seems like a significant portion of the population there would support virtually any atrocity Duterte chooses to commit, as long as he gives some half-baked explanation about how it's helping the war on drugs. Even though it should be obvious, it's still kind of spooky to be reminded that people are still vulnerable to being manipulated into supporting such terrible things.

The story I'd like to share are of my middle-class friends, who were all really against the Vice Presidential run of Ferdinand Marcos Jr., but have complete blinders on when it comes to Duterte as being totally different.

And then of course there's also the people who wanted a Duterte/Marcos tandem as a "let's go all in on fascism" ticket, because apparently the country needs that level of "discipline"

Jedi Knight Luigi posted:

Reminder that he was a lawyer--why isn't he being more coy with his wording and message if he wants to become a dictator? I think he's just honestly angry at the drug situation.

This is purely conjecture on my part, but I suspect that Duterte is a lot more "uncontrollable" than his handlers initially expected. A lot of these "gaffes" are being made when he does a fairly routine ceremonial visit, has a hot mic in front of him, and then he speaks off the cuff, and the speech invariably has a policy pronouncement that comes out of left field that the Press Secretary and the Foreign Affairs Secretary then have to scramble to "clarify".

Combine this with the Press Secretary and the Foreign Affairs Secretary being cronyist appointments who're not all that good at their jobs, and end up with a mess.

Even in the longer-term view, I think it was likely that the political clique of former President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo tapped Duterte as a candidate that they could run and win to get them all back into the halls of power: they get reappointed into the cabinet and can have the President rubber-stamp their conservative economic policy, and in exchange he gets a free hand in domestic affairs - make the Davao anti-crime campaign nationwide.

The President maybe isn't acting as circumspect and as subtle as they might like, but the repercussions and regrets haven't started to sink in yet.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2016 00:53

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Y-Hat posted:

This just sounds like chest thumping to me. Haven't the Philippines and China been in a territorial dispute for a couple of years?

Yes, but that was under the Aquino administration. There's a marked difference between that and the Duterte administration's handling of the Spratly's affair, and between their treatment of China vs the US in general.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2016 04:54

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Argue posted:

lol the police have a drug bust quota to meet

That really sounds like it would have a McNamara-esque "perverse incentives" effect on the conduct of police operations.

sincx posted:

Does the PLA Navy have dirt on this guy? Why the hell would he pivot to a country with whom he has a huge territorial dispute?

I don't really get it either - being a tough, Putin-esque/Reagan-esque figure that would stand up to the Chinese and make them back down from their claims in the Spratlys was another campaign bullet point, so him treating the Chinese with kid gloves is baffling since it's otherwise a great source of political capital via nationalism.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2016 08:20

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I'd consider impeachment to be a distant possibility even if Matobato turns out to be an absolute slam-dunk (which he won't be, the campaign to discredit him has already begun and he's only human, with a standard flawed human memory).

Impeachment proceedings are initiated in the House, and the current Speaker is from the same party as the President (PDP-Laban), and they have a nominal majority in Congress after most people switched parties.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2016 17:49

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

CronoGamer posted:

if Matobato provides anything more concrete than scary bedtime stories of the DDS, that can't be just handwaved away as ranting of a crazed/coached witness... Bato would want to shut him up quick.

I wrote-up an effort post of trying to verify some of Matobato's claims, as well as verify the counter-points that the various Senators tried to use to poke holes in his story.

quote:

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2014/06/14/1334521/cebu-hotelier-shot-dead-davao

June 14 2014 - this article was an initial report on the killing of Cebu Hotelier Richard King. Of note in this account is that King was apparently having dinner at the time he was attacked, and that the police chief Senior Superintendent at the time was one Vicente Danao Jr.

That mention of Richard King having dinner at the time is important, because it lends credence to Matobato's account that King was killed at a McDonalds. We know that Senator Lacson questioned this, and that PhilStar article itself says that King was killed in the Vital C building, but as this Google Maps link indicates https://goo.gl/KpJ3pj , there actually is a McDonalds right where the Vital C building is.

http://www.rappler.com/nation/67948-davao-police-chief-relieved

Sep 02 2014 - in this article, Vicente Danao Jr. makes another appearance, this time for being relieved from his post after physical injury charges were filed against him by his wife, and after video is revealed exposing his supposed domestic abuse. The other noteworthy mention in this article is a quote from then-Mayor Rodrigo Duterte wherein he demands that Danao is reinstated, as he is handpicked by the Mayor.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/639005/davao-city-police-official-charged-with-murder-in-court-for-richard-kings-slay

Sep 18 2014 - this article, which details charges being filed against police Supt. Leonardo Felonia, corroborates Matobato's account: �Ako ang tinuturo nilang pumatay, si Felonia ang sinabi nilang mastermind. Sa pagkakaalam ko nakadetain si Col. Felonia dahil sa pagpatay kay Richard King,�, as quoted in http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/581473/news/nation/senate-witness-tags-paolo-duterte-in-the-2014-killing-of-billionaire-richard-king

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2015/09/22/1502758/5-cops-linked-davao-death-squad-snub-doj-probe

Sep 22 2015 - this is the first other known appearance of the name Edgar Matobato. Apparently he was going to serve as a witness in a DOJ probe into five Davao-based policemen for activities related to the DDS, and specifically for violations of the Anti-Torture Law under RA 9745. The five policemen never showed up for this hearing. One of the policemen involved in this probe is Vicente Danao Jr., whom we've established as being involved into the investigation of the Richard King murder.

This indicates that Matobato did not "come out of nowhere", as the DOJ had identified and was prepared to use him as a witness for at least a year now.

http://mindanaotimes.net/dcpo-director-explains-absence-at-hearing-on-police-death-squad-link/

Sep 28 2015 - in this follow-up article regarding the no-show of these five policemen, we then learn that back in 2009, Ombudsman Conchita Carpio-Morales penalized these five, plus another sixteen high-ranking police officers, for DDS-attributed killings from 2005 to 2008.

.

Cong. Karlo Nograles did issue a denial about Matobato's claims of bodyguards being killed as part of political strife, but given that the Representative owes his Congressional seat, and a plum committee chairmanship to the President and his party, there is a conflict of interest as far as him confirming these past events.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/727728/nograles-to-vote-for-rival-duterte-in-2016
http://news.abs-cbn.com/focus/11/28/15/nograles-duterte-end-decades-of-political-rift
http://www.rappler.com/nation/politics/elections/2016/119612-nograles-clan-supports-rodrigo-duterte
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/575912/news/nation/davao-city-solon-nograles-is-new-chair-of-house-appropriations-panel

.

Finally, another issue that came up during the hearing regarding Matobato's credibility was the kidnapping of a terrorist named Sali Makdum and taking him to the PAOCTF office in 2002, when by all accounts then-President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo had already dissolved the PAOCTF in April 2001.

http://www.denr.gov.ph/news-and-features/latest-news/773-denr-seeks-paoctf-help-to-stop-massive-gold-smuggling.html

Jun 10 2012 - this is an article written by the DENR wherein they specifically call upon the PAOCTF to aid them in halting the smuggling of gold and other precious metals, so even an entire government department was confused about the existence of the PAOCTF a full eleven years after they were supposed to have been already abolished.

http://paocc.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=102

Another angle to consider is that the PAOCTF went away in name only - the PAOCC was established at the same time as the PAOCTF, but the PAOCC was not abolished when the PAOCTF was, and both underwent numerous organizational changes that may simply have been above the purview of Matobato, who would keep calling it by the one name he came to know it by.

Some of this may go over your head as being too local news, but the TL;DR is that Matobato's claims are almost certainly true, and that the DOJ/CHR has probably known of his existence for a number of years as part of the initial late-2000's investigation into the Davao Death Squad, but they've never had the opportunity to let him enter his testimony into public record until now.

Some of the inaccuracies and inconsistencies in Matobato's story can be attributed to him doing this all out of memory, and that he's barely got a high-school level education.

Of course, the line coming out of the administration and its supporters is that Matobato is a paid/fake witness because he got some details wrong, like the brand/type of tape used to restrain kidnap victims, or that one of the victims was shot 30 times as being unrealistic, or that he claimed to have met Bato Dela Rosa (who then denied the meeting in turn), or that they claimed to have arrested and kidnapped a terrorist of a certain name who then the questioning Senator couldn't Google and therefore concluded didn't actually exist.

And that this is all a plot by the Liberal Party to give the illusion that there's merit to initiating impeachment procedures, so that the Liberal Party VP can replace Duterte instead.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2016 04:29

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I'm fairly well conflicted as to how things might or should turn out.

Obviously I'm no fan of the violent rhetoric and state policy being espoused by the President, nor his flailing attempts at foreign policy, nor his generally rude demeanor, but a coup would be more bloodshed, and impeachment hearings would lead to harder polarization of the nation's politics since a number of the admin's supporters are already "primed" to believe that this was all a long-con (and God forbid it actually fail at the 11th hour as a vindication of Duterte), as well as a general delegitimization of the democratic process here since we did just throw out another President a short 16 years earlier, reasons notwithstanding.

Of course, keeping Duterte in power as-is may lead to more bloodshed and perversion of the state apparatus anyway, but I guess what I'm saying is that the President could still be doing a lot worse before we get to the tipping point where it'd be better for him to not finish out his term.

EDIT: On a somewhat unrelated note, the juxtaposition between the Philippines and the USPol thread is interesting, because while the more liberal end of the population here is treating the media as a bastion in the wake of Duterte's flip-flopping and outright lies and the admin is trying to paint them as dastardly liars, in the USPol thread everyone's almost unilaterally going "gently caress the media" over how they're treating Trump vs Clinton. The reasons are different, of course, but I though the distinction was fascinating.

gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Sep 16, 2016

# ¿ Sep 16, 2016 05:21

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

This is the current Speaker of the House of Representatives:

quote:

BACOLOD CITY - Self-confessed Davao Death Squad (DDS) member Edgar Matobato did not say anything new in his testimony on Thursday implicating President Rodrigo Duterte in alleged summary killings in Davao City, an ally of the President said.

House Speaker Pantaleon Alvarez told local journalists that Matobato is a "recycled witness".

Alvarez said Matobato issued the same statements several years ago on the existence of the Davao Death Squad when Senator Leila de Lima was still chair of the Commission on Human Rights, but no case was filed.

Alvarez said he is from Davao and the only DDS he knows is "Die-hard Duterte Supporters", of which he is one.

Alvarez who was in Bacolod City Thursday, said de Lima's motives for leading an investigation on killings amid the Duterte administration's war on drugs should be looked into.

He said the lower House will start next week its own inquiry on the proliferation of illegal drugs when de Lima was Justice Secretary.

EDIT: I'd also like to mention that "ka-DDS", or "fellow DDS members" is a thing people call each other in the Duterte-supporting Facebook pages.

Think about that. "Davao Death Squad" as a badge of loving pride. It's like Trumpists referring to each other as "SS bros"

gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Sep 16, 2016

# ¿ Sep 16, 2016 10:06

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

# ¿ Sep 18, 2016 15:48

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Okay this might go over the heads of our English speaking forum-goers, but searching Locsin's twitter for Duterte's "son of a whore" expression is just :allears:

https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3Ateddyboylocsin%20putangina

And probably his most famous tweet:

https://twitter.com/teddyboylocsin/status/483528644828999680

"I am paying P3,900 for 0.57 mbps. Hey, [Philippine Long-Distance Telecommunications] gently caress you all, motherfuckers."

# ¿ Sep 18, 2016 16:58

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

This is still a developing story, but I wanted to share it while it's fresh:

Senator Alan Peter Cayetano, attack dog of the Duterte administration, delivered a privilege speech today wherein he attacked Liberal Party Senator Leila De Lima.

De Lima decided to walk out of the Senate hall.

quote:

Saying she could no longer stand Senator Alan Peter Cayetano's speech directed at her, Senator Leila De Lima on Monday afternoon walked out of the Senate session hall.

In a privilege speech, Cayetano said: �Senator De Lima, in her desire to destroy the President, is destroying the integrity and reputation of the Senate.�
�Worse, damaging the image of our country and people worldwide,� Cayetano, a close ally of Duterte, said. Cayetano was the vice-presidential candidate of Duterte in the 2016 national elections.

In a brief interview at the Senate hallway, De Lima said she would just deliver her own privilege speech instead of interpellating Cayetano.

�I cannot stand it so I�m gonna deliver a privilege speech tomorrow instead of confronting him," De Lima said.

�What is destroying the reputation of this country are the killings. It�s not me,� she added.

Senator Manny Pacquiao (yes, as in the boxer) then made a motion to have the Chairmanship of the Justice Committee, currently occupied by De Lima, be declared vacant.

Both Pacquiao and Cayetano took themselves out of consideration for the chairmanship, as they needed someone "neutral"

The motion passed: 16 affirmative, 4 negative, 2 abstain.

Replacing her as chair of the Justice Committee is Senator Richard Gordon

Who, if you'll recall from earlier in the thread, wanted to give the President further emergency powers, up to and including the suspension of the Writ of Habeas Corpus and has staked himself out as a staunch administration ally.

I feel sick, having typed that all out just now. This is even less subtle than the end of Revenge of the Sith.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2016 12:21

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Argue posted:

Jesus Christ. gently caress. And that's Richard "let's suspend the writ of habeas corpus" Gordon. gently caress.

I'm scurred Argue :ohdear:

# ¿ Sep 19, 2016 14:40

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I have family in the US. I should get a new visa.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2016 14:55

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Ceiling fan posted:

So, I wonder if Matobato is going to commit suicide, be found with one of those "I am a drug dealer" signs, or is going to just plain disappear.

They don't need to kill him anymore.

His testimony already had enough circumstantial holes shot in it to permanently damage his credibility as a witness.

Further, the Senate hearings were technically "in aid of legislation". That is, they were a series of inquiries that were supposed to provide insights and information on whatever bills the Senate would craft that would help/enhance/further guide the implementation of the War on Drugs, so the germaneness of Matobato's testimony was also in question.

And that's besides the fact that nothing could come out of that testimony that could be used against the President, given that he's the President - even if the committee were to somehow uncover some bulletproof, provable Davao Death Squad link to the President, the Senate isn't the correct body for it - impeachment proceedings start in the House, and the current Speaker of the House is a staunch administration ally.

And speaking of the House, they themselves are launching a "probe" into allegations that Senator De Lima, the now-former Justice committee chairman, was on the payroll of drug lords, and the administration is willing to go HAM on this hard enough to offer immunity to currently-incarcerated drug lords in exchange for their testimony against the Senator.

One of the opposition Senators, one Antonio Trillanes, was supposed to file a motion to continue investigating Matobato's claims regarding the Davao Death Squad, but given the events of today, that's not likely to gain the support it needs.

Further, now that the administration has their man as the Justice committee chair, we can expect that the rest of these hearings are going to be fluffer sessions for the government.

Even before today, Matobato's testimony was already discredited to the point where they'd need to launch an entirely separate investigation just to look into it.

After today, that investigation is guaranteed to never happen. They might still kill him regardless, but I imagine it's going to be weeks or months from now, long after people have forgotten.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2016 15:24

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

#1

The news about yesterday's events should be hitting international media by about now:

Daily Mail: Duterte foe ousted from probe into Philippine killings

Reuters: Philippine drug killings probe in limbo after senators drop Duterte critic

#2

Senator Cayetano was interviewed last night regarding the motion to oust Senator De Lima from her chairmanship:

quote:

"I do not have any ambitions in the Senate. I fully support you, with Dick Gordon as our leader. Just talk with each other. As for me, I only have two requests. First, pass all presidential bills that can benefit the country, like the emergency powers for the president."

That first sentence is an outright admission that Senator Gordon, the new Justice committee chairman, is just as much an administration ally as Cayetano himself, who recused himself from the chairmanship over concerns about neutrality.

That last sentence is an outright admission that the administration bloc's agenda is to award emergency powers to the President.

#3

On Sep 15 2016, Time Magazine released an article: Inside Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte�s War On Drugs, written by one Rishi Iyengar. It made the cover of Time's international edition.

Apparently, Mr Iyengar wrote about making the cover of Time on his personal Facebook page, and then a local Filipina journalist, a Ms Gretchen Malalad, congratulated him for it.

This then lead to the following image by the Crabbler Facebook page, which as I have brought up previously is a complete administration shill:

So they doxxed her, heavily implied that she was the source of the information Iyengar was working off of, and "let people decide" whether or not she was deserving of their ire.

I bring this up because the The National Union of Journalists of the Philippines (NUJP) released a statement on this turn of events:

quote:

The National Union of Journalists of the Philippines (NUJP) deplore the recent social media attacks on our colleagues, freelance journalist Gretchen Malalad, and Al Jazeera correspondent Jamela Alindogan-Caudron, which have gone beyond legitimate criticism of their professional output to outright threats on their persons.

The media, whether here or elsewhere, will always welcome engagement, including criticism, from their audience for this is also how we learn to be more effective communicators.

However, we will never take any threats, whether of physical harm or to silence us, lightly for we have lost far too many of our colleagues and hardly seen justice for them.

We do take some measure of hope from the Duterte administration's creation of a special task force to investigate media killings and other threats against the Philippine press. This might be the perfect opportunity for the task force, or an equivalent mechanism currently available, to prove its worth. We call on Communications Secretary Martin Andanar to immediately cause an investigation and take action against the open threats against Ms. Malalad and Ms. Alindogan-Caudron, and to do its utmost to ensure that none of these are carried out.

We also urge all our colleagues to report any and all threats directed against you for your work that these may be properly documented and referred to the appropriate law enforcement bodies for action.

At the same time, we also urge the administration to end its penchant of constantly blaming the media for any controversy its words and actions give rise to. As communicators, we are only too aware of the power of words, especially when uttered by those in positions of leadership, for these may be, and have many times been, taken as gospel truth and a license to precipitate action by true believers.

As journalists, it is our duty to report events as faithfully as we can. To blame us for the consequences of what those we cover utter or do is tantamount to asking us to abrogate our duties and be silent. This we cannot and will never do.

Independent Philippine journalists helped shine the light on the dark deeds of the Marcos dictatorship and continued to scrutinize each and every administration since then without fear or favor despite the dangers we have and continue to face, for which many of us have paid the ultimate sacrifice. We will continue to do so and to oppose any attempts to stifle press freedom, a freedom that, incidentally, does not belong to us but to the people, whose right to know that freedom serves.

The linked article has multiple pictures of the kind of invective that's been flung against these women.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2016 02:45

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

RandomPauI posted:

So, is Duterte making the shift away from the US because he hates the US, or because they won't agree with his policies so he decided to just angle for a new patron?

It has to (as in this is just conjecture on my part) come down to a combination of:

1. China has dirt of him/his handlers
2. He/his handlers owe a great deal of debt to China, either in cash or in kind
3. Duterte has strong personal feelings about the US and holds a grudge, and it's leaking into his foreign policy decisions

Nothing else makes sense, unless we start delving into "yes, it doesn't make sense, Duterte is nuts".

I mean, you do have a point about how Obama/Clinton are probably not going to look kindly upon the Philippines descending into right-wing authoritarianism, but then again Egypt and other parts of the ME are a thing. They'd hold their nose as long they could use us as an ally and a pivot against China, so going full Marcos AND turning away from the US is a great way to get denouncements and sanctions that wouldn't otherwise happen if we'd just play ball with Kerry.

So, I don't really know.

ihatepants posted:

Let's not act like he wasn't an awful person and a total shithead for a long time before this. I was probably the only Filipino rooting against the guy for most of his career because of it.

Yeah, let's not forget that this is Manny "gays are worse than animals" Pacquiao here.

It's just that as a Congressman, he had an attendance record worse than Marco Rubio (HEYO!) so I thought he was going to mostly be an empty suit, and not "I'll file a bill for the reimplementation of the death penalty and let myself be used as the admin's attack dog"

# ¿ Sep 20, 2016 07:45

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

All right, reset the clock.

Duterte turns ire on EU, calls them hypocrites and uses �F� word

quote:

MANILA � President Duterte let loose a fresh string of tirades against the European Union, on Tuesday, after it called for a halt to extrajudicial killings of drug suspects in the Philippines.

�I read the condemnation of the EU against me. I will tell them, �gently caress you.� You�re doing it in atonement for your sins,� Mr. Duterte said in a speech before local government officials in Davao City.

Duterte said members of the European Union have become strict about the behavior of other nations due to their �guilt feelings� over the atrocities they had committed in the past.

He also called them hypocrites, as he added that a check of encyclopedias would show what European countries have done, he said. For instance, France and Great Britain had killed Arabs, he said.

�And then EU now has the gall to condemn me. I repeat it, �gently caress you,�� he said.

Mr. Duterte also asked who he was supposed to have killed in the Philippines.

Assuming accusations against him were true, and there were over 1,000 killed in the country, he asked who were the people killed.

�Who are they? Criminals? You call it genocide? How many did they kill?� he asked.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2016 13:55

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

blackguy32 posted:

Spoken like a true Dutertinista. But from my standpoint, the guy just seems like a giant petulant baby that is lashing out at everything and everyone who dares criticize him.

Someone should introduce the President to smartphones and the Twitter app :allears:

# ¿ Sep 20, 2016 15:12

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I wasn't really able to keep pace with today's proceedings in a way that'd let me do a neat summary, so I'll just try to link relevant news stories:

A backgrounder on Herbert Colangco, one of the drug lords that testified to a House committee today on allegations that Senator De Lima used them to funnel drug money into her campaign fund.

Despite the fact that this was a House committee hearing, Department of Justice Secretary Vitaliano Aguirre personally got involved in questioning Colangco and the other witnesses.

One of the bombshells in today's testimony was that Colangco was able to contact De Lima directly, through her cellphone.

In shades of what happened to Senator Lindsay Graham, the witnesses did publicly expose De Lima's cellphone number and home address, which then resulted in the Senator being called �the vilest of names� in thousands of angry messages.

De Lima of course denied these allegations, asserting that the testimony must have been falsified, done under duress, or done with a deal, especially since the DOJ, with the approval from the House, granted immunity to these inmates in exchange for their testimony.

President Duterte's own response to these allegations of drug lords living it up inside what's supposed to be a maximum security was yet another reference to declaring Martial Law.

In the Senate, De Lima did deliver her own privilege speech in response to yesterday's events and the allegations leveled against her, and I will end with an excerpt from the speech:

quote:

The point is, Senator Cayetano wants to impress upon us the Singapore-like safety of our communities in the middle of all these killings with anecdotes. His proof that we are safe consists of anecdotal taxi driver stories. In the meantime, his President has just declared a State of National Emergency due to the existence of Lawless Violence. For the first time since the eve of the declaration of Martial Law 44 years ago to the day today, the country has not come close to such an admission by the State that it is incapable of enforcing order in society, that the President has to resort to his extraordinary commander-in-chief powers under the Constitution in order to maintain public safety, peace and order.

So are we in a State of Safety, as claimed by Senator Cayetano? Or are we in a State of Lawlessness, as declared by the President?

Safe lawlessness, or lawless safety? Ang tawag po doon sa salitang Inggles ay �oxymoron�, with emphasis on moron.

Senator Cayetano�s anecdotes will not pass any known academic standard to prove his proposed thesis that our countrymen feel safe. I for one do not feel safe, what with the President unleashing the might and power of the whole Executive Branch, the other half of Congress, and 1/24 of the Senate to go after me and destroy me, a single Senator from Bicol who wants nothing else in the world but to be and play with her dogs at home and to see that the killings stop and justice be done to those who already fell during the night.

The next time Senator Cayetano recites his now famous anecdotes about how safe we are, maybe he can include my own story. Definitely it is not a story of being safe. It is the story of being the first target of a new McCarthyism in our time, of being singled out by the powers-that-be for daring to think differently and to advocate passionately for what one believes in.

This has been the line of Duterte's paid trolls in social media: If you are not pro-Duterte, you are a drug coddler, you are a pusher, you are an addict. This is the new communist scare of our times: The Addict. If you do not worship Lord Duterte, you are an addict, because only addicts do not worship Lord Duterte.

Link to the speech's full text

# ¿ Sep 20, 2016 16:48

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Today marks the 44th anniversary of Ferdinand Marcos Sr.'s declaration of Martial Law in the Philippines.

You know what you probably shouldn't do today? Float an idea to bring back the police force that Marcos used to enforce it.

quote:

MAWAB, Compostela Valley � President Duterte is considering the revival of the Philippine Constabulary to help in the fight against terrorism.

Mr. Duterte made the announcement during his visit to the headquarters of the Army�s 10th Infantry Division in Mawab, Compostela Valley on Tuesday afternoon.

He said the reactivation of the PC would strengthen the government�s fight against terrorism.

Mr. Duterte said the Constabulary, which had been abolished by President Corazon Aquino due to alleged abuses during the Marcos regime, could be effective in dealing with urban terrorism.

LOOK BACK: The Philippine Constabulary under Marcos

quote:

MANILA, Philippines � Days before the Philippines is set to mark the 44th anniversary of the declaration of Martial Law, President Rodrigo Duterte made another callback to history: announcing his plan to revive the Philippine Constabulary (PC).

He needed to do so, he said, to fight urban terrorism.

"I will return the Philippine Constabulary under the 4 commands � army and the Philippine Constabulary because I need people in urban terrorism like the [Special Action Forces]," Duterte said in a speech before a military camp on Tuesday, September 20.

The PC was the national police force that began under the American regime in 1901. It eventually became part of the military and was in charge of maintaining peace and order.

But it became infamous during the martial law years of the late president Ferdinand Marcos, who used the PC to implement his strongman rule and arrest those deemed critical of the dictatorship.

On September 21, 1972, Marcos signed Proclamation 1081, placing the Philippines under Martial Law purportedly due to the communist threat. But his diary entry for September 22, 1972 cited the alleged ambush of then defense secretary Juan Ponce Enrile as the triggering force behind the declaration. Marcos went on national television on September 23, 1972, to make the formal announcement.

But even before the declaration, Marcos' plan to take over government had been known to a number of people. According to the Official Gazette, the late Senator Benigno Aquino Jr had exposed "Oplan Sagittarius" during his September 13, 1972 privilege speech. Aquino spoke about a supposed plan to place Metro Manila and outlying areas under the control of the PC.

Following the declaration of Martial Law, the PC took the lead in its implementation. Marcos had ordered the takeover of private establishments and the arrest of activists � orders followed through by the PC.

Under Presidential Decree 170, signed in April 1973, the defense secretary was given the power to place any city or municipal police force under the control of the PC.

Marcos' orders gave the military the authority to arrest and detain anyone going against the government or deemed subversive. In General Order No. 62, issued in October 1977, Marcos allowed the defense secretary and his authorized law enforcement officials to issue an arrest, search and seizure order (ASSO) for various offenses ranging from robbery and arson to murder and kidnapping.

The victims who were picked up during that time remember being detained on trumped up charges or unclear allegations.

But arresting and detaining known oppositionists were not the only tasks of the military and the PC then. Various historical and personal accounts point to them as the ones behind the torture and killing of hundreds.

Former congressman Neri Colmenares was one of those arrested and tortured by members of the PC. When he was arrested as an 18-year-old activist, he was strangled and made to play Russian Roulette � a torture method where a bullet is loaded into one chamber of a revolver, the cylinder spun, and the victim forced to pull the trigger to his own head.

A young doctor, Dr Juan Escandor, was tortured by the PC, his skull broken open and stuffed with trash.

In "Dark Legacy: Human rights under the Marcos regime," historian Alfred McCoy wrote about elite torture units during the Martial Law years whose officers were "the embodiment of an otherwise invisible terror."

The most notorious of these units were the 5th Constabulary Security Unit (CSU) and the Metrocom Intelligence and Security Group (MISG).

The 5th CSU was known for the capture of communist leaders, such as Communist Party of the Philippines founder Jose Maria Sison. The dreaded unit became infamous for its use of various torture methods, such as water cure, electric shocks, and psychological torture.

The historian said Marcos' interrogation units "practiced a distinctive form of theatrical torture" that relied more on psychological humiliation than physical pain.

From 1972 to 1981, an estimated 70,000 people were imprisoned, 34,000 tortured, and 3,240 killed, according to Amnesty International.

EDIT: And to continue on our delving into the twitter of newly-appointed UN Ambassador Teddy Boy Locsin:

ihatepants posted:

I know this is one of those "my uncle works at Nintendo" type stories, but I have heard from others in the know (that also hate Duterte) that De Lima really does have connections to the drug trade and has her right hand man handles pretty much everything with that. She is also very willing to be bribed, even compared to her other peers. She's dirty as gently caress and probably deserves everything that's coming to her.

Wizchine posted:

I was talking a bit about the stuff going with a couple of co-workers - none of us is Filipino by the way. One of them was saying something along the lines of the above, like "yeah, it wouldn't be surprising if the people at the top were all big players in the drug trade because that's how it works where I came from. She's probably dirty as hell." He's from Honduras.

Ultimately the problem with any opposition to Duterte is that you don't get to be a national-level politician without dirt on your hands, which means the juxtaposition of you as a "moral crusader" is immediately going to get blown up by oppo research.

And then, your opponent isn't supposed to be clean, because he ran openly declaring that a Presidency under him would be bloody and involve a lot of killings, so when you point out that he's a loving rear end in a top hat, he gets a pass since that was part of the Faustian bargain.

Badger of Basra posted:

Has Duterte turned Davao into the second capital? It seems like all quotes or speeches end with "said today in Davao City." Does he ever go to Manila?

He does a lot of these speeches while visiting military camps, and a lot of the military is deployed in Mindanao and around Davao as part of operations against the Abu Sayyaf.

He does still go to Manila, but he does a lot of shuttling back-and-forth between there and Davao. We only just joke that he's made Davao the new capital.

A more cynical person might say that the reason he does so many addresses to military formations is that he's currying favor with them for the eventual take-over. You'll notice a lot of the articles I post also open with "to the xth Infantry Division".

gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Sep 21, 2016

# ¿ Sep 21, 2016 05:38

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

In that same speech in Mawab, Compostela Valley to the 10th Infantry Division, Duterte made another pronouncement:

quote:

MANILA, Philippines � President Rodrigo Duterte reminded Philippine soldiers that no matter how many criminals they kill in the line of duty, he will pardon them and even give them a promotion.

�For as long as there is the power to pardon sa Constitution, [that�s my weapon] against crime. [Massacre 100 people, I�ll pardon all of you] � restore to full political and civil rights plus a promotion to boot,� said Duterte on Tuesday, September 20.

He was speaking to soldiers of the 10th Infantry Division in a military camp in Mawab, Compostela Valley.

�[Carve this into your hearts]: For as long as I am the president, nobody but nobody � no military man or policeman will go to prison because they performed their duties,� he emphasized.

Duterte instructed soldiers to kill criminals whether or not they pull out a gun. Previously, he had said to shoot criminals only if they violently resist arrest.

�[If they pull out a gun, kill them. If they don�t, kill them, son of a whore so it�s over, lest you lose the gun. I�ll take care of you],� he said.

But Duterte later on said he would never order the military to do something illegal.

�[I won�t order anything illegal. Don�t believe that.] I did not order you and the police to perform punitive police action. I have declared war against the drug syndicates in this country. You know what is war. War is war,� said the President.

And Rappler has also helpfully documented Duterte's frequent visits to military camps:

quote:

From July 21 to August 12, or in less than a month, the President has visited no less than 14 military camps across Luzon, Visayas, and Mindanao.

Here is a complete list of these camps with the dates of his visit:

Camp Teodulfo Bautista in Jolo, Sulu (August 12)
Camp Major Cesar Sang-an (1st Infantry Division or Tabak Division) in Labangan, Zamboanga del Sur (August 10)
Camp Edilberto Evangelista in Cagayan de Oro City (August 9)
Camp Lukban in Catbalogan, Samar (August 8)
Camp Panacan, Davao City (August 6)
Camp Lapu-Labu in Cebu City (August 5)
Camp General Macario Peralta in Jamindan, Capiz (August 5)
Camp Victoriano Luna or AFP Medical Center in Quezon City (August 2)
60th Infantry Battalion headquarters in Asuncion, Davao del Norte (July 29)
Camp Guillermo Nakar in Lucena City, Quezon (July 28)
Fort Magsaysay in Palayan City, Nueva Ecija (July 26)
Camp Siongco in Awang Datu Odin Sinsuat, Maguindanao (July 22 and August 18)
Western Mindanao Command headquarters in Zamboanga City (July 21)
104th Infantry Battalion in Isabela City, Basilan (July 21)

No other president has dropped in on so many military camps in his first weeks in power.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2016 10:48

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

On the night of the Plaza Miranda bombing, Aug 21, 1972, my father, a medical student and an activist, already decided that he would not go home that night. The declaration of Martial Law would come almost a month later, but he and his friends already figured that something like that was going to happen anyway, and did not wait around for it.

He left Manila and stayed with various friends and relatives for weeks until he was sure that the police, who did go my grandparents' house, had stopped looking for him. He only came back to grab his personal effects and say his goodbyes, and then left for the States, where he'd spend the next couple of years studying optometry in DC and Maryland.

One of his schoolmates from medical school stayed behind. He would go to the province of Isabela to work at a rural clinic there. Occasionally, they would have patients who were Communist rebel soldiers, but they treated them anyway. Government soldiers eventually got wind of this, and one night my father's friend was murdered in cold blood. The family never found out who was directly responsible.

My father, and his fallen schoolmate's younger brother, to this day still share a clinic in Manila together. It's a very small private practice, and never as glamorous nor as well-paying as working in a large hospital, but that's what they chose to do. Every year they still go back out to the province to do a stint serving the rural population.

I knew bits and pieces of this for a long time, but my father relayed the whole story to me when we talked on the eve of the elections, May 8, 2016.

I'd read the polls, and I knew that Duterte was going to win, and I wanted someone to tell me that I was just being panicky, just being melodramatic, that I was being absurd for worrying as much as I did about the country electing the second-coming of a dictator. He didn't. He told me that it was playing out just like it did so many years ago, when people believed that Martial Law was necessary for the security of the country. It wasn't an instant dip in Marcos's approval ratings, it wasn't perceived as a tipping point in the erosion of civil rights. It was just something that had to happen, and people welcomed it.

I asked him, "What do we do now?"

"There are no easy answers, son"

# ¿ Sep 21, 2016 11:34

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I'm sorry if that doesn't really answer the answer of how to leave the country in the event of Martial Law (my dad essentially was there on a student visa), but yes, go ahead and share it. I wrote it that way.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2016 13:33

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Roxas wasn't going to let Poe take his shot at the Presidency after he already stepped aside once, and he'd been a part of the party and the cabinet long enough to have known all sorts of dirt to strongarm the party into backing him if they balked.

By late 2014, the only other competition for the Presidency was Binay, and the LP would have been confident of beating him, if he hadn't already preemptively been beaten by all his corruption cases.

Early 2015, and Poe makes sounds at running herself, and the LP has a fight on their hands, but if they consider Binay to already be done, then they focus their oppo research on Poe, and she's going to be torn down like Villar.

And you can see this in the polling - Poe starts with a strong "post-convention" bump, but keeps losing ground to Roxas as the weight of the attacks on her inexperience and doubtful citizenship take their toll.

But then Duterte uses his election law loophole to enter into the race three months late, and with a "we had to drag his rear end into the race, so you know he doesn't want any power for himself" sentiment behind him.

The LP gets blindsided, and they're never able to redirect their machine to stop Duterte in time, on top of a campaign strategy that isn't as savvy as Clinton's has in terms of leveraging social media and countering the right-wing disinformation machine.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2016 15:57

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

CronoGamer posted:

That sort of "next in line" entitlement is exactly why people couldnt stand Roxas though wasnt it?

A little bit of yes, a little bit of that was one of the attack lines deployed against him.

CronoGamer posted:

Wasn't Poe leading the pack from when the SC cleared her until a few weeks before the election when her husband's US military experience became an issue?

Poe was ahead of Roxas in the late 2015 polls, but fell behind in the last two months prior to the election - yes, she was completely cleared of her citizenship issues, but by then some of the electorate had realized that Duterte was the clear and present danger and started shifting support to Roxas.

Or at least, that's my read what the polls meant.

CronoGamer posted:

I mean say what you will about how it would have played out if she'd run for VP on the LP ticket, but I think it was fair for her to say she made a more inspiring candidate than Roxas.

She did. She wasn't part of the administration and she didn't have all that ridiculous MRT/LRT, airport bullet and Yolanda scandals surrounding her.

Personally, I would've been completely fine tactically voting for her to prevent a Duterte presidency, but the "call to unite" or "call to switch parties" never came, and the last two weeks of polling showed Roxas in second place, so it was never practical to switch.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2016 16:41

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Other news to have come out of yesterday's events:

On the second day of the House's hearing of testimony from drug personalities out of the maximum security Bilibid prison, new allegations were leveled against Senator De Lima. Specifically, that while Bilibid prison was raided back in 2014 after the Criminal Investigation and Detection Group revealed that high-profile prisoners there were living the high life, that the raid was performed only after a number of delays, and without the participation of the CIDG. The implication would seem to be that the raid was either selective to only hit specific targets (as in not the drug lords cooperating with De Lima), or that the raid was only a sham, and that it was only conducted to give the illusion that then-DOJ Secretary De Lima was being tough on crime.

A second story on the same topic

===

The Atlantic ran a story on Rodrigo Duterte during the 80s and 90s, and as a Mayor, in an attempt to add context to who he is, and why he governs in the way he does.

===

We have video of Duterte saying "gently caress you" to the EU, and apparently he also raised his middle-finger, which I didn't get from the initial news reports. It's also hit the rounds of international news.

===

Senate Majority Leader Vicente Sotto III and Senator Manny Pacquiao released statements regarding the possibility of UN rapporteurs visiting the Philippines.

Sotto said that the UN has no right to criticize the Philippines for human rights violations when the UN advocates abortion, which he considers to be a violation of human rights all its own. He also said that if the UN would meddle in the affairs of the Philippines, that perhaps the Philippines should have the right to meddle in the affairs of the UN, which is an astoundingly ignorant statement to make in the face of the Philippines being a charter member of the UN.

Pacquiao said that the UN meddling in other nations's affairs was "bad", and I can't elaborate further than that because his statement reads at a grade-school level. He also parroted campaign talking points in the form of Duterte not actually wanting any power for himself as he is all doing this for the people, and closed out with the implication that the only reason there are so many killings in the Philippines is because we're not behaving ourselves enough.

===

In the meantime, killings do continue to happen across the country.

# ¿ Sep 22, 2016 02:42

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 14:12

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I'm now having to do these in chronological order, since there are multiple bits of news.

#1

On Wednesday morning President Duterte made a statement amounting to the Philippines actually needing the US as an ally after all:

quote:

Mr. Duterte made the statement in the course of explaining his earlier remark that he might later ask US Special Forces to leave Mindanao to pave the way for talks with Muslim rebels, who have historical grievances from abuses suffered at the hands of the Americans.

�I never said get out of the Philippines, for after all, we need them there in the China Sea. We don�t have armaments,� President Duterte said.

He added that the Philippines was not ready to go to war with China, and he would not want it, because it would be a �massacre.�

Mr. Duterte however insisted that the Americans continue to look down on the Philippines.

�I really do not know what�s wrong with these Americans. They look at us as if we�re lowly,� he said.

He repeated his earlier lament over the FA-50 jets the country had acquired, which he said did not have missiles.

He said the Philippines had bought these from South Korea, but these were made with US technology. The Philippines could not have acquired the jets without US consent, he said.

This is the second time he's brought up the topic of the FA-50 fighter jets that the country recently bought, though at least this time he's been informed that they're not actually of American make, as when he fumed against them the first time.

Regardless, I'm starting to feel whiplash from these speeches and pronouncements.

#2

Continuing with the House probe into allegations of Senator De Lima being involved in drugs, today's topic was one of the inmates, a Jaybee Sebastian, reportedly receiving preferential treatment by the DOJ under De Lima. De Lima's counter to this is that Sebastian was actually a government asset, an informant, which is why he needed to be protected.

I can't really offer any more commentary on this as the allegations are just flying back and forth, and personally I don't trust the House committee as far as I can throw them.

#3

This Thursday afternoon, the President delivered another speech, this time during the inauguration of a new power plant.

Whereas his previous tirades were about not wanting to let the UN into the country because that was meddling and an intrusion on our national sovereignty, this time he dared them to come here.

quote:

In an impassioned speech made during the inauguration of a power plant in Misamis Oriential on Thursday, Duterte once again lashed out at his foreign critics.

�I am formally announcing the United Nations, Ban Ki-moon, Ban Ki-sun �[or whatever that devil's name is]. I am inviting the EU, [their best and their brightest]. Send the best lawyers of your town. [Even the UN rapporteurs, they should go here to the Philippines]. I will write them a letter to invite them for an investigation,� Duterte said.

�But, in keeping with the time-honored principle of the right to be heard, [after they question me, I will get to question them. All of them! One-by-one.] In an open forum. You can use the Senate or [the] Folk Arts Center, whatever, everybody here will be invited. [Then you will all get to watch. You'll get to see how I will wipe the floor with these devils]� he added.

I've had to do my own translation, but the news report clearly states that "yawa", a word from Duterte's provincial dialect, directly translates into "devil".

#4

The next part of his speech was attacking the UN yet again, including raising his middle finger at the EU, yet again, less than 48 hours after he did it the first time:

quote:

MANILA, Philippines � President Rodrigo Duterte again cursed European Union (EU) officials in a speech on Thursday, September 22.

"[Until now, in the EU, they say, "He is known to issue warnings of killing criminals." I said, "gently caress you."]" said Duterte during a speech aired live on national television and social media. He was speaking at the inauguration of a power plant in Misamis Oriental.

This is the second time Duterte has hurled profanities at the EU. He said the same thing in an event in Davao City on September 20.

On Thursday, he said his curses at EU officials are borne out of frustration for their supposed lack of understanding of the drug "crisis" in the Philippines.

"Why are you complaining so much about me threatening the criminals of the drug syndicates if you consider the fact that we have now 3.7 million drug addicts? By that number alone, it would tell you it's a very serious problem," said a visibly angry Duterte.

On September 15, the European Parliament issued a statement calling on the Duterte government to "put an end" to extrajudicial killings in the Philippines.

While the parliament's members understand the consequences of drug addiction, they said they are also concerned by the "extraordinarily high numbers killed during police operations."

But Duterte said in his Thursday speech that extrajudicial killings "are not the work of the government." He said he is merely threatening criminals.

"You know, there is no crime at all in the Philippines that says I cannot threaten criminals," said the President.

His anger was also directed at United Nations rapporteurs and American "rapporteurs."

"[When I was mayor, it was alright for them to criticize me... But I'm President now and that son-of-a-whore rapporteur is lecturing me.]" said Duterte.

#5

The next part of his speech was attacking Senator De Lima, and specifically her sex life:

quote:

President Rodrigo Duterte on Thursday launched another tirade on Senator Leila De Lima's personal life while mocking her for being unable to file a case against him when he was mayor of Davao City despite his alleged links to death squads in the city.

In a speech at an inauguration of a power plant in Misamis Oriental, Duterte slammed what he called De Lima's "propensity for sex."

�De Lima, she was seven years chairman of Human Rights. [She was harassing me. But she never filed a case] When she was Secretary of Justice, she was building a name at my [expense] [to become more popular]. Now what? She was not only screwing her driver, she was screwing the nation. [So now, where are the human rights? Whose papers did you use?] Where were the papers?� Duterte said.

�All the while because of her propensity for sex. [I've never encountered a woman before that would show herself on social media, smiling like a crazy person, as if nothing happened. Motherfucker (putang ina), if that was my own mother, I'd shoot her myself,]� he added.

Duterte had accused De Lima of having an affair with her former driver Ronnie Dayan. The president also alleged that Dayan was De Lima's link to the drug trade in the national penitentiary. De Lima has not denied the affair, but has denied that she is involved in illegal narcotics.

In his speech, Duterte denied links to the alleged Davao Death Squad, which De Lima had investigated when she was chairman of the Commission on Human Rights.

# ¿ Sep 22, 2016 11:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Philippines: Forget everything you thought you knew about human rights

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