Colin Kaepernick joins the nWo

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > Colin Kaepernick joins the nWo

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

pmchem posted:

Why is Kaep protesting symbols of the federal government -- the flag and anthem -- when the text of his interview focused on abuses by state and local officials (police)?

The federal government is his biggest ally in this cause. It's the DOJ that leads investigations into civil rights abuses by local agencies (pattern-or-practice, https://www.justice.gov/crt/conduct-law-enforcement-agencies ). It's the federal government that honors MLK through law and flag practice ( http://www.legion.org/flag/code ). It's the federal government that has advanced equality in the last 50 years through Supreme Court decisions, executive action, and legislation. To many people, it really does matter that the flag is a federal symbol ( http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2016/08/29/steeler-on-kaepernick-sitting-during-natl-anthem-minorities-are-fighting-for-the-flag/ ). It's state and local governments, rather, that have been the problem during Kaep's lifetime ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrFOb_f7ubw ).

By protesting the flag and anthem, he puts himself in the same camp as the confederate flag / 'War of Northern Aggression' crew: broadly-ranging anger against the federal government. I support the right of both to their freedom of expression: lovely thing, our Constitution. Kaep, myself, and most right thinking people agree that systemic police racism and brutality is horrible. Protesting the feds, Pizza Hut, baseball, tiny dogs in purses, or any number of random things is not a sensible or useful way of bringing about change. It's poor symbolism, and he would be well-served to redirect his protest.

Well, protest is about pushing your allies as much as it is about challenging your enemies. Should MLK have held off on the "I Have a Dream" speech because Kennedy was president?

# ¿ Aug 30, 2016 00:53

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 05:29

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

pmchem posted:

I only wish the dialogue was at that level. I love MLK's speeches, about 12 years ago I bought a set of them on CD and have often listened to them on MLK day. Check out the text:
http://www.drmartinlutherkingjr.com/ihaveadream.htm

He often mentions individual repressive locales. "Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair." His wonderful philosophy of non-violent direct action had specific tests to be met that are largely forgotten by some protesters today:
http://www.thekingcenter.org/archive/document/address-mlk-american-jewish-committee (see pages 4/5)

Even as a young college student ( http://www.drmartinlutherkingjr.com/thepurposeofeducation.htm ), MLK valued clear thought and specific facts more than general broad-ranging propaganda:
"To save man from the morass of propaganda, in my opinion, is one of the chief aims of education. Education must enable one to sift and weigh evidence, to discern the true from the false, the real from the unreal, and the facts from the fiction."

Kaep didn't mention anything about his allies in federal government in his interview. He broadly associated police with an oppressive government, which he is protesting.

MLK pointed out specific examples of injustice. He did not spend his time listing all the good things the government did, for balance. Neither did Thomas Jefferson include another section in the Declaration of Independence listing all the good things the British had done for the colonies.

Nuance is a good thing, but not during a political campaign.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2016 01:16

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

pmchem posted:

MLK did dedicate two of the first four paragraphs in that speech to good things the government had done, but they were not being fully realized by local governments. TJ is a weird analogy to make because the DoI was specifically opposed to the British government. The entire point of my first post was that Kaep's gesture is opposing an entity that is actually his ally; he is missing the mark by grouping all levels of government as one. He ends up opposing the federal government much as in the same way as racists that still fly the confederate flag.

I really don't think that local police are looking at this protest and thinking that Kaep's leaving them off the hook.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2016 02:00

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

Spoeank posted:

oh noooo Kaepernick veered into "Mercator Projection is Racist" territory on twitter

drat Greenland supremacists.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2016 06:08

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

sam bradford lmao posted:

I'd love to live in your bubble

They're actually right about the rest of the world being worse. Not that we're good.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2016 00:06

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

gently caress David Brooks forever.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2016 16:17

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

The handsome, injured man to my left weighs in:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2016/09/17/deandre-levy-colin-kaepernick/90580148/

# ¿ Sep 17, 2016 23:56

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

I think Hillary's heart and plans are in the right place, but pushing her to go further is not a bad idea at all. Though that might not work if it seems like you're writing her off regardless. I really hope Kaep doesn't go down the "blow it all up" path. It's pretty much the opposite of how his protest is working.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2016 19:35

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

CharlestheHammer posted:

Historically candidates don't start conservative and then veer radical once elected.

It's actually usually the opposite.

Usually, but you have Obama and marriage equality, or LBJ and civil rights (deliberate on his part).

# ¿ Sep 28, 2016 20:03

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

Aw, why do you have to be that way, RBG?

# ¿ Oct 10, 2016 17:24

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

Y'all know this isn't Scalia, right? RBG isn't some bigoted nut, even if her statement was stupid.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2016 19:05

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

Marquis de Pyro posted:

How do you decide who is a bigoted nut other than their public statements and actions?

I mean, besides their political beliefs of course!

Um, yes. Such as the beliefs she's literally written into law.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2016 00:58

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

Hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey.

gently caress you, Kalli. gently caress you. I hope you come to hate yourself as much as Donald Trump hates minorities.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 12:46

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

I don't expect anything to get through your thick skull for at least a year. I am not blaming you, but I am repulsed by your sick "I told you so" mindset that sadly, many people share with you. gently caress you forever.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 15:36

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

I would hate Kalli even if Hillary had won. You can't act in a way such that everyone acting by the same reasoning would produce the outcome you don't want. Michigan and Pennsylvania were safe Democratic states for decades, until they weren't.

And regarding Kaep, now he has a president that supports cops killing black people. That thought the Central Park should have been executed. This is an extinction-level event.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 16:01

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

A.o.D. posted:

This wouldn't have happened if the democrats hadn't put up such an awful candidate. Both parties are complicit in this outcome, and neither one deserves to chart the course of public policy.

I feel so much better now, thanks! :downs:

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 17:18

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

Democracy is still good.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 19:15

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

Oh God, Kaep saw this meme and actually took it to heart.

Stupid Kaep

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 20:19

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

Jonathan Fisk posted:

I guess he wasn't one of the good ones, after all

gently caress that, you're referring to the cases when the means are criticized when it's obvious that the critic never agreed with the ends to begin with. I commend Kaep for his protests, but telling people "gently caress it, we're all dead no matter what," is a nihilistic, disastrous message. And I'm not going to condescend to Kaep by pretending otherwise.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 21:18

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

Jonathan Fisk posted:

lt was the black man's vote that put the present administration in Washington, D.C. Your vote, your dumb vote, your ignorant vote, your wasted vote put in an administration in Washington, D.C., that has seen fit to pass every kind of legislation imaginable, saving you until last, then filibustering on top of that. And your and my leaders have the audacity to run around clapping their hands and talk about how much progress we're making. And what a good president we have.

Agreed, Obama is a great president, but the next four years are going to turn a potential Harry S Truman into a Ulysses S. Grant. I am very sad.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 22:31

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

Coldforge posted:

It's a hugely important speech, and everyone should read or listen to it. To answer you directly, I think Kap is still finding his particular answers, it's just unfortunate that he's doing it on a very public stage.

This is a great point and that's a great speech. If Kaep had some kind of coherent plan for leverage it would be one thing. And it's weird, because it became clear that he had put a lot of thought into his protest and minimized the ammo he gave to his critics.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 23:41

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

I guess this goes here.

ESPN posted:

Five NFL players on Tuesday traveled to Capitol Hill to discuss police brutality and race issues with members of Congress, including a possible meeting with Speaker of the House Paul Ryan.

The meetings were conceived by Detroit Lions wide receiver Anquan Boldin, who is known for his off-the-field community work. The group will include four other players -- Boldin's teammate, safety Glover Quin; Philadelphia Eagles safety Malcolm Jenkins; and Cleveland Browns quarterback Josh McCown and wide receiver Andrew Hawkins.

Boldin told ESPN's Jim Trotter that he asked those players because they are "all guys who are well-respected in the league and who have the same goal as myself."

The players are scheduled to meet with Reps. Patrick Murphy, D-Florida; Keith Ellison, D-Minnesota; and Daniel Webster, R-Florida, as well as members of the Congressional Black Caucus.

The meetings were organized by Andrew Blejwas, an associate director of marketing for The Nature Conservancy who also advises players like Boldin on how they can have more influence off the field. The NFL Players Association also worked to arrange the meetings with Ryan, R-Wisconsin, and with some members of the White House staff.

Boldin told Trotter there's a "huge mistrust" between the police and the African-American community.

"I want to help close that gap," he said.

McCown, the only white player in the group, said he's going to listen.

"I don't believe we, as white people, can understand what African-Americans go through on a daily basis, because it's different," McCown said. "For me, first and foremost, I want to be able to acknowledge that, and say that our stories are different and our histories are different, but let's just try to be a part of making it better moving forward."

Good for all of them. Good for McCown.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 17:59

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

Hillary would be a much better president than Trump. Let's not surrender to the blanket cynics on that.

# ¿ Nov 16, 2016 17:43

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

How can anyone possibly say "slightly better"? Have you forgotten how bad things can get? All the horrible things that Trump has promised? Did you read the Democratic platform?

Do people not understand that the Democrats become more liberal when they win and more conservative when they lose?

I will stop contributing to the derail with this post.

# ¿ Nov 16, 2016 18:09

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

The337th posted:

Also, President Hilldawg would be better in a 4 year sense, but if we maybe survive our Christian Fascist Vice President and Trump's egomaniacal reign there's a possible reality now for a Democratic party that brings back some badly needed populism into our system. I'll take a shot at that reality just as quickly as the risk of incumbent Clinton facing a loving Ted Cruz 2020 type of horrorshow reality.

[sticks power drill up nose]

Tanking doesn't work in the NFL, which is designed to reward it, why would it work in real life? And let me tell you, a lot of people aren't going to survive this. But I'm sure you'll appreciate their sacrifice.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2016 16:28

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 05:29

Shangri-Law School: Feb 19, 2013

The337th posted:

It is very presumptive of you to assume someone you're talking to has any of the required privilege to survive the worst of what this presidency could cause.

My apologies, I thought you were being cavalier. But if you are worried about basic survival under Trump, were you really expecting the same under Hillary?

# ¿ Nov 18, 2016 16:03

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > Colin Kaepernick joins the nWo