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Helical Nightmares posted:Jesus. So he wrote a full novel prior? His pitch for B5 was TV as a "visual novel."
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Sep 2, 2016 14:06
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Volcott posted:DS9 never had Jack the Ripper show up. Are you even trying, Berman? Kirk had already destroyed Jack the Ripper. Guess you can't expect B5 fans to know anything about sci-fi. http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Wolf_in_the_Fold_(episode)
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Sep 2, 2016 14:30
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Helical Nightmares posted:Jesus. So he wrote a full novel prior? Not quite, he had a file of index cards with episode breakdowns, but had to leave a lot of room for the expected unexpected production changes. For example, each character had an "out" in case the actor left, etc., like Talia being a deep-cover PsiCorps plant. And of course you always improvise some and take cues as the actors develop their characters. JMS wrote a eulogy for Jerry Doyle and included this gem: "There is a line in Babylon 5 where his character, Michael Garibaldi, suggests that the way to deal with crime is to go from electric chairs to electric bleachers. That line is quintessential Jerry Doyle. I say this with confidence because I overheard him saying it at lunch then stole it for the show."
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Sep 2, 2016 18:17
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b5 is a show about a cast of misfits that was realistically cast with misfits
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Sep 2, 2016 18:35
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Indy posted:Londo is the poo poo
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Sep 2, 2016 23:25
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as for the original question, sheridan got that swagger
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Sep 2, 2016 23:26
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Pick posted:b5 is a show about a cast of misfits that was realistically cast with misfits This really sums it up, and is a good part of the reason it resonates so well with a lot of people. They're mostly a bunch of misfit underdogs struggling against their own worst instincts to do the right thing, some succeeding and some not, and the casting makes it come off genuine. It's bleak at times, and skeptical, but never cynical. It's all in earnest. It's a show for the seekers; you won't get nearly as much out of it without that nature.
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Sep 3, 2016 02:14
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EX-GAIJIN AT LAST posted:This really sums it up, and is a good part of the reason it resonates so well with a lot of people. They're mostly a bunch of misfit underdogs struggling against their own worst instincts to do the right thing, some succeeding and some not, and the casting makes it come off genuine. It's bleak at times, and skeptical, but never cynical. It's all in earnest. It's a show for the seekers; you won't get nearly as much out of it without that nature. That's a really good insight. The casting is superb, even if they're not the best actors, because they give it their all and they're bringing a lot of heart to the performances. Take Jerry Doyle, the most recent of B5's dearly departed. The guy was basically playing himself and Doyle's self doesn't seem like the nicest person to be around. That story JMS mentions in the eulogy, of Jerry haranguing a guest star? That wasn't a no-name actor he was yelling at. It was one of their big name award-winning guest stars. He broke an arm on set during the filming of Severed Dreams and that footage was used. Michael O'Hare, suffering from severe mental illness while playing a character with war-induced PTSD and a 'hole in his mind'. Jeff Conaway, playing a 2IC who was 'given a second chance' and was doing his best not to screw it up. Mira Furlan, Delenn, from war-torn Yugoslavia who then had a plot about her homeworld breaking into sectarian civil war. You could find something like that, some grey reflection, for every actor on the show, probably right down to a lot of the guest stars who, themselves, did wonderful things for the characters they played. Take, for example, Bester's distinctive 'dead' hand which was purely an invention of Walter Koenig. B5's central message - that 'faith manages' - is only enhanced by the more you know about the show and the people involved. It's really quite remarkable.
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Sep 3, 2016 02:49
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Milky Moor posted:That's a really good insight. The casting is superb, even if they're not the best actors, because they give it their all and they're bringing a lot of heart to the performances. Thank you for writing this, it makes me appreciate the show even more!
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Sep 3, 2016 18:45
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The actors beloved in the show and it really comes across
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Sep 4, 2016 16:11
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Gatekeeper posted:My fav part of b5 was the season one opening when Sinclair is talking about the station and he says in an extremely true-crime show narrator voice "it can be a dangerous place..." while they show him creepin around with a lil gun Some people give season 1 grief, but I really like the sense it gives of Babylon 5 - a giant, miles-long space colony carrying a quarter-million people - being this little flickering campfire way out in the deep dark cosmos. Later on in the series it becomes a center of civilization in its own right, and that makes sense, but I do still love the way the music and visuals and editing create a sense of remote isolation in that first season.
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Sep 5, 2016 17:12
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For all its faults, B5 is still one of the only TV shows to have a real honest-to-god story arc over several seasons (obviously just seasons 1-4, with a good finish in the last couple episodes of season 5). The story feels like it's actually progressing, it has a real trajectory, and it has real setups and payoffs. It's perhaps the only show I know of that promises big revelations and actually delivers on them, it doesn't feel like the story was written as they went (like Battlestar Galactica). DS9 was such a rip off. What an incredible piece of poo poo. I literally came up with a better ending for that forgettable garbage 5 minutes after watching it. Like, have the wormhole beings, who exist out of time, be the evolved form of the intermixing of the Bajorans and Cardassians, and they need Sisko to broker a peace between them so they can take that first evolutionary step. There is literally no point to the story or to why Sisko is so drat special, except that they wanted to make him like Sheridan from B5. There is no sci-fi payoff or anything.
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Sep 5, 2016 17:49
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Dr. Bit posted:DS9 was such a rip off. What an incredible piece of poo poo. I literally came up with a better ending for that forgettable garbage 5 minutes after watching it. Like, have the wormhole beings, who exist out of time, be the evolved form of the intermixing of the Bajorans and Cardassians, and they need Sisko to broker a peace between them so they can take that first evolutionary step. There is literally no point to the story or to why Sisko is so drat special, except that they wanted to make him like Sheridan from B5. There is no sci-fi payoff or anything. Rip-off or no, DS9 is outstanding and a wonderful addition to Trek. Explaining what the Prophets were really trying to accomplish would have sort of defeated the purpose of having an unknowable higher being be a major element of a show's lore. The miraculous conception stuff and the chosen one nonsense was only really silly in the final season, and for a point--the rest of the show explores instead the political ramifications of being named a holy man of an alien religion, and also focuses on six and a half years worth of character development and great little adventures. If you want to say it's inferior to B5, that's your opinion and maybe quite valid, but DS9 remains in its own right a fantastic show, possibly even the best Star Trek show of them all.
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Sep 5, 2016 18:50
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Sheridan is a stereotypical loud American idiot and I can't believe you people like him
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Sep 5, 2016 18:57
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Rip-off or no, DS9 is outstanding and a wonderful addition to Trek. Explaining what the Prophets were really trying to accomplish would have sort of defeated the purpose of having an unknowable higher being be a major element of a show's lore. The miraculous conception stuff and the chosen one nonsense was only really silly in the final season, and for a point--the rest of the show explores instead the political ramifications of being named a holy man of an alien religion, and also focuses on six and a half years worth of character development and great little adventures. If you want to say it's inferior to B5, that's your opinion and maybe quite valid, but DS9 remains in its own right a fantastic show, possibly even the best Star Trek show of them all. I was perhaps being too harsh; I thought the characters were fun and the individual episodes of DS9 were often very good. But put a LITTLE effort into the overall story line. Bajorans are good, Cardassians are bad. Wormhole beings are good, shoehorned-in Wormhole Demons are bad. My point was simply that I'm not getting paid to do this and I came up with something better, they could've at least put SOME nuance and thought into it. It also isn't much of a sci-fi story, just a good/bad political drama. I probably would've liked it much more if I had no expectations. Everyone said DS9 is so great, and I loved B5 which sets the bar insanely high in terms of story. The cards were stacked against it. It's surprising, because of all the Trek shows DS9 had some of the most grey-area characters in terms of morality. The fact that the major political story of the show was overwhelmingly black and white was disappointing. By contrast, B5 was exactly the opposite. You sympathized with all of these characters, understood the pressures and circumstances they were in, and felt bad for them when they made terrible decisions. I kept waiting for the same thing in DS9 with the Cardassians, and it seemed like they were heading in that direction in a few episodes, but ultimately didn't.
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Sep 5, 2016 19:44
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nah, even the cardassians were sympathetic. B5 may have had a few characters who knocked it out of the park in that respect but for the most part it was very hard to give a poo poo about the rest of the characters. All that poo poo with Garibaldi, who the gently caress cared? B5s storyline was cool and it was definitely ahead of its time, and I appreciate how much the cast and crew really loved their show, but as a whole the ds9 cast was much better and much easier to become invested in. It was like a whole cast of gkars and londos instead of those two being the exception.
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Sep 5, 2016 20:13
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the had to turn dukat into a comic book supervillian at the end in order to make the audience realize he was a bad guy, that's how sympathetic he was
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Sep 5, 2016 20:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpb1OXvNNMc
Typical Pubbie fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 5, 2016 20:16
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It was funny that bajor had every possible problem a society could have, like the sociological equivalent of the family from seventh heaven. Castes and religion intermixed with politics and racism and extreme nationalism and resource misallocation and whatever the hell else. Babylon 5's ongoing story was genuinely interesting and thoughtful, 80% of ds9's ended with a wet fart with nonsense about pah wraiths. Like, okay, Garak was cool, but still pretty juvenile compared to Londo and G'kar, and no one else came close
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Sep 5, 2016 20:16
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Don't get me wrong, B5 is the better show for being more original and having the better story, but ds9 wasn't a bad show and was better than b5 in plenty of respects. I still think it's more fun to watch, in general.
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Sep 5, 2016 20:17
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Gatekeeper posted:Don't get me wrong, B5 is the better show for being more original and having the better story, but ds9 wasn't a bad show and was better than b5 in plenty of respects. I still think it's more fun to watch, in general. Also, it seemed pretty obvious me that the whole point of writing in a trill was to have them lose a host as part of the series. So why did they then compromise by writing in a plucky new character instead of making the audience actually feel the loss? Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 5, 2016 20:23
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Also, it seemed pretty obvious me that the whole point of writing in a trill was to have them lose a host as part of the series. So why did they then compromise by writing in a plucky new character instead of making the audience actually feel the loss? Ezri Dax imo represents the hope and optimism of youth and the future of the Federation during the darkness of war. She's meant to demonstrate by her own inexperience just how far the main cast had grown and developed. Sisko is a legendary war hero at this stage, Kira is probably the most important Bajoran of them all, with close ties to both religious and political circles, Worf is Worf, Bashir is a decorated genius, and so on. Jadzia had really hit her peak with her wedding to Worf, so she's the obvious candidate to write off. Ezri is there to have a character that is grounded, relatable, and not really a super bad-rear end, mega-genius or Garak. She's also super duper cute.
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Sep 5, 2016 20:38
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She entered at a time when stories are meant to be concluding and the audience is the least receptive to new characters. I didn't dislike her or anything, I just wasn't invested in her and knew I never would be. It was good for them to kill jadzia, it just took away from the feeling of loss the audience was supposed to feel - it would have said a lot more about the reality of war if there was a gap in the cast instead of a cute new stand in ready to take her place. Mentioning that dax was off in some other host was fine, but she didn't belong in the show. She could have featured on voyager or something.
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Sep 5, 2016 20:46
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:She could have featured on voyager or something. The cruelest possible fate.
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Sep 5, 2016 20:47
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I think the point of having a trill was to have sisko's old friend/mentor in the body of a hot young woman, honestly, I don't think they ever intended to lose a host and the Vic Fontaine episodes were great so smdyfm
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Sep 5, 2016 20:52
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Can we all agree the mirror universe episodes were the worst thing about DS9? Yes, worse than Jake Sisko and Nog.
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Sep 5, 2016 21:07
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NihilismNow posted:Can we all agree the mirror universe episodes were the worst thing about DS9? Literally the best ones. Evil Kira is a treat, a treasure, a delight. Pirate Sisko is the highlight performance of his career.
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Sep 5, 2016 21:11
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I respect anyone who rocks outfits like this:
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Sep 5, 2016 21:14
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In the mirror universe, Chief O'Brien is called "Smiley" because him being a dour sourpuss is actually a cosmic constant. Evidenced as well by O'Brien being displaced in time multiple times
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Sep 5, 2016 21:15
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what the hell is all this Deep Space Nine poo poo? this thread is for people who want to see the show with real characters.  Okay but seriously this is a good website for interviews with people who did art on Babylon 5: http://babylon5.infinispace.net/
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Sep 5, 2016 22:31
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CaptainSarcastic posted:Stargate SG1 was better than DS9 or B5 in any case. gently caress you.
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Sep 5, 2016 22:44
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claudia christian is still pretty hot and has a bunch of stories about JMS being a total m'lady goon towards her
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Sep 5, 2016 22:47
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:gently caress you. 
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Sep 5, 2016 22:59
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Speaking of, CBS has a reboot of Macguyver coming out soon. Patti and Selma are rolling in their graves.
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Sep 6, 2016 00:14
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:claudia christian is still pretty hot I think there was a story about how when they were filming a cameo of Teen Ivanova for one of the B5 TV movies that they were either not going to do the scene or hire a different actress until she showed them that she pretty much looked the same as she did in the late 90s as she did as teen.
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Sep 6, 2016 03:12
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evobatman posted:Thank you for writing this, it makes me appreciate the show even more! Adding on to this... It turns out that Jerry Doyle passed away due to complications from chronic alcoholism. Which is something that haunted his character, Garibaldi, too. Tragic.
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Sep 6, 2016 09:24
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Andreas Katsulas was actually strangled by his boyhood rival. Edit: cool my phone knew I was typing Katsulas
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Sep 6, 2016 20:21
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Wanna write some fanfic that involves Garak moving his shop to Bab5 and making suits for Londo.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:31
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Jack of Hearts posted:Wanna write some fanfic that involves Garak moving his shop to Bab5 and making suits for Londo. Garak would be cool on B5. Great actor, character.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:45
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Helical Nightmares posted:Garak would be cool on B5. Great actor, character.
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Sep 7, 2016 00:53
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