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Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

Also I love that they're selling the WD brand name for an extra $50 for an upclocked x400 :allears:
With a shorter warranty!

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Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Bob Morales posted:

Consumer SSD's started to hit the market in what, 2008/2009?
Consumer storage dollars don't matter in the grand scheme when compared to enterprise and OEM dollars.

Bob Morales posted:

they have ... the supply chain...
But they didn't. If you go back, you'll see smart people saying "they don't have NAND manufacturing capability so they can't get costs low enough for it to make business sense for them." It's always been about the NAND. The companies that have capitalized the most on the SSD revolution all have NAND manufacturing capabilities: Samsung, Intel, and Toshiba.

Bob Morales posted:

Or, are we still waiting?
WD now has access to NAND via their HGST acquisition (Intel partnership) and their SanDisk acquisition (Toshiba partnership). We'll likely see them make concerted efforts in the enterprise SSD space, and half-hearted consumer stuff just to keep the brand name out there.

Star War Sex Parrot fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Oct 12, 2016

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Evidently there are enough NVMe products in the pipe from other manufacturers
I expect we'll see a lot of products announced at CES.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

priznat posted:

Raid 0 m.2 pcie of course :haw:
This is one of our tests that we have to run regularly, and every time I wonder "who the gently caress is gonna RAID 0 m.2 PCIe SSDs in an Intel NUC?"

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

I'd be fascinated to see these articles as well.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

gonna have to wait until manufacturers other than intel (which surprised me) start the race to the bottom on nvme
NAND shortage is a hell of a thing.

Hell, my WD stock is going gangbusters because the HDD market isn't crashing as fast as people thought it was, probably due to NAND constraints on the mobile market.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

The 2TB NVMe drive in my new laptop sure seems nice.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Rabid Snake posted:

The 1TB NVMe in the new 2016 MacBook Pros are insanely fast already, I can't imagine the 2TB model.
The only somewhat decent macOS SSD benchmark seems to max out at 2000 MB/s so I can't get accurate numbers, and I'm too lazy to install Windows 10 just to run benchmarks.

edit: I assume the numbers would turn out very similar to the 2TB 960 Pro's benchmarks anyway

Star War Sex Parrot fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Feb 8, 2017

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

SlayVus posted:

Unless you're willing to spend $1400 for the 2TB 960 Pro. Then it's worth it for the pro. /S
I mean, it's really fast in my machine.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Yeah I honestly can't tell a difference in my everyday workloads between the ~1 GB/s PCIe drive I got 3 years ago and the ~2-3 GB/s PCIe drive I have now.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

You forgot Gold, and Green is no more -- at least for HDDs. They might be rebranding some SanDisk SSDs as Green.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Hell yeah I worked on that.

Potato Salad posted:

Now that they're just using the x400 firmware outright, yes.
That too.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Bob Morales posted:

The hell did you get 6GB systems?
I've still got quite a few Nehalem machines here at work that were originally built with 6GB of RAM due to the triple-channel memory architecture. But that's an increasingly rare answer to that question.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Thanks Ants posted:

Is there such a thing as M.2 PCIe SSDs that aren't also NVMe?
Yes. M.2 supports 3 different protocols: Legacy SATA, AHCI over PCIe, and NVMe over PCIe.

Thanks Ants posted:

I am trying to find a suitable SSD for a Dell Optiplex 7040 Micro and can't seem to find anything official that states that it can take NVMe drives.
I might have some of these around the lab. I'll poke around.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

xPanda posted:

I think one of the three supported protocols is USB3, and you can lump SATA and AHCI together, but that doesn't really change the answer.
Right, I was talking storage device protocols. I haven't seen anything use USB in M.2 for storage purposes.

Also you can't lump Legacy SATA and AHCI together. They're two distinct implementations: one goes over the SATA PHY and the other is AHCI over the PCIe PHY.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

We're configuring all of our lab's NVMe systems as U.2 now, and then using adapters when testing M.2. I've spent most of today assembling these drat things.



Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Seamonster posted:

I've seen tons of $/MB trends for RAM and $/GB trends for storage but what about $/MB/s?
Latency is the more interesting metric with SSDs. Bandwidth is easy and not as impactful for most workloads. Most of the time I can’t tell the difference between a 1GB/s, 2GB/s, and 3GB/s SSD as long as they’re all sitting on PCIe with NVMe.

As far as latency is concerned, without an interconnect closer to the CPU than PCIe (unlikely and probably unnecessary) or a new NVM technology besides NAND (the jury is still out on 3D XPoint) I’m not sure there’s much room for meaningful performance improvements in consumer SSDs right now.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

When did you buy this? I didn’t know Toshiba still made hybrid disks.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

BIG HEADLINE posted:

A repair install of Windows might not hurt, either. Rewrite all of the DLLs and such.
He’s reset and reimaged Windows 10 already.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Unrelated: I wrote a toy SSD flash translation layer to handle page allocation, garbage collection, and wear leveling, and that poo poo ain’t easy. I also have a newfound respect for how helpful TRIM can be for the FTL to handle its business.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

WhyteRyce posted:

at high queue depths then sure
Which is a workload that doesn't really make sense for Optane anyway. I get the impression that Intel's kinda broken most of the tech media's benchmarks, and the writers just haven't figured it out yet.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

I imagine we'll need to see the same shift in benchmarking toward 99th+ percentile latency type testing that happened with GPUs applied to SSDs. Average latency/IOPs is becoming less meaningful when consistency is what NAND is bad at. Optane crushes NAND in these sorts of tests, but the benchmarks are bad at expressing that information right now.

Star War Sex Parrot fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Oct 31, 2017

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

nielsm posted:

What's the chance any data are still readable?
I believe for client SSDs of that vintage, Intel was claiming one year of powered off data retention. I'd say chances are low, but maybe you'll be surprised.

nielsm posted:

Assuming I don't need to recover any data, could the SSD be erased and usable further without degradation?
Should be able to.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Nill posted:

but should page files still be offloaded to spinning discs? Indexer & sys restore disabled?
None of these should have ever been done, but there was a lot of FUD about flash endurance in the early days.

edit: Maybe you would have moved the page file (and other services that generate a lot of writes) off of an SSD in the pre-TRIM days to stave off write amplification, but that's about the only scenario I can imagine someone trying to justify that.

Star War Sex Parrot fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Dec 19, 2017

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Yeah, I'd honestly be happy with a 2TB SSD that was speed-limited to 300/300 just to banish spinners altogether for everything but my NAS box.
Yeah having a 2TB NVMe SSD is really nice.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Shaocaholica posted:

Is that hang time the OS sending the SSD all unused blocks and the SSD zeroing them?
It's probably issuing TRIM to all of the unused LBAs, but I've never watched the specific behavior of trimforce through an analyzer. The SSD's behavior is indeterminate since different FTLs do whatever the hell they want.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

BobHoward posted:

Another point against using DBAN on SSDs is that by its nature DBAN wants to overwrite several times, and that’s not good for your SSD’s lifespan.
Does DBAN write zeroes or random data? An FTL optimization I'd try would be to only allocate a physical page to an LBA if the value being written is non-zero. In theory then a multiple DBAN pass wouldn't actually affect NAND life unless that process writes non-zero data to the LBAs.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

idgi is that supposed to be good?

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

redeyes posted:

What?! I've seen way way more Toshiba based SSDs in Macs than anything else.
And I've seen way more Samsung based SSDs in Macs, so where does that leave us?

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Paul MaudDib posted:

Game running on juiced-up engine from 1995 isn't optimized for SSD performance!? :chanpop:
They mentioned on the previous page that it’s affecting all games.

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Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Cygni posted:

What does substandard nand even mean? Is the claim that they don’t meet the speed or durability ratings on the box? And if so, what evidence is there?
I'm curious whose "substandard NAND" they're accused of using. There are like, 6 manufacturers: Samsung, Toshiba, Sandisk/WD, Micron, Hynix, and Intel.

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