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Production sets are complicated things with way more moving parts than most realize and the "below the line" talent is really unappreciated.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:14
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I mean, my assumption has been all along that the happy Flashpoint alternate reality will last for like half an episode before Barry starts dealing with all the previously established stuff that get pissed off when you gently caress with the time line and then he "corrects" it within half a dozen episodes if not 1-3. Which would allow them to change a few things and leave a perpetual "anything can happen" later aspect as well as take the other shows off the hook for any Flashpoint changes unless they really want them (like bringing Laurel back from the dead, but I imagine they could just use her on Flash and Legends if they really wanted to and wait a season to resurrect her).
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Sep 25, 2016 00:55
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Yeah, not telling your ex-fiance about your new boyfriend isn't really in the realm of "comic book secrets." She's just avoiding awkward conversations and hurting his feelings. At least until he turns out to be Prometheus and it turns out he's been learning everything about all the super heroes by stealing it from Felicity.
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Oct 17, 2016 22:47
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Slade's son. Duh. Or maybe Wintergreen's. Or some Russian guy we haven't met yet. Ok, Prometheus is actually Slade's son who ended up retreating into the Bratva until Oliver showed up and hosed all that up so he joined the League of Assassins and was taught my Malcolm until Oliver hosed that up too, so he's the son of Slade, Malcolm, and whatever Russsian guy Oliver is trying to kill and now he's posing as Felicity's boyfriend to gather intel on Arrow and everyone else before seeking his revenge. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Oct 18, 2016 |
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Oct 18, 2016 00:36
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Hollismason posted:Green Arrow and The Outsiders or just The Outsiders would be really good. I love this. I was thinking all episode how even though I don't love this new team yet they feel more like a comic book team like the JLA or JSA than just "Team Arrow" like the old crew. Ragman, Mr. Terrific, and Wild Dog are all their own thing away from Arrow and it feels more like a hero team than even the Legends feels like. Outsiders is perfect for them and I didn't think of it, but I hope its what they become. Its a very different feel for the show. Its still Arrow but now its Arrow and the Outsiders. I didn't love Curtis' Terrific look but I assume its still a work in progress. He's still gotta work in those T-Spheres from last season/the comics. The actor will obviously never look exactly like the comic character and I have to get past that, but I like the TV and comic characters enough to do it. Ragman is interesting. Its very different to have a supernatural player on the team. I assume Evelyn not getting a name yet will be about Oliver struggling with keeping his promise to Laurel and making sure there's always a Black Canary. There will be a big dramatic reveal when she gets it and someone will object. At least until Laurel gets Flashpointed back in (no spoilers, just assuming). Wild Dog looks silly but I enjoy Oliver having to deal with an even more hot headed version of himself. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Oct 21, 2016 |
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Oct 21, 2016 09:12
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I like that true to character consistency. I liked the part where they all thought The Hood was Roy who died in prison because that's what anyone not in the inner circle and just going on the news probably would have thought. I liked how it was Evelyn who was most bothered because he shot down her own quest for revenge. How Ragman was kind of like "ok, I went on a revenge kick too but a list is kind of extreme." They just did a good job juggling a lot of characters having proper reactions for themselves and not just the narrative. Unlike some others in here I don't think Oliver should just start murdering everyone with no remorse. That would be a major step backwards for his character and make most of these people working with him untrue to their characters if they went with it. He found his sweet spot with Damian Darkh where he'll kill if he needs to but doesn't use it as a first resort. Now he's just got all this residual guilt for what he's done that he has to deal with in a new way with fresh eyes with these recruits. Which is good. That's a hurdle Oliver SHOULD have to deal with when he's telling a bunch of new vigilantes to not do the things he did when he started.
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Nov 12, 2016 01:16
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When you take on a bunch of new proteges something like "I was previously an unrepentant serial killer before I made friends" is going to end up rearing its head sooner or later. That episode wasn't really about Oliver wrestling with it anymore. He had one talk with Diggle to reassure himself that he had changed. Diggle and Felicity weren't upset because they've dealt with this already. It was about the new kids coming to terms with what is an unquestionably horrible past. If anything, people who don't want to rehash this should probably be happy that it seemed to largely get resolved in this episode. It could have gotten strung out a lot more in typical Arrow/CW fashion. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 01:24
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Klungar posted:So is Prometheus Sportsmaster, or would that get too confusing with Wild Dog and Casey Jones already being on the show? There's already a DC supervillain named Prometheus who is basically an evil Batman who fights great and schemes elaborate ways to take down heroes. So I assume Prometheus is just Prometheus and this is more of Arrow stealing pretty heavily from Batman.
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Nov 18, 2016 23:12
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Well, I assumed it was an adjusted Prometheus. Comic one isnt a Batman villain either but a JLA one but I was assuming they just grounded him to make a more appropriate version of "villain who wants to take down heroes and comes up with elaborate ways to". But if they've officially shot that down then I dunno. I'm still betting on Felicity's boyfriend who gets way too much mention for such a barely there character.
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Nov 18, 2016 23:25
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Yeah, it's been a throwaway thing done for the sake of the sole Arrow nod at Flashpoint but it's not as if Sara Diggle was in any shape or form a character. I'm sure John and Lyla loved their son just as much and had the same feelings when he was threatened as their daughter and Sara Lance came back from the dead anyway so the emotion of naming their kid to honor her is kinda moot. I mean, it's kind of dark that Sara Diggle disappeared from existence and if you told John and Lyla they might feel weird about losing a daughter they never knew to gain the son they love. But there'd be no reason or person around Arrow to bring up that odd philosophical question.
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Nov 19, 2016 16:48
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It was just a way to show Flashpoint affecting the Arrow characters without it actually affecting the Arrow show. Because it would have been kind of dumb for Flashpoint to NOT affect anything on Arrow, but it would have been super confusing for Arrow fans who don't watch Flash to make it something really meaningful to the show like someone coming back to life or having powers or something. So it manages to tick both boxes. It means something huge to the characters and sells the weight of it but means nothing really to the actual making or viewing of the show and can be explained off in with one line about "Flash, timey wimey". Although the episode description for the Arrow episode of the crossover seems to hint that we may get a delayed Flashpoint episode, so that could address this more or affect more changes. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Nov 19, 2016 |
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Nov 19, 2016 20:20
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Maybe, but the description also had something about Barry revealing an upsetting confession, which you assume would be Flashpoint/Diggle's kid. But I'd be interested in seeing why an invading alien force would deem distracting The Green Arrow as key to its success.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:36
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BreakAtmo posted:Honestly, that scene always gave me the vibe that Prometheus wasn't learning anything new. Yeah, Church is all smug about knowing and pricing his value and Prometheus shows no surprise but just kills him. Definitely played like I was non news to Prometheus.
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Nov 27, 2016 06:46
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Darkh obviously still killed (or "killed") Laurel post Flashpoint as they have the statue and Evelyn and all the grief. But Flashpoint presumably changed something else which either resurrected her or saved her. So, purely hypothetically, something like in Flashpoint Nyssa never destroyed the Lazarus Pits and is Ra's Al Ghul so she used the Pit to save Laurel. I'm pulling that out of my rear end but it's the sort of thing that could have changed that wouldn't have been brought up by now.
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Dec 13, 2016 17:55
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I had no idea he was voiced by someone famous. Like, I know who "Word" is but I doubt I'd recognize the actor if he knocked on my door. But also I didn't care that Zoom wasn't Tony Todd or that Savitar wont be Jigsaw.
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Dec 14, 2016 17:17
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Its really weird to learn that the reason they employ "guest voices" is that some fans are crazy and do audio editing on the show.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:26
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Felicity's whole stint in the wheelchair would seem more meaningful if it was used to really launch the idea of Curtis as a real genius for inventing stuff like what let her walk. It would seem like the obvious course with them already teasing him inventing the T-Spheres and turning him into Mr. Terrific, but now even if/when they introduce them it will feel out of left field since Curtis hasn't been properly presented as this genius engineer the way they remind you that with Ray or Cisco. Or maybe Arrow just can't figure out the sfx for the spheres. But drat them for teasing them if that's the case.
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Jan 13, 2017 11:36
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I don't think Curtis is "clumsy" so much as he's the one who clearly has no previous fighting experience. He's athletic and I think the fact that he can even keep up with Oliver, Diggle, and Dog theoretically shows that but they're all soldiers (of some kind of another) so it would be silly if he was their equal after a few months of training. But yeah, it makes him look clumsy and awkward. By best guess is that this and the story with his husband wanting him out will lead to Curtis realizing he's of better use behind the scenes developing tech with Felicity. But for now he's just following Oliver's lead and trying to be a costumed vigilante because it seems like "the way". He's a lovely Mr Terrific and that's disappointing as a fan of the character. But ah well.
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Jan 16, 2017 11:21
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From what I remember Terrific started as one of the "second generation recruits" of the Justice Society and eventually became their leader. He was a genius, an engineer who made stuff like the T-Spheres, and one of the team's doctors. He was in crazy good shape and could fight really well but it was more about the Spheres and him being like the tactical general of the team. It was sort of a weird choice for Arrow since he's never going to lead Arrow's team or overtake him and the T-Spheres probably aren't practical for the show. A lot of the thing with Terrific that I remember was that the JSA was this mix of veteran old guys and inexperienced kids and Terrific rose from the latter to bridge the gap between the two. Plus there was this whole backstory subplot with him where his wife and daughter died tragically which not only motivated him but also made him deeply cynical and athiest, which then gets challenged by all the stuff the JSA encounter. It just seems like a lot of character stuff that will never fit with Curtis so I'm left kind of thinking that Arrow probably just picked a random hero so they could throw in the T-Sphere easter eggs and didn't really anticipate how it would play a year or two later when he put on a costume. I'm saying all this so I should say, I mostly like Curtis. He just happens to be portraying a character I liked back when I read comics and since they're not really doing much with that its left me a little cold.
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Jan 16, 2017 13:56
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I don't know if it was new information but I haven't seen it mentioned in the thread. When Diggle and Oliver are discussing Prometheus its implied that Talia taught both Oliver and Prometheus. That seems like a huge thing that either was never mentioned before this episode or I missed entirely. Also I love that the payoff for this will have to be that Oliver just never mentioned Talia during all that Ra's/Nyssa stuff. Which is 100% in character. That episode really set up a lot between Talia and all the complicated implications, the new Canary, the possibility of Earth 2 Laurel sticking around, and Curtis moving away from the fighting and towards the "tinkering" so we can hopefully get T-Spheres by the season finale. Aphrodite posted:That's okay because Sara was around then. They love Sara. And she's gay so if they ever kill her (for reals) fans will lose their loving poo poo. God help them if they give her a girlfriend.
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Jan 29, 2017 18:56
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I didn't get the vibe off the hacker girl that she'd become an ally/friend. If she returns I kind of felt like it will be as an antagonist. Basically the whole thing I got from her "you sold out" stuff and "Pandora" is that Felicity will be tempted to go all "cyber vigilante" but she'll find a line that the "hacktavists" don't have. I don't know if it will self contained to Felicity struggling with finding the line or if she'll end up at odds with whatever the name of that group was, but I assume this is going to be her own version of Oliver's "going too far."
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Feb 3, 2017 23:23
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I mean, on some level I think his point is obviously that there's a difference between killing people when you're in the heat of battle or in self defense and executing a helpless prisoner for revenge. But on the other hand I laughed uncontrollably when Oliver just shot down a helicopter in the middle of a city and it was never heard from again.
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Feb 4, 2017 20:50
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And thank God downing a helicopter in the middle of midtown couldn't possibly cause any serious property damage or have any collateral damage. No wandering pedestrians, no structural damage to buildings, no explosions or wreckage. Its probably a biodegradable helicopter. But really, I just laugh. I'm watching a comic book.
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Feb 4, 2017 21:18
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Rhyno posted:I like Dinah, I feel like she and Dig are gonna stand around being wowed by a lot of poo poo. Me too. She seems like she's being set up as the gel between the new team. She has the same kind of wide eyed awe of Diggle about the world they're in. Has a hard enough edge for Rene to be a little scared of her. Is "soft" and sympathetic enough to connect with Curtis and Rory if he comes back. And has already shown herself to be one of the few people who can stand up to Oliver and make him see reason. I dig her and am already warming up to the idea of her being Oliver's next romantic interest.
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Feb 10, 2017 22:20
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Yeah. Arrow clearly tried to do a thing where they brought Earth 2 Laurel in to kind of tease the idea of reforming her and helping Oliver find what he lost, but that would have been creepy and weird for him to try and turn his ex's evil twin into his good ex so he can bang her. So they use it to then segueway into Dinah who is a more natural mix of the two Laurels and fit for Oliver and the team but also happens to have this crazy fate twist of sharing Laurel's name and Earth 2 Laurel's power. Which of course plays a little forced to us because we know it isn't "fate" but rather actual writers. But once you get past that I think its working inside the show. Guy Goodbody posted:Yeah, it'd be lame as gently caress if that was the end of Ragman. Hopefully he just has to charge the rags with evil souls again or something He said he'd be back so I'm just gonna assume he will. I like him but he's kind of a weird fit into Team Arrow which is probably why he's spent more time out of the rags and moralizing than actually in the rags and crime fighting. So him walking away for awhile and then showing back up as a recurring secret weapon like Barry or Vixen or whoever feels like it would work. Then maybe he can find a spot on Legends or something where his powers fit better. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 23:40
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Plus, its probably just better management of characters. Like think back to all the Roy stuff and how people were annoyed by him always being there but never having anything to do. Arrow has a pretty big cast for a show that isn't really an ensemble piece so its probably better to have a narrative reason to write out characters like Rory, Thea, Quentin, and Dig and have them just disappear for a block of episodes rather than to have them on the sidelines for no reason and end up coming off like neglected or inconsequential pieces.
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Feb 11, 2017 01:36
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I think that's the thing. I could actually buy Oliver not screwing up with Dinah. Maybe that's just subliminal because I know she's Black Canary proper but she's got way more in common with Oliver than any of his past girlfriends. Like, most of Oliver's exes have either encouraged Oliver's moral side but was hurt by his darker side (Felicity, Laurel) or connected with his darker side but bristled with his moral/normal side (Sara, Huntress). Dinah's somewhere in the middle.
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Feb 11, 2017 04:24
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Ragman COULD theoretically make the rest of the team obsolete but the show's clearly gone out of its way to sideline him and stay mum about his power limitations, presumably specifically to avoid him outclassing the rest of the team. Its kind of the same way Legends always seems to send Jax and Stein off on separate missions so that Firestorm is never available to resolve the problem quickly.
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Feb 13, 2017 23:29
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I think he turned a bomb into water once. Although I feel like I've never once seen or read a Firestorm story that didn't effectively treat him like the Human Torch instead of some dude who does crazy science poo poo I don't truly understand and clearly the writers don't either. But like, even the Human Torch would resolve most of their small, mid episode issues. Which is why they always have to separate Jax and Stein and come up with an excuse to turn Ray's suit off. Otherwise there'd never be a reason for Mick and Sara to punch people.
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Feb 14, 2017 01:34
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howe_sam posted:Arrow is totally the wrong show to take on gun violence in any serious sort of way, but like I said before, I admire the chutzpah. Guy Goodbody posted:Why do they spend so much time training with sticks, when they so rarely fight with sticks? As to why they do it before it just seems like kind of a cliche tv training thing and I've always accepted it as "weapons we can train with because they won't do any major damage".
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Feb 16, 2017 06:14
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I mean, I guess you could reason that the social worker didn't have to be in Star City, and I'm not sure we even actually saw any indication that Rene and his family were living in Star City? It would sort of make more sense if the "Wild Dogs" was a team from some other city or else a ton of Star City residents would be wearing Rene's uniform. Maybe he just moved to Star City after everything that happened? But its still kind of weird that they were talking in the middle of the night, especially since a crazy night. Maybe Rene was just harassing the social worker. Maybe Rene's from Havenrock and that's why the phone cut off.
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Feb 17, 2017 00:41
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I feel like people thinking this was some actual political statement one way or another are just kind of biting on their own biases since the episode was pretty careful to not say anything meaningful in either direction and then end with both sides making some mysterious compromise to victory. No actual ideology was expressed or could be satisfied by this episode. It was just a broad appeal to "do something" that ended with the episode's sympathetic character deputy mayor's assistant writing law instead of getting arrested for shooting off an illegal gun in the Mayor's office. But it does kind of speak to how ballsy/misguided they were to do the episode at all since they were always going to upset someone. But they clearly knew that and voiced it through Felicity and then rejected it through Curtis and the rest who argued for the need to argue. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Feb 17, 2017 |
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Feb 17, 2017 01:10
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howe_sam posted:The game Rene and his daughter go to is in The Glades, so at the very least they are Star City adjacent. Ah, you're right. When he was yelling at his wife he mentioned getting out of the Glades. So I guess Rene is running around with some local team's uniform on his chest. That probably makes for some really angry PR people.
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Feb 17, 2017 01:17
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Dark and true. But the ownership still probably lived outside the Glades so I look forward to the episode where Rene gets sued for copyright infringement.
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Feb 17, 2017 01:21
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I mean, I think Rene's theory is that if he had been carrying his gun like he wanted to before his wife objected then he would have been able to take down the guy quicker rather than having to retrieve the gun. That theory is... complicated. And I think the episode more or less showed that with the way things played out. But that's mostly the point and Rene's obviously grieving and was a good representation of people who are genuinely driven by their desire to protect their loved ones (and as a foil to the gunman in that Rene kind of broke like him too but decided to take out his anger on bad guys). I still get why they did it. It fits with Arrow, its themes, and characters. It would arguably be irresponsible to not approach the subject given that they deal both with politics and armed vigilantes. It was good character work for Oliver to show him being Mayor and recognizing that the Arrow can't solve everything and good character work to flesh out Rene and help show some of his motivations. They just could never get anywhere with it farther than they did without upsetting people.
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Feb 17, 2017 03:38
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Yeah, they kind of blew their "political capital" on the whole "talk down a serial shooter" thing. Hell, just the story of him surviving the first shooting and cradling the DA in his arms as he bled out would probably have been good for a Congressional run.
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Feb 17, 2017 04:06
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Somewhat Heroic posted:The district attorney still turns out to be totally They did a really interesting there this episode where they had Vigilante show up while Adrian was injured which seemed to suggest its not him. But then again he was really far away and didn't really do anything besides shoot a gun and fall away. So now I have reasonable doubt but am unsure. Good job, Arrow. Hollismason posted:I actually think this is one of the best episodes they've done. The Green Arrow comic was always really progressive so it's good to see them addressing these issues. The very first run of the Green Arrow long series was about gay bashing. It's what makes Green Arrow different than Batman is his politics. He's basically a grumpy super liberal. It would be funny if they moved Oliver in more of a direction like his comic character, where he's a super liberal and really opinionated about politics. Like the comics made years out of him going back and forth with conservative heroes like Hal Jordan or Hawkman and his comics tackled stuff like Speedy I/Roy being a drug addict and Speedy 2/Mia having HIV. A lot of people drawn in by the vigilante killer would probably have hilarious reactions if his current crisis of conscience took him super liberal.
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Feb 17, 2017 07:25
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and while I thing the writers formed an elaborate rouse to get me to think he was Vigilante then Prometheus and now Vigilante again and Prometheus turns out to be a woman and not a man.
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I genuinely like that Curtis has proven utterly bad at fighting since it basically establishes that Oliver can't turn everyone into a world class fighter with a couple of weeks of boot camp. Watching him get his rear end kicked by Cupid and Liza made me smile. Like, I really like that path they've taken with his character where he's gradually coming to accept that he's more useful as an engineer and hacker than a fighter. I'm still assuming that by finale time we'll see some working T-Spheres to finish off the development. I also like the slight tweaks to his costume, even though the T still looks silly.
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Feb 25, 2017 01:17
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I think they've kept Prometheus a LITTLE too mysterious and distant. It feels late into the season and he doesn't feel like he's really a character so much as an idea. I feel like they did the same thing with Darkh and it was fine, but Prometheus just feels a little off. Plus they've put off his identity reveal for so long that a lot of people are going to be seriously disappointed if he just turns out to be that guy's kid and not some surprise twist.
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Mar 1, 2017 07:04
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Count me in with people who enjoyed the Prometheus twist. Here I had just got done saying that the reveal was going to be a disappointment because they had strung it out too long and not made Prometheus a visible enough character. So there they go swerving that by making a genuinely surprising reveal that also retroactively makes Prometheus a constant character all season. Kudos, Arrow. Well played. I also am half expecting the season to end with Oliver admitting he's Green Arrow. It does open potential problems about him being charged with his crimes but we've seen that the cops and city seemed to have been ok turning a blind eye to that and I guess they could handwave away the S1 murders as the work of Roy/The Hood. After all they made it kind of clear that was the common belief when the recruits were surprised to learn the truth. twistedmentat posted:I'm behind by an episode, but were we supposed to feel sorry for Reporter Lady being framed for stealing other peoples work to protect Oliver? The show presented her as if she was using their relationship to get conformation of him being the Green Arrow. The show was teasing the idea that she'd betray Oliver or was playing him but she never actually did anything to that affect and when she became convinced he was Green Arrow she privately asked him instead of running the story and exposing him. She was a red herring and the big swerve was that Thea ended up doing the unethical thing and hurting her when she was unquestionably an innocent. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 18:35
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