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To start things off I will state I am an exmormon. So a little about myself, I was born into the Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and when I was 19 I served a mission in North America. When I got home I got married in the temple had kids and did the usual stuff. I had 30 years in the church where I served in local leadership capacities. These included being a youth leader, sunday school teacher/president and when I left I was on the Bishopric of my ward (local congregation). I participated in all the temple ceremonies. If anyone has any questions on church history, mormon culture, missionary life, temple stuff I will be happy to answer.
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Sep 1, 2016 15:22
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grumplestiltzkin posted:The first, and to me most obvious, question is why are you an ex-mormon now instead of being a mormon? Brainwashing in the church is real, you don't recognise it as such but its there all the same. You are effectively programmed from birth, you know what you are going to do in your life because its effectively all planned out for you. My brain started twitching in my teens, I used to do early morning seminary (scripture study from 6:30-7:30 each weekday from 14-18 years old) and I remember being taught about the hill Cumorah which is where Joseph got the Golden plates. Cumorah was also host to a massive battle, hundreds of thousands were supposed to have died there and since its just a small bumfuck hill I thought, "why doesn't the church just do an excavation". This is where mormon apologetics and distraction comes into play, I heard "the church wont do it because they want people to have faith in the church and not have solid proof!". Questions like this kept stacking up but I had to put it on an internal bookshelf because I ultimately had a belief in God and I thought the church was a force for good in the world. In my late twenties I had serious doubts but I still played the game, my family and friends are all active LDS. My entire social structure and life was based around the church so I kept plodding on. I seriously started investigated the church in my early thirties and it felt like a huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders when I finally realised 100% it was all bullshit. Its embarrassing to think I stayed in the church for so long but there it is. Racism I always had problems with, I didnt agree with the treatment of black people before 1978 and it was one of the major shelf sitters throughout my life. I was taught that black people had been slackers in the war in heaven before we came to Earth, so they were cursed with the color of their skin as a punishment and hence the ban. Surprisingly the church does not teach that Joseph was a sexual predator and a con man. Brother Joseph had a few faults but he was one of the most righteous men to have ever lived, etc etc. Throughout my life in the church I was told to stay away from anything that wasn't published by the church. I think I have seen some listings on ebay for garments. They arent particularly comfy (sleeping without them on for the first time was bliss) and despite mormon folklore, they wont stop bullets and protect you from fire.
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Sep 1, 2016 16:00
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Cowslips Warren posted:When you left the church, what did your family think? Where did you go on your mission? What does the LDS church think of the play The Book of Mormon overall? They wont talk to me about it and wont acknowledge any of my issues and concerns. Right now we are in a mexican standoff where we pretend everything is fine and normal. I am intentionally being vague about where I live, where I served my mission and when. These motherfuckers are very real https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strengthening_Church_Members_Committee I may sound  but I don't want anything to be forwarded to my family (I personally know someone this happened too)."What does the LDS church think of the play The Book of Mormon overall?" Publicly the church is "Oh this play makes a little fun of mormons, we are so good natured and accepting that we dont have any problems with it at all!!!!". Behind closed doors they loving hate it. Triggered fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Sep 1, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 16:07
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Gabriel Pope posted:Have you seen it yourself? If so, how accurate do you think the stereotypes are--are there any bits that they exaggerated past the point of believability (or, conversely, any craziness that they were really restrained about)? No I have never seen it, I really want to go but its about time at the moment. Missionary life is a mixed bag, there are some missions and mission presidents that are fairly chill. Some missions like mine like to practice something called "Exact Obedience", this involves following every single rule to the letter. Missionaries around my age had this https://www.lds.org/bc/content/ldsorg/topics/missionary/MissionaryHandbook2006Navigate.pdf On top of that you had another binder full of rules just for your mission, I had to memorise that entire pdf. To be honest I enjoyed my mission, I think it was beneficial in my life, thankfully the people who I baptised all left soon after I came home. There are some missionaries who are a bit more relaxed about things, I unfortunately must have been a major pain in the rear end for my companions. I wanted to do everything right and be all upbeat and enthusiastic. The church is full of insanity, if you want specific examples of craziness you have heard about I will no doubt be able to provide examples.
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Sep 1, 2016 16:21
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faarcyde posted:Do you think Mormons who aren't a part of the church hierarchy are generally honest / altruistic people or has the church perverted them in such a way they aren't very well adjusted? I remember reading in a Howard Hughes biography describing how he surrounded himself with only Mormons because he knew they could be trusted. Would be interesting to know if that is true or just a stereotype (albeit a positive one). Hmmm tough one this, yes I would say they are generally good people. Apart from being super nice to new people (so they can get converted), I dont think there is anything perverted or particularly sinister about your average mormon. Outside the church you may see them as being a bit naive and backward but the church creates its own sub culture separate from normal society. Someone you may see as a bit odd may be super cool and popular in church circles. Active members of the church are taught to keep their mouths shut, the temple ceremony is a big part of this. You arent allowed to talk about temple stuff outside the temple and I have seen this pretty much adhered too throughout my life (apart from exmos). Members are taught to be honest, if I ran a business I would have no problems employing one. Its the senior church leadership I get angry about.
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Sep 1, 2016 17:20
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BattyKiara posted:There are two very young Mormon missionaries who moved into my neighbourhood. Well, I think they are Mormons. They seem absolutely miserable so I feel kind of sorry for them. Would it be a bad idea to invite them over for tea some night to cheer them up? AFTER telling them I have absolutely NO interested in joining their church at all, I am perfectly happy in my religion. Depends on the missionaries, some will be happy to come over if they know you arent interested, others may see you as a waste of time.
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Sep 1, 2016 20:08
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Thanks dude, glad you have found a peaceful way out of the church.
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Sep 1, 2016 20:31
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Thanqol posted:I dated a Mormon girl for a while, and she was great in every respect except for her fanatic mormon-ness (which wound up the cause for our breakup, which I still regret), so I gave the religion a fair shot. But holy poo poo the Mormon bible was loving horrifying. Check out this poo poo from Nephi 1-4. Your Nephi story is close but isnt quite right. Nephis dad Lehi has a vision that Jerusalem will be destroyed, he tells his family to pack up and leave. They all escape but gosh darn it they forgot the brass plates that has the old testament on it!!!!!! Lehi tells Nephi to get the plates from wicked nasty Laban (who is Nephis cousin if I remember correctly). Laban tells Nephis brothers to piss off so Nephi goes back that night and luckily finds Laban drunk on the floor. A voice in Nephis head tells him to hack off Labans head and go get the plates. After the no doubt bloody decapitation Nephi takes his clothes and tricks Labans servant to get the plates. Nephi is one of the biggest Mormon heroes.................................................... Lutha Mahtin posted:im confused how someone can give a religion "a fair shot" without actually talking to its practitioners about questions they have. then again the posts in this thread so far have me thinking we could be going down in flames pretty quickly here Community of Christ are chill now, they were formally known as the Reorganised Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The best thing about the reorgs was this little doozy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Lot_Case Whats so good about it was that the reorgs were like "nu uh, Joseph Smith did not practice polygamy!", then Brigham Young came along and said "lol heres written testimonies of some of his wives stating that he screwed them!". This was a dream for exmos, the church constantly tries to project that Joseph was just married to Emma, then Brigham comes along and just puts a stick of dynamite in the whole thing. I have no doubt if the modern leadership of the church had a time machine that they could only use one time, they would go back and kill Brigham Young. Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints (FLDS) are the ones you see in the news when they have had their compounds smashed into by government agencies. They got pissed when the mainstream branch stopped polygamy in 1890 (although they were still doing it in secret into the 1900's) and made their own sect. These are the really really crazy mormons. Pellisworth posted:Do Mormons consider themselves to be Christians, or how in general do they perceive the broader Christian community? Yes they consider themselves to be Christian, they believe that the only way to exaltation is through Jesus Christ. Born agains of course dispute this (I still cant stand them either), but just like mormons they make poo poo up as they go along. To mormons other Christian sects have a portion of the truth but the LDS church is the only true church on the Earth. Its the only one with the correct authority to perform ordinances such as baptism and giving the gift of the Holy Ghost. One thing I like about mormonism is that its afterlife is fairly forgiving. Everyone who has not had an opportunity to learn about mormonism will get the chance to learn about it when they die. If they accept it and lived a good life they can get to the top heaven. Thats why temples are important to mormons. They are performing ordinances such as baptism for people who have died. They believe everyone willl need it so thats what they do for them. There is no traditional fire and brimstone hell in the mormon afterlife. Pretty much every single person who has lived will gain some manner of reward, the shittiest kingdom in heaven where the rapists and murderers will go is still far better than anything you can get here on Earth. There is a place you would consider hell that is reserved for those who rebelled against God in the pre Earth life. This is called outer darkness. You can get there if you have lived on Earth, but you need to have seen God and Angels and stuff and then denied it all and rebelled.
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Sep 2, 2016 22:45
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Pixelante posted:What are the craziest or most destructive practices, in your opinion? What are the best? poo poo sorry I wrote a long rear end reply to you and it disappeared when I submitted the reply, I will come back to you. Lutha Mahtin posted:how do infertile women get into the good heaven. does it make any difference whether the infertile one is the woman vs. her husband. are there distinctions between different reproductive problems, such as a couple who can't conceive vs. a woman who keeps having miscarriages. what happens if a childless woman is presented with the choice by her doctor of "you are going to die unless we perform surgery on you, but the surgery will make it so you can't have kids". Anyone who has problems with their bodies will receive a perfect one in the eternities. No distinction is made between a woman and man when it comes to infertility. She will get the surgery, she will no doubt be made to feel like an inferior woman for the rest of her life. For mormons, a womans only role is to have kids. Thats the end game and the most important thing they are taught to do.
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Sep 2, 2016 22:48
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n8r posted:How are your wife/kids handling leaving the church? Wife resisted at first but eventually wanted to leave as well. Kids were too young to care so I got off pretty lucky. Its still difficult though, all my kids cousins are active LDS. I was almost tempted into getting them baptised so they could at least have that same right of passage with them but
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Sep 2, 2016 23:07
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Khizan posted:Are you in the Utah area at all? I've got a friend who lives somewhere in Utah and he's stuck in a "I want to leave the church but if I do then my small business will die because literally everybody here is Mormon and they will stop hiring me" trap. Have you had to deal with anything like that? No I thank my lucky stars I was not born in Utah. I spent time there but I didnt settle. The church is entirely reliant on social pressure to keep members in check. When the majority of the boomers die off I think you will see a massive drop in participation from members. I was going to wait for my parents to die before leaving the church but it got to the point where I couldnt take it anymore. I have not been in the job situation like that but I have heard too many similar stories. Your boss is Mormon and if you are unlucky enough he might be your ecclesiastical leader as well. Mormonism is members whole identity, their life is built around it, their entire social structure is based on it. When you say you dont agree with Mormonism anymore members take that as an attack on them personally. If you reject the doctrines of the church you reject them because thats who they are. This obviously creates conflict, people end up feeling trapped and decide to go with the flow because its the path of least resistance. This is why I think the church is a cult, not a kool aid drinking one but a cult all the same. The church continually builds up an "us versus them" conflict in relation to non members which is toxic.
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Sep 3, 2016 08:44
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Josef K. Sourdust posted:What is the grassroots feeling in the LDS about polygamy? Basically it was a central principle within the first decade or so and only abandoned when Utah wanted to be recognised as a state. I know splinter churches practice polygamy openly or secretly. Is there a feeling by average Mormons that polygamy is a) morally wrong, b) morally right but technically illegal or c) really to be aspired to in emulation of the church founders? Like I have mentioned previously (or that might have been when I replied to someone and it didnt come up) polygamy is alive and well in the mainstream church. Although its Earthly practiced at least, the mainstream LDS sect still believes in eternal polygamy. A man can still be sealed to more than one woman in the temple if he has been widowed or had a divorce. When you get a civil divorce that does not cancel your temple sealing. That can only be authorised by the first presidency of the church. Its a mixture of A and B now, although I am sure if you asked the women in the church A would be picked by a large margin. Pellisworth posted:Many Christians have similar beliefs about salvation and the afterlife, myself included, see C.S. Lewis in The Great Divorce. "Hell" is the absence of God's presence and Heaven is to be fully in God's presence, the dead (even if never having heard the Gospel) can come to accept God's grace and become closer to Him. No the church rejects the Nicene creed. Mormons believe the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three seperate personages. God has a perfected body of flesh and bone and Jesus received his perfect physical body after his resurrection. Mormons believe a little while after Jesus Christ was killed the church he setup fell into apostasy. All priesthood authority was lost off the Earth, Catholic baptism and whatever authority protestants claim is worthless. The priesthood (authority to act in the name of God) was given to Joseph Smith by Peter, James and John. Christs only true church was restored by Joseph in 1830. The Sunday service is standard across all congregations around the world. You can have a lesson on a Sunday in Utah and you can have the follow up lesson in Thailand the following week. This can be altered by the Bishop of the congregation but the full Sunday service is a 3 hour block. What you would consider communion would be the first hour. You sit in the Chapel and have an opening hymn and then prayer. Announcements and business is conducted by one of the bishopric. The top leadership in the congregation is held by three men called the Bishopric (technically there are more but its not too important), this comprises of a Bishop and his two councilors. There is no paid leadership positions in the church until you get to a very very senior level. Anyway business is done and then the sacrament is blessed and handed out by the young men in the ward (12-17). This consists of bread and water that represents the body and blood of Christ. Note this isn't transubstantiation. After that members of the congregation will give assigned talks (speeches) to the congregation. When that is done its closing hymn and prayer. Second hour is Sunday school, it runs on a 4 year cycle, Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon and Church History. There is an adult and youth Sunday school. <12 will go to the primary organization where they are further split down according to age. Third hour the sexes seperate. Adult men go into Priesthood which is further split into Elders and High Priests. 12-17 will go to Young Mens. Women go to their part called Relief Society, 12-17 girls go to Young Womens. A lesson is taught in this hour.
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Sep 3, 2016 21:32
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Pixelante posted:What are the craziest or most destructive practices, in your opinion? What are the best? Ok back to this. I will start with the good first. The church does a good job of looking after their own, you genuinely feel part of one big family. You should note its easy to fall out of this family however. The church encourages its members to develop their talents and show them, it also gives kids a good start in speaking in front of others. This is an easily overlooked positive but it can get you remarkably far in life. I consider myself a shy person but that was beaten out of me through growing up in the church. A mission takes it to the next level, you are constantly forcing yourself to speak to new people and having to think on your feet. Now I could get up and give a presentation to 500 people and not break a sweat. This is probably the only thing that makes me want to have my kids to through church. Bad things: I have mentioned it before but like the piece of turd that wont flush, polygamy is still intertwined in the churches beliefs. I think its a disgusting practice when used in a religious setting. The rampant sexism in the church, women are little more than baby makers, there is no position for women in the church that is not overseen by a man. In the home the man is the final authority. In the temple man makes his covenants with God that he will follow the commandments. Women covenant with God that they will follow their husband. In the good old days women didnt even covenant with God, they would make the promise directly to the husband. Chastity, girls have been told its better to fight to the death than lose their "virtue". Prosperity gospel, the richer you are the more righteous you are. This is not officially taught in the church but its ingrained into the culture.
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Sep 3, 2016 21:52
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Domus posted:Then how did Mormonism get so big? It's hard to grow your cult if you're pushing out 40 percent of the population. Polygamy stopped for the mainstream LDS in the early 1900's, Mormons have been very against birth control up until the 1990's. There is your answer.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:32
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Pixelante posted:From what I've read about polygamous cults in British Columbia, it's standard for a lot of the boys to be pushed out as teenagers, while the girls are taught to be frightened of the outside world. The actual polygamous cults only have membership in the hundreds, I think the FLDS have membership in the thousands. Yeah the boys are usually pushed out of the community when they are reaching adulthood. I have not done any decent research into it though.
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Sep 4, 2016 13:38
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peanut posted:Hey op I see what u did with that avatar. Im back at work now so my Internet access time is limited, I will write something up regarding the bullshit of patriarchal blessings soon though. From having to originally pay for them to some of the more batshit crazy ones that have been given.
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Sep 6, 2016 06:20
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jumba posted:Why do Mormons like basketball so much? The boy scout troop I (not a Mormon) was in as a youth was sponsored by a Mormon church and they had a bad-rear end full length basketball court built into the church. And Clint Howard was in some Mormon-sponsored basketball flick. Pretty much every building the church has actually built has a full court or half court. Even in Europe where people dont give a poo poo about basketball there will still be one built. The hall is also used for other functions (wedding receptions etc).
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Sep 7, 2016 06:43
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Lutha Mahtin posted:I've read recently that basketball is one of the world's fastest-growing sports, and/or is now the world's second favorite sport. Mormonism is also one of the world's fastest-growing religions. Coincidence??? Maybe it is but its got a long way to go to get to soccer and cricket levels. Mormonism is lagging behind jehovahs witnesses and seventh day adventists at the moment and all of those are lagging behind Islam. Now even though im no longer mormon you wont find me defending other Christian faiths against them. As far as I am concerned the whole "mormons arent really Christians" is a mix of "no homers club" and  Mormons consider themselves Christian, they say they follow the teachings of Christ so thats good enough for me. They are desperate for inclusion in mainstream Christianity because they wanted to be popular, in the early days they didnt really give a gently caress. Those 2 billion people consider the other 5 to have illegitimate beliefs and I find it to be a really strange argument. Mormons at least have a clear line drawn, they know exactly where their church stands in regards to other faiths.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:19
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face. It also makes me confused about why Mormons promote the "we are Christians" thing. Is it an attempt at saming* themselves with more established and "respectable" denominations? Is it a genuine expression of their doctrinal exclusivism? How genuinely self-aware are Mormons of the origins of their religion, and the fact that part of their claim to legitimacy lies in their claim that the religion of over two billion people is illegitimate?
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Paramemetic posted:Mormons believe they are Christian because they believe in Christ as their savior and redeemer, and they believe in baptism by immersion by way of making that covenant. They believe that their church is a second dispensation, and that Apostolic succession enjoyed by the Catholic and Orthodox churches is delinquent from shortly after Paul. They believe the Bible is definitely Scripture, but it's not as important as the Book of Mormon, which was held in reserve specifically for this dispensation and the restored church. The Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants are really esteemed highly, and Pearl of Great Price is considered super important but generally not discussed because it holds a lot of the "deeper doctrines" like the existence of the Holy Mother, the ultimate path to personal apotheosis, and so on. This is a good explanation, it pains me at the moment I dont have a computer to write things up properly. Going further on from the afterlife part, anyone who has not had a chance to hear the Gospel gets the chance to be taught and depending on how they lived their life can receive celestial glory. So your Catholics and Jews if they have lived good lives will get the temple work done and get to chill with the big guy. Terrestrial is reserved for good but not quite good enough and telestial is for your rapists and murderers etc. Mormonism suffers from the same theological faults as all religions do but they have a few unique ones such as temple sealings, when you think about it it does not make a lick of sense. Like you said there are also the physical problems such as physical evidence of the Nephites, Josephs whacky claims among many many others. Ephraim is the catch all tribe for the "gentiles", so yeah almost everyone in the church will be stuck in the Ephraim tribe in their patriarchal blessings. Why the church decided to include this in your blessing is completely beyond me and like many things in the church does not make any sense.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:38
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:How common is it for (otherwise orthodox) mormons to not buy the obviously false history stuff? It's one of the more surprising aspects of mormonism from an outside perspective. For starters the church does not teach about it and tells members to stay away from anything that isnt published by the church. Members are conditioned from birth to follow and obey, you are taught defence mechanisms early on as well. Start to feel like your are being duped by the church? Stay away from it and sing a hymn! Other methods of avoiding any probing questions in the church is "im not feeling the spirit any more" and the ultimate get out of jail free card is "thats not pertinent to my salvation". The church sinks its claws into you, it wants your money and time and has all sorts of dirty mind tricks to do it. The most effective being the thought of losing your eternal family by asking questions and leaving the church.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:42
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Soylent Yellow posted:When I went to university, I spent a year sharing a house with a mormon student. There was a small yet relatively active local mormon community, and one of their roles seemed to be keeping an eye on the mormon students, and making sure they didn't stray. They rotated weekly meetings around several houses including mine, so I got a fairly good look at the local community. Most were actually pleasant, but one man in his 30s was a complete creep around the younger women, especially the students. I found out that he was asking the local bishop to pressurise one girl (around 19, and the only black mormon I met) into marriage with him. Is this kind of thing (older men creeping on younger women and arranged marriages) common, or relatively isolated in mainstream mormonism? I havnt found situations of arranged marriages in the church, it is heavily taught that you marry in the church though (and girls should get married to return missionaries). In the states you will have entire congregations composed of YSA's (young single adults) which is basically set up to get them married. This brings me onto another part of Mormon culture. As mentioned before girls are taught to get married to return missionaries. Too many girls would not even think to date a guy unless he was an RM. This of course puts huge pressure on young guys to go on missions. Missions are not about converting people this is a mistake many inside and outside the church make. Missions are about the retention of the missionary themselves. Conversion rates are abysmal in many missions around the world and retention of those new members is around 15%. Missions are there to further indoctrinate the missionary into the church because the real strength of the church comes from multi generational families. Thats why the church recently lowered the missionary age from 19 to 18. Too many young people were being lost so the church has desperately tried to retain them. A lot of missionaries have a year of college and independence before they leave for missions, the church did not like that one little bit. Mormons who say they believe but dont follow the commandments are called "jack" mormons. They are even more annoying than active faithful members. Jack Mormons will swear the church is the truest church that has ever trued but they dont follow any of the hard stuff.
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Sep 9, 2016 12:51
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BattyKiara posted:Update: Missionaries not interested in food since it would be a sin to visit a single woman even if she is literally old enough to be their mum. This is to protect the missionaries. You cannot see any single woman no matter what age she is by yourselves. If you bring someone else with you it would be all kosher but a single missionary companionship wouldnt do it.
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Sep 10, 2016 16:16
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Yes you will need at least three people to see a single woman. The ideal sitltuation would be to go with a member to teach. Same rules applies to the girls as well, they could not see a single male during a visit.
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Sep 10, 2016 19:18
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CatchrNdRy posted:Does it seem a higher than normal percentage of Mormons are involved into Pyramid scams (err Multi-level marketing)? These aren't your run-of-the-mill kinda trashy moms pitching "It Works". These Mormons pushing "business opportunities" are usually already well off, upper middle class professional men and women (or wives of such). I wrote something about this in the GBS Utah thread: Okay there are many things that add up to why so many Mormons fall for MLM's, here are the big hitters. 1. Mormons are kept in a child like state for all of their lives. Everything is planned for them from birth. At birth you will get a childs blessing, at 8 you will be baptised, boys will receive the priesthood at 12 and get upgrades at 14 and 16. They will get their patriarchal blessing wt 16-18, they will become Elders at 18, they will go on a mission 18-19. They will get married in their early twenties and start having kids. The rest of their lives are devoted to the church. When you retire you will pay to go on a mission with your wife. If you have a skill the church needs you might pay to work on the churches for profit businesses. All of this means you dont have to think a lot, you constantly submit to a higher church authority and get told what to do. 2. Mormons believe obedience is the most important principle in the Gospel. In the temple you promise to literally give everything to the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. They are told they will be blessed if they follow something they know is wrong as long as a higher church authority tells them to do it. This is a huge mind gently caress whichever way you look at it. 3. Women are told to stay in the home and have kids when they are married. Even though we are living in a dual income world, poor old husband has to get a job that can support a mcmansion, 12 kids and a fleet of cars. This is obviously not a realistic scenario so women think they are going to strike it rich with essential oils or whatever stupid poo poo is popular at the time. 4. The church is a prosperity based religion, the richer you are the more righteous you are because God has blessed you. All of this creates a perfect storm for scamming. A rich Mormon comes along who holds a prominent church calling in the area and says he has a wonderful investment opportunity. He already has a local network he can hit up. All of the Mormons in the area go "well brother so and so is rich and is successful in the church, he cant be lying!". Pensions get withdrawn and lost, others lose their house and declare bankruptcy. Rich Mormon gets richer and adds another wing to his mansion. This gets repeated over and over again. Mormons are desperate to get rich so they can be seen as being righteous so they fall for the same investment scams and MLM poo poo over and over again.
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Sep 11, 2016 11:49
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peanut posted:Hey op I see what u did with that avatar. Okay Patriarchal blessing time. Right for non members a patriarchal blessing is something given by a "Patriarch", this is usually a very old man who lives in a set geographical location and the blessing is usually given around 16-18. The blessing is basically glorified fortune telling and I have unfortunately seen it wreck peoples lives. The blessing starts off by telling you which tribe of Israel you belong too, for more explanation mormons have a serious hard on for ancient Israel. Scriptures say that Jews and the rest of the tribes are Gods chosen people and Mormons want a slice of that action. When you become a member of the church you are adopted into a tribe. For most of the "gentiles" this will be Ephraim. I have heard of people being in Judah and Manasseh. Please note all of this is retarded and  You will then hear a blessing that tells you how you were before this life and whats in store for you in this life. Now according to my blessing I was a General during the war in heaven so all of you are pretty privileged being able to speaking to me. While I was kicking Lucifers rear end I guess you lot were basking in my glory. I was then told about how I would serve a mission, get married and have kids. I was told I would serve in the church for the rest of my life and get pretty high up the ladder of leadership. Also told me I would have a good job and be able to earn lots of $$$. How does this gently caress up your life you may ask? One of my male relatives said in his blessing that it hinted he probably wont get married. So thats that then, does not even try and date and will die alone. I know someone whos blessing said they would go into a business career, thats that then, does not want to follow their creative outlets and is stuck in middle management. I dont have any written proof of this but apparently patriarchs were told to stop telling people they would be alive during the second coming of Christ. It was being recorded in too many blessings and people kept uhmmm.... dying before it happened. Okay onto some history now. Joseph Smith Snr was the first patriarch in the church. He did them for $1 per blessing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchal_blessing There have been some truly batshit crazy blessings given. My favorite is Lorenzo Snows blessing, this is also copied from the GBS Utah thread: As for teleportation, did you think Neal Armstrong was the first man on the moon ()? Wrong! It was actually this guy:  Lorenzo Snow Now I spoke about Patriarchal blessings before, this is glorified fortune telling and you used to have to pay for it. Well Lorenzo Snows blessing said some crazy poo poo: This is the LDS faith promoting version: “God has looked upon thee from all eternity and has been bountiful in gifts; he has given thee intelligence, talent and great faculties of mind that thou mightest be useful in his cause. Thou hast a great work to perform. God has called thee to the ministry; thou must preach the gospel to the inhabitants of the earth. Thou shalt become a mighty man. Thou shalt have great faith … thou shalt have power … to rend the veil and see Jesus Christ at the right hand of the Father. … there shall not be a mightier man on earth than thou. …” (Improvement Era 22:655, June 1919.) https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/05/...o-snow?lang=eng The church sure loves them ... when it comes to church history. This is what they left out of the full recorded blessing, turns out he was a necromancer as well as the highlander: "Thou shalt have power to translate thyself from one planet to another; and power to go to the moon if thou so desire; power to preach to the spirits in prison; power to rend the veil and see Jesus Christ at the right hand of the Father; power, like Enoch, to translate thyself to heaven,--there shall not be a Mightier man on earth than thou; thy faith shall increase and grow stronger, till it shall become like Peter's:--thy shadow shall restore the Sick; the diseased shall send to thee their aprons and handkershiefs and by thy touch their owners shall be made whole. Thou shall have power over unclean spirits; at thy command, the powers of darkness and devils shall flee away. If expedient the dead shall rise and come forth at thy bidding, even those who have long slept in the dust. Thou shalt have long life; live to the age of Moses yet not be old; age shall not come upon thee; the vigor of thy mind shall not be abated and the vigor of thy body shall be preserved. Thou shalt have power to stand in the flesh and see Jesus come in the clouds. No power shall be able to take thy life so long as thy life shall be useful to the children of men. Thou shalt preach the Gospel so long as there is an ear to hear or a heart to believe. Thou must open thy mouth and the Lord will fill it with arguments. Thy voice shall cause the earth to tremble. Thou must pray for thy kindred and be diligent and they shall all receive a celestial glory." http://lds-church-history.blogspot....5-december.html There is more but thats enough effort for now.
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Sep 11, 2016 12:08
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Paramemetic posted:I've heard recently the commands out of Provo are that missionaries aren't to do cold knocking anymore but rather do the thing where they sidle up and offer to help with yard work or groceries or what not to get their foot in the door, then they start their push. This is in the last 4 years or so I think. Were you before or after this push and can you tell us more? No, cold calling still happens. This is an incredibly ineffective way to get converts and the church knows this. My own personal experience is that I have probably knocked hundreds and hundreds of doors, I would be able to count all the times I got let in on two hands. The church tries various schemes to try and improve baptism rates, the most effective is member referrals. Missionaries have pretty much always looked to help people out, when I was on my mission I got 4 set hours a week where we used to help out at old folks homes, libraries, or anything we could get our hands on. The church would do themselves a world of good by switching the service hours for the proselyting hours. So many weeks wasted on door knocking when I could have been helping in the community. The church always has this urban legend about US government agencies going to the Missionary Training Centers and not being about to figure out how the missionaries do so well in languages (  members know its the gift of tongues given by the Lard ). The reality of it all is that if you stick a young person into an environment where they have to learn a new language they will do it.The CIA loves the church apparently, foreign language trained yes men is their wet dream.
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Sep 11, 2016 12:18
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peanut posted:Do you think soda and other extreme modern empty calories will ever get added to the Word of Wisdom? It bothers me that my parents chug juice and ice cream but won't touch simple green tea. The word of wisdom is just a case of mindless obedience now and Mormons still pick and choose bits they want to follow. They laugh at the "meat should be eaten sparingly" part for example. I pointed out many times that obese people should not be able to get temple recommends. Of course that would never ever happen as it would upset a large percentage of the North American membership. The coffee and tea thing came out because the upper leadership were pissed at Emma for getting tobacco banned so they went after her coffee club. Also hot soup used to be against the word of wisdom so ask your parents of they ever have that.
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Sep 11, 2016 13:37
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Pellisworth posted:Jehovah's Witnesses and Scientologists are arguably worse wrt indoctrination, and Scientology is actively evil where Mormonism and JWs just exert a lot of control over their members. The state of Utah is essentially a Mormon theocracy. My personal terrible mainstream religion ranking list would be: Islam Scientology Jehovahs Witnesses Mormonism Jehovahs Witnesses encourage shunning if you leave the faith, it still happens in Mormonism but at least they put up a front of telling members its not supposed to happen.
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Sep 11, 2016 19:06
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Cowslips Warren posted:So is Islam the worst then, or is this list top to bottom? Islam is the worst, reddit gives ex people a natural place to group up so the exmormon, exjw and exmuslim talk to each other. I have heard some bad stories from people trying to leave Mormonism and JW but the stuff coming from Muslim guys makes everyone else go  The church has doubled down on homosexuals since gay marriage has been legalised in the states. Since last November children who are living with a gay parent in a same sex marriage cannot be baptised in the church. They have to wait till they are 18, denounce their parents marriage and they need approval from the top 3 leaders in the whole church. Note the church did not give a poo poo when same sex marriage had been legalised in other countries, the church only cares about what happens in America.
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Sep 12, 2016 05:50
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Slaughterhouse-Ive posted:Are Mormons into Catholic-bashing? It seems like they'd have an inferiority complex about Christian sects that actually date back to antiquity Yes, the Catholic church was labelled as the great and abominable church in the first edition of the book Mormon Doctrine written by a guy who became a mormon apostle. He was forced to retract that in later editions but its still among mormons,PT6A posted:To be fair, of my friends who are Muslim, and of the vast majority of Muslims I've dealt with... most people don't actually leave the faith in terms of formally renouncing it, or converting to another religion, even if they stop being observant -- and many will just do whatever they want anyway (drinking alcohol, sex outside of a heterosexual marriage, etc.) according to their own conscience while still identifying as Muslim. So, my guess is that most people who actually identify as "ex-Muslim" are dealing with leaving the more extreme and toxic communities within the religion. While I have no doubt their experiences are absolutely horrific in many/most cases, I don't know it's representative of most Muslims who simply decide to quit following the rules, or were never particularly observant to begin with, especially those not living in countries governed by Islamic law. Hmmm even my moderate beer drinking and smoking muslim workmates still believed in Sharia. You will see mormons and JWs say they got shunned when they left the church, I have seen too many exmuslim people saying they are having to live the religion because they are scared of being killed. Out of all the lovely religions, Islam comes out on top (well apart from literal death cults but Islam has its fair share of them as well). To leave mormonism you need to formally resign. On the exmormon subreddit there is a lawyer who will submit your resignation for free because the church is infamous for its stalling tactics but will poo poo its pants as soon as anything actually legal heads its way. I still have my name on the books, I will resign as soon as my parents die. Langolas posted:You technically are in an inactive/non-observant state unless you are How do you still reconcile your faith with the history behind it all, are you going just for the culture or do you actively believe. Utah is generally mocked outside the state, especially when they turn up to a ward and think they are Gods gift because they have lived in Zion. On my mission we called them Utards because they did not understand living outside the bubble.
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Sep 13, 2016 08:36
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Vegetable posted:How do Mormons you know feel about Mitt Romney? Hes rich and white, mormons worship him.
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Sep 13, 2016 12:39
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Langolas posted:Religion is a very personal choice to me that my Dad encouraged I explore and figure out what I want to do for myself. I was inactive for a number of years while exploring other religions. The Universe is chaotic in some senses, but its too well organized in other ways for me to say there isn't some sort of "God" or Higher source of intelligence out there influencing things. I do see why there are atheists out there and agnostic folk though as they have some very valid points. Thats all well and good, but there are some obvious smoking guns that are impossible ignore for active members. The Book Of Abraham for one, as someone who looks into history how can you not come to the conclusion it was entirely made up? Also when you read some of the things Joseph did, how can you not come to the conclusion he was a sexual predator? We can go down the south park road where both sides have a point but this is being punched in the face kinda stuff, you cant really ignore it. I have no problems with people wanting to live their own lives and live their beliefs. I do have a problem with people of faith trying to push their own misguided beliefs on others. As we can see from Utah, mormons would heavily influence everyone else through the government if it had half the chance.
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Sep 13, 2016 18:39
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ZombieLenin posted:I don't understand. Are you closeted about being out of the church? If so, what are you afraid of (seriously)? Will your family (or some of your family) shun you if they find out you've left the church? I no longer go to church, I would just rather not have any of my comments online getting back to my family as it would land me in poo poo. If you are poor you are still expected to pay tithing, tithing first, food second. The church will help members out through the welfare program, its still destructive though. To be fair it was mainly brother Brigham who went with the sex with Mary thing. It isnt taught at all in the church. Bishops are just guys from the local congregation and I guarantee they dont know poo poo.
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Sep 13, 2016 21:14
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Tourette Meltdown posted:OP I hope you didn't already post this and I just missed it - you left the church, what do you consider yourself now, religiously? Christian? Atheist? Something else? I consider myself agnostic, I am 99.999999% sure there isnt a god but who knows it might just all be a cruel joke. Its quite rare to find exmos who turn to another faith, it happens but everyone I personally know who has left is atheist/agnostic. One thing I am finely attuned to now is smelling the undeniable bullshit that comes from the different faiths. Once bitten, twice shy and all that. With my kids I know they would be fine in the local congregation because I know everyone in there. They will get the chance to dig around if they want in the future but its a source of pride that they dont know how to pray.
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Sep 13, 2016 21:39
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GORDON posted:What did you guys think of Big Love? I think the church had a "WE DONT DO POLYGAMY ANYMORE!!!!!!!!" statement but that was about it. Wasnt an amazing popular show so no one really cared.
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Sep 14, 2016 15:37
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LDS splinter groups are a dime a dozen. My favorite are these idiots: http://www.latterdaymormon.co.uk English fella has decided to go down the Joseph Smith route. He has translated an ancient set of scripture recording the prophets words on the British Isles. I dont know if an angel with a flaming sword has commanded him to start having sex with 14 year olds yet but it cant be far away. As you can see from the pictures, the membership appear to be brain damaged.
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Sep 15, 2016 11:09
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HardDisk posted:Have you guys read Stolen Innocence by Elisa Wall? Is that what an average breaking up with the church process looks like? Not that I am one to defend the mainstream LDS church, but the FLDS are on another planet in comparison. The worst you will get out of mormonism is being shunned by your family, some people in the FLDS end up dead. LDS are at least encouraged to be part of the wider communities, FLDS live in their own secluded compounds.
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Sep 15, 2016 16:00
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Brennanite posted:"Breaking up" consists of just not showing up anymore. There's some paperwork you can fill out so you aren't considered a member anymore, but most people don't bother. Like I said earlier I dont know anyone personally who has left the church go to another religion. They are all atheists or agnostics. After I reasoned the church was a fraud I went straight down the "there is no God" route. No need to hop to other faiths on the way because I could easily see the gaps in logic that are needed to believe. The church does a good job of reinforcing its position as the "one true church". When that tumbled, religion in its entirety tumbled with it. I used to be scared of death but now I dont really. Obviously I dont want to die but I have come to accept its inevitably which is supposed to be reversed I think. In church you are supposed to do every little thing right or you are separated from your family for eternity!!!! That isnt there anymore. I will do a write up tomorrow on the priesthood (in Mormon terms) because there were a couple of guys above talking about apostolic succession.
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Sep 15, 2016 19:11
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Thanatosian posted:If I could just weigh in on the side of the JWs briefly... Yes politically and apart from the door to door visits they generally leave other people alone. I was coming from the angle of actually leaving the religion though, Mormonism does not have any shunning practice built into the religion.
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Sep 16, 2016 06:19
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stubblyhead posted:Where does genealogy fit into the whole thing? Okay so Mormons believe that everyone is given a chance to learn and accept Mormonism in the next life. They also believe that you need to have certain ordinances performed (an ordinance is something like baptism for example). Of course this can't be done by the individuals because they are dead. So Mormons do baptisms by proxy in the temples. This is mostly done by 12-17 year olds. Dead people will also have the full temple ceremony performed for them again by proxy as well as being sealed as a family. Mormons believe God is essentially holding their ancestors to ransom. They are kept in a spiritual waiting area until the all the earthly ordinances have been performed, then they get let out and enjoy paradise and wait for the resurrection. For some people it can generate an awful lot of guilt if they aren't finding their ancestors through genealogy so the ordinances can be performed and they get released out of the prison.
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Sep 16, 2016 20:47
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