|
FFG should really just cut out the middle-man and remove all factions other than Anarch and NBN.
|
#
¿
Nov 4, 2016 22:06
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 21, 2024 23:21 |
|
|
Score a 5/3 as setup: click 1: biotic labor click 2: install Gov’t Takeover clicks 3,4,5: Success your 5/3 to get 5 advancements, then use Jemison Astronautics’ ID ability to place 4 more advancements on it, score out  e: also the imgur link has been updated with more cards CodfishCartographer fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Nov 4, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Nov 4, 2016 22:38
|
|
|
But if you mill it, it may as well be at the bottom of their deck  I'm actually excited for the possibility of milling-out a runner. Stall out the runner then just win. A shitload of these cards work as anti-Faust tech too, it's great.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 5, 2016 00:37
|
|
|
TheParadigm posted:Deleted by the time i clicked. what was this? Literally everyone in the top 8 at worlds has anarch as their runner and nbn as their corp. whizz/val/maxx and ctm/sol/neh.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 5, 2016 05:28
|
|
|
berenzen posted:Welcome to the game! Like you said, the game is pretty complex, but it rewards tactical thinking and bluffing quite a bit. I know quite a few of us play on Jinteki.net. The biggest change from magic that the game has is the lack of a stack. Runner and corp don't trade actions back and forth and resolve them in reverse order. Instead the corp resolves all actions passes to the runner, then the runner resolves all actions and passes back to the corp, once both have closed, the window for actions closes. Note: this resolution order applies on the corp's turn. On the runner's turn, the runner gets to resolve actions first. Whoever's turn it is gets to resolve as many actions as they want, then it switches over to the other player. This continues until neither player takes an action.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 8, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
It's pretty funny in Gagarin at least.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 11, 2016 03:10
|
|
|
Zephro posted:Oh, and ID-specific data (all of these via Stimhack) Thanks a ton for posting this, it's super interesting. Cool to see at least one Adam made it to top 64. Surprised there were no Nulls, though.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 11, 2016 18:21
|
|
|
Wow Adjusted Matrix rules, as does Inversificator.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 7, 2016 22:15
|
|
|
Can any French goons confirm it is, in fact, reduce hand size by one and not to one? Also, what's the new meta that will evolve around this thing? Jinteki mind games? NBN Good Stuff? I would say tag n bag, but SIFR would only be used against super high strength (and thus cost) ice in that case, so good luck having enough Corp money. E: NetRunner: An Eternity Of SIFRing. CodfishCartographer fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jan 3, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2017 15:55
|
|
|
Zephro posted:I think it's probably worth waiting and seeing before selling your entire collection. There'll be a new MWL soon, and we haven't seen the Corp cards in the pack yet. Maybe hardware destruction will be a thing, or maybe there'll be ways to prevent ICE from being destroyed or something. The card may also look a little better once Liberated rotates out and Anarchs have slightly more money problems than they do right now. Maybe they’re going the Cube Draft route and just making everything OP, so thus nothing is! Throw in an operation that lets you rez a piece of ice for free, but forces you to trash the top 1-3 cards of R&D. Or an upgrade that lets you make a piece of ice protecting it unbreakable by trashing like 4-6 cards off R&D. Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:
I'm blind, what's the problem with this card? (also your image is broken)
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2017 17:30
|
|
|
Static Equilibrium posted:The thing with SIFR is that it would probably be fine (well, really strong, but not game-breaking) if Yog and Parasite didn't exist. Heck, if this is a prelude to banning Parasite, I'd be pretty happy overall. Don't forget mimic!
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2017 17:37
|
|
|
Isn’t there some site that can randomize a draft pack, or something similar? I could see someone using that / writing a script of their own to come up with some “boosters” of cards so that a sealed format could be used. Have whoever is running the league divvy out the lists to each participant to make sure they are following their personal lists. Maybe hold a vote beforehand to figure out what rarities some cards should be, to help give scarcity to better cards.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2017 21:39
|
|
|
Slio posted:Your mistake here is assuming that the playtester feedback on cards like this is taken into account rather than ignored. There's no way anyone who's played the game would look at this card and say "Yeah, this looks like a thing we should print." knowing that Parasite/Mimic/Yog exist. Disclaimer: I have not worked in the tabletop games industry, but have worked for almost ten years in the video game industry, with a lot of those years being involved with testing, both for bugs and gameplay stuff, and the rest being involved with game design. So I guess take what I’m saying with a grain of salt, but there is a little foundation here. I suspect that FFG has a really small playtesting team, probably around 5-10 people, if that. Most of those people are probably just casual Netrunner players, with maybe 1 or 2 of them having a hand in the competitive scene of Netrunner. The small team does their best to come up with as many different ways to break cards as they can, but poo poo slips through the cracks. They probably have 1 or 2 folks that are either on this team or work with this team to actually balance the cards, figuring out values and numbers and stuff. These one or two people probably have a pretty solid grasp on how to balance stuff, but we don’t know for sure - and their views likely skew the balance quite a bit. I suspect that the lead designers like Damon and Lukas don’t actually do that much balancing, and maybe not even a shitton of individual card designing. They’re probably much busier with the overall design of the overarching sets / cycles, and the main themes of cards and their mechanics. Another, lower-level designer probably comes up with the idea of “a console where you can lower ice strength once per turn by making yourself more vulnerable to meat/net damage” and then plays with different ideas of how to do that. I’m sure taking tags was an early idea, but no that’s too easy to avoid with NACH or something. Discarding cards could work, but then the player could just draw more after using it. How about lowering hand size? That’ll work great! They mark up some rough numbers to try it out with, then hand it over to the 1-2 people who balance, then THEY hand it off to playtesting. Maybe the 1-2 people who balance poo poo love parasite and yog and anarch and so subconsciously make cards supporting those stronger. Maybe this is the case for one of the lead playtesters, so they discourage their team from reporting issues with those factions, or ignore said reports. Maybe the lead playtesters report those kind of issues, but maybe there’s some pipeline inefficiencies and the problems take too long to get to, so there’s not time to fix them. All of this is pure speculation, but the history of the game kind of points to stuff like this being probable. Museum of History not being unique, there being tons of weird wording that doesn’t make sense, NBN and Anarch getting all the best cards, etc. I feel like people get this mental image of Damon handcrafting all the cards and numbers himself, but it’s likely a huge effort of many many different people, any one of whom could be the cause of the various balance issues that can be present. The playtesters for the cards are probably no more skilled / experienced than your average group that comes to netrunner tuesdays down at your local game shop.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2017 22:39
|
|
|
OrthoTrot posted:You could play a Glacier style Sandburg deck with Blue Sun and Stinson. Force runs on taxing servers to get the runner below 6 so you can use Stinson. If they trash him you can Friends in High Places him back at the right moment. Time will tell. He could be a bit finicky but he also might be good if you can find a way to summon him up at the right time so he doesn't need to be protected forever. The thing is, if you think about it in terms of how much money it’s saving you, SIFR can earn you a shitload of cash. At the very very least, if you’re using it on a piece of ice that’s only 1 strength too high, you’ve matched Desperado by earning 1 credit in the run. Obviously it depends on the icebreaker you’re using, but in some cases it means you’ve already saved 2 or more credits. You may need to discard a card, but you’ll probably take that into account and just keep 4 cards in hand anyways, so then you’re paying nothing. Desperado is expensive with a steep 3 inf, while SIFR is a whopping 1 influence, so it’s super easy to include. As for credit cost, SIFR does need a heavier credit investment at the start, but 2 extra credits isn’t much, and runners are richer than ever these days. Not only that, but you’ll probably make up that difference fast if you’re not shy about using it. Not only that, but it lets you use the credit(s) you earn DURING the run, rather than rewarding them afterwards. The only thing desperado really has on it is that Desperado rewards running on unprotected servers, whereas SIFR doesn’t. SIFR also protects you against a surprise piece of ICE you’re not ready for - didn’t expect that 1-of Assassin? Just SIFR it and suddenly it’s no problem for your mimic. And, of course, it lets you instagib any piece of ice stuff with clone chip + parasite, but that’s obvious. Basically, it looks like an absurdly powerful console that can fulfill many different roles, all of which are useful for almost every runner deck. Players have had difficulty correctly judging card strength in the past, but SIFR provides just so much utility and flexibility and usefulness. CodfishCartographer fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jan 6, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Jan 6, 2017 21:42
|
|
|
OrthoTrot posted:I think it's important to wait for the dust to settle a bit. There are loads of cards that seemed utterly broken when they were spoiled that just haven't had game breaking effects in the long run, like Will o the Wisp and Batty. If Account Siphon or Scorched Earth were spoiled now people would say they were broken as all hell. Some cards are more powerful than others and they are "balanced" only by the fact that they are expected and people use counter-play against them. I don't think this is a problem if it doesn't limit design space by flooding out everything else and becoming an auto include. I really doubt that will be the case with SIFR, but I could be wrong. The thing is, on paper SIFR limits design space drastically by making expensive / high-strength ice extremely risky. High strength ice will need to be priced expensively, because if the runner doesn’t have SIFR it’ll be difficult to break through. But if the runner DOES have SIFR, then no corp would rez the ice because it’d be dumping a ton of credits into something that will be no better than a Vanilla or Quandary or whatever.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 7, 2017 00:11
|
|
|
Ice is binary, but ideally that binary state changes throughout the game and that’s what makes (made) ice interesting. When you’re new to netrunner and playing with other newbies, ice serves the purpose of shifting the balance of power back and forth. The pacing of the games tend to go:
|
|
#
¿
Jan 19, 2017 17:28
|
|
|
Another console, another excuse to try and make Nasir work. Sifr + parasucker is going to rule on Nasir, especially with all the tutoring and recursion shaper has.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 20, 2017 03:53
|
|
|
How do you even score out a 4/2 or 5/3 these days with ice and protection as weak as it is? Aside from Fast Advancing it out without advancing it beforehand, I guess. Or threatening to just blow them up if they touch the agenda. Or is the focus more now to score out a bunch of 3/1s?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 24, 2017 16:54
|
|
|
If they were to do another reboot of the game, which I know will never happen, I feel like shying away from fast advance is the best way to go. Without FA, I think 3/2s aren’t super duper powerful. Obviously they’re strong, but I don’t think they’re overwhelmingly so. I know a lot of people were drawn to Netrunner because of the bluffing aspects, and I feel like Fast Advance goes against that entirely. Never Advance definitely ties into this, and a more traditional glacier-style deck ties into it as well. Typing all this out, I’m reminded of when I was new to the game, playing with other people who were new, and we’d always try weird poo poo and weird bluffs. Basically shellgame-style gameplay but out of basically every deck. I wonder if that was the initial intended gameplay for the game, but then it just slowly shifted away from that?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 24, 2017 17:53
|
|
|
That article rules, thanks for posting it. It really highlights some of the major over-arching issues the game has, and I’m curious how we ended up at this spot. Seems like a mix of over-reliance on silver bullet cards and yellow getting all the best cards.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2017 20:28
|
|
|
 SIFR destroys more than just ice...
|
|
#
¿
Feb 6, 2017 16:26
|
|
|
Random insane idea: how would a tournament / league work with MtG standard rules? Aka, can only use cards from the last two years. So, for Netrunner, that would be from Order and Chaos and up. gently caress it, maybe also increase minimum deck size by 15 (so the average deck is 60 cards) and increase each card limit to 4. MtGrunner.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 7, 2017 20:17
|
|
|
Midjack posted:4x limit and increased deck size cancel out while inconveniencing everyone, though I like the pool change to force use of overlooked cards. I feel like the 4x cards with increased deck limit WOULD give more room for more niche strategies and cards, although limiting the card pool to only be the last two years would probably force that anyways so yeah probably not the best idea. And yeah, 1.1.1.1 rules, I wish it were more widespread.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 7, 2017 21:34
|
|
|
General Battuta posted:Twice the Parasite recursion You get 1 core set (so you don’t get 2 or 3 desperados), choose 1 big box, 1 data pack, and then 1 card (from any set or data pack) that you can have max copies of. Then you build your deck with those choices. You get different choices for runner and corp, and you can choose any ID. You keep any errata on cards, but no MWL. CodfishCartographer fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Feb 7, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Feb 7, 2017 21:46
|
|
|
On the plus side, Boggs seems to like Fun Netrunner: thousand cuts jinteki, hyper aggression criminal, project junebug, etc. And he straight-up admits that NBN and Anarch have too much power, and Weyland is struggling. The fact that he says that gives me hope, since Damon seemed so determined that no, Weyland is fine, it’s YOUR fault for not understanding it!!
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2017 17:41
|
|
|
I feel like FFG needs to design with a two-year rotation in mind from the start. I know they just recently started up an Arkham Horror LCG, anyone know if FFG have announced any plans for rotation or anything to keep the meta under wraps?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2017 20:27
|
|
|
Bye SIFR
|
|
#
¿
Feb 13, 2017 21:27
|
|
|
So I’m curious as to what “trashed (from any location)” means, according to the rules. Obviously if a corp plays a card that says to trash a runner card, that applies. Trash abilities probably apply too? What about when a runner overdraws and needs to discard? What about when a runner plays an event? What about when Parasite eats a piece of ice? What about when the runner takes damage? Also Brain Rewiring has some classic FFG rule wording. Do you draw the 1 card, or does the runner?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 14, 2017 17:37
|
|
|
Vivian Darkbloom posted:Thanks, I'll check them out when NetrunnerDB is working. I have a feeling playing Monolith is kind of like playing huge impractical green creatures in MtG, but I was just giving a deck a shot. What a loving world we live in where "should I bother using icebreakers" is a legit question a new player has. Anyways: -NBN is widely considered the best Corp faction. Every Corp deck in the top 5 (10?) at the last world's tournament was NBN. That being said, a lot of their power came from more recent cards you might not yet have. -I just print out proxies. Especially if you're not at any competitive stuff no one will care. I've seen hand-drawn proxies of popular cards. -ice destruction and avoidance is powerful, but limited. There are plenty of tools to counter it (or at least to counter recursion of it) with more coming soon. Icebreakers are necessary for when you run out of tools, as they guarantee you will get in with enough money. -economy management is like 80% of the game. It's a massive part of the game, the meta is often shaped by big economy cards. It's why people say monolith isn't good: it costs a massive amount of credits (also because it forces you to not play programs, further killing your tempo) -Corp is kind of at a weird spot right now, but generally you win by taxing the runner until they can't get into a remote server, which you then score out of. You tax them primarily with ice that is relatively cheap to rez, but the runner needs to pay to get through over and over. Them trashing assets is also a double-edged sword; you lose the asset, but they lose money. Disclaimer: I'm a bit out of date on the meta, my words are from a really casual standpoint. If your meta has more serious players (considering they run SIFR + ice destruction, it's likely) then my advice might not apply. Honestly I don't know how to deal with that poo poo without using newer cards that counter it.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 20, 2017 07:20
|
|
|
Those breakers are gunna rule in Geist decks
|
|
#
¿
Feb 22, 2017 16:45
|
|
|
-3 influence on cards holy poo poo 
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2017 17:00
|
|
|
Kaethela posted:TD UFAQ is here! Relatedly, I'm glad NRDB has the batch rulings now, gently caress wikia. I still don't know who draws the card at the end of Brain Rewiring.
|
|
#
¿
May 2, 2017 16:59
|
|
|
I mean, at least the FAQ addresses that in its own clumsy way. I love all the times it says "Just pretend it ACTUALLY says this!" I'm a little surprised at how sloppy this release is, it's far worse than anything FFG has released before in terms of Netrunner. I wonder if they recently restructured their QA department or something.
|
|
#
¿
May 2, 2017 17:21
|
|
|
Having not played TD but being a big netrunner fan in general, I suspect the really critical reviews are coming from the super hardcore fans. I think a casual fan would probably enjoy it a lot, from what I've read.
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2017 03:01
|
|
|
To be fair, Corroder and Godian Blade are probably way too efficient. It'd be interesting to play a version of the game where all the "good" breakers are banned. Maybe get rid of some of the best defensive upgrades like ash or caprice too to balance it out a little. If every breaker had some crippling drawback, it might be interesting to try and work around them / with them in mind.
|
|
#
¿
May 7, 2017 01:29
|
|
|
Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:If you took away the forfeit, it would become godlike. Drop it turn 1, then shuttle it to whatever server they poke/drop Temujin on. It would be fuckoff annoying and crush a lot of runner plans that are built around the conceit of "the corp can't ice all three servers turn 1 and pay for it" I think with forfeit it works, yeah. You could technically price it to be prohibitive to rez + server swap at turn 1, but after it's rezzed it basically means you have an on-demand piece of ice to rez on any server for whatever the swap cost would be, so forfeiting feels like a solid payment.
|
|
#
¿
May 8, 2017 19:28
|
|
|
Maybe make sacrificing an advancement counter on it the cost to move it around? I feel like using advancement counters as currency isn't really something explored yet.
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2017 05:10
|
|
|
Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:I instinctively have an idea what "Dying Game Syndrome" is, but can I get your definition of it? I assume nerds getting mad because their game is dying, and when nerds get mad apparently they get really sexist (and probably racist and homophobic too) While I never saw any grossness from my local group of Netrunners, there was only ever three girls I saw at the events - one played just on her own, one played because her boyfriend got into it, and the other was just there (and not playing) because her boyfriend was playing. So not a fantastic track record, and I live in a really progressive / liberal city that I would expect a lot more from. I definitely would see a more even distribution at MtG events, but I think that could maybe be written off as it being a more popular / successful game?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2017 15:54
|
|
|
LordNat posted:Once a games community stops growing it condenses more and more into just the hardcore loaner types holding on. Those type of people tend to have limited social skills and drive more people away from the game. I see it less in tabletop games, it tends to be a more video game related thing but Netrunner has the stink of Dying Game Syndrome all over it right now. FFG really needs to fix game balance and work on reviving the kitchen table side of the game to keep it alive. I think netrunner would probably need a complete overhaul / redesign to improve the problems it has on the kitchen table front. It’s a really drat complicated game, and there’s a lot of things you gotta try to teach people new to it. Compare to MtG, where the teaching basically goes “you can only play one of these land cards per turn, which you can turn sideways to gain mana, which you use as energy to play cards. you can attack with monsters, the left number is how much damage they deal and the right number is how much damage is needed to kill them. if you attack with a monster, you can't block with it on your next turn. you need to deal 20 total damage to me in order to win.” and that’s BASICALLY the whole game. There are more finnicky parts to the rules, of course, but those four sentences are enough to get someone playing. When you try to teach netrunner, you need to explain all the different actions you can take on a turn, you need to explain how running works and how ice encounters work and how damage works and if the runner runs out of cards in hand they lose but the corp doesn’t and if the corp runs out of cards in their deck they lose but the runner doesn’t and also the corp draws a card every turn but the runner doesn’t and and and etc. this is a lot of info, especially when I suspect most casual / new players’ eyes start glazing over as soon as you go “okay, so there are three TYPEs of ice..” e: god help you if you're teaching a new player and they run into a psygame or a trace. CodfishCartographer fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jun 5, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2017 16:25
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 21, 2024 23:21 |
|
|
Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:Other than "stop giving Orange and Yellow ALL THE CARDS", how would you do this? Specifically, the "kitchen table side" of things. NetRunner strikes me as a Vs. System-level complex game designed explicitly for die-hards; it's immensely complex and unapproachable (hence the thread title). What on Earth could you do to make it more casual? The game could definitely be changed to be more casual-friendly, but again it’d need a massive overhauling to make it work. It might be an interesting / fun game design experiment to try and simplify it down, actually. Probably would need to get rid of ice types and ice breakers, streamline it so both players have the same number of actions and both draw (or don’t) cards at the start of the turn, get rid of memory limits (and probably traces in general as well), smooth out how upgrades / assets+agendas all fit into servers together, make deck construction for corp easier in terms of agendas and agenda points, maaaybe standardize the name of things (R&D vs stack, archives vs heap, etc). Like I said, the game would need a massive overhaul, as basically every one of these suggestions would require entire redesigns of almost every facet of the game in order to still function afterwards. I'm also not saying any of these suggestions would be GOOD for the game or make it better, but they would certainly make the game much more accessible for new players. It also would lose some of the complexity that the current fanbase enjoys, but that may be necessary if the game is going to stay alive. General Battuta posted:I don't know if that's a solvable problem. The issue is that in a pure breaker vs. ice game the corp will always win. See, I actually don't agree with this. I wrote up a bit of an effort post a while back on how the game has a dynamic shifting balance of power built into it: CodfishCartographer posted:Ice is binary, but ideally that binary state changes throughout the game and that’s what makes (made) ice interesting. When you’re new to netrunner and playing with other newbies, ice serves the purpose of shifting the balance of power back and forth. The pacing of the games tend to go: I think that this shifting balance of power is really elegant way to design the game and will come very naturally to newer players, but is lost as players gain more experience with the game. I think if FFG kept this design as the focus, the game could have shined much more. If a Netrunner 2.0: Casual Edition ever happens, I think THIS should be the focus of the design. CodfishCartographer fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jun 5, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2017 16:46
|
|