Constitutional Convention PbP (MOD APPROVED)

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Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Skip here for the current topics to debate or attempt to influence your delegate

Article V of the Constitution posted:

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

We're gonna re-write the constitution! :siren:

The time is now, present day. A mixture of right-wing conservative states in conjunction with deep-pocketed interests like the Kochs have joined with a few vindictive liberal states and gotten the necessary 38 states needed to call for a Constitutional Convention. The game is set in modern day, but for the sake of discussion, ignore that it is an election year (though certainly if you'd like to re-legislate how elections will be run, by all means do so!)

America hasn't had one of these since the first one, and nobody really knows what's up for grabs.
What I'm proposing is a roleplaying play-by-post game where 10 lucky* posters will get to post as the delegates for a block of states. I've split them up into roughly equivalent populations; for the simplicity of this simulation/game, each poster who represents a bloc will have 1 vote. 1 other poster will be the Supreme Court, with the power to break ties, should they come up.

I'm hoping to get one article voted on per week or so; I'll take the role of "Speaker" just to bring articles/amendments up to be fixed if no one does. Voting will be by email to npcdel@gmail.com; debate should generally happen in this thread, however vote-trading is totally acceptable. Feel free to declare a surrogate to vote for you if you don't think you can make the floor in a given week.

Some topics you might want to bring up:

The Electoral College, yeah or nay?
The House (or Senate?)
Guns?
Rights for all?
Contract some states?
Add some states/Puerto Rico/DC?
Second Bill of Rights?
Mandatory Vaccines
National Anthem/Bird/Sport

The options are finite, though I'd like to keep this relatively short, say a 3 month commitment at most, so a week to decide the 10 things to be debated (send a list of your area's top five issues, then I'll create the docket) then I'll present a thing each week and we'll see how it goes.

The blocs available are:

NCR - Cat_Herder
Las Vegas
Phoenix
Salt Lake City
Denver
All the big square states

Midlands - :siren:

My Imaginary GF :siren:

St Louis
Kansas City (both of 'em)
Topeka
Milwaukee
Oklahoma City

Libertopia - DivineCoffeeBinge
Chicago
Pittsburgh
Cleveland
Cincinnati

Texas - Loel
Texas

Appalachia - Random Paul
Nashville
Little Rock
Lexington
New Orleans

Cascadia - Seiferguy
Seattle
Portland
San Francisco
Los Angeles

CSA - Elmnt80
Atlanta
Birmingham
Miami
Tampa

Tidewater - Quorum
Charleston
Research Triangle Park (Raleigh-Durham)
Washington, DC
Baltimore

New York City - Xiahou Dun
NYC
Also Staten Island!
All of New York State I guess
And New Jersey :lol:

New England - RagnarokAngel
Boston
Philadelphia
Bangor

Kanakaua - Rafza
Hawaii
Alaska
Puerto Rico
Microstates like American Samoa, Marianas Island, etc.

Post in this thread to claim a bloc. If the bloc you want is already claimed, post anyway and you'll be the surrogate in case the first claimee flakes after a week. Questions welcome!

E: Thanks to Quorum for this map:

Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Sep 5, 2016

# ¿ Sep 3, 2016 04:35

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 22, 2024 06:35

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Schedule:
9/2: Week 1 (Ends 9/5): Delegation Arrives (everyone claims blocks by posting, initial intro/greet your fellow delegates)
9/6: Week 2 (Ends 9/12): Discussion of what topics to cover over the next ten weeks. Email of your top five things to amend/add/delete are due to npcdel@gmail.com
9/12: Article 1! The Congress! Make sure your favorite useful idiots can get their jobs done and bring home the earmarked pork!

_{(I'll be linking this post to the post starting each week)}

Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Sep 12, 2016

# ¿ Sep 3, 2016 04:35

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Quorum posted:

So while creating a Debate & Discussion Constitution would of course be all sorts of fun, implementing Full Communism and Effort-Posting Earns Citizenship, it'll be more fun if we actually try to serve the interests of our regions primarily. Old-style regionalism is way more rad than sectarianism.

That was my thinking, too. I've updated the OP to reflect a direct PM link to the various delegates, for when you guys need to do shady smoke-filled rooms deals.

My hope was that you would soft-role-play as someone at least nominally representing the interests of (in order) your donor class, your industries, your political dynasties, and last (and least) your constituents.

Having two items a week to debate and discuss will let vote-trading occur.

DivineCoffeeBinge, New England was already claimed, but TriState (NYC/NJ/CT) is wide-open, if you'd rather have your own bloc than serve as an alternate.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2016 16:06

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

I'd rather serve as an alternate; I know NE and could effectively roleplay its interests a bit more than the Tri-State area.

...can alternates kibbitz and make suggestions to whoever's running their delegation, come to think of it?

Sure, that's how it was in real life, so why not?

:siren:

ALL SPOTS FILLED :siren:

However, if you're interested in being an alternate should the original delegate not respond/post, definitely post here!

Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Sep 3, 2016

# ¿ Sep 3, 2016 17:20

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Xiahou Dun posted:

Can I rely on you to not doxx the hell out of me, or should I use my SA-only bullshit cut-out e-mail?

I give you my no-doxx guarantee, though you could send via PM if you don't trust an 11-year poster

# ¿ Sep 3, 2016 17:57

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Quorum posted:

Incidentally, because I am at work and it is deathly dull, I created a map with my interpretation of the blocs as set forth in the OP. Feel free to throw it up there for those of us who are visually oriented if you like, or let me know if I got something terribly wrong and have offended the touchy people of Shitsville, Kansas or something.

WARNING: loving ENORMOUS (just like America )

This is gorgeous and just about exactly right, only change is Hawaii has elected to vote with New England because reasons.

e: lol you updated it.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2016 18:23

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

I am suddenly struck by the thought that Philadelphia being represented by the NE bloc is perhaps a little unusual, given that the rest of its state is within Libertopia and from a geographical standpoint it's got the NYC bloc in its way (E: and might be culturally closer to Tidewater).

I mean, if we still want to do it that way it's cool (if Hawaii can hook up with NE so can Philly), but I wanted to double-check on the apportionment.

...also if no one has claimed them within 24 hours I'll swap out my NE Alternate status to be the Libertopian rep. If I pay closer attention to the needs of New England than of the states I'm supposedly representing, well, it's not like that's a thing that's ever happened at a Constitutional Convention before, right? Muah hah hah...

So I wasn't really sure what to do up there, since there's so many massive metropolises and I wanted to keep the number of blocs at 10. Philly and Boston were both full of terrible sports fans, so I moved Philly to the NE bloc; I don't think Philly has much in common with either NYC or the rest of the Rust Belt (Libertopia), but I'm happy to shift stuff around.

I made Elmt80 the delegate for the CSA since nobody's claimed it yet, but if someone wants it, Elmt80 did originally want to just be an advisor/delegate. If you take Libertopia (originally titled Rustopia, but that was a bit on the nose. I'm thinking now it makes more sense?), that means we can start the show?

# ¿ Sep 3, 2016 20:34

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

IF YOU ARE NOT A DELEGATE!

Check this map for what bloc you are in (per your IRL home) and post in this thread for the constitutional things that matter most to you:

(thanks to Quorum)

The Delegates are set! Again, if you'd like to be an alternate (in case your bloc's delegate flakes out), let me know via PM. Your bloc leaders are (with links to PM them):

NCR - Cat_Herder

Midlands - :siren:

My Imaginary GF :siren:

Libertopia - DivineCoffeeBinge

Texas - Loel

Appalachia - Random Paul

Cascadia - Seiferguy

CSA - Elmnt80

Tidewater - Quorum

New York City - Xiahou Dun

New England - RagnarokAngel

[img]

[/img]
Kanakaua - Rafza

Delegates, you have until September 12th to submit your list of things you'd like to make sure make it in to Constitution 2: Law Harder

Some things to keep in mind:
The constitution covers the following issues:

The Legislative branch, including what it's made up of and its powers (article I). This is where the Commerce and Necessary and Proper clauses show up
The Executive Branch, including who is allowed to be president/vice president, and what their powers are (article II)
The Judicial Branch (article III)
States rights and responsibilities towards each other (article IV)
How the constitution itself is amended (article V)
Safeguards of Liberty (amendments 1-3)
Safeguards of Justice (amendments 4-8)
Unenumerated rights and reserved powers (Amendments 9, 10)
Governmental authority (Amendments 11, 16)
Safeguards of civil rights (Amendments 13, 14, 15, 19, 23, 24, 26)
Government Procedures (Amendments 12, 17, 20, 22, 25, 27)
The size of federal government
Equal Rights for all

Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Sep 5, 2016

# ¿ Sep 3, 2016 23:11

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Loel posted:

For the purposes of voting, do we need a simple majority (6/10), or two thirds? (7/10)

I'm amenable to either. Let's say a simple majority, or 5/10 with me casting the deciding vote.

E: Actually, per PM:

My Imaginary GF posted:

Mr. Adams, please trust your convention delegates. Let us put it to a vote what constitutes a majority vote!

I'm amenable to a quick vote on what a majority would be. Is there a voting tool other than Google Forms that is more user-friendly/easier to share?

EDIT EDIT:

: I put it to the delegation!

Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Sep 4, 2016

# ¿ Sep 4, 2016 00:13

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

SpaceCadetBob posted:

Can I get a clarification if CT is NYC or New England? Want to know which PM box to pester

It's New York's domain. Yell at Xiahao Dun

# ¿ Sep 4, 2016 00:53

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Basically, I was shooting for "as serious as we can be," treat this as if you were representing a voting bloc in a real constitutional convention (whatever that means).

OF NOTE!
-You can't exactly re-write laws; that's the legislative branch's job. You're just here to ensure the powers to do it, and to maybe outline some things that are necessary and proper, like say "the government should run the postal service" or "copywright should exist" (things that are there now - but maybe we should take a look at!)

I'm expecting some of you to show up with "full communism now" platforms, to which I ask: are you sure your constituent states and donors want full communism now?

Also, you are heavily encouraged to pander, drink mint juleps and/or attack each other on the floor with canes.

# ¿ Sep 4, 2016 02:02

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Loel posted:

OP, when you have enough platforms can we expect a weekly agenda to argue over? ie

Week 1, healthcare
week 2, energy

etc? I want to know what to trade votes for

Yes. On September 12th, the first week's debates will put two (possibly more) items on the floor. Six days of negotiation, then a vote. September 19th, two new items. Repeat until we have a functioning constitution.

If anyone wants to take a stab at a new Preamble, go nuts. "We The People..." doesn't really sing; what about "We the Corporations..."?

RandomPauI posted:

This are not the final positions of apalachia, they're merely reflective of preferences of the Delegate from Apalachia, a region suffering from unemployment, natural disasters, and rife for being deligated by a beloved populist. He may have been recovering from a hangover while typing this position paper.

1) Executive branch needs a strong leader president and a figurehead appointed by the legislature to remind the strong leader president that the legislature still signs the checks.

Are you suggesting a shadow-president appointed by the House to sternly grunt and shake his/her head "no" whenever the president's about to sign a law?

# ¿ Sep 4, 2016 02:04

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

OOC: I think the intention is "some wingnut governors made this happen, run with it but try to stick with your actual constituents' values,"

that was my hope

# ¿ Sep 4, 2016 06:08

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Loel posted:

Thats a good point.

OP, can we assume whatever we come up with becomes the law of the land?

Obviously. Also I see you sneakdooring "churches can engage in political speech" up there :argh:

# ¿ Sep 4, 2016 16:19

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Rafza posted:

I understand Hawaii got swallowed up (by the east coast of all things) but if Texas can have its own thing, I'd like to represent Hawaii. Hell, give me all of the Pacific territories while we're at it.

Aloha, motherfuckers.

Well then, lightning round time. Delegates have until 12:00am Tuesday morning (Pacific) to vote on this issue! I'm sending a form via PM, please don't break it.

OOC: Does anyone have an idea for how to effectively do polls and share them with the 10(11 soon?) posters? The PM system for SA is bunk because I have to send 10 messages, can't use commas in the recipients line. I guess GMail would work, but I don't have everyone's email yet.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2016 00:09

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

HiHo ChiRho posted:

Aside from the status of where CT lies, My important issue as a resident of NYC/NE is this:

Mandatory service upon reaching the age of 18, but allow for service to be done through non military government institutions (Teach for America, Peace Corps, bring back the TVA, etc)

Would you go so far as to say Service Guarantees Citizenship?

# ¿ Sep 5, 2016 00:55

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Without 2 more yea's, Hawaii will not receive its full representation. Write your delegate now!

# ¿ Sep 5, 2016 02:16

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Also this is a good chance to remove the racist reference to'savages' in the original document

# ¿ Sep 5, 2016 02:30

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Rafza posted:

I would be fine with this, as well as including Puerto Rico in as well with the Pacific territories

Elmnt80 posted:

I vote against hawaii being a seperate voting block. It would grant too much power to a single small state that does not represent the wider necessities and desires of the country at large.

The current vote is for an 11th bloc to be created consisting of Hawai'i, Alaska, Puerto Rico, Marianas Island, America Samoa and the various other Pacific conquests. WRITE YOUR DELEGATE!

# ¿ Sep 5, 2016 02:39

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Rafza posted:

I understand Hawaii got swallowed up (by the east coast of all things) but if Texas can have its own thing, I'd like to represent Hawaii. Hell, give me all of the Pacific territories while we're at it.

Aloha, motherfuckers.

UPDATE!

With a much closer vote than expected, the motion is carried, and Rafza becomes the 11th delegate from the bloc of Kalakaua. We welcome our island friend, representing the diaspora of American interests worldwide. Aloha!

# ¿ Sep 5, 2016 15:41

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Nobody's transferring anything. For one, opening remarks start tomorrow. For two, Dixie already has the world's largest airport and Miami as a shipping hub. If you take New Orleans as an industrial center away from Appalachia, they have literally no economic hubs of note.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2016 16:05

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Effortpost!

Welcome all to the 2nd Constitutional Convention. I'm happy to see my fellow distinguished gentlegoons in the thread today. As a reminder to those at home across America, your delegates are:

NCR - Cat_Herder

Midlands - :siren:

My Imaginary GF :siren:

Libertopia - DivineCoffeeBinge

Texas - Loel

Appalachia - Random Paul

Cascadia - Seiferguy

CSA - Elmnt80

Tidewater - Quorum

New York City - Xiahou Dun

New England - RagnarokAngel

Kanakaua - Rafza

If you'd like to be an alternate (in case your bloc's delegate flakes out), let me know via PM.

The docket is as follows:

This week:
Ratification of the preamble, open discussion on topics, formal submissions.

Some things to keep in mind:
The constitution covers the following issues:

The Legislative branch, including what it's made up of and its powers (article I). This is where the Commerce and Necessary and Proper clauses show up
The Executive Branch, including who is allowed to be president/vice president, and what their powers are (article II)
The Judicial Branch (article III)
States rights and responsibilities towards each other (article IV)
How the constitution itself is amended (article V)
Safeguards of Liberty (amendments 1-3)
Safeguards of Justice (amendments 4-8)
Unenumerated rights and reserved powers (Amendments 9, 10)
Governmental authority (Amendments 11, 16)
Safeguards of civil rights (Amendments 13, 14, 15, 19, 23, 24, 26)
Government Procedures (Amendments 12, 17, 20, 22, 25, 27)
The size of federal government
Equal Rights for all

Some topics you might want to bring up:

The Electoral College, yeah or nay?
The House (or Senate?)
Guns?
Rights for all?
Contract some states?
Add some states/Puerto Rico/DC?
Second Bill of Rights?
Mandatory Vaccines
National Anthem/Bird/Sport

PLEASE SUBMIT, VIA GMAIL TO npcdel@gmail.com YOUR 5 MOST-IMPORTANT UPDATES/REVISIONS/AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION. This can also be things you want to ensure stay, such as no British troops quartered in American homes!!

OOC: Currently, there will be a GoogleDoc with tabbed tables for you to vote. I WILL NEED YOUR GMAILS TO ADD YOU AS AN EDITOR. ALL WILL BE ABLE TO SEE, BUT ONLY YOU TEN CAN EDIT.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2016 00:59

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Current Preamble:

quote:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Proposed Update:

quote:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

No major changes, a typographical update to a modernized version of the word "defense."

If any members wish to propose additions/changes, now (this week, before September 12th) would be the time to do so. Also, consider (given the existing text and amendments) what your five most important issues will be. We'll be ratifying whole blocks of the previous constitution a week at a time, with debate and voting on each section over the week (I'll provide a first-draft update, and we'll discuss which votes to carry, with a vote the following Sunday.)

Amendments/changes, if not directly addressed in the constitution itself, will be at the end of the convention.

OOC: So, for example, if you think your bloc would like to do away with the USPS, be sure to include in your 5 changes/additions:

quote:

1) Article I, Section 8.7 - Fakeopolis would like to strike this line. Instead, "The US Gov't shall create a genetically hyperintelligent breed of passenger pigeons"

That would be an ideal thing to include on the docket. Everyone is submitting 5, so that's 55 suggestions to winnow down into 20 (two/week for ten weeks), I'm hoping there's enough overlap to address everyone's concerns.

Let the debating and discussion begin. Again,

:siren:

VOTES FOR YOUR FIVE **MOST IMPORTANT** ISSUES ARE DUE 9/12. :siren:

I do encourage you to work strategically in the open; if you know everyone's gonna put "get rid of guns," you can probably safely put "universal child care" in your five.

_{In case anyone's curious, my five are:Abolish the 2nd Amendment
Amend the 8th to ban Death sentences and LWOP except for Treason
Recognition of Puerto Rico and DC as states; merging of Wyoming and Montana, and North and South Dakota into states
Congressional districts drawn by computer
Mandate universal healthcare as a fundamental right}

Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Sep 6, 2016

# ¿ Sep 6, 2016 01:11

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

Welcome all to the 2nd Constitutional Convention. I'm happy to see my fellow distinguished gentlegoons in the thread today.

Time: 3:59pm

RagnarokAngel posted:

Oh that is it. Duel on the floor, now.

Loel posted:

Time: 4:48

49 minutes from opening gavel to physical violence.

Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Sep 6, 2016

# ¿ Sep 6, 2016 01:54

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Loel posted:

We here at home would like to know - what is the IHS and BIA?

BIA is, I'm guessing, the racist (and inaccurate) Bureau of Indian Affairs. No idea on IHS

# ¿ Sep 7, 2016 01:17

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Xiahou Dun posted:

PS if anyone knows good GIS search terms for an NYC as gently caress politician, please help. I have this idea in my head but I can't quite formulate it. Basically like sleazy but more liberal de Blasio???

Don't gently caress with the classics.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2016 01:31

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

You guys are making me want to have a legislative thread after the CC wraps up... :sigh:

# ¿ Sep 7, 2016 02:33

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

HiHo ChiRho posted:

fixed that for you

lol adding 7 states from Mexico would be amazing. So long outsourced jobs. Hello 14 democratic senators.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2016 02:43

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

RandomPauI posted:

(OOC, are we agenda setting or voting for amendments?)

The only thing going on this week is hashing out what your top five things are, and whether we change a c to an s in the preamble, unless you want more radical changes to the preamble. Sep 12 is when the craziness starts

# ¿ Sep 7, 2016 15:15

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

VanSandman posted:

Who's supplying the copious amounts of booze for this convention? It is in my interests that they are purchased from Tidewater-region alcohol makers.

Tidewater is welcome to provide cartons of their fantastic tobacco products, but all bourbon is to be supplied from Appalachia's stores of Pappy Van Winkel and Maker's Mark.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2016 18:57

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

I've updated a list of the issues facing this grave body, and am keeping it close to the vest until all the delegations have responded via email to npcdel@gmail.com.

Next week is Article I, which covers the legislative branch. This means congresscritters, voting/election changes and the actual scope of congress.

I'll also be offering the chance to ratify "Appendix A: Treaties" which will read with Loel's wording of 'the following treaties are ratified, nyah nyah' or whatever.

Your state needs you, now more than ever!

Also, be sure to log in to The Convention Calendar and update your vote for changing the letter c to the letter s in the preamble (on tab 3). It's important just so the nation can all see how voting will go.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2016 23:05

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Sen. Early Cuyler (R as all hell - GA) has spoken. More entitlements, less welfare

# ¿ Sep 10, 2016 01:42

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Welcome all delegates to week 2 of the constitutional convention. The motion to amend the preamble to update to modern conventions of spelling has carried, with the next phase being the re-writing of Article I, the section on Legislative duties and elections. After the delegates making their wishes known, I've presented a version here that addresses many of the delegate's wishes related to updating this document. Changes are in BOLD, or ~~struck~~ where they are no longer applicable. The 16th, 17th, and portions of the 20th and 27th amendments have been included, making their appearance later in the document unnecessary.

:11tea:

for those of you eager to ban guns or institute universal health care and equal rights, I promise that is coming. This whole "what is a Constitutional Convention" is super-interesting, and I'm guessing that they'd give a quick first-pass over the original document before moving on to new amendments.

Without further ado,

:siren:

Article I :siren:

Section 1.

All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
Section 2.

The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every ~~second~~fourth Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.

No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years.~~, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.~~ The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the next Meeting of the Congress of the United States after the ratification of this document, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. Each state shall have at least 1 representative, and the least-populous state shall be the baseline by which the number of representatives be apportioned.The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New-York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.

When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies.

The House of Representatives shall chuoose their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.
Section 3.

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures._{(this is the 17th amendment)}

Immediately after they shall be assembled in Consequence of the next Election, they shall be divided as equally as may be into three Classes. The Seats of the Senators of the first Class shall be vacated at the Expiration of the second Year, of the second Class at the Expiration of the fourth Year, and of the third Class at the Expiration of the sixth Year, so that one third may be chosen every second Year; and when vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen.

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided. ~~Until such time as his death, Joseph Robinette "Joe" Biden Jr. shall serve as President of the Senate.~~

The Senate shall chuoose their other Officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the Absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the Office of President of the United States.

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
Section 4.

The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chuoosing Senators.

The Congress shall assemble at least once in every Year, and such Meeting shall be on the first Monday in December, unless they shall by Law appoint a different Day.
Section. 5.

Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members, and a Majority of each shall constitute a Quorum to do Business; but a smaller Number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the Attendance of absent Members, in such Manner, and under such Penalties as each House may provide.

Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member.

Each House shall keep a Journal of its Proceedings, and from time to time publish the same, excepting such Parts as may in their Judgment require Secrecy; and the Yeas and Nays of the Members of either House on any question shall, at the Desire of one fifth of those Present, be entered on the Journal.

Neither House, during the Session of Congress, shall, without the Consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other Place than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting.
Section. 6.

The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.

No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened.

No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.
Section. 7.

All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If they approve they shall sign it, but if not they shall return it, with their Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to them, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if they had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by them, or being disapproved by them, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill.
Section. 8.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration._{(this is the 16th amendment)}

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;�And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Section. 9.

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person._{(the 13th amendment ended slavery, as such, this archaic and shameful clause shall be removed)}

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid. ~~unless in Proportion to the Census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.~~

No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.

No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
Section. 10.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing ~~but gold and silver Coin~~ a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Control of the Congress.

No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

I'm not sure if stuff like UHC and Infrastructure as a right belong in Section 8 here, or as their own amendment. Feel free to argue over their inclusion. Sometime around Wednesday, I'll throw up the whole text as an up-down vote. If it is not ratified, the original 1789 text shall be adopted in full, no changes, including the :10bux:

a head slave tax that is really fuckin' shameful, so let's make sure we don't do that, yeah?

Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Sep 17, 2016

# ¿ Sep 12, 2016 01:22

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Just as an additional heads-up, the distinguished gentleman from St. Louis, representing the Midlands, has advised this gentleman that he wishes to adopt the original text, "as the founding fathers perfected it," in its entirety with no changes other than typographical.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2016 01:31

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

RandomPauI posted:

OOC: Request for clarification. What is the current makeup of the senate? 50/50 split?

OOC: assume current split and trends (ie, likely to swing back to D control soon)

Also, note that the presidential appointments and "no congressional stonewalling" stuff goes in Article II, under president-y stuff.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2016 01:47

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Loel posted:

Amendments

it is the duty of the chair to remind the Texas delegation that there is a necessary and proper time for amendments, and that as the chairman, it is my duty to lead an orderly convention

# ¿ Sep 12, 2016 05:50

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Loel posted:

Ok, Im clearly not understanding the process.

We're in Article 1, with several changes people want to make. What format do you want it in?

For the next week (or until such time as it is ratified and adopted) only Article ı, and changes germane to that section, are under review. I promise we'll get to the good juicy "fix the country" bits, but proposing new amendments is a little bit off. Also, amendments are technically unnecessary if we amend the original text (for instance, the 16th ceased to be, as it now simply in Article 1, section 1)

# ¿ Sep 12, 2016 06:12

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

seiferguy posted:

Just a heads up, I'm out with little to no Internet so I hope there's a delegate to help on my behalf!

There is, it is SolKanar512, the Swamp King

# ¿ Sep 12, 2016 21:22

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

RandomPauI posted:

OOC: Just to be clear, we're voting on keeping Article 1 as is OR adding one vaguely worded part and removing two other parts of it.

Yes, essentially. Feel free to propose any other changes to the document as presented, including ripping out whole portions. If you can find 5 delegates to agree, you can do basically anything to article I right now. If you like the way it looks, pop over to the google doc and just bubble in a yes vote. If we get six "as presented" yes's, we can actually move on to Article II, which I know everyone is excited for, because that's the "un-gently caress the EC" article.

The real fancy stuff is in Article I, section 8 - which includes the copyright and patent length, currently at "whatever congress wants" but certainly amendable to any duration by adding that length to the line-item. Debateably, you could also add UHC to this, but I think that stands out better as its own amendment.

Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Sep 13, 2016

# ¿ Sep 13, 2016 21:59

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 06:35

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

My Imaginary GF posted:

You have packed this convention hall as if you were FDR trying to destroy our courts; you have diminished the voice of true delegates in order to promote an agenda of rule by law rather than rule of law.

The midwest strongly objects to the constitutionality of these proceedings!

The delegation from the Midwest is welcome to call for another constitutional convention in 230 years, after this document is implemented and the kinks ironed out over a few centuries. If your plan is pure abstention, you'll need to work with other dissident delegates, since most members (yourself included) joined this venture because you believed in change and updating this staid document. I look forward to your contributions beyond objecting vociferously to allowing our most marginalized citizens in outlying regions like Hawaii, American Samoa and Puerto Rico finally having a voice in our government.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2016 22:32

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