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tsa posted:This thread has less posts in 3 days than the militia thread had in 3 minutes. Media these days reacts to what people are talking about and not even d&d seems to care much. Obviously the National Guard should have autocannoned the militia and rolled over tarp man in an APC.
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Sep 8, 2016 20:20
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Gobbeldygook posted:Would you be okay with it if it ran through Bismarck over the same river and was still capable of contaminating the water supply downstream if it leaked? Or are you just standing athwart history yelling STOP? Hoo boy, who did you make mad enough to give you this redtext  I suspect it's really just yelling STOP but wouldn't have made the news (outside of the Bismarck, Flyover State #5 local paper with a weekly circulation of 20, seriously how lovely is your state if the capital has a population of under 100k) if there weren't people protesting against it in sight of a reservation. As a side note, someone from my year in uni (UK) just took a flight to merica to protest at standing rock 
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Nov 2, 2016 10:59
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Civilized Fishbot posted:The Corps didn't listen to Standing Rock concerns in the 60s, when they destroyed entire towns, why should the Standing Rock expect them to listen now because it's 2016 and they listened to five other reservations' concerns and repeatedly asked if standing rock had concerns maybe?
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Nov 4, 2016 20:35
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Condiv posted:i doubt the need of such a pipeline, and the people who refused to sell should not be forced to sell (especially at "fair market value") to suit the needs of private interests yeah the point of contention should be "less oil pipelines" not "no oil pipelines within sight of this specific reservation"
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Nov 4, 2016 21:05
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Condiv posted:disagreed. i agree "less oil pipelines" is a good thing to argue for, but environmental racism is something we have to combat specifically by making it harder to put potential pollutants near oppressed groups. in fact, doing so would probably help a lot making "less oil pipelines" a reality ehhh a nuclear waste dump isn't the best example to support your argument here. it's the #1 example of nimby bait that sounds scary but won't actually affect anyone negatively (unless your house got eminent domain'd for being within the actual facility's area) so choosing the path of least resistance and building it wherever is totally fine
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Nov 4, 2016 21:42
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Condiv posted:no, choosing the path of least resistance is not fine. it leads to poo poo this: how does a three percentage point (or like 9%) difference in living next to coal plants lead to a 200% asthma difference I mean clearly something is wrong for that level of asthma difference to be there but it's something additional besides coal and again because living next to a modern nuclear waste dump has negligible health effects unlike living directly downwind of a modern coal plant the path of least resistance has no harms other than pr for nuclear waste
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Nov 4, 2016 22:52
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coyo7e posted:You're somewhat conflating coal plants with the asthma epidemic in urban environments. I mean imagine growing up in the Bronx in the cities - you weren't getting asthma from coal plants, but from burning buildings and dust. Yeah and that's not from enviromental racism, which was the point of contention.
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Nov 5, 2016 17:12
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coyo7e posted:I dunno, white developers conspiring to burn down buildings in minority neighborhoods so that the developers could reap huge profits by rebuilding and gentrifying entire neighborhoods, while ignoring and/or decrying the dangerous hellscape they themselves created, and its effects on those who live and work there? Sounds a lot like environmental racism to me It's racism but it's not environmental (environment without a qualifier typically doesn't mean urban environment as in buildings).
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Nov 5, 2016 17:47
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Shut up you pedants, nobody cares if rubber bullets technically are bullets. The average person understands "shot" to imply "shot at with a gun that kills".
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Nov 5, 2016 20:49
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Civilized Fishbot posted:"Shut up pedants, let me continue a thread derail about the exact connotations of the word 'shot'" ok let me amend my statement Shut up you pedants, nobody cares if rubber bullets technically are bullets. The average person understands "shot" to imply "shot at with a gun that kills as its primary purpose (and not merely as an occasional accident)". (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 6, 2016 14:01
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Oil KKKompanies are cool and good people, people.
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Nov 6, 2016 16:05
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wateroverfire posted:Like... if the project had plowed over the site instead of documenting the heck out of it and getting approvals for route changes to preserve the site from the appropriate regulators before proceeding then I would be a lot harder on the company. But as it actually happened, what is there to make of it other than a paperwork error? Because oil companies are often bad, they are invariably evil even in cases where they actually weren't evil. Seriously though, I can't believe the situation has gotten so stupid the oil company of all people are shaping up to be the good guys here.
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Nov 8, 2016 20:58
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coyo7e posted:On the other hand according to your own sources - the ACE pretty much immediately turned down the choice to move it near the water of white residents out of hand, and then we're now requiring the native population to be responsible for due diligence? how many people live in each of the two places
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Nov 26, 2016 15:22
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SwingShift posted:"We're not loving you over because we hate you, we're just loving you over because we don't care about you." or anyone else for that matter. Honestly, consistent and enforced uncaringness would probably be a good way for deciding where stuff gets built as it makes the process more difficult for special interests and NIMBY idiots to derail.
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Nov 27, 2016 02:12
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logger posted:How is it then that the same pipeline that is being protested against was first considered to be placed near Bismark until public outcry led to them moving the project into Sioux land? Didn't someone upthread point out that other parts of the pipeline do, in fact, go through white people land next to white people towns across white people rivers?
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Nov 27, 2016 13:58
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Gobbeldygook posted:There was no public outcry in Bismarck. The Bismarck route was evaluated and rejected by the Army Corps of Engineers in favor of the route near the reservation without any public discussion. You can go read their environmental assessment for yourself to see why. Clearly that's because the CoE pre-emptively routed the pipeline away from the oppressor in Bismarck, who would have protested swiftly and effectively had there been even a preliminary plan to route the pipeline within shouting distance of Bismarck.
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Nov 27, 2016 17:30
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RBC posted:Because you make no mention of their issue with the absence of consulting on land outside of the corpse's jurisdiction quote:the corpse setting timelines that may not be realistic for a group of 9,000 peoples with no highly paid and trained government bureaucrats to aid in responding, quote:that they over several years, did respond to the corpse's inquiries, but those responses were simply not what the corpse wanted, and refused to engage with. quote:Furthermore, you comparing this same small group of peoples who have been historically marginalized and abused by the government with a metro area of 120,000 people with federal, state, municipal government representation and bureaucracy is absurd. RBC posted:actually it is because this single issue trumps all other concerns and dictates how more general policy and decisionmaking should function
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Nov 27, 2016 19:10
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RBC posted:Yes Colonial oppression absolutely trumps all other concerns and dictates how "more" general policy and decision making should function. See, recorded history. No it absolutely doesn't, pragmatism does. Also, given that you're still spending money from 1888 you must be very old and might not be the best person to ask about how black people should be treated~ You have also failed to say anything about the other points I raised.
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Nov 27, 2016 19:22
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RBC posted:lol okay tony blair let's pragmatically ban your account for making terrible posts tony blair was bad because he was actually an ideologue pretending to be pragmatic, please get your insults right silence_kit posted:Edit: Looking at my new avatar, it's kind of sad how now any opinion in this thread which doesn't toe this thread's party line hyperbolically gets labeled as genocidal. It kind of trivializes the real genocide the native people experienced at the hands of the previous US government. I would think that posters who are passionate about this issue wouldn't talk about genocide so casually and disrespect peoples who actually have experienced genocide, but here we are. That's because it's easy to just accuse your opponent of arbitrary bad things without thinking too hard about how accurate that accusation actually is. When you're really really really convinced you're right and the other guys are wrong (and also evil) it's appealing to argue badly in this way but it's still arguing in bad faith to blatantly support your team over the other guys irrespective of reality. e: it warms my heart to know I, too, have outraged a posting superstar enough to buy me unimaginative redtext suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Nov 27, 2016 |
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Nov 27, 2016 20:43
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withak posted:http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/standing-rock-north-dakota-access-pipeline-burning-man-festival-a7443266.html I agree, faux-ethical hipsters who protest in the name of $arbitrary_cause are a pox upon humanity.
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Nov 28, 2016 18:10
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Fansy posted:False. The route was originally set to cross the Missouri River just north of the 92% white city of Bismarck. which still doesn't involve ~white~ NIMBYs succeeding at complaining where natives wouldn't
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Nov 28, 2016 22:11
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Buckwheat Sings posted:I'm still surprised by people defending a bunch of fat white people who still hunger for oil despite the ever increasing demand for a clean environment. But I guess I really shouldn't. We'll all be dead of old age and heartattacks and selfishness is what will make America Great Again(tm). Holding the position that properly approved things get built even if someone gets real mad and goes protesting after failing to make a case during the planning process, for instance, to also disregard stupid loving NIMBY objections about a nuclear power plant or solar farm going up in sight of their lovely plot of land. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 22:21
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Poland Spring posted:In all my years I'll never understand why white people hate Native Americans so much. Y'all are arguing over the definition of the word "right" while people are getting amputations over access to clean water. Who gives a single flying gently caress if they didn't dot every i and cross every t on the "please don't poison our water" form 133-A? If this was a town of white people, would the posters in this thread arguing against #NODAPL be as vehement in their condemnation? I sincerely loving doubt it. I, for one, would happily see rich white landowner NIMBYs arrested over the same poo poo. Also actively refusing to even deal with the approval process beyond making patently unrealistic and ill-defined claims is way beyond not quite dotting every i and crossing every t.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:29
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CommieGIR posted:No. They were not. Specifically, the DPL construction group hid/delayed discover of multiple sites. [citation loving needed]
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Nov 28, 2016 22:33
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Fansy posted:Look at the picture on page 22. That does not count as a plan - it's literally the initial "let's make a bunch of candidate routes" stage. There wasn't a proposal to actually build the route upstream of Bismarck that was withdrawn and replaced by a proposal to build the route upstream of Standing Rock.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:42
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Fansy posted:It's very difficult to get people to accept a well known fact in this forum. blowfish posted:That does not count as a plan - it's literally the initial "let's make a bunch of candidate routes" stage. There wasn't a proposal to actually build the route upstream of Bismarck that was withdrawn and replaced by a proposal to build the route upstream of Standing Rock.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:44
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Poland Spring posted:Who gives a poo poo, there's people crippled for life over this and it looks very much like people are going to die in the next couple weeks, which shouldn't have happened in the first place. There's procedures in place for ensuring safety and health in both sides of a protest that are blatantly not being followed. Even if the pipeline is "legal" their defense of it is not, and serious consideration must be made about the precedents things like this will set. I don't want how they handled this to become the standard for suppression of protests, especially considering how frequent and ubiquitous protests are becoming.  "they just didn't dot every i and cross every t, you can't hold this minor thing against them" "actually they were being completely obstinate and unreasonable" "nevermind then, dotting every i and crossing every t isn't important according to my newly-shifted goalposts, what really counts is that my side are the good guys"also simultaneously holding the belief that american levels of police brutality are bad and that the protestors are dumb and wrong is possible. like ideally the police would just cordon off the camp and park a food cart at the way out, so that eventually the protestors will get hungry and leave to get to the food cart after which they get sent home/arrested/whatever, but the protest is still stupid and bad suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 22:50
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Poland Spring posted:My goalpost was "who gives a poo poo about paperwork" so just keep on moving yours This guy in your post must have an extremely high opinion of himself.
suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 23:00
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Poland Spring posted:My goalpost was "who gives a poo poo about paperwork" so just keep on moving yours Also paperwork is, in fact, important because properly run regulatory agencies staffed with bureaucrats are
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Nov 28, 2016 23:03
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Poland Spring posted:Yeah your beuracrats sure are doing a great job helping civilization along by putting Immortan Joe in charge i'm sorry but trump is getting the job because america is full of apathetic retards (that fail to turn out to vote against a major human disaster) and idiots (that can't tie their own shoelaces and blame foreigners for their stupidity), both of whom need to be counteracted by competent bureaucrats.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:11
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Poland Spring posted:You're right I keep forgetting all those poor bureaucrats blasted by hoses for counteracting oppressive governments back in the day, or the beuracrats providing community outreach and services to those who need it most. It was wrong of me to dismiss the power of paperwork, we all can remember the millions of brave beuracrats who have stood up to injustice by making sure it filled out the proper forms before doing what it was going to do anyway. While bureaucrats are not the sole prerequisite for civilised society to function, they are a necessary prerequisite without which it can't function.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:51
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Uglycat posted:This is a straw man. Come to camp and listen. It's 2016, the internet exists, if your side can't articulate their position clearly enough to make an argument without physically dragging people to their camp then frankly they suck. Uglycat posted:It isn't the Standing Rock Sioux (alone) that are protesting. Rather, the Standing Rock Sioux rolled over on this, and then ALL THE NATIONS OF TURTLE ISLAND decided they give a poo poo. A bunch of teens ran through Omaha, to Standing Rock, and then to DC (on *foot*) to sound the alarm. The Oceti Sakowin - the Seven Council Fires - set up on the land I'm living on. The Youth Council was gifted an Eagle Feather and a Sacred Chanupa. Three Hundred different Nations showed up - and their flags all fly at camp. People from around the world started showing up. Rainbow came - a bond was formed in 2015, when they camped in the Black Hills. Occupy came. Sacred Ground - the land on HWY 1806 under which the pipe had to be laid - became occupied. Burners showed up. Anons showed up. Lots of other groups too. There was an IF Iranian flag flying when I arrived. There are two Palestinian flags. 'Two Spirited' showed up. Extreme outdoorspersons. All sorts of people - Stakeholders, *TRULY*, in the fate of the Missouri, Mississippi, and Turtle Island - came to demo tech or help or (in some cases) do penance. Red Warrior, which I gather is a youth camp in Canada somewhere that Native folk can go to for a sort of 'boot camp' training (in their warrior culture), took charge of camp security.
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Nov 29, 2016 01:31
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Stickarts posted:From known protestor-shill rag the Smithsonian, a little much-needed historical context: This is all
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Nov 29, 2016 11:42
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emdash posted:D&D has consistently, for years, had this problem where some posters are only interested in what is legal (or at least rely on that when it's convenient for them) and others are interested in what is ethical from a given perspective. This thread reads exactly like every thread about cops shooting black people; actions being taken against the oppressed group may be legal, or at least un-prosecutable, but that doesn't make them right. (Unsurprisingly, the usual suspects are here to plead the oppressors' case.) C'mon, people. If everyone just acted in compliance with law all the time, no progress would ever be made. The protestors aren't just wrong legally but also morally. Yeah and? This is the same point debated previously, but now in Huffpo shitpost form rather than D&D shitpost form.
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Nov 29, 2016 23:47
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CommieGIR posted:You realize this is a pretty poor example because of the number of cases where its become apparently that Prosecutors and Police regularly coerce admissions of guilt through unjust means in order to meet quotas and give the artificial feel of justice being done through quota rather than actual justice being meted out. quote:Because the point of highlighting the treaty was to demonstrate: Or, and I'm not sure this possibility has occured to you, one can have the view that the protestors are simply wrong.
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Nov 30, 2016 00:22
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coyo7e posted:Please elaborate. NIMBYs are bad. Infrastructure is good. NIMBYs who become super obstinate after failing to make a serious case during the planning process are super bad. Even when the infrastructure in this particular case is not useful.
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Nov 30, 2016 10:56
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a million dead pigeons on the pavement next to trump tower don't matter a hundred thousand dead endangered woodpeckers on a hill matter for that matter a hundred miles of coastline or river catchment matter i wonder how many bad arguments about pipelines going over rivers this last one will provoke
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Nov 30, 2016 22:53
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Poland Spring posted:poo poo we better alert the bureaucrat bureau so they can swoop in and save those poor birds so they can die from exhaust fumes As always, the answer lies in the power of the mighty atom. Jarmak posted:This is either a tremendous display of illiteracy or a tremendous display of bad faith argumentation, that is not remotely what I said. Return Poland to Russia please, shitlord.
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Nov 30, 2016 23:35
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coyo7e posted:So this is related to oil pipelines so I'm just gonna drop this enormous turd in the room: Drumpf is bad, fossil fuels are bad, in this instance the protestors have worked hard to make big oil look like the good guys. [/thread]
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Dec 2, 2016 16:31
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Poland Spring posted:They're gonna respond with something callous But enough about your skin Doc Hawkins posted:I just want them to explain where they think the IEEFA went wrong in their analysis. Big Oil making a dumb expensive mistake that will make Big Oil less profitable? I won't stand in their way.
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Dec 3, 2016 13:12
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