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There's a direct correlation between obesity in women and income level. If being fat was such a moral failing you wouldn't see trends based on race, gender, and income level. I'm kind of curious how fat people are treated in countries where its much less common to be fat. Like is a 300 lb Japanese woman going to be a total pariah?
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Sep 14, 2016 19:47
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Goons expend a lot of air talking about eating habits and creating calorie deficits. They also beat the same strawman about misconceptions about metabolism. But what is much bigger than that is the cultural impact of weight in our society. Women in particular are far more likely to be obese the poorer they are. Women also get far more poo poo for being fat in the first place, much of it undeserved; a person's self-worth shouldn't be tied to their waist measurement. Girls are growing up in an environment where the number on the scale suggests their own desirability, and if they don't fit that arbitrary and narrow definition then they're worthless. You've got girls as young as ten or younger obsessing about losing weight not because they're overweight by any stretch but because they've convinced themselves that just being yourself isn't enough in society, you have to conform to some arbitrary standard. You've got toxic parents with horrible eating habits and control issues themselves telling these girls 'clean your plate' but simultaneously judging them for their weight. So these girls grow up to be women with an extremely dysfunctional relationship to food and beauty. If they felt like growing up they couldn't meet all these crazy standards, then as adults it isn't going to be easy for them to convince themselves they can make healthy and positive changes in their life. HAES people are delusional of course but their attitude didn't just spring out of nowhere. It was spawned from a culture that defines beauty fairly narrowly; much like how a person of color might reject beauty standards based on anglo features, a person that is a size 14 will reject beauty standards based on a size 0. We need to treat food addiction like drug addiction. It is hard, of course, since we need food to live. But I see the same patterns in both categories- addicts that hide their stash from people that would judge them, lying to others/themselves about the depth of their problem, using the substance/food as a source of comfort, and surrounding themselves with enablers. A lot of people have told me that treating drug addiction like a moral problem is a big mistake we've made in the war on drugs, if we treated these problems more like psychological problems we could probably make far more inroads in managing them. Panfilo fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 15, 2016 16:34
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KVeezy3 posted:I agree that obesity has more and more become a disease of the poor, but It's absurd to believe that ideal bodyweights are arbitrary. It's completely different from facial features, or hair types, because one discrimination is rooted entirely in superficiality and elitism, while the other is biologically toxic. Adipose tissue is a hormone secreting organ which an excess of leads to chronic low-grade inflammation, insulin resistance, heart disease, and cancer. It's not a coincidence that we feel disgust when we see abdominal fat when those are most linked to these afflictions. 70% of Americans are overweight; saying that the problem is people not accepting themselves is missing the symptom for the root problem. Tying their self-worth to weight doesn't motivate them to do something about it. When people are happy and self-confident they will take feedback much better than when they are depressed and delusional. Obesity is most definitely a class signifier especially when it comes to women and that in turn is a way for people to judge them on their worth. As is women are already under a disproportionate amount of scrutiny on their appearance, and it is far, far more cultural than  .
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Sep 15, 2016 17:32
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KVeezy3 posted:Preaching acceptance of different bodyweights is still tying self worth to bodyweight. It's just adding cognitive dissonance to the dish. When you tell people to be happy and self confident in their excessive bodyweight, you're telling them to ignore the warning signs of impending metabolic diseases. Its actually the opposite. You're assuming someone is expected to be happy and confident because of excess bodyweight, but I never said that. I also never said for them to ignore the warning signs of health problems either. I said that when people feel good about themselves, they are motivated to make positive changes. Falling back to concern trolling is a flimsy move. You, nor many people in this thread really care about people getting healthy. You just don't like the way fat people look. Its easier for you to complain about other people than to empathize with them. I feel bad for goons with young daughters, because they're gonna be pretty hosed up one way or another.
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Sep 15, 2016 17:55
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KVeezy3 posted:Fat people don't like how fat people look. No amount of delusion will bypass that fact. Disgust at excess bodyfat transcends all cultures and periods of time, maybe you should consider what that means rather than taking offense on behalf of all the little girls. If that were so true then social darwinism would sort the problem but again, the opposite is happening. It's an awful broad brush to be painting people with. Got any other No True Scotsman fallacies you want to share? 
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Sep 15, 2016 18:32
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NomChompsky posted:I see a ton of fat people in relationships and marriages so this can't be 100% true. It's a No True Scotsman fallacy. If nobody finds fat people attractive, then the only people in relationships with fat people are delusional or not really attracted to them.
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Sep 15, 2016 18:41
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Germstore posted:or settled. Explain BBW genre porn then. People are 'settling' with their porn watching habits too?
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Sep 15, 2016 18:51
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I like to imagine some of the trolls in this thread showing up to Tinder dates with calipers and a luggage scale to make sure the women meet their exacting standards 
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Sep 15, 2016 18:55
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Please immerse yourself in this displacement tank before we proceed.
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Sep 15, 2016 18:58
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KVeezy3 posted:You're on the side of someone who cites BBW porn as a victory for obesity. You claimed anybody in a relationship with a fat person was settling, because according to you, nobody, not even other fat people, find fat people desirable. I pointed out that if BBW porn exists then obviously some people do find it attractive, and if they find it attractive then they probably find fat people attractive as well.
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Sep 15, 2016 19:00
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Germstore posted:some people are hosed in the head. explain that video where asa akira is punching a dude in the balls so hard his dick has a going out of business sale all over her face. But that just comes back to the No True Scotsman fallacy where the only people that appear to be interested in something obviously have something wrong with them according to you.
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Sep 15, 2016 19:08
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NomChompsky posted:No, I'm on the side of common sense. Fat people piss you off and that's fine. Not everyone is 100% repulsed on first gaze by them though, and some people do have a fetish for it. People are extremely complicated and you're painting with very broad strokes my dude. Honestly I think the only thing some of these trolls find more disgusting then fat people is the controversial idea we should treat them like human beings and not just garbage.
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Sep 15, 2016 19:10
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Germstore posted:some people are attracted to extremely underweight people too- doesn't make it not abhorrent. So who gets to arbitrate what's acceptable? It's not like you can weigh someone in a photograph oe apply any objective rubric to determine too fat or too skinny.
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Sep 15, 2016 19:16
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Theophany posted:There are people who jerk off to all kinds of weird poo poo, doesn't mean that they'd indulge in it in reality. There are people who are attracted to a diverse amount of body types. Doesn't make them mentally ill.
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Sep 15, 2016 19:17
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Germstore posted:It's funny how the fatty invasion always comes in and acts like the thread is below their contempt, but then sticks around forever trying to convince us that fat is in fact beautiful (it's not). Nobody is trying to do that. Your mistake is in convincing yourself that because you don't find it desirable, nobody does and nobody should. There's more to the world than your angry bubble. KVeezy3 posted:Scientists you imbecile. There are people who get off on sado masochism, how does that fit in your Darwinism theory? Show me the app where I can get BMI information off photographs please. Again, dismissing anybody that disagrees with your worldview as mentally ill doesn't make you right.
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Sep 15, 2016 19:25
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Nobody in this thread bashing fat people sincerely cares for the persons well being. At best it's because of the strain on medical resources, but I don't see nearly as much contempt for mentally ill, drug addicts or poor people who also contribute to this strain. Blitter posted:This is weird. Is this regarding uh, porn content, or just general metrics for determining obesity? If it's the latter, well there are plenty of diagnostic criteria for determining if someone is overweight, or obese. Take ten women of equal bmi but different height race and body type and people, based on their own culture, will give wildly different guesses at who is overweight even if all ten turn out to be a healthy bmi.
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Sep 15, 2016 19:40
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Germstore posted:The thread may get gassed but that will not change the fact that in my heart I know and always will know, as all good people do, that fat is not beautiful. No doubt the flames of this thread will be quenched by the ichor of your cold, black heart.
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Sep 15, 2016 19:41
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rap music posted:wait lets look at the data: http://sexualitics.github.io/ They wouldn't by uploading it if there wasn't an audience.
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Sep 15, 2016 19:45
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Nobody has answered a few questions I've been asking about obesity. How are obese people treated in cultures where obesity is rare, like Japan or France? Do you believe wealth or academic success are also easily fixable like people talk about how easy it is to lose weight? Should we have the same contempt for the poor or under educated as you do for fat people? I mean "lol just work more if you're poor amirite?  "
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Sep 15, 2016 22:56
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If you look at maps of counties in the US that indicate median income and maps that indicate obesity rates you find that they overlap almost perfectly. If you want people to put down the fork give them a living wage, reasonable work hours, socialized health care and upward mobility.
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Sep 15, 2016 23:06
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Fat Shat Sings posted:I know when I'm sitting at home and can choose to eat ranch dressing covered pizza and an entire bag of doritos before washing it down with gamer fuel my first thought is "If only my socioeconomic situation were better I wouldn't be forced to eat this food which is more expensive than healthy food" You wouldn't be in that position in the first place. People with access to fresh produce and time to cook decent meals are going to eat healthier then people with a 7 eleven they rely on for groceries and two part time jobs they have to juggle.
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Sep 15, 2016 23:42
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Fat Shat Sings posted:i like how somehow society has flipped to the poorest of us somehow being the fattest Then how do you explain the correlation between poverty and obesity in the US? It's real cute that you sidestep the issue because it points out things many people have little control over.
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Sep 15, 2016 23:58
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There's also a strong relationship between obesity and the hours of sleep a person gets. Not coincidentally, poorer people get less sleep on average, particularly minorities.
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Sep 16, 2016 00:00
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ArbitraryC posted:I think the issue is individually the solution is obvious, eat less, move more and it's something the vast majority of people understand regardless of what wacky tweets and blogposts we can laugh at. But if it's such a simple thing, then why are so many people failing at it now and why has that number gone up so much in the past couple decades. I don't think we've all collectively evolved to be lazier with no willpower so there's probably some industrial and cultural explanations that contributed to the epidemic we have today. That's my point. The only way to reverse the problem of to tackle it on a national level. Telling heroin addicts to just put the needle down isn't going to have some profound change in drug habits, and havimg the same attitude about obesity won't either.
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Sep 16, 2016 00:25
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Germstore posted:despite having fast food and long hours and all the bullshit we have the japanese aren't fat because they're more collectivist so when the rest of society tells them to stop being lard asses they stop being lard asses instead of screaming "I eat what I want" and shoving another fried pie in their face. They're getting there. Many other countries are, see Britain and Mexico.
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Sep 16, 2016 00:37
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Germstore posted:No they aren't. They reversed course. They're obesity crisis is literally over. Britain is very culturally similar to the US and I assume Mexico learned it from watching us (and their soda is better). Japan had a comparatively smaller obesity problem to begin with , so fixing it is obviously going to be easier. They're also a culture of conformity, which makes it easier to get people to do things. There's less of a reliance on cars so people walk much more in general.
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Sep 16, 2016 01:33
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That Japanese Metabo Law that was mentioned upthread was interesting but the lengths the government had to go to actually enforce compliance was a bit  . While well intentioned I don't know how I feel about an employer mandating that my spouse/children get medical tests specifically designed to help the employer not have to pay the government money; it sets kind of dangerous precedent. I'm not surprised it was so effective over there. Needing to get your waistline under 33" or you're fired is probably a strong motivator. But having it happen in a country where obesity (even at its worst) is far lower than the US, in a conformist, homogenous nation with overall healthier cuisine and more people walking to work/school means they probably only really had to put pressure on the people that were statistical outliers. People are going to claim it would never work in the US because of whiny fatties and all that, but I mainly see the issue from a privacy angle; if your employer could mandate weight loss to that level, they'd have a precedent to mandate a lot of other things. As is, labor laws in most of the US are pretty lovely, and companies like Wal-Mart wouldn't hesitate to find hundreds more excuses to fire someone if they could mandate testing of an employee's family "Oh your kid got diagnosed with Leukemia? Well since our actuaries predict you're going to be a financial drain on the company and unable to keep your attendance regular we're just going to fire you now before it becomes an issue" I agree that more needs to be done to deal with obesity in the US, but my opinion is that we really need to deal with it on a macro scale. People won't stop doing heroin/trying it in the first place by shaming them/telling them to put the needle down, and along the same lines people are not just going to "put down the fork" because you tell them to or mock them for it.
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Sep 16, 2016 15:08
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The other goon that brought that up did it in response to a question I had about how other countries deal with obesity. It wasn't quite answering the question I asked; I meant more how do they deal with it socially. For example, in the US obesity is very common, fat people are an easy target because they are all over the place and it isn't hard for a goon to find a strawman fatty to base their horrible attitudes on. People also compare us to much thinner countries where they don't have as many fat people. So those thinner countries, like Japan (which I initially mentioned), France, or say, uh, Scandanavia in general (they seem pretty slender and blonde up there); they have a different lifestyle which keeps their weight a healthy level; they eat healthier and get better exercise and have at least two of the three (reasonable work hours, excellent health care, walkable cities). There's still going to be a few fat people, and I was wondering how they were treated in these other countries were obesity is rare. Are they mocked worse than fat people in the US, because its more unusual to be fat in those other places? Are they treated with more sympathy and respect? Are they pariahs? Even in the US I very rarely see Chinese/Japanese-American women that are fat (Filipinos are a different story). There's obviously cultural pressure not to be bigger if being fat isn't genetic as people claim. So what's happening here?
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Sep 16, 2016 15:19
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The Saurus posted:heroin doesn't make you fat though i don't get the comparison?? Food addiction is parallel to drug addiction. The things that don't work for one don't work for the other.
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Sep 16, 2016 15:20
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Blitter posted:This is kinda interesting! I was poking around looking for obesity stats for the US regarding ethnicity/income/etc, and I came across a CDC brief - NCHS Data Brief - Obesity and Socioeconomic Status in Adults: United States, 2005–2008. What I found was weirdly surprising, as follows: Cool, thanks for the data. I've heard anecdotes (though admittedly not data) about how in some cultures, like african american communities, where there is less of a stigma about women being heavier, and it is used to explain why african american women tend to be more obese as they get older (less social pressure to be thin). I've asked people about the pressures to be thinner in some cultures but haven't gotten very straight answers. I wasn't raised in chinese american household so I don't know what it is like for a girl in that household struggling with her weight, whether it is harder (because of being shamed into being the 'correct' weight) or easier (raised with better eating and exercise habits that make staying healthy second nature). Filipinos and pacific islanders in general seem to skew heavier as well, and we also see some racial groups far more prone to diabetes (even at the same level of obesity) as other races. So perhaps there is more of a genetic component than people give credit, though obviously its not as simplistic as "Gets fat no matter what".
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Sep 16, 2016 16:46
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What about the effects of having your blood sugar spike due to going from eating nothing to eating a huge meal? Then your pancreas has to make a lot of insulin to get it back down, storing it all into fat. If you eat a lot of little meals through the day you probably also feel a lot less hungry each time you eat, so you probably eat cumulatively less overall.
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Sep 16, 2016 17:06
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GORDON posted:I don't I'm in a depressed socioeconomic status so my body actually puts on weight when I eat less. What County do you live in?
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Sep 16, 2016 18:16
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Bum the Sad posted:I feel you though brother, I like to eat junk and I honestly think my metabolism is a little shittier than some. But what I do about it is I weight myself once a week when I'm on the dry side(dehydrated from drinking) and if I see I've gone up 5ish pounds I just dial back my diet. The way I like to eat honestly is not sustainable for my size and activity level, I like to have too many calories a day, so when I am at a good weight I usually spend 3 weeks of a month eating "normally" then a week fasting and that's just the sacrifice I have to make. I mean I could exercise but gently caress that/ Isn't this the fast track towards getting gallstones the size of golf balls? Something similar happened to one of my old roommates.
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Sep 16, 2016 18:26
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Bum the Sad posted:I don't know I'm not a bile expert, while diet can contribute to gall stones I'm banking on it being mostly luck/genetics. I heard some anecdotes that weight fluctuations can contribute. My mom used to crash diet a lot in her twenties and developed them.
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Sep 16, 2016 18:37
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Nostrum posted:Fat shaming is wrong but if you seriously believe that you'd gain weight by starving yourself you're just loving delusional. Nobody is claiming this. But it wouldn't surprise me to find statistics that show starving yourself leads to less sustainable weight loss. Eating nothing for 14 hours straight is going to make a person more prone to overeating. Having weight rebound also tends to cause the person to end up at a higher weight than when they started. Starvation isn't healthy.
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Sep 16, 2016 20:57
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Germstore posted:The mantra for fat thread is "self reported calorie counts are always bogus." As are self reported workout regimens.
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Sep 16, 2016 22:05
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Poetic Justice posted:if obesity is based on income like a lot of people are saying in here, how come homeless people aren't all really fat???? Actually I see quite a fair share of severely overweight homeless people. In their case, it's due to having a terrible diet and /or mental illness. People living on the borderline of homelessness also seldom have access to a kitchen. Earlier some goons were complaining about how people don't know how to cook. Kinda hard if you don't have access to anything more sophisticated then a mini fridge and a microwave.
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Sep 19, 2016 12:36
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If obesity is purely a moral failing, are you suggesting that black women, who I believe have the highest rates of obesity in their demographic , are simply lazier? Is that going to be your explanation for comparatively higher unemployment and conviction rates as well?
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Sep 19, 2016 21:26
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I still want some people here own up to the fact that if you are going to make a blanket claim that obesity is purely a willpower issue, not a genetic, economic, or racial issue then by your logic people of a particular race or gender must be lazier right ? People have certainly beat this drum to explain concentrations of poverty and incarceration. They argued being poor and going to prison are 100% preventable. Since the claim here is that being fat is not only completely preventable, the fat person has total agency over their choices and chooses to shirk an easy alternative in the form of a healthy lifestyle. I guess that means you're going to hold poor, unemployed and undereducated people to the same standard?
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Sep 19, 2016 22:57
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I think people bash fat people to feel better about being poors.
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Sep 19, 2016 23:15
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