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mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull

kastein posted:

... and times when it's just silly to consider it unless it's your day job.

And we reach the point where I'm questioning the wisdom of my research on dry sump poo poo for a 13B. ;)

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NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


That's what I'm thinking. Even with the abundance of cheap used pumps on ebay "nascar dry sump" turns up some great poo poo I think I may go ahead with the RED kit. Plenty of tanks and lines on ebay for decent prices and I have some hoses and connections already. I'd maybe save a couple hundred if I pieced something together myself but I've never messed with this stuff and I'd rather try it on a cheap m10/m20 than this thing.

I'll see what kind of lead time their kit has and what size tank, hoses, etc they recommend. Would be really nice if the fittings were same size as my oil cooler, need to see if I should still run a thermostat on the oil loop. This is going to be a plumbing mess.


Do want to try the m42 mounts though just to see if by some really strange chance they work. Don't see how they could but hey I already have them so why not.

NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 28, 2016

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Direct links to scanned adjustable sway bars:
http://i.imgur.com/MftxWZ9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mcRidMf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/REw6eYM.jpg

Highest resolution the scanner here could do, hope that works for you. I can take some better pictures of the actual bars if you'd like.


Still waiting to hear back on price for the Dailey sump, also emailing Armstrong Race Engineering (drysump.com if I can ever get their horrible website to load) for pictures of their pan and prices. RED has several in stock and can ship once they receive payment.


edit: emailed drysump, turns out my computer just hates their website. Phone loads it fine...wtf

NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Sep 29, 2016

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Sent an email to DMRR for more information, they sell in the US through Aviaid which is a big supplier of pump. Sent a further email to Aviaid for more info and prices. For now some pics of the DMRR pan and kit parts from Ireland.



http://aviaid.com/pdfs/032-dry-sump...es-fittings.pdf

Good news is it looks like I should have a few options

NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Sep 29, 2016

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Another pretty productive day. Started with taking the E28 to cars and coffee, parked next to a friends nice 6 series shark then got some fancy ethanol free gas on the way home.


Finished the valve retainers, new valve cover gasket and spark plug seals. Had to zip tie things so the rockers would stay out of the way long enough to bolt things down. Good news is none of my retainers were cracked and I managed the whole job without losing any of the new keepers.



Had to clearance the tool I picked up a bit so it would fit without removing the intake manifold. Not pretty at all but it worked.


For anyone interested here's the difference between the ap1 and ap2 parts, in all photos it's ap1 left ap2 right. Sorry my phone is garbage at taking pictures of small stuff.



We tried the CAtuned method using m42 mounts. Not stock/oem because they're $100 a piece and the same height as these Condor mounts. It's drat close to working but it won't. The hood fits but only because this is a thin composite one. The steering rack would need to be moved back at least a full inch if this was going to work. The stock exhaust also runs into one of the control arm points. For photos with the rack in the spacers that raise it 3/8" or so are gone and it's loose to move a bit. We tried different spacing and rotations of the mounts but no luck. Oh well can't say we didn't try it.




I was really hoping this would work but the rack is just too large and forward. I may end up using the m42 mounts but slightly modified to sit things lower. With that done we stuck the engine back on the stand and flipped it over so I can do the oil squirters tomorrow and probably remove the stock oil pump stuff.


Dogs 'helped'


I'm waiting to hear back from the US distributor for DMRR on pricing and kit contents, once that's done I'll make my decision. At this point the R.E.D pan and kit look like they will work the best and are the most affordable option. Dry sump will give me the most flexibility for where to put the engine and has the least risk of screwing up the handling of this thing.

I've also put in a low ball offer on a set of ITBs because race car!

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
Just make sure to do the math and make a spreadsheet for every part, fitting, length of hose, tanks, catch cans, etc before you make a decision. The cheapest pan and pump might not work out that way.

jamal fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Oct 2, 2016

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


jamal posted:

Just make sure to do the math and make a spreadsheet for every part, fitting, length of hose, tanks, catch cans, etc before you make a decision. The cheapest pan and pump might not work out that way.

One upside I guess is all the kits are largely just a pan, pump, pulleys and lines to go from the pan to pump. The dry sump (ARE) kit is everything but their pan is nearly as deep as the OEM one, I may source other parts through them though. I'll probably eventually post a comparison of the various kits including what's included, price and options.

Need to decide if it's worth putting the tank all the way in the trunk for better weight distribution at the expense of longer lines or if I go with an engine bay or passenger tank.

Won't be ordering anything for a bit though. Out of town next week and don't really want 3-4k worth of stuff sitting on the front porch.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull

NitroSpazzz posted:

Need to decide if it's worth putting the tank all the way in the trunk for better weight distribution at the expense of longer lines or if I go with an engine bay or passenger tank.

The *exact* answer is going to depend on corner weights and stuff, but the usual answer is "around where the passenger seat would be". Means you have to build an aluminum box around it, but I've never seen a production based race car where it *isn't* a struggle to move enough crap to the passenger side to help the corner weights.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Working on getting a set of scales to borrow for a while to figure out placement of things. Oil filter relocation kit showed up yesterday, picked up a blemished ATI damper to make mounting the dry sump pulley easy. Got a quote back from Aviaid on the DMRR pan and it is very competitively priced with the RED pan. Working out some final details then probably ordering a pan, pump, bracket, pulleys and belts by the end of the week. There's a few nice tanks on ebay that I'm looking at, will probably pick one by the end of the week.


On a completely different subject this car needs some lights if I'm going to be able to drive it on the street. Just the basic headlights (hi/lo) and taillights (brake/blinker/hazards) so I've contacted a few people parting out cars about getting their lights. The question now is do I take a factory chassis harness and strip it down to what I need or do I make my own harness from scratch? I don't remember seeing a blinker/headlight stalk in the parts boxes but I may pick one up. Otherwise all controls will be on a basic fused switch panel.


edit: just realized we have several e30 part cars sitting in WI to pull parts as needed for our Chump/WRL car and I'm headed up there next week. I'll just take lights and possibly a harness from one of those.


second edit: I have an oil filter relocation kit and a big rear end oil cooler but no thermostat for the oil loop. Do I pick up a basic oil thermostat or do I try to find a filter relocation with a built in thermostat? Filter mount on the thermostat would clean up plumbing a bit and cut down on hose/fitting costs as well as lead to a cleaner overall install.

NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Oct 4, 2016

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Mini update: replaced the oil squirters then started looked at removing the factory oil pump.

Start with this, remove the baffle dropping a bolt into an oil passage


Go pick up retrieval tools to get the bolt without puling the valve cover back off and for


Put paper towels in the oil passages like I should have the first time


Once that's off and the lost bolt removed replace the oil squirter bolts with the upgraded AP2 units. All easy except for the one under the oil pump. I could have waited until I pulled the pump but I wanted to get these knocked out.


AP1 left/top, AP2 right/bottom


Need to remove the stock pump but can't get the rank/damper bolt out. Really tempted to just cut the chain and remove the tensioners using a wrench or something. Don't really feel like pulling the whole lower timing cover if I can avoid it.

Waiting on final quote for the DMRR and the RED sump kits. Going with a 3 gallon tank from eBay, can get a big tank with heater bands and possibly a breather tank for the price I'd pay for a 2 gallon tank new.

I'm trying to figure out minimum switch panel buttons. I'm using the stock E30 blinker/high beam stalk. Everything will go through a master power switch then on the panel I'm thinking the following:
Ignition - power to ECU
Start button - because racecar
Lights
Oil heat - want to have tank heaters automatically come on if the engine is running and oil temp is under say 160F or so but this would override, warm things up before heading out
Defrost/Defog - no heater core but I'll run some form of heated defrost/defog for the wind sheild
Auxiliary Fan - auto on at water temp over a certain point but want it switched as well
2x or more Switch auxiliary - for things like gopro, lap timer and cool suit

NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Oct 9, 2016

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
Most tank heaters are designed to run off 110V AC, FYI. Too much wattage for batteries - it's a "do in the pits" sort of thing.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


mekilljoydammit posted:

Most tank heaters are designed to run off 110V AC, FYI. Too much wattage for batteries - it's a "do in the pits" sort of thing.

Wow I'm an idiot, I saw 110v and didn't make the connection. Guess that's one less switch and wiring to worry about. A little more reading and it looks like the probe type work a lot faster than the blanket and are cheap, makes finding a tank with one already installed less of a worry.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Pulled the factory oil pump this morning then test fitted brakes this evening. Thought I tossed an update out this morning but guess not so...

Couldn't find my bolt cutters and my other snips wouldn't do it. Filled the area with shop towels and hard drive magnets then used a cut-off wheel on the dremel. Through in ~10 seconds with minimal mess and fuss. Cleaned the area with a magnet then oily rag. Will do another oil splash and clean with the engine upright before putting things together. Ready for dry sump



Then I did some test fitting on the brakes. Found out I have super long studs which is kind of nice and glad I did this before ordering a set. The caliper fits the 17" wheels with plenty of space and the 16" (OEM E28 M5) with enough clearance to work with spacers.


Need to look at the options for 16" vs 17" race rubber and final weight.

Still waiting on final quotes from RED and DMRR/Aviaid. Headed to Road America this weekend for some Chump Car racing.

NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Oct 12, 2016

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
I'd come spectate, but I'm trying to get back to casting stuff.

16" race tire availability kinda sucks. Hoosier does some DOTs but the slicks for 16" wheels are pretty much all geared towards GT2/GT1 monsters - way more tire than you need. Any other tire manufacturer is going to be even worse.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


That's what I'm finding, Hoosier R6 is a 275 width 16 which won't fit. There's more used 17" wheels floating around too so I'll probably go that way. Initially I'll probably run a set of Star Specs then once I wear those out go with proper slicks.

Also can I say mekilljoydammit thanks for all the informative posts so far. I've been driving on track HPDE and more recently Chump/WRL for 14 years but nothing at the level this car is going to be...lots of learning as I go.

Crustashio
Jul 27, 2000

ruh roh
Don't even bother with 16", the options are basically non existent and most manufacturers have moved to 15" and 17".

R7s, 225/45/17 or 245/40/17. Try to get your hands on some used/heat cycled ones to test fit. The 17" A7/R7 carcass runs extremely wide, like 20mm over sidewall size.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


There's a few guys in the area (within an hour) I should be able to borrow wheels and tires from for test fitting. Good to know they run wide. I'll pull the fender liner for more clearance but don't want to roll/pull the fenders if I don't have to.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull

NitroSpazzz posted:

That's what I'm finding, Hoosier R6 is a 275 width 16 which won't fit. There's more used 17" wheels floating around too so I'll probably go that way. Initially I'll probably run a set of Star Specs then once I wear those out go with proper slicks.

Also can I say mekilljoydammit thanks for all the informative posts so far. I've been driving on track HPDE and more recently Chump/WRL for 14 years but nothing at the level this car is going to be...lots of learning as I go.

Hey, happy to help - I've basically been planning how to move to more and more professional versions of the stuff I'm doing for the last 15 years, so I just have a head start. ;)

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
Is that oil pump chain guide that sticks out going to be an issue with the new pan?

Did you ever get a price on the dailey pan/pump?

Also buy an engine stand already.

jamal fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Oct 13, 2016

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


jamal posted:

Is that oil pump chain guide that sticks out going to be an issue with the new pan?

Did you ever get a price on the dailey pan/pump?

Also buy an engine stand already.
It shouldn't be but if it is that will be easy enough to shave down. Engine has been on a stand for all the pan work as well as valve retainers. Bought it when I bought the hoist



The Dailey pan/pump is $4425 plus shipping and includes billet alloy pan, oil pump with air separator, spacer plate, 2 Belts, pulleys and crank damper pulley ATI. It looks amazing but this is over twice the DMRR and RED pans.

The ARE drysump kit was $3843 with pan, pump, damper, brackets, pulleys/belt, tank and vent. However most reviews I found of it ranged from mediocre at best to complete garbage.

RED is 1500 UK before shipping. Includes pan, pump, pulley and belt.

Initial quote for DMRR was $3800 which included pump, pan, pulley, belt, ATI damper, tank, vent tank and oil relocation kit.

NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Oct 13, 2016

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002
jesus christ


i started exploring some of the swaps that miata guys are doing and the LFX swaps really look like they're a great bargain, especially compared to the cost of the honda swaps.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
The LFX swap is neat and all, but the trans gear ratios just don't do it for me... that and I hate the idea of being married to factory wiring/ECUs and stuff. Go go gadget why-won't-it-loving-run!? And questions of where you'd roadrace it, but I probably worry about that more than most.

NitroSpazzz, you ever make it up to spectate at the June Sprints or anything?

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire

NitroSpazzz posted:


The Dailey pan/pump is $4425 plus shipping and includes billet alloy pan, oil pump with air separator, spacer plate, 2 Belts, pulleys and crank damper pulley ATI. It looks amazing but this is over twice the DMRR and RED pans.

Ha, holy poo poo.

And yeah sorry with the things that fell in the engine and worry about getting metal shavings in the block while cutting the chain I thought you had it sitting on a tire or something.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


BraveUlysses posted:

i started exploring some of the swaps that miata guys are doing and the LFX swaps really look like they're a great bargain, especially compared to the cost of the honda swaps.
LSx offers very good power and performance for the price, no denying that. I've driven a ls swapped e30 and it was a blast.

mekilljoydammit posted:

NitroSpazzz, you ever make it up to spectate at the June Sprints or anything?
I haven't but I'd like to, I've been out of the loop other than WRL lately but with this car that should change a bit. I'll mostly be doing events in the South East though. May bring it up for the occasional BIR/RA event.

jamal posted:

Ha, holy poo poo.

And yeah sorry with the things that fell in the engine and worry about getting metal shavings in the block while cutting the chain I thought you had it sitting on a tire or something.
It's barely a step up from sitting on a tire but works pretty well.


Was going to post my dry sump comparison excel yesterday when I was waiting for my flight but airport WiFi sucks and I can't get a decent screenshot on my phone.

Chilly morning in Wisconsin but it isn't snowing so we're doing better than previous races here.

Suburban Dad
Jan 10, 2007


Well what's attached to a leash that it made itself?
The punchline is the way that you've been fuckin' yourself




NitroSpazzz posted:

LSx offers very good power and performance for the price, no denying that. I've driven a ls swapped e30 and it was a blast.

He's talking about swapping in camaro v6's in there. 300hp without track issues that turbos seem to have with miatas.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull

NitroSpazzz posted:

I haven't but I'd like to, I've been out of the loop other than WRL lately but with this car that should change a bit. I'll mostly be doing events in the South East though. May bring it up for the occasional BIR/RA event.

Oh, duh, with the RA talk, I didn't twig that you're not actually local. This is past the end of the season for me; just drained the MX-5's water last night, and none-too-soon given the bit of a freeze last night. Well, I'm crewing for my dad (and maybe racing soon myself) at a lot of Midwestern Council or SCCA Regional races at RA or Blackhawk (and usually spectating at the June Sprints and the big vintage race at RA) so I'll run into you if I do.

Larrymer posted:

He's talking about swapping in camaro v6's in there. 300hp without track issues that turbos have.

FTFY. Although I don't think that there's enough of a knowledge base yet to say what issues the LFX does and doesn't have on track. All depends on if GM anticipated someone ever taking a V6 Camaro on track, and I wouldn't put money on it.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Larrymer posted:

He's talking about swapping in camaro v6's in there. 300hp without track issues that turbos seem to have with miatas.
Ah I wasn't sure if it was a typo or an engine I wasn't familiar with. Seems like it could be a another good option if they do hold up well to track use.


mekilljoydammit posted:

Oh, duh, with the RA talk, I didn't twig that you're not actually local. This is past the end of the season for me; just drained the MX-5's water last night, and none-too-soon given the bit of a freeze last night. Well, I'm crewing for my dad (and maybe racing soon myself) at a lot of Midwestern Council or SCCA Regional races at RA or Blackhawk (and usually spectating at the June Sprints and the big vintage race at RA) so I'll run into you if I do.
Grew up semi local to Road America and may end up back here in a few years but for now TN is home.

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002
Well the LFx is catching on with the Miata guys, v8roadsters is now offering swap kits and there are a few swapped cars on YouTube if you look around.

They are lighter than the 1.8 bp when all is said and done, 300hp, rev to 7200.

1200-1400 bucks for the motor and a grand for the transmission, they feature lightweight exhaust manifolds for easy exhaust routing.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
Sure, and I follow a couple people working on swaps for stuff that will see race track use too. They full well acknowledge that it's unknown what issues will crop up, but yeah, there's some factors that make it an interesting swap, I guess.

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002
I figure the price is cheap enough to give it a try and see how well it holds up :mrwhite:

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


BraveUlysses posted:

Well the LFx is catching on with the Miata guys, v8roadsters is now offering swap kits and there are a few swapped cars on YouTube if you look around.

They are lighter than the 1.8 bp when all is said and done, 300hp, rev to 7200.

1200-1400 bucks for the motor and a grand for the transmission, they feature lightweight exhaust manifolds for easy exhaust routing.
Oh sure now I find out about this, you're killing me man. Na I've looked at a few other options and for some reason I'm sticking with this one despite :homebrew::homebrew::homebrew:

Good day at the track and matched my previous best lap time here within a few laps, should be able to shave a half second or so off pretty easy tomorrow. 70+ cars starting, I'm first driver. Since we're selling off the car and everything else at the end of the season I'll be able to pick up some general setup stuff and parts for cheap.

Here's the spreadsheet I attempted to upload on the lovely Atlanta airport wifi for 45 minutes yesterday...

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
What was your time?

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





BraveUlysses posted:

Well the LFx is catching on with the Miata guys, v8roadsters is now offering swap kits and there are a few swapped cars on YouTube if you look around.

They are lighter than the 1.8 bp when all is said and done, 300hp, rev to 7200.

1200-1400 bucks for the motor and a grand for the transmission, they feature lightweight exhaust manifolds for easy exhaust routing.

They're working on a kit for the RX8 too.

Blown motor RX8 + LFX, now that could be a dirt cheap fun car.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

IOwnCalculus posted:

Blown motor RX8
So "an RX8" then.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


mekilljoydammit posted:

What was your time?
2:59.75 according to the Aim Solo timer, not sure what it was before because we didn't record it beyond 2:59.

Brakes felt a little soft most of the day but I didn't think much of it since they were nearly shot and we were burning up old tires then we found this at the end of the day. We all (5 of us) did two half hour sessions on this pad in backwards on the front inside passenger corner.



IOwnCalculus posted:

They're working on a kit for the RX8 too.

Blown motor RX8 + LFX, now that could be a dirt cheap fun car.
RX8 with this or a LSx would be a great cheap track car. There's certainly plenty of blown RX8's around for cheap


Edit: new lap record for our car at Road America running the bend (they don't trust chump with the kink) 2:57.804. Not bad for an ugly e30 in traffic

NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Oct 15, 2016

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。

BraveUlysses posted:

jesus christ


i started exploring some of the swaps that miata guys are doing and the LFX swaps really look like they're a great bargain, especially compared to the cost of the honda swaps.

e: i misread LFX as LFA, nm

I don't see anything on MT about it, and that's where the fast Miata guys are. There's always the Ecotec!!!! (nooooooooooo)

Phone fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Oct 15, 2016

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull

Phone posted:

e: i misread LFX as LFA, nm

I don't see anything on MT about it, and that's where the fast Miata guys are. There's always the Ecotec!!!! (nooooooooooo)

Check the engine performance section, ThePass is doing one.

MT is an interesting thing. There's a lot of technical expertise there, but I feel like there's a lot of "big fish in a little pond" going on. When the fastest turbo Miata lap at Laguna Seca I've found (Bob Bundy's big turbo car) is about part with Matt Reynold's EProd Miata it makes me scratch my head a bit. And yes, I full well admit it's getting into a dick measuring contest with someone else's dick when I'm nowhere near as fast as either, but still.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


So we had an issue with the car about 15 minutes from the end of the race...we're not racing tomorrow.





Valve snapped of clean at the retainer and likely made one hell of a mess of cylinder three.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
Ow. Well that sucks.

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Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。

mekilljoydammit posted:

Check the engine performance section, ThePass is doing one.

MT is an interesting thing. There's a lot of technical expertise there, but I feel like there's a lot of "big fish in a little pond" going on. When the fastest turbo Miata lap at Laguna Seca I've found (Bob Bundy's big turbo car) is about part with Matt Reynold's EProd Miata it makes me scratch my head a bit. And yes, I full well admit it's getting into a dick measuring contest with someone else's dick when I'm nowhere near as fast as either, but still.

With MT you just gotta pray that someone knowledgeable swings in and that Vlad/18psi doesn't find the thread.

It's kind of hilarious now that half of the forum is NA and they're faster because of it.

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