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mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull

Phone posted:

With MT you just gotta pray that someone knowledgeable swings in and that Vlad/18psi doesn't find the thread.

It's kind of hilarious now that half of the forum is NA and they're faster because of it.

I've gotten decent at sifting out poo poo from actual facts on internet forums by now. ;)

... and there's a reason I'm building a rotary Miata instead of a turbo one. Well, a lot of reasons.

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BlackMK4
Aug 23, 2006

wat.
Megamarm

mekilljoydammit posted:

I've gotten decent at sifting out poo poo from actual facts on internet forums by now. ;)

... and there's a reason I'm building a rotary Miata instead of a turbo one. Well, a lot of reasons.

So where is the build thread on this?

charliemonster42
Sep 14, 2005

mekilljoydammit posted:

I've gotten decent at sifting out poo poo from actual facts on internet forums by now. ;)

... and there's a reason I'm building a rotary Miata instead of a turbo one. Well, a lot of reasons.

It can be like digging through mountains of poo poo looking for the pieces of corn.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull

BlackMK4 posted:

So where is the build thread on this?

A couple pages down; I'll bump it in the next few days if I get progress on the rotary flowbench adapter done. There's not a hell of a lot in it yet because I've been delayed by having homeowner poo poo to take care of. And should probably have it renamed from it's more generic rotary engine title to one about rotary miatas, but the project changed from "I'm not sure" to "I'm doing this!" partway through.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Little mid week update. Put in the order for a dry sump kit (pump, pan, pulleys, etc) still watching ebay for a tank. Did a few quick things on the car while having a cigar in the garage and bullshitting with my brother.

First order of business: this is the oil supply from the OEM pump, I need to figure out a good way to block it off. I'd prefer not to drill and tap the block if I could avoid it so I'm thinking of having a plug machined. Interference fit then stick the thing in the freezer or dry ice for a few hours so it pops in easily.


I'll probably also need to trim this as someone pointed out earlier. Shouldn't be an issue as it's just plastic. Shot shows up much it sticks up, definitely going to be in the way when I go to install the pan.


Removed the factory oil cooler and filter mount. I was hoping the hose would reach but no luck, I'll find something at the parts store and loop it. I could block it off on both ends for a bit cleaner bay but I need to make sure that isn't going to be detrimental to coolant flow.


Installed (loosely) the oil relocation adapter. I need to verify which direction this needs to face and find a torque value. This has an additional feel for I'm guessing a turbo that I'll either plug or use for monitoring oil pressure.


Tried again to remove the notoriously stubborn crank bolt...no luck. Even with my fancy heavy impact socket it didn't budge. I doused it in break free and will continue to do so.


Also test fit the S2000 radiator. It got smashed a little on the drivers side which made it slip into place pretty nicely. The oil cooler will mount below and intfront of it.




mekilljoydammit posted:

A couple pages down; I'll bump it in the next few days if I get progress on the rotary flowbench adapter done. There's not a hell of a lot in it yet because I've been delayed by having homeowner poo poo to take care of. And should probably have it renamed from it's more generic rotary engine title to one about rotary miatas, but the project changed from "I'm not sure" to "I'm doing this!" partway through.
Found the thread, that is going to be one hell of a car. I really thought about going rotary but they're just kind of unknown and I have no experience with them.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Small interruption in the E30 for some E21 content. 1977 320i with the M10, originally a 4-speed. It's been in the family since 1978 other than a couple years when a neighbor owned it. I drove it in high school a bit then after I moved to TN bought it from my cousin in CA and drove it back to WI (to drop off Dad) then to TN.

Last winter I put in the full Ground Control kit, header, new exhaust, 5-speed, full poly bushings, bigger brakes and probably a few more things I'm forgetting. This spring I had some things that needed to be done I didn't want to dick with: header to exhaust welding, battery relocation, new windshield, rear strut brace and some other stuff. That got stretched out due to lovely work by the place they sent it for fab work then further stretched by the brakes suddenly not working.

Yesterday I towed it home then spent today working on various things. First was the brakes. Front is 1977 320i/323i vented rotors with Volvo 240 calipers. Rear is VW mk1 rabbit front rotors with VW mk4 rear calipers and an adapter from classicdaily.net. Also running a BMW E12 master cylinder for a bit more fluid volume. The issue was no pedal until the very end of travel, shop tried various master cylinders, bled it 100 times and a bunch of other crap...everyone was stumped. I started with a lazy flush - suck old fluid from reservoir, fill with new then use pressure bleeder and push the new stuff through.


Much to my surprise this fixed it, brakes work amazing. So I have no clue wtf the shop was doing wrong. Fair amount of air trapped in the passenger rear and passenger front outer. I had taken the rear spacers off to initially tow the car to the shop when it was on old narrow rubber. It looks like my new rubber needs the spacers. These spacers are correct size for front but wider than I need for the rear and get pretty close to the fender


That fixed I fixed the 2k rpm idle then fed it some seafoam. Seafoam highlighted the massive exhaust leak where the header meets the rest of the exhaust.


Then I took it for a nice drive. Car is just as fun as I remember but handles even better now even though I still need to actually setup the suspension. It's going to be a lot of fun in the mountains and on track even with the wheezy m10. One thing I need to figure out is the camber plates, they're nice but I don't have nearly as much adjust-ability as I'd like. E30/E21 likes to run a ton of front camber not the less than one degree I'm getting now. Either way the bolts hit the strut tower. Starting to think I might have to notch it.

edit: sent an email to GC but also remembered these are camber/caster, if I loosen the caster adjustment I will get a little more camber range

Some pictures of the work that delayed this thing for so long. Header and exhaust weren't made to work together but both work with the chassis, he needed to make them work then hang it. Battery box is beautiful but wrong side, barely held down and not for the small/light battery I'm going to use. Strut tower brace...well some paint or something so it doesn't rust would be nice. The battery relocation wiring was also garbage in the engine bay but the shop fixed that.


The dogs helped as usual


Cars & Coffee tomorrow so gave the 928 a quick bath and got some for sale signs for it. Goal is have the E21 road ready by the first weekend in November for the bi-annual BMW meet in the Smoky Mountains.

NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Oct 22, 2016

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
The actual factory tool plus a big rear end breaker bar is probably going to be your best bet for that crank pulley.

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:

charliemonster42 posted:

It can be like digging through mountains of poo poo looking for the pieces of corn.

Vote for Corn in the fridge's name to be changed to 'corn in the poo poo'

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
I'm not familiar with that motor at all, but I thought most drysump setups put the oil into the block through the same spot the factory pump does, just passed through the machined sump from an AN fitting on the outside.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


jamal posted:

The actual factory tool plus a big rear end breaker bar is probably going to be your best bet for that crank pulley.
One should be here today or tomorrow, I'll need it for torquing the bolt back down to spec anyway. Three minutes (timed it) with the electric impact and the heavy socket didn't budge the thing...did heat the bolt, socket and impact up a fair amount though.

kastein posted:

I'm not familiar with that motor at all, but I thought most drysump setups put the oil into the block through the same spot the factory pump does, just passed through the machined sump from an AN fitting on the outside.
That could be the case on some dry sump applications, especially larger engines, but on these and most engines I've seen it's supplied into the oil filter port. Since the factory pump pushes the oil directly from the pan to the filter it's an easy way to do it with a remote filter mount. I'm going to talk to the people that design the pan and see if it's required to block off the old hole or if I can leave it.

They're putting together my order, no shipping/billing confirmation yet. Last night played with the radiator a bit, stuck the impact on the crank bolt for three minutes then properly hung the exhaust on the E21. May register the E21 after work today then start putting some miles on it. Would be good to have some test miles completed before I head to the mountains for a long weekend and put on ~400 miles.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Progress on crank bolt removal can be summarized by this picture:

I might have to retake it with me giving it the finger. That's a 3/4" to 1/2" reducer, not some wimpy 1/2 to 3/8 junk.

Placed order for sump kit on the 20th or 21st, was supposed to ship yesterday but I haven't been billed so I don't think it got out yet.


From http://www.speedhunters.com/2016/10/improving-legend-modern-e30-m3-rally-car/ their mounting for the dry sump gave me some ideas. Issue is height isn't that much in the trunk, now I don't think they did but I could potentially have part of the tank stick through the floor as long as it is protected.

Link is worth checking if you haven't for E30 M3 porn and one hell of a clean build



E21 is registered, washed and almost ready for the E30 meet next weekend. Exhaust still leaks all over but it's hung and the fumes don't get into the cabin so it isn't a huge deal to get fixed before then.

NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Oct 29, 2016

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!




Progress continues...

after this weekends BMW meet in the mountains

Kaptainballistik
Nov 2, 2005

Why ask me ? I cant understand me either!
For blocking pickups I would still tap in a plug. Oil gallery plugs like walking loose.

(Fill hole with grease, tap, remove grease and metal shavings, put plug in with loctite... Sorted)

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


I've been talking with the company that makes the pan and they said most people don't bother blocking it. There's no need to and if needed you can stick a vacuum limiter (or whatever) on that port of the oil relocation fitting so you don't pull too much vacuum.

Still no sign of parts shipped, sending an email but headed out of town in a couple hours. So much for ordering through a company in the US to save shipping time.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Work/life/etc has been nuts so haven't had much time to work on this thing. Attempted to take the 320i to the mountains last weekend until some technical difficulties stopped me a couple miles from the house.


Mini update because a package arrived today. They didn't have the pump mount plate in stock so were waiting on one to arrive from overseas. They went ahead and shipped the other stuff so I could start figuring out engine mounting.










I may get some time to work on this weekend but I'm not counting on making a lot of progress. Looking at the pan and pulley in person confirmed two things that I was wondering about. I'm going to have to shave down the timing chain tensioner plastic where it sticks down below the gear. I need to find a crank bolt with a shorter head. I had a feeling this would be the case for both and having the parts in hand confirmed it.

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
Since you have the crank pulley off just pull the cover and take off the guides? It's weight savings!

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


I think this one is for the timing chain but I need to verify. Either way unless I can get a wrench in there again like I did for the other one it will be easier shaving it down. Pulling off the timing chain cover is easy but getting it to seal properly when you put it back together is a pain.

Looks like it's just a oil pump chain guide, yup should probably get that out of there. One less thing to break and weight reduction.

NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Nov 10, 2016

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Been able to get a few minutes here and there on the engine. Pulled the timing cover and removed the chain guide then stuck everything back together and did a test fit of the dry sump pan. Just going to dump things in roughly order. Honda bond gasket stuff is messy as hell and I didn't want to waste it so no photos of that. Need to swing by Fastenal tomorrow to pick up shorter oil pan bolts, M6-1.0 x 30mm should be good. Assuming they have them in stock I should be able to toss the pan on tomorrow.







I'll have to make something to block debris from getting in the flywheel since this pan doesn't cover it. Going to see if I can find another can of Honda bond locally, would suck to run out halfway through the pan.

Still working on finding a shorter bolt, may end up cutting this one down. No reply from Aviaid on this yet. I talked to DMRR and they use a completely different pulley mount, theirs uses the OEM damper and the OEM bolt with the washer cut off. A LOT cheaper, more tested and less stuff to mess around with. Might look at returning the pulley mount and ATi damper I have then going with the DMRR mount.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
Not sure if the F20C has this issue, but I know on my EF12, the timing chain guide actually has oil passages in it and is supplied off the end of an oil gallery, so double check that you don't have any wide-open oil gallery ends sticking out of the end of the block after removing some of the chain guides...

Raluek
Nov 3, 2006

WUT.

NitroSpazzz posted:

Fastenal [metric] in stock

Yeah, good luck. Despite their name, I haven't had much luck finding anything oddball or metric there without having it shipped from another location (for which they will charge you extra). Their website is at least moderately decent at predicting what they'll have in stock, though.

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
They'll have socket caps, possibly even in stainless. Flanged head unlikely, I was just driving around looking for some of those last week.

The Door Frame
Dec 5, 2011

I don't know man everytime I go to the gym here there are like two huge dudes with raging high and tights snorting Nitro-tech off of each other's rock hard abs.
Good to know that I'm not the only one who can't find flanged metric bolts for whatever loving reason. Why is shipping on 3 bolts $8 for "Expedited" and why does expedited shipping take an estimated 2 and a half weeks?

Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.

Pillbug

The Door Frame posted:

Good to know that I'm not the only one who can't find flanged metric bolts for whatever loving reason. Why is shipping on 3 bolts $8 for "Expedited" and why does expedited shipping take an estimated 2 and a half weeks?

Try Belmetric. I love 'em.

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire

The Door Frame posted:

Good to know that I'm not the only one who can't find flanged metric bolts for whatever loving reason. Why is shipping on 3 bolts $8 for "Expedited" and why does expedited shipping take an estimated 2 and a half weeks?

Mcmaster has a decent selection and they are pretty quick with shipping if you have an account.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


kastein posted:

Not sure if the F20C has this issue, but I know on my EF12, the timing chain guide actually has oil passages in it and is supplied off the end of an oil gallery, so double check that you don't have any wide-open oil gallery ends sticking out of the end of the block after removing some of the chain guides...
Timing chain guides were left on, oil pump chain guide was removed so I should be ok there.

Raluek posted:

Yeah, good luck. Despite their name, I haven't had much luck finding anything oddball or metric there without having it shipped from another location (for which they will charge you extra). Their website is at least moderately decent at predicting what they'll have in stock, though.
Yeah on second thought I remember running all over town from various Fastenal locations a couple months ago trying to find flanged.

Seat Safety Switch posted:

Try Belmetric. I love 'em.
Bookmarked for larger orders.

jamal posted:

Mcmaster has a decent selection and they are pretty quick with shipping if you have an account.
Ordered from these guys, forgot I made an account and got a ton of hardware from them for the E21 project.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.

Raluek posted:

Yeah, good luck. Despite their name, I haven't had much luck finding anything oddball or metric there without having it shipped from another location (for which they will charge you extra). Their website is at least moderately decent at predicting what they'll have in stock, though.

Same. I don't even bother with fastenmost and grainger anymore, boltdepot covers 90% of my metric needs, mcmaster has another 9%, and belmetric is good too but I haven't had to look at their site in like 3 years. Boltdepot is even local-ish to me so if I order by 2-4pm and get ups ground shipping it arrives next day.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Turns out McMaster is just over 200 miles from my house so those bolts I ordered yesterday at 5am were here when I got home today. Next day shipping for standard price, not bad. Have a list of miscellaneous bolts (diff mount, steering rack, etc) that I'll be ordering through them once I figure out exact dimensions and needs.

Was talking with a friend about the project and mentioned shopping for a oil tank. He checked with his uncle that raced dirt track and he has an old one he's sending down. Three gallon, built in filter and should fit in the trunk very nicely. May be here by this weekend!

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
McMaster does that a lot. It's pretty awesome.

Alarbus
Mar 31, 2010

mekilljoydammit posted:

McMaster does that a lot. It's pretty awesome.

I'm pretty sure they have UPS manage their warehouses/inventory, so the people picking the orders are also the ones doing all of the shipping side, and it may also be near/tied to a distribution center.

Jymmybob
Jun 26, 2000

Grimey Drawer

Alarbus posted:

I'm pretty sure they have UPS manage their warehouses/inventory, so the people picking the orders are also the ones doing all of the shipping side, and it may also be near/tied to a distribution center.

I buy a lot of stuff and they use a pretty wide variety of carriers depending on time of day and shipment size. About 75% of my orders are Lasership/Prestige and I'm pretty sure I've funded the guy on our route from a car to an actual delivery van over the past few years. The rest are mostly UPS with a very rare FedEx mixed in and for skids they tend to use Ward. That's at least how it is from the Aurora warehouse and I remember seeing a bunch of other carriers there too, but I haven't been up there once I started using their courier service for emergencies. I've pretty much stopped stocking a lot of backup equipment and parts since I get almost everything same day at this point and a special courier is like $40 for guaranteed delivery within 2 hours. I love them so much.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Mini update before a big update later. Did a quick test fit of the engine with the new pan...it fits! Fits really well other than the exhaust which means I need a header :homebrew:


Going to see if I can find some scrap aluminum plate to drill holes in to prototype engine mount plates. Using the M20 engine mounts I just need to come in a bit on either side and it should work. I'll probably bolt on the transmission and pull the header for another test fit later today/tomorrow.

Oil tank arrived, meant to toss it in and take photos but :effort:


Was going to toss the pump mount on there but the hardware included doesn't fit which means I'll be doing another McMaster order. Have hardware to mount the differential now, may toss that in this weekend as well.

charliemonster42
Sep 14, 2005

I'd be lying if I said this thread doesn't make me think long and hard about doing my M52B28 swap in e30, especially since I think this is one of the best motors ever made. Then I remember I bought an airplane and have to keep that flying and am subsequently poor and should probably just stick with the complete swap I have sitting in my garage. :smith:

e: truly the Whitest of Whines.

clam ache
Sep 6, 2009
Wouldnt it be easier to just take the header to a muffler shop and have them flip the end flange 180*. If it points away from the body isnt that the desired result?

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


charliemonster42 posted:

I'd be lying if I said this thread doesn't make me think long and hard about doing my M52B28 swap in e30, especially since I think this is one of the best motors ever made. Then I remember I bought an airplane and have to keep that flying and am subsequently poor and should probably just stick with the complete swap I have sitting in my garage. :smith:
M52 is a great engine for a daily driver E30, likely what I'll throw in when I build my DD E30 in a couple years. Unless I go diesel...I really want to go diesel.

clam ache posted:

Wouldnt it be easier to just take the header to a muffler shop and have them flip the end flange 180*. If it points away from the body isnt that the desired result?
That could work. For now I picked up some heavy duty sawzall blades and will chop off the flange at the end to see if that clears up enough space. I need to see how much total space I need and how much closer I can make the stock header to the transmission.


Picked up a 3 or 4 foot length of pre-drilled aluminum then chopped it into 12 pieces. Opened up the holes then stacked them and bolted them on. These will be used for prototyping the steel engine mounts that will be made then bolt and welded in.


Putting together another order of bolts since the pump mount didn't come with mounting hardware to bolt it to the engine. Took a ton of measurement pictures but they're pretty boring. Girlfriend leaves early tomorrow morning so I should be able to make some progress over the long holiday weekend.

I'll be dumping all pictures to this google photos album - https://goo.gl/photos/9q2hKncxA3Ndkxpn7

NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Nov 22, 2016

PaintVagrant
Apr 13, 2007

~ the ultimate driving machine ~
Alternate option, route header flange through hole in original e30 m3 hood, literally get murdered at your first German car meet up.

charliemonster42
Sep 14, 2005

NitroSpazzz posted:

M52 is a great engine for a daily driver E30, likely what I'll throw in when I build my DD E30 in a couple years. Unless I go diesel...I really want to go diesel.

Yeah, that's basically where I'm at with it. It's a second car, so reliability isn't a 100% concern, but I would like minimal headache. Also, I've already got basically everything all ready to go to do the swap, I just need to get on and start doing it.

Besides, I don't think I could sell everything for enough money to even buy the Honda motor anyway, so it's a moot point.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


charliemonster42 posted:

Yeah, that's basically where I'm at with it. It's a second car, so reliability isn't a 100% concern, but I would like minimal headache. Also, I've already got basically everything all ready to go to do the swap, I just need to get on and start doing it.

Besides, I don't think I could sell everything for enough money to even buy the Honda motor anyway, so it's a moot point.
It's a little lest proven/tested and there's probably less parts you can buy directly to make it fit but the M54 is a drat good engine. A lot like a M52 but better. They stuck them in EVERYTHING so finding one in a junk yard shouldn't be too bad. I thought about one for this but they don't like high revs.


Removed exhaust, installed the transmission and messed around with fitment for a few hours last night. Headed back out in a bit to do more of this and install the differential. Also need to rearrange the garage for winter storage mode and wash a bunch of cars.

Fun fact: S2000 engine mount arms can not be swapped left for right :downs:

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Forgot my brother posted it in a Facebook group months ago then sent me the pictures. Of course a non-BMW specific group but reactions were generally positive.










honda whisperer
Mar 29, 2009

Comedy option, put DOHC VTEC stickers on the doors and or an E2000 badge for the trunk then go to a meet and play dumb.

Awesome swap. I think it will be fun as hell once it's going.

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Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:

honda whisperer posted:

Comedy option, put DOHC VTEC stickers on the doors and or an E2000 badge for the trunk then go to a meet and play dumb.

Awesome swap. I think it will be fun as hell once it's going.

Take it to all the local Honda meets...

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