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TheStampede posted:My 2 cents. I taught MT for about 3 years (recently quit to go back to school.) and had a guy come in once to get a free first class and check us out. I asked new people if they have any previous martial arts training to get an idea of what their skill set will likely be, and this guy tells me he used to do Krav Maga. I don't have a problem with the art itself when it's practiced in a reasonable setting, but he made a point to let me know they trained him on how to rip a mans throat out, and various other "devastating techniques". Oh. Okay. Here we go... I wouldve told him to go gently caress off after the 2nd time lol. Not trying to sound cool or anything but ive taught those kinds of guys too, they are the idiots who get caught in a triangle choke and start trying to eye gouge their way out or something and are like "sorry bro i couldnt control my instincts". Its not safe and its not their "killer instincts" its just the fact that they cant stand being humbled or ever losing, even in a demonstration, which is like antithetical to the whole martial arts uh thing
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Sep 15, 2016 23:12
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Siivola posted:That's a really good reason to pick up a martial art, and BJJ is a good match for it. Agreed
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Sep 20, 2016 05:22
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Re: krav maga talk i always think its funny when otherwise skeptical minded people think a Marine or whatever, who trains combatives 3 hours a week and has never been in a real fistfight, could easily beat up a pro fighter who spends their entire life training to fight. Especially when you train with an Army/police combatives instructor and you realize theyre just some random blue belt
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Sep 21, 2016 03:32
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:3 hours a week? I thought most soldiers got a two week course during basic training and that's all. I dont really know i was just giving a generous estimate, but i just looked it up and it seems like you can get a black belt in Marine combatives in like 3-4 months or so worth of regular training
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Sep 21, 2016 03:43
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Newest entry in the "does BJJ work in a street fight where theres no rules and the other person pulls your hair/scratches at your eyes etc" https://twitter.com/30SECONDFlGHTS/status/779095334270238720
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Sep 23, 2016 14:46
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Also decent sacrifice throw
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Sep 23, 2016 14:47
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KildarX posted:The Armbar was a bit much. Yah for sure. She got hosed up
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Sep 23, 2016 18:04
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Rolling with strikes is the best. Even if you dont fully gear up and start hitting each other, at least having the option to strike helps eliminate those situations where like youre in mount on a stronger guy and he just lies there flat and hugs his collars tightly and it takes way longer for something to happen than it should, and is just dumb bjj gamesmanship
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Sep 23, 2016 22:24
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VulgarandStupid posted:This is atrocious. The striking is so bad without headshots, yet the fighters are still hesitant to engage and often turn away. No one in the entire video looks like they have a good base when they hit the ground. I like that they all go for that awful schoolyard trip on each other lol it would suck if you wanted to learn Judo and then went there by accident
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Sep 28, 2016 15:36
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Systema sucks for teaching you how to fight, this is what their light sparring looks like and the fat guy is one of the most famous Systema guys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NeMkL9qdD4 As long as youre having fun though it doesnt really matter
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Nov 23, 2016 01:11
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Watch at around 3:00 to see someone moving their body to deflect impact lol edit actually no watch at 4:50~ to see a good demonstration of a toehold manyak fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 23, 2016 01:13
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mewse posted:It's depressingly common Yeah lol One time i brought a female friend to try BJJ and after a while the guy who taught the womens class (not my instructor but another higher belt) was grooming her and acting weird around me until I was like "Yah thats not my girlfriend lol" so he was free to abuse his position as is his wont. Sexual tension runs high in the spandex pants grabass sport
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Dec 13, 2016 18:18
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Grandmaster.flv posted:no, but I do suspect there is a whole lot of projection in this post willie! Lol
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Dec 14, 2016 03:17
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Drag him
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Dec 14, 2016 04:39
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Wheat Loaf posted:
Starting on your knees is kind of dumb but its done at most schools usually because of limited space and safety. Wrestling from your knees is not a skill you really have to work on, you could just stand up - a lot of white belts waste a lot of time wrestling around and gripfighting from the knees for no reason. For me i like to just give up a position, either pull guard, give up side control/mount or turtle and try to work out of it and go from there, especially against lower belt levels. And then sometimes if i want to work on something from top position ill just ask if we can alternate starting the roll from top half guard or whatever the position is. Youll get a lot more good reps in this way than wasting time wrestling from your knees
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Feb 22, 2017 23:44
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willie_dee posted:Is it sound technique though? Would it work against anyone half competent at actually fighting? no
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Feb 23, 2017 19:44
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Wangsbig posted:I don't think guard pullers should be docked a point, but I am completely in favor of them being stripped nude and having their obviously small dick and balls judged by the spectators and their fellow competitors until they cry True
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Feb 23, 2017 21:34
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Basically just BJJ but youre allowed to slam your opponent and you get points for high amplitude throws like wrestling
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Feb 23, 2017 21:45
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I agree that someone who has done live training in Aikido would do better in grappling/a fight than someone who's never grappled before. I also think though that if you took a couple reasonably smart people with no combat sports background at all, and got them together a few times a week and just told them to live grapple against each other and figure out what works and what doesnt and write it down, after like a year theyd probably have come up with a better grappling martial art than Aikido, and be better fighters than someone who trained Aikido for an equivalent amount of time. I think the overall body of techniques and the things they encourage are bad enough that youd be worse off doing Aikido (without cross training for context) than just doing whatever I think theres some good stuff in Aikido but its outweighed by the bad. Ive known people who kinda make Aikido work but theyre always big strong guys who mostly can only get the techniques to work on smaller people. I think its a good art for police or bouncers or whatever because in those situations you often have a size/sobriety/numbers/people not wanting to punch a cop advantage and its good to know some basic pain compliance like standing wrist locks etc to move people around and not hurt them. If you just packaged that stuff together and taught it as a 2 week course called Bouncer-Fu youd get about as much out of it as most people will ever use Not to diminish the effort of people who have done a lifetime of Aikido, everyone has different reasons for doing martial arts etc and if you do it that long there are plenty of things to take from it
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Feb 28, 2017 23:10
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Siivola posted:This is a really curious argument and I'd really appreciate it if you went into detail. Well my take is there are a limited number of ways two bodies can engage one another in a fight, and some are more efficient and/or readily apparent, which is why so many martial arts with different origins converge on similar techniques, or even like.. when you see two bears fighting each other they use underhooks and do hip tosses and stuff. I think if you took some athletic competitive people and just gave them a ruleset of "you win by pinning the other person, choking them, or locking a joint" and no other instruction theyd eventually come up with something resembling catch wrestling for instance after a lot of live training, just through trial and error. And my opinion is that what youd get taught at an Aikido school would be a worse use of your time than simple trial and error from scratch, which is kind of the baseline in my mind for deciding if someone has something worth teaching/tradition worth keeping Like when I go to BJJ i learn techniques that i wouldnt have come up with on my own because theres a long line of people competing and thinking about BJJ and that work of trial and error is truncated for me by the instructor/whoever. If i went there and was taught techniques that were either intuitively obvious, or worse, didnt actually work, then it would be a waste of my time to pay for instruction when i could just be rolling and figuring it out myself. Thats the goal of tradition, ideas being passed down so that you dont have to do the work of coming upon them yourself, etc More to the point, most Aikido techniques, like this one i picked at random, would never ever work the way theyre taught and would be modified or discarded quickly under the pressure of natural selection from live training/competition, and so are only interesting for aesthetic or historical reasons (all this is assuming your main goal is to be able to actually fight or defend yourself or whatever nebulous thing). Boxers dont throw a cross the way they do because someone hundreds of years ago told them to - it evolved as the most efficient way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwPgkyalKxI&t=36s Really its just a long-winded way of saying the obvious, that techniques that actually "work" come out of thoughtful, goal-oriented, live practice or competition. Thats the quickest way to end up with something thats actually useful, and tradition is only worth as much as how it gets you to that point. Aikido has a lot of tradition thats a waste of time. Sorry for rambling but you did ask for detail
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Mar 1, 2017 00:35
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CommonShore posted:Here's the only video I could find of that technique, known in Judo as Uki Otoshi, working in competition: Thats cool, and i think it is kind of to my point that there are some important differences between the way its taught in judo vs. aikido. In judo you start with a collar and sleeve or two sleeve grip, and you disrupt their kuzushi then execute the throw (more or less?) Theres a similar technique in wrestling too when you have an inside tie/collar tie and the guy is pushing towards you. Its a simple principle and I think trying to practice it exactly the way the aikido instructor shows in the vid (with a guy running towards you with an outstretched arm??) would be actively harmful versus starting with the principle and figuring it out yourself with live practice and an open mind
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Mar 1, 2017 00:51
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Uki Otoshi is the first technique in the judo throwing kata because it's pretty much a straight example of the principle of kuzushi.
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hi liter posted:If you want to be good at fighting, fight hard and push yourself in training. There are no secrets, no shortcuts, no mystical knowledge which will make you a good martial artist. There is only hard work. Anything else is bullshit. I agree but while we're here i do think its annoying when this is trotted out to defend bad technique, when people say "its not the style, its the practitioner" - thats true to a degree but if the technique is half as effective youll have to work twice as hard to make it work for you. There are no shortcuts but there are more and less efficient ways of getting the same result
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Mar 1, 2017 01:06
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcaOr1TBA1w Something that was gaslighting me today.. so this video is making the rounds on Reddit or something and some guys showed it to me, my reaction without even thinking about it was 'that's clearly fake' but then we get into an argument where they cant be convinced its fake and have a bunch of pretty specific reasons why its actually real (or at least a viable technique). These are med students so they at least have an above average understanding of anatomy/physiology... i searched online thinking there might be an article 'debunking' it but everywhere i looked everyone believes this is a real thing. Even people on Bullshido or MMA forums or whatever are like "yeah Dim mak isnt real but this is the only one that actually works, i was skeptical but it worked on me" etc etc so I tried to keep an open mind and looked at the justifications for it: Apparently the name for it is a "brachial stun" and it really is taught in Marines combatives, police, and a bunch of traditional martial arts. Basically you chop (or slap or backhand or poke) someone in the side of the neck Austin Powers style and they instantly pass out, or at least are "stunned" & cant defend themselves. Here are some of the mechanisms people by which its supposed to work: a) blocks the carotid artery, blood stops going to the brain and you pass out. This one isnt even valid on its face, there are a lot of redundancies in arterial blood going to the brain, anyone whos done grappling knows youll be totally fine if one carotid is blocked and the other isnt. Let alone whether a light chop would disrupt blood flow enough to cause unconsciousness b) "Stunning" the brachial plexus (most common explanation I saw). A plexus is a network of nerves. The brachial plexus basically runs from the vertebrae in your lower neck down to your armpit, and gives somatic afferent and efferent (sensory and motor) innervation to the shoulder, arm, and chest on that side of your body. Their notion is that you chop this bundle of nerves and it 'overloads' the neurons and makes you pass out. This seems implausible to me for a couple reasons: 1) it would be pretty hard to actually hit directly, its more buried in there than anatomy pictures make it seem (it runs under your clavicle towards the armpit); 2) im pretty certain theres no mechanism where hitting a somatic nerve makes you pass out. Most likely it would give you a tingling feeling (paresthesia) or temporary paralysis of that area depending where and how hard you impacted it. In fact injuries to the brachial plexus are pretty common, people get them all the time playing sports or just stretching their neck, and the symptoms are.. tingling and numbness in your arm. So its plausible this would make your arm feel weird for a second c) hitting the carotid sinus and causing a parasympathetic response that makes you faint (most plausible I guess?) The carotid sinus is an area near where the common carotid branches to the internal and external carotid. Its the most important site for baroreception -- your body regulates blood pressure by sensing the amount of 'stretch' in the blood vessels and signalling to lower heart rate to compensate. Their concept here basically is that smacking the mechanoreceptors here will trick your body into thinking your blood pressure is extremely high, making your Vagus nerve slow your heart rate drastically, making you faint. The mechanism is basically real, its called vasovagal syncope and its the most common reason people faint. You see a trigger like a blood or something and you faint because of increased parasympathetic tone. Some people also have carotid sinus hypersensitivity, and even light pressure on the carotid sinus can cause an exaggerated response -- older men sometimes faint while shaving because of the pressure of the razor on their carotid. You can try "carotid sinus massage" on yourself - press on the area around the carotid sinus, and it's thought to lower your HR/Blood pressure. The effect is really mild however on healthy people without hypersensitivity, which makes me skeptical that you could hit someone in the sinus once on one side (there's a sinus on both sides of the neck) and cause syncope. Even if it did work, the person wouldnt pass out instantly like the dude in the video, it would take a little bit of time here are my alternative explanations why it might actually work: a) power of suggestion (most of the demonstrations are done by a 'sensei' or drill instructor or whatever in front of a bunch of people) plus being out of shape cause an exaggerated vasovagal response to getting hit in the neck (which the person plays up a bit) so it more or less 'works' on a more real level than Dim mak etc, but wouldnt work in a real situation on a resisting person b) it sucks to get hit in the neck and most people have weak necks, your neck muscles have reflexes to contract violently if your head suddenly rotates/tilts laterally to protect your spine, the force of this could be concussive if done hard enough especially on an untrained person. I think this is basically understood by anyone who has been kicked in the neck in Muay thai or whatever. Youd have to do it pretty forcefully so this doesnt explain the ones where the guy really lightly chops at the neck and they instantly go down, and there is no magic mechanism here other than head trauma, you might as well just be punching them in the chin This is more for ones like this where the guy is told to totally relax and then is fuckin smacked in the neck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AMUWInhzgY&t=33s Anyway... i tried it on myself and it didnt work at all but i was told it wouldnt work because I 'tensed up' (like how you cant tickle yourself). I convinced one of the guys I was arguing with to try it on me and it didnt work, but he did it pretty lightly because he was scared he would murder me i guess, and also apparently it didnt work because Ive trained my neck muscles from grappling. I think its pretty crazy that this is accepted as a real technique by lots of otherwise skeptical martial arts people. Its actually taught in police foundations as a way to subdue a suspect, in searching for it I found a bunch of police reports saying they "brachial stunned" someone resisting arrest which is hilarious to me. it wasnt easy to find anyone else who thought it was fake, but lots of pseudoscience claiming its real. I did find this classic video where a guy tries it on a reporter and she just goes "Uhh yeah you just hit me in the head" (guest appearance by Stephan Bonnar) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar1yXYOsxQk&t=177s Has anyone here had this done to them? Did you get hosed up? Sorry for the extremely long post about a stupid thing but i thought it was funny
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Mar 10, 2017 00:29
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tl;dr I was gaslit into thinking that the Austin Powers judo chop was real and spent a while thinking of physiological reasons why it probably isnt
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Mar 10, 2017 00:30
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Kekekela posted:that was a pretty great read, manyak Thanks I was joking about the gaslighting but it did make me go a little crazy to see all these Judo/BJJ/combatives instructors and other semi-reputable people insist its real. I guess ultimately im willing to believe its "real" to the extent that you can hit someone in the neck and it will hurt and disorient them. So it might as well be a real thing but the versions where you lightly chop someone and they go limp are fake, and the scientific justifications for it are stupid While we're at it I came across a lot of bad logic for the 'knife hand' strike in general, aesthetics aside I cant really think of a reason to use it over a closed fist hammerfist
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Mar 10, 2017 03:33
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CommonShore posted:She said that a) is impossible, b) is retarded because the brachial plexus isn't even where that guy hit and it makes no sense anyway because even if you could hit them you couldn't hit all five of these nerves, and c) could happen in a far-fetched world. Well im glad. There are a million videos with people doing it different ways, sometimes they strike closer to where the brachial plexus actually is (overtop of the 1st rib), sometimes some indeterminate place in the middle of the neck, sometimes up by the angle of the jaw under the ear. The latter is the one i'd least want to have done to me since its closest to just getting punched in the head
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Mar 10, 2017 04:13
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The only reason i went beyond the classic 'why hasnt it happened in an MMA fight' is since in a fight youre expecting it and in a state of heightened sympathetic tone, and i was wondering if there was an interesting reason it might work on someone who is totally relaxed and not expecting it. As far as its usefulness in an actual fight its pretty clearly nil. Theres hundreds of videos of people doing it to each other though, and news articles about it, yet no source where someone explains why its bullshit, which is pretty rare I have never watched MMA or boxing but ill check it out
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Mar 10, 2017 14:32
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VulgarandStupid posted:I'm not sure how this guy's aikido credentials check out, but here you go: Haha thats cool of the guy to do. I wish they picked it up a bit, people who dont train wont really have a good sense from the video of how easy the MMA guy was going there, he was sparring like 10% intensity
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May 4, 2017 01:44
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kimbo305 posted:Which gyms might be the cheapest/ coolest for dropping in for a day and sparring with folks? Bazooka kickboxing. Come spar with Joseph Valtellini, Matt Embree, and to a lesser extent me
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May 4, 2017 05:31
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Jato posted:Thanks, all. I think I'm going to start at a different school because their schedule works a little better for me and the only beginner program they have is gi. They do have a no gi class one night a week though so I'll be sure to give that a shot and see how I like it. Going to sit in on a beginner's class next week and check the place out. Have fun dude
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May 13, 2017 01:11
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