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resurgam40 posted:Ah, but he didn't actually touch her, did he? Jessica did stop him, which renders this point pretty much moot... But I'm glad you reminded me of that, because that whole interaction is weird too, as Battler himself points out: who would just stand there and take it when a slavering perv makes a move towards your breasts? As pretty much everyone in the room points out, shannon would be well within her rights to defend herself (especially within sight of her apparent boyfriend, who didn't really do much of anything either), and as we see later is perfectlky willing to defend herself... and also doesn't call herself furniture. So her meekness here is incongruent... did she want to be embraced by Battler, somehow? It feels like that scene is a metaphor for the entire premise of the game? If Battler actually grabbed her, he would have found out the truth about Sayo pretty quickly. And I think she acted the way she did because on some level, she wanted him to be the one to figure it out.
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Mar 15, 2017 20:24
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I brought up earlier that Hideyoshi and Eva might have thought the Murders were fake in episode 1 and were bribed into helping.
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Mar 15, 2017 21:22
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By the way, I like how Lambadelta is really good at math and absolutely terrible at connecting it to the real world. She threatens to trap Bern in a castle with 30 foot walls, and Bern offers to make the castles area much larger at the cost of reducing the walls to 1/10th height. So while Lambadelta is busy dreaming of how long Bern will be trapped, Bern is escaping with a small hop. Although generally people in this game are awfully fond of and good at multiplication. See Kyries jealousy and the saga of Goat-kun. The real magic was inside a calculator all along!
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Mar 15, 2017 22:33
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It's mathemagical, it's what it is.
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Mar 15, 2017 23:43
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Tender Child Loins posted:Yeaaaah I'm going to go out on a limb and say that both exist, like Beatrice exists, but they have the same body. That's... that's quite a limb there. I was just thinking that the one impersonating was just filling a necessary role for the conference, while the other one is dead or indisposed in some other way, but... are you saying that Shannon created, wholesale a "playmate" for Jessica based on what she liked? One that she kept up for three whole years, whilst simultaneously wooing George as Shannon? ...  That's... possible? I guess? But why would she do that, is the question, especially when she's cooking up these elaborate murders at the same time? Is it because she felt sorry for Jessica, and wanted to give her a perfect paramour in order to make her feel less lonely? Or is it all part of her revenge, that she woo away her greatest enemies' children to pursue commoners? I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just trying to get a hold of your thought process here
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Mar 15, 2017 23:59
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I don't buy the two people one body theory, but it is consistent with the red text. "They would never mistakenly think any other person was Kanon!" can be solved by the name Kanon simply never having the referent the text is meant to imply. Kanon was always Shannon, so there's no mistake in him continuing to be Shannon.
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Mar 16, 2017 01:35
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resurgam40 posted:That's... that's quite a limb there. I was just thinking that the one impersonating was just filling a necessary role for the conference, while the other one is dead or indisposed in some other way, but... are you saying that Shannon created, wholesale a "playmate" for Jessica based on what she liked? One that she kept up for three whole years, whilst simultaneously wooing George as Shannon? I... I don't know how well Ryukishi knows stuff, but... gender confusion? Feeling uncomfortable enough with a body to want to be a different gender could also end up with wanting to date differently depending on how you're identifying, I suppose.
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Mar 16, 2017 06:33
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resurgam40 posted:That's... possible? I guess? But why would she do that, is the question, especially when she's cooking up these elaborate murders at the same time? Is it because she felt sorry for Jessica, and wanted to give her a perfect paramour in order to make her feel less lonely? Or is it all part of her revenge, that she woo away her greatest enemies' children to pursue commoners? I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just trying to get a hold of your thought process here I think this split personality thing predates the murder scheme, since the text says Beatrice only manifested six years prior to the events. But think about that peculiar term that keeps popping up: "furniture." Beatrice, Gaap, the Chiester Sisters, the Stakes, Ronove, Kanon, and Shannon all say that they're furniture. What might they all have in common? They're all figments of Sayo's imagination. That said, I don't think Kanon exists for Jessica. Think back to the conversations he, Shannon, and Beatrice had about furniture and love. Consider how all of those personalities serve a specific psychological need: Shannon can be the mature, respectable, and feminine Madonna; Kanon can express frustration and indignation freely; Beatrice can act out anger and betrayal on top of serving as an all-powerful, confident self. The Stakes, Gaap, Ronove, and the Chiesters are her servants in the sense that they symbolize simpler aspects of her psyche. When her emotions become too much to handle (See: Battler disappearing on her in 1980), her reaction is to compartmentalize and put them outside of herself. Basically Umineko is like a really inside-out version of Inside Out? Edit: Yep, the theory is really loving crazy and I'm probably projecting a lot/filling in gaps with my own poo poo  It's ok guys, even I can see that. I think that's what kind of makes this fun for me; I've never seen that side of myself portrayed in media before.
witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Mar 16, 2017 |
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Mar 16, 2017 17:32
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Problem, Beatrice calls herself a witch not furniture or human.
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Mar 16, 2017 23:40
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One more time, the Profile and TIPS sections have been updated.
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Mar 17, 2017 01:18
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Hmm  Unless there's something I'm forgetting, I'm suddenly wondering if Maria might have some connection with the Chiesters -- since Rosa was referred to as a black witch, iirc, and she smashed one of Maria's porcelain rabbits. Hmm...
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Mar 17, 2017 02:00
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I would never have made that link, but now you've pointed it out, I'm 99% sure you're right. Does that mean that this is all Maria's fantasy? We know that the first bottle was signed from Maria. E: Can we link any more of the furniture to toys Maria had? What toy is Goat-kun!? CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Mar 17, 2017 |
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Mar 17, 2017 02:15
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CottonWolf posted:I would never have made that link, but now you've pointed it out, I'm 99% sure you're right. Does that mean that this is all Maria's fantasy? We know that the first bottle was signed from Maria. E4 already (explicitly) told y'all that the bottles weren't actually written by Maria.
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Mar 17, 2017 04:36
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"Beatrice" and Maria spent a lot of time together creating their shared "magical" universe. Concepts seem to have crossed in both directions.
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Mar 17, 2017 04:54
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Yeah, Maria doesn't have to have physically written it to have been the originator of the stories.
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Mar 17, 2017 11:11
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Ushiromiya Maria, the nine-year-old mystery novel author, skilled enough at her craft to stump Battler for four games
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Mar 17, 2017 13:11
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tiistai posted:Ushiromiya Maria, the nine-year-old mystery novel author, skilled enough at her craft to stump Battler for four games Battler is incompetent. AweStriker fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Mar 17, 2017 |
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Mar 17, 2017 14:24
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tiistai posted:Ushiromiya Maria, the nine-year-old mystery novel author, skilled enough at her craft to stump Battler for four games She's a big Agatha Christie fan.
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Mar 17, 2017 14:30
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If you thought I'd be able to hold off for a full week, you don't know my LP mindset very well. Let's Play Umineko Chiru
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Mar 17, 2017 18:23
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Whup, didn't get around to typing out my Murder Theory. Well, it'll keep.
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Mar 17, 2017 18:35
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AweStriker posted:Battler is incompetent. In 1998 the bottle messages are widely known by mystery and occult buffs all over the world, yet they don't seem to have solved them either.
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Mar 17, 2017 19:59
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tiistai posted:In 1998 the bottle messages are widely known by mystery and occult buffs all over the world, yet they don't seem to have solved them either. They aren't constantly talking with the culprit.
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Mar 17, 2017 20:42
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tiistai posted:In 1998 the bottle messages are widely known by mystery and occult buffs all over the world, yet they don't seem to have solved them either. They are all Battler.
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Mar 17, 2017 21:25
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Of course the other possibility is that Maria is actually terrible at mysteries and didn't even make them solvable and just had everyone fooled 
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Mar 17, 2017 21:27
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Will this get archived?
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Mar 19, 2017 03:06
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Artificer posted:Will this get archived? I have some last tweaks to make first, but eventually yes.
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Mar 19, 2017 04:08
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I think I speak for the thread when I say spinning Kasumi face needs to be archived for future generations.
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Mar 19, 2017 05:42
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Just want to say thank you to little_firebird for making the small face kasumi in the first place. It was just the right thing to post at such a crucial time.
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Mar 19, 2017 06:15
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Are you able to archive the guest updates too? At this point, they're probably the best existent translations for those stories. (which reminds me I should go back and make some fixes myself)
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Mar 19, 2017 06:44
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I've almost constantly been like ten pages behind, but the thread slowed down enough that I could finally catch u-ProfessorProf posted:If you thought I'd be able to hold off for a full week, you don't know my LP mindset very well. .....goddammit. Just kidding. Thank you for doing this, Prof, you're amazing. I'm glad to finally have a hope of finishing this story that's been taunting me for the better part of a decade (since around when scanlations of the manga started appearing, whenever that was.) Maybe I can keep up with the second half and actually come up with some theories? (Probably not  )
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Mar 22, 2017 02:06
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Thread archived, thread locked. Thanks for playing.
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Apr 7, 2017 05:50
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