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Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe


What exactly is this "Endless" series?

The Endless series of games are a group of 4x (Expand, Explore, Exploit and Exterminate) games made by Amplitude Studios, a small but very talented group out of Paris, France. So far they've produced two projects in the genre and one rather interesting spinoff. Amplitude games have all launched in Early Access (except for their very first one, Endless Space) for the purpose of getting community feedback that alters development. So far, it's an approach that has really paid off.

What differs the Endless games from other 4xes?

The big difference is focus. Most 4x games are predominantly about the wargame, whereas this series has a greater focus on more complex empire management with highly diverging factions. Combat is designed to keep the flow of the game moving rather than to pause it while a battle is resolved. This is especially handy in multiplayer as it means the action does not pause for everyone once two players are engaged in conflict.

A common trend amongst the games is the FIDSI resource system: Food, Industry (production, unlike others does not stack between turns) [d]D[/b]ust (the currency and primary power source of the setting,) S for research and Influence which is spent in diplomatic affairs.

Enough about the studio, where are the GAMES?


:siren: Endless Legend:siren:

Endless Legend was Amplitude's second game and is an extremely strong 4x title. It came out the same year as Civilization: Beyond Earth but the goon consensus appears to be that Legend is a far superior game. 8 races (in the base game, I'll get to the expansions/DLC later) each with extremely different mechanics, an absolutely gorgeous art direction, strong diplomacy and an unique but fast combat system all combine to make an excellent title. Each expansion has only expanded on the game mechanics, fleshing out weaker points or adding completely new systems.

Which expansions should I buy?

That depends what you want to add to the game, really. I order this in order of personal importance from most to least.
Tempest: adds naval combat, a ton of new water-based features and territory.
Shifters: adds more interaction with the winter phase and a race that massively shifts in gameplay depending on the season
Shadows: espionage and more underhanded diplomacy options
Guardians: adds the titular guardian super units, but more importantly adds basically wonders at the world and empire levels and the deeds (rewards for hitting competitive goals)
The Lost Tales: adds extra quests, mostly from minor factions
Echoes of Auriga: adds more (great) music to the already great soundtrack

Anyone have some guides? Please PM or post



:siren:Dungeon of the Endless:siren:

An interesting roguelike based in the same universe as the other Endless games. Dungeon is actually a bit of a dungeon crawler/tower defense hybrid as your team of intrepid heroes build modules as they carefully cross each floor, culminating in a mad dash with your power crystal from your start to your exit.

I'll leave any further expansion of this section to others in the thread as my experience with the game is somewhat limited.




:siren::siren:Endless Space 2:siren::siren:


Came out a few months ago and so far is excellent despite a few polish issues (such as carriers and strike craft not yet in game, coming in an upcoming patch.) There's a huge focus on internal politics (for a typical 4X, it's not Europa Universalis or Crusader Kings) and diplomacy. The races are probably some of the most unique Amplitude have created so far, from the nomadic space "vampire" vodyani to the riftborn and unfallen. They even managed to make a really interesting human faction with the United Empire built on influence and military.

For now, I'll just link the official wiki and some gameplay videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_yW2NkxQ2w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhYNUmj1oKQ

Endless Space 2 official wiki


On a final note, don't bother with the original Endless Space. It's a pretty solid first effort at a 4x, but it's still a very rough game.

Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Aug 20, 2017

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Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe
Guides and Useful Links

Lichtenstain's Guide to the Forgotten


If anyone's got another guide or other info to contribute to the OP, please PM me or post it in the thread. I'll do my best to keep this updated.

Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Oct 27, 2016

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Es2 looks awesome, the Craver video is cool as heck.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


One thing I really like about EL and ES that makes the Cravers and Necrophage stand out is that they don't just have war and peace, but also cold war, which allows limited hostilities and is the status quo. Cravers and Necrophage can never have true peace, but they can get things down to a cold war.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

Tulip posted:

One thing I really like about EL and ES that makes the Cravers and Necrophage stand out is that they don't just have war and peace, but also cold war, which allows limited hostilities and is the status quo. Cravers and Necrophage can never have true peace, but they can get things down to a cold war.

Yeah, it's nice that there's a buffer state between agreeable peace and all-out war. How EL handles cold war is interesting too. In neutral or home territory, you can engage in hostilities without much repercussion because they're on your turf (or in a place they have no claim on).

The new Mograwr faction looks pretty interesting in EL's Tempest update. They can make Minor Faction villages un-pacified again and mind control minor faction armies to harass the enemy, or put a curse on an enemy empire so anyone can attack them without repercussion and get dust for killing their units. It's nice that the aquatic faction has more tricks up their sleeve than JUST "is good at sea combat" which is where Civilization: Beyond Earth's sea-going faction's uniqueness ended.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002

Any indication of how the combat in ES2 is shaping up? It seems like the weak point in both ES and EL so that's the part I'm most skeptical of right now. Is the weapon/armor system still a simple RPS system or we got anything else going on really?

Grinning Goblin
Oct 11, 2004

I like Endless Legends, but I feel the big flaw is the discrepancy in certain victory conditions which become super apparent in multiplayer. Like if there is a Wild Walkers player and he knows what he is doing, the game is going to end the game like 30-40 turns earlier than a bunch of other people can. Especially if they are able to abuse the market never properly adjusting to stockpile strengths.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

I'm pretty pumped for ES2. I really like the faction videos and I think they might be taking a few new paths with some faction quests. For example the narrator for the Sophon video seems to be this AI they created and despite the tone it strikes me as rather sinister and ominous.

DarkAvenger211
Jun 29, 2011

Damnit Steve, you know I'm a sucker for Back to the Future references.

Gwyrgyn Blood posted:

Any indication of how the combat in ES2 is shaping up? It seems like the weak point in both ES and EL so that's the part I'm most skeptical of right now. Is the weapon/armor system still a simple RPS system or we got anything else going on really?

It looks like you can pick formations for your ships and the manoeuvres they perform during the fight. That's sort of what I got from a few PAX demo videos though, I'm not really certain if these formations/manoeuvres are just the replacement for their card system, or something else that adds some more variety and choice to a battle.

On the other hand though the cinematics for these battles look loving awesome. You can actually see articulating turrets shoot stuff instead of bullets and lasers just coming out of a ship. And it looks like ships show visible scratches and burns where they're hit (you know, instead of all projectiles zeroing in on the origin point of the ship model). It looks like it would be fun to watch some big space ship fights.

Sulphagnist
Oct 10, 2006

WARNING! INTRUDERS DETECTED

Demiurge4 posted:

I'm pretty pumped for ES2. I really like the faction videos and I think they might be taking a few new paths with some faction quests. For example the narrator for the Sophon video seems to be this AI they created and despite the tone it strikes me as rather sinister and ominous.

Yeah, the Sophons seem to be smarter Kerbals who stumbled into an AI and they've probably put it in charge because :science: and now the AI is going to be the adult in the room and run their society instead.

Tanith
Jul 17, 2005


Alpha, Beta, Gamma cores
Use them, lose them, salvage more
Kick off the next AI war
In the Persean Sector
Unleash the Iain M Banks references.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Antti posted:

Yeah, the Sophons seem to be smarter Kerbals who stumbled into an AI and they've probably put it in charge because :science: and now the AI is going to be the adult in the room and run their society instead.

All 4 ES2 factions shown so far are awesome. The Vodyani are the highlight for me. Nomadic religious zealot space vampires who go around converting or eating others they encounter.


EDIT: \/ ship design is fairly in depth, though it is slotting different types of equipment into premade designs.

Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Sep 15, 2016

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002

DarkAvenger211 posted:

It looks like you can pick formations for your ships and the manoeuvres they perform during the fight. That's sort of what I got from a few PAX demo videos though, I'm not really certain if these formations/manoeuvres are just the replacement for their card system, or something else that adds some more variety and choice to a battle.

Yeah the game looks nice visually but I really hope there's some actual meat to the combat/ship design/etc going on somewhere. When a very large portion of your game's conflict is resolved via fleet combat, you'd like to hope that would be something they put a significant amount of effort into making interesting.

Not saying there isn't either, just saying I haven't seen anything like that from the videos I've watched.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

The new ship design system looks pretty neat and breaks down min maxing. Hopefully it also does away with the rock-paper-scissors system of ES1.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Demiurge4 posted:

The new ship design system looks pretty neat and breaks down min maxing. Hopefully it also does away with the rock-paper-scissors system of ES1.

In one of the interviews (I think it's the AngryJoe video) they specifically say they moved away from hard counters.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002

Yeah the RPS system from the first game, especially related to researching techs, was just awful. Uninteresting and easy to solve on top of that, and the rest of the game did not tie into it in interesting ways either. I'll be interested to see what they try and do with the new one.

Dartonus
Apr 1, 2011

It only gets worse from here on in...
I really hope the Harmony return, I loved their Dust Filtration gimmick.

MOVIE MAJICK
Jan 4, 2012

by Pragmatica

Grinning Goblin posted:

I like Endless Legends, but I feel the big flaw is the discrepancy in certain victory conditions which become super apparent in multiplayer. Like if there is a Wild Walkers player and he knows what he is doing, the game is going to end the game like 30-40 turns earlier than a bunch of other people can. Especially if they are able to abuse the market never properly adjusting to stockpile strengths.

How can this happen? Through the quest chain victory?

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

Monument victory. You literally win by production.

Grinning Goblin
Oct 11, 2004

MOVIE MAJICK posted:

How can this happen? Through the quest chain victory?

Yeah, if you know how to do their quest, they can just power through it easily and quickly. The only real roadblock comes from leveling a dude to a certain level and then the mithrite/hyperion for the wonder at the end, but you can just buy those from the market.

NmareBfly
Jul 16, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


I have 98 hours in Dungeon of the Endless and have yet to beat it a single time. It is a good game but rock hard. I refuse to play on very easy because it is beneath me.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

NmareBfly posted:

I have 98 hours in Dungeon of the Endless and have yet to beat it a single time. It is a good game but rock hard. I refuse to play on very easy because it is beneath me.

Hah. You know that the game's so-called "Easy" mode is really its hard mode and it's just the developers mocking you with a label? (though there's a module that makes things even harder)

It's a pretty drat good game, though. It's satisfying in a lot of ways I can't ennumerate.

Jastiger
Oct 11, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
Speedball are you serious? Easy is hard?

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth
Oh great, I didn't know they were going with the Early Access model now for ES2.


Love me some Early Access. Quality products there.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002

Endless Space 1 was an Early Access game too.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Jastiger posted:

Speedball are you serious? Easy is hard?

The game's two difficulty levels are Very Easy and Easy. It's a joke on how some games have Normal and Hard.

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth

Gwyrgyn Blood posted:

Endless Space 1 was an Early Access game too.

That is the opposite of reassuring.


Legend wasn't an EA thing, was it?

Jastiger
Oct 11, 2008

by FactsAreUseless

Fangz posted:

The game's two difficulty levels are Very Easy and Easy. It's a joke on how some games have Normal and Hard.

Ah.


The best advice i have for dote, is make sure you have one giy as your tank and always be looking on where you can create choke points. If you find a map with a good choke point, open more doors and gdt more goodies and xp early. Thats the key.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002

Chomp8645 posted:

That is the opposite of reassuring.


Legend wasn't an EA thing, was it?

It was. They do EA like 'buy now to get into the Beta and the game releases in like 6 months', not like 'Buy now we just started making the game and it'll never be finished' like most EA is these days.

ES1's problems weren't anything to do with the Early Access model.

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth
Oh, I thought Legend was straight to release for some reason. I guess I just happened to never notice either of them until after EA.


Probably a policy I'll keep with though.

NmareBfly
Jul 16, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


Speedball posted:

Hah. You know that the game's so-called "Easy" mode is really its hard mode and it's just the developers mocking you with a label? (though there's a module that makes things even harder)

Oh, I know. I just prefer my roguelikelikes to be the sort that kick me right in the goolies over and over which DotE does with aplomb. At this point I'd feel like I was cheating if I beat it on very easy.

My other Endless story: The Horatio in ES1 have a disadvantage that makes their ships cost more. It used to be called 'anti-expansionist' or something which made 0 sense because they're an expansionist race. I, me personally, suggested on the official forum they change the name to 'The price of beauty' because they seem like dudes that would spend a lot of time installing golden doilies in every corridor. This is my greatest game development accomplishment. :smug:

NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Sep 15, 2016

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth

NmareBfly posted:

My other Endless story: The Horatio in ES1 have a disadvantage that makes their ships cost more. It used to be called 'anti-expansionist' or something which made 0 sense because they're an expansionist race. I, me personally, suggested on the official forum they change the name to 'The price of beauty' because they seem like dudes that would spend a lot of time installing golden doilies in every corridor. This is my greatest game development accomplishment. :smug:

You did a good thing, gamer.

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



I'm ready to once again be Horatio,

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

Mister Adequate posted:

I'm ready to once again be Horatio,
We are all Horatio.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Chomp8645 posted:

Legend wasn't an EA thing, was it?

It was. 4 factions at early access release. Amplitude does it so player feedback shapes the game.

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth

Mokinokaro posted:

It was. 4 factions at early access release. Amplitude does it so player feedback shapes the game.

A double edge sword.


GALLANT suggests the Horatio penalty be called "The Price of Beauty"

GOOFUS wants heroes modeled after Portal memes.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
ES and EL never really appealed to me, but I thought ED was a brilliant piece of mashing a bunch of genres together and it working quite well.

Hoping ES2 can capture the right balance for a good meaty 4x game.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Chomp8645 posted:

GOOFUS wants heroes modeled after Portal memes.

They obviously learned from that mistake. They moved to a lot stricter vetting of ideas for Legend.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

The Cultists in EL were a fan-submission, if I recall correctly. A pretty badass one.

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Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe
Yes. And they're doing the same idea for ES2 with the concept winner being The Unfallen. Tree people that spend population to grow infrastructure and ships.

https://steamcommunity.com/games/392110/announcements/detail/816663997172114045

The art side is still being worked on. It's amazing what the community comes up with though.

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