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Pyromancer
Apr 29, 2011

This man must look upon the fire, smell of it, warm his hands by it, stare into its heart

frajaq posted:

So any pointers at how to play as Cultists in Endless Legend? I like the idea behind them a lot, but the Only One City thing makes them weird to play, also not starting with actual soldier units...

Set a governor in your city, preferably cultist; he'll level quickly because your city will be massive soon. Go for food production early to get the ball rolling but also influence as you need it to convert villages.
Send out armies everywhere to convert all villages and get population, resources and free units, with one city you can run all boosters all the time. Also since your converted units are mercenary with privateering tech you can cause trouble without actually going to war. You should try to eliminate others early anyway.
Assimilate factions that give +% food/industry/science/influence to city.
Cultists are very dependent on map - on maps larger than number of players and archipelago maps it's much easier to play as them, as your converted villages won't be eaten by others as soon.

Pyromancer fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Sep 21, 2016

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Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!
Remember that as cultist you can sell the free units you get to the mercenary market.

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx
I think EL has too much stuff and would have benefited from dropping a few features for a smoother game.

I am especially thinking of the tactical combat system and equipping your units. That could have been an entire game by itself.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe
I do think some sort of auto-upgrade button would've been handy in the designer that just swapped everything out for the latest tier.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

Yeah units are cool and unique but the designer should have taken more from SMAC. It really should just be base units, melee/ranged or melee 'type' (like circular attacks etc) and one or two slots for unique modifiers like movement or adjacency bonuses.

The way weapons and armor upgrades work is a huge slog and each tier immediately obsoletes the previous which wrecks balance.

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx
I've now started to wonder whether you could make a mod that strips those things out.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

Maybe just have a single piece of 'armor' and weapons with no tiers for iron that lasts the entire game, with them made from resources giving them a minor damage/protection buff but a unique property for a big cost. That way you can build a few elite units that stand out but overall combat balance is mostly the same the entire game.

Leave the techs in as just ways to make those weapons and armor from the strategics. This also let's you kind of finesse some balance in for each race with a modifier that synergises with them. For example if era 4 armor gives a small adjacency buff to other units it would synergies super well for fallen lords and make that era a power spike.

Demiurge4 fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Sep 23, 2016

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx
Yeah, techs giving auto-buffs to units is the obvious simple go to. No need for default armour or w/e just buff the base unit.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Demiurge4 posted:

Maybe just have a single piece of 'armor' and weapons with no tiers for iron that lasts the entire game, with them made from resources giving them a minor damage/protection buff but a unique property for a big cost. That way you can build a few elite units that stand out but overall combat balance is mostly the same the entire game.

It's a good idea and wouldn't interfere with the Vaulters' holy resource gimmick since they just stripmine that poo poo anyways.

Spanish Matlock
Sep 6, 2004

If you want to play the I-didn't-know-this-was-a-hippo-bar game with me, that's fine.

Riso posted:

Yeah, techs giving auto-buffs to units is the obvious simple go to. No need for default armour or w/e just buff the base unit.

That kind of happens as is. As you advance in technology era the units you produce start at higher levels.

Lichtenstein
May 31, 2012

It'll make sense, eventually.
I have an Endless confession to make.

The Forgotten are my favorite faction :ohdear:

NmareBfly
Jul 16, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


So this thread has made me start poking Legend again and I don't have any of the expansions. I'm not sure that I want to drop the 40ish bucks on getting all of them at once, and with a new one coming out how likely are they do do a better-priced complete edition or something? If I were to get them piecemeal is one better than others? On the face of it Guardians looks to be the one but iono.

I only ever play single player, if that makes a difference.

E: looking at the bundles, there isn't even a dlc-only one. They all include the base game. Maybe I should wait for tempest and see?

NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Sep 23, 2016

Generic Octopus
Mar 27, 2010

NmareBfly posted:

So this thread has made me start poking Legend again and I don't have any of the expansions. I'm not sure that I want to drop the 40ish bucks on getting all of them at once, and with a new one coming out how likely are they do do a better-priced complete edition or something? If I were to get them piecemeal is one better than others? On the face of it Guardians looks to be the one but iono.

I only ever play single player, if that makes a difference.

They'll probably put everything on a sale when they put out the next xpac, that's what they've done in the past.

Lunsku
May 21, 2006

If you're willing to jump the gun now, Humble Store has their sale going on over the weekend and Endless Legend is up. Base game + Guardians + Shadows at about 20 €, dunno how much in bux. Shifters not around at all for some reason.

https://www.humblebundle.com/store/search/developer/Amplitude%20Studios

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

NmareBfly posted:

So this thread has made me start poking Legend again and I don't have any of the expansions. I'm not sure that I want to drop the 40ish bucks on getting all of them at once, and with a new one coming out how likely are they do do a better-priced complete edition or something? If I were to get them piecemeal is one better than others? On the face of it Guardians looks to be the one but iono.

Shadows is probably the best one to grab. It adds the really fun espionage system and another quite unique faction.

Shifters would be next as it gives you more options for affecting the winters.

Guardians would be last. The legendary deeds and buildings are nice to have but the actual guardians aren't really big deals.

Tempest, which I'm beta testing (and will talk about more once I'm allowed, though most of the info is on Amplitude's forum and will be added to the OP when I get the chance) is going to either be above or below Shadows. Opening up the oceans has a major impact on the gameplay.

Generic Octopus
Mar 27, 2010

Mokinokaro posted:

Tempest, which I'm beta testing (and will talk about more once I'm allowed

There's no NDA; you can talk all you like, just don't post pics or vids yet since the assets aren't finished.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

Lichtenstein posted:

I have an Endless confession to make.

The Forgotten are my favorite faction :ohdear:

They have their uses, they're just so different from everyone else you need to unlearn a lot of habits.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Generic Octopus posted:

There's no NDA; you can talk all you like, just don't post pics or vids yet since the assets aren't finished.

Amplitude wasn't too clear on that so I was being cautious.

So...Tempest impressions. I'm loving the ocean gameplay though I admit it's a little disappointing that everyone uses the same ships (save the Morgawr who have a couple really powerful sea units instead of land ones) but it's obviously a budget issue. Naval combat works really well outside of a few smaller bugs currently.

The sea contains ruins similar to the land ones as well as large sea fortress structures guarded by Formenians (basically a sea-based minor faction you can't assimilate.) Capturing these forts lays claim to nautical territory, expanding your borders. Additionally each fortress has up to three resource nodes, usually starting with and unlocking the others based on the highest research tier in the game (globally, not per empire.)

Now as for the Morgawr, I really like them. Similar to the Forgotten they're a really different implementation of mechanics, heavily based on the expansions newest feature (in this case, naval warfare.) They are built completely around being monsters on the ocean, but weak on land. Any of their cities with a water tile can build navy units from the get go and their settlers/land units are amphibious, able to embark without a tech research.) They also have the ability to spend influence (and they gain it rapidly due to holding ocean easier) to turn pacified villages hostile or to take immediate, invisible control of roaming wild armies. Their sea units (the vore and leviathan) are both incredibly potent versus other ships.

Diplomatically, they can employ the Black Spot against one empire at a time, allowing anyone to freely attack that empire and granting them extra rewards for doing so. Similar to the market ban, influence can be spent by the affected empire to remove it and the cost decreases the longer the effect is in play.

Tempest really is likely the most significant expansion for EL. It's also probably the last as Amplitude transitions into Endless Space 2 development.

Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Sep 23, 2016

NmareBfly
Jul 16, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


Lunsku posted:

If you're willing to jump the gun now, Humble Store has their sale going on over the weekend and Endless Legend is up. Base game + Guardians + Shadows at about 20 €, dunno how much in bux. Shifters not around at all for some reason.

https://www.humblebundle.com/store/search/developer/Amplitude%20Studios

Nice! Thanks. < $4 for Shadows (I get 10% from the humble monthly) suits me better than $13. I'll wait on the rest for a bit but that was about what I was looking to drop for some more systems to fiddle around with to tide me over until Tempest.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

There are so many ways that de-pacifying villages could be used to gently caress with your enemies. I love it, it's a form of subterfuge we haven't had access to before.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Speedball posted:

There are so many ways that de-pacifying villages could be used to gently caress with your enemies. I love it, it's a form of subterfuge we haven't had access to before.

Catspaw (the ability to mind control roaming armies for a small bit of influence) shouldn't be underestimated either. It's pretty fun to suicide them to soften up a target.

Dallan Invictus
Oct 11, 2007

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
Is it possible to have (with mods maybe?) more than 8 empires in a Legend game? It seems kind of a shame that you can't include every faction in a game by default.

Capntastic
Jan 13, 2005

A dog begins eating a dusty old coil of rope but there's a nail in it.

Defiance Industries posted:

So the Hissho are a minor race now. I would imagine the Pilgrims will get demoted similarly, hopefully not Horatio though.

If there's no Horatio I probably won't pre-order. I'll buy it on sale, but, well.

Avasculous
Aug 30, 2008

Demiurge4 posted:

Maybe just have a single piece of 'armor' and weapons with no tiers for iron that lasts the entire game, with them made from resources giving them a minor damage/protection buff but a unique property for a big cost. That way you can build a few elite units that stand out but overall combat balance is mostly the same the entire game.

I suggested this exactly on the official forums 18 months ago and got ignored. It's such a pain in the rear end trying to figure out if it's cost-effective to give X unit adamantium gloves, boots and a helmet... No then I can only build 2, what about just the boots and helmet and glassteel gloves? No, I don't produce enough glassteel for that. Oh gently caress, I wanted that adamantium trinket for my hero, start over. gently caress it, I'll just wait until I have 100 stockpiled and upgrade everything.

The thing that's especially bizarre to me is the sheer number of trinkets they crammed in that I can't imagine anyone ever using. I can't even remember an example, but there's like 20+ with ridiculously circumstantial abilities and pretty nontrivial costs.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe
Endless Space 2's early access launches October 6th.

https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/blog/467-coming-to-steam-early-access-on-october-6th


EDIT: \/ Sadly no, but I'd guess mid to late October myself.

Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Sep 27, 2016

Blooming Brilliant
Jul 12, 2010

Any news of when Tempest drops? Really looking forward to it from what I've read about it.

I want to play as fishmen :krakken:

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002

It can't be that long from now considering Civ6 is launching Oct 21 and there's no way in hell they want to go up against that.


One thing that kind of annoys me about EL is that there just isn't that much 'normal' music for the game it seems? Like there are a lot of musics in the game but the default cycle for Summer + Non Battle just seems to be like 2-3 songs? There's 41 tracks in the soundtrack, I feel like it should be playing more of them.

Haven't looked at modding for this game before, maybe that's something you can do? :v:

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

So a few youtubers have got their hands in the game and as usual my reaction is 'you're not playing optimally, God! What do you mean you picked food over happiness! You're vodyani, happiness is percentage boosts!'

Game looks good though. Can't wait to play it.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Yeah it looks like it's got Amplitudes polish all over it so I'm excited.

It's a bit unfair to ask with them working on an expansion to EL and ES2 itself, but is there any more announced stuff for DotE? Would love some Endless Space character packs. Gimme a Craver hero or a Sophon Berserker is something silly.

Lichtenstein
May 31, 2012

It'll make sense, eventually.
What's the best way to powerlevel a hero in EL?

Pyromancer
Apr 29, 2011

This man must look upon the fire, smell of it, warm his hands by it, stare into its heart

Lichtenstein posted:

What's the best way to powerlevel a hero in EL?

Do you have tons of cash? Assign the hero as governor of brand new city and buy every possible building in it

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Flipswitch posted:

It's a bit unfair to ask with them working on an expansion to EL and ES2 itself, but is there any more announced stuff for DotE? Would love some Endless Space character packs. Gimme a Craver hero or a Sophon Berserker is something silly.

They did release the rescue team pack not too long ago so it's still getting some support. They do consider development finished though.

Also, in ES2 news there will be a 100 turn limit in the initial release ala EL

Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Sep 30, 2016

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

Pyromancer posted:

Do you have tons of cash? Assign the hero as governor of brand new city and buy every possible building in it

There's also a couple of luxury resources, one in particular doubles hero XP. And, of course, make sure you have a massive garrison filled with as many units as possible because that's how you grind up XP the slow way for heroes.

IAmUnaware
Jan 31, 2012

frajaq posted:

So any pointers at how to play as Cultists in Endless Legend? I like the idea behind them a lot, but the Only One City thing makes them weird to play, also not starting with actual soldier units...

It's very common for people to advise killing anyone who settles near you, but diplomacy actually is very effective as well. If you are at peace with or allied with another player they can't attack your stuff (without dropping to cold war first), which includes your converted villages, even if those villages are in that player's territory. In my most recent Cultist game (on Endless) I just made friends with everybody and then converted everything I could afford to and rode to an easy diplomatic victory. The AI will periodically drop you to cold war and eat a village, but they'll often just let you re-up your relationship the same turn and then you can go and re-convert that one village.

Spanish Matlock
Sep 6, 2004

If you want to play the I-didn't-know-this-was-a-hippo-bar game with me, that's fine.

IAmUnaware posted:

It's very common for people to advise killing anyone who settles near you, but diplomacy actually is very effective as well. If you are at peace with or allied with another player they can't attack your stuff (without dropping to cold war first), which includes your converted villages, even if those villages are in that player's territory. In my most recent Cultist game (on Endless) I just made friends with everybody and then converted everything I could afford to and rode to an easy diplomatic victory. The AI will periodically drop you to cold war and eat a village, but they'll often just let you re-up your relationship the same turn and then you can go and re-convert that one village.

Protip: Reconverting a destroyed village costs more influence, but it lets you get an immediate free unit for your hordes too!

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
ES2 going into early access next week? Interesting... Hmm, of the four factions revealed, 2 of them are new. This bodes poorly for any of the previous ES factions.

I seem to be unusual in this, but the faction I'd most like to see return is the Sowers. The idea of of a sentient terraforming machine that views everyone else in the universe as irrelevant at best and potential obstacles at worst in a grand quest to terraform the universe strikes a chord with me as a "cool alien", and the very nature of ignoring food and planetary climate entirely has a lot of potential for creating unique gameplay (which to be fair, wasn't fully realized in ES). I mean, seriously, think of how weird they could be. They don't care about having an empire or controlling space, they just care about terraforming planets. Heck, maybe they invite other species to live on their planets when they're done with them. Use the immigration system or something? I just think they have the most potential to be re-imagined in a post-EL world.

If there's only one Human faction, then I think UE makes the most sense. Maybe they're not all that interesting, but all the other humans were essentially defined as spin-offs of the United Empire. Horatio are fun flavor-wise, but honestly not all that interesting gameplay-wise. They just reproduce quickly. You could do something with the cloning, but personally I can't think of much beyond the hero cloning they had before. The new space vampires are Pilgrims+ in terms of being nomadic and religious, and while Vaulters seem to be a fan favorite, they've always felt too "creator's pet" for me to actually enjoy. They just don't seem that interesting to me, in either flavor or mechanics. It's just another science faction.

Harmony are interesting, so I guess they'd fit in. Or maybe they'd just get replaced with a similar anti-dust faction, like how the Amoebas apparently got replaced by frogs as peaceful trade specialists. Automaton are... I've never really understood why a futuristic SF game had clockwork robots. That just seems really silly to me, and not in a good way like Horatio. Their mechanic also wasn't that great, imo. As I recall they were the result of a fan contest, but so were the Cultists in EL and those were more interesting to me. Hissho are already out, but good riddance. And... I can't recall the others.

Clarste fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Oct 2, 2016

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


I'd like to see UE maybe take on qualities from one of the smaller splinters (Pilgrim/Horatio/Shredyn) as a product of their story. I think that would be fun. The plot could be a power struggle and who wins is decided by how you've built your empire.

Triskelli
Sep 27, 2011

I AM A SKELETON
WITH VERY HIGH
STANDARDS


I have a strong love/hate relationship with the Automatons because they're exactly what I was doodling in notebooks during my "steampunk" phase.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Defiance Industries posted:

I'd like to see UE maybe take on qualities from one of the smaller splinters (Pilgrim/Horatio/Shredyn) as a product of their story. I think that would be fun. The plot could be a power struggle and who wins is decided by how you've built your empire.

This is kind of what I expect. An Empire with the other human factions as basically political parties inside it. Amplitude has hinted at Vaulters but I doubt they're the major faction as we already have a science race.

They've said the game will be an even split between old and new groups so we have two returning ones and one new one left to be revealed (the 8th slot is the contest winner which is a race of sentient trees called The Unfallen)

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Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Clarste posted:

I seem to be unusual in this, but the faction I'd most like to see return is the Sowers. The idea of of a sentient terraforming machine that views everyone else in the universe as irrelevant at best and potential obstacles at worst in a grand quest to terraform the universe strikes a chord with me as a "cool alien", and the very nature of ignoring food and planetary climate entirely has a lot of potential for creating unique gameplay (which to be fair, wasn't fully realized in ES). I mean, seriously, think of how weird they could be. They don't care about having an empire or controlling space, they just care about terraforming planets. Heck, maybe they invite other species to live on their planets when they're done with them. Use the immigration system or something? I just think they have the most potential to be re-imagined in a post-EL world.

I like the Sowers, but one of the existing minor races is the Sowers in all but name with the backstory changed slightly.

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