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Judging by public sentiment and a rough overview of the numbers, about a third of NFL starting quarterbacks are bad, and not just left of the bell curve bad, but not good. You could replace them with 20 other backups and they wouldn't be much worse. The NFL is a TV show and everything is built around distributing talent evenly for an entertaining TV product, the good teams find ways around parity rules by scouting better, getting QBs to take less money, cheating in interesting ways, etc. But without a decent qb on every team, everything suffers, QBs who are just good enough to be good, (Matt Stafford) get huge deals that eat entire salary capss How do we add 10 or 12 competent to good quarterbacks to the NFL, because the present method of upper middle class 6'4 Texas and California kids going to 50k per year qb camps/getting personal coaching is just not satisfying demand. This is my crackpot theory: There is potential for 10 or 15 more Tyrod Taylors in the NFL right now, super athlete dual threat qbs who didn't grow up upper middle class in california/ texas and thusly didn't have hundreds of thousands of their parents dollars spent on skill development. And maybe the high school/college coaching they did have was lighter on reading defenses/throwing mechanics/etc because they were good enough athletes to succeed without needing all of that. If about a third of the starting qbs in the league are bad, it means more competent qbs need to be developed. In the long term the NFL needs to find a way to subsidize QB instruction for promising athletic kids whose parents can't afford tons of specialized coaching. Teams need to let those guys develop internally like Taylor. Maybe even add another practice squad slot exclusively for a QB. Even if you only produced 1 decent qb every other year by that method it would have a huge impact. Over time It seems like a much less intractable problem than "there aren't enough hyper athletic hyper skilled 6'9 NBA Sgs" because the physical bar is so much lower. There are orders of magnitude more elite athletes from 6'1-6'4 who are smart enough to play quarterback, they just need to be taught.
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Sep 16, 2016 02:53
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You are a doofus, a buffoon, a clown, a dumb rear end, and a bung hole
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Sep 16, 2016 02:54
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I feel like riding the bench for a few years really helps a developing quarterback.
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Sep 16, 2016 02:55
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trevor siemian
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Sep 16, 2016 03:00
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I swear there was an article in 1971 in like Inside Sports or Sports Illustrated about how there weren't enough good QB's anymore.
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Sep 16, 2016 03:02
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I want there to be multiple very bad QBs playing in games each year. Just like andey dalyton.
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Sep 16, 2016 03:02
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Mel Mudkiper posted:You are a doofus, a buffoon, a clown, a dumb rear end, and a bung hole Those are the exact words John Sculley used when firing Steve Jobs from Apple. You're going to see, once people realize that QB teaching resources are being wasted, everything is going to change cheesetriangles posted:I feel like riding the bench for a few years really helps a developing quarterback. I don't know how many examples we have because of the immense pressure to play high pick rookies.Aaron Rodgers is the obvious one, there's Tyrod, and Tony Romo.
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Sep 16, 2016 03:03
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Dejan Bimble posted:Those are the exact words John Sculley used when firing Steve Jobs from Apple. drew brees, philip rivers, eli manning, tom brady
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Sep 16, 2016 03:06
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Ross Angeles posted:drew brees, philip rivers, eli manning, tom brady Good list ! Darth Brooks posted:I swear there was an article in 1971 in like Inside Sports or Sports Illustrated about how there weren't enough good QB's anymore. It was probably true, and I'm no Billy Barnwell or Football outsider so I cant quantify any of this, but it really seems like there are a lot of potential quarterbacks who aren't being reached by the sort of coaching that could turn them into good NFL players. Does it matter as the world heads to global climate catastrophe? Probably not, but it seems like a problem that could be solved!
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Sep 16, 2016 03:11
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Dejan Bimble posted:Good list ! the super athletic guys that fit your description seemed to be stashed away on practice squads a lot. previously, guys like warren moon and doug flutie were shipped off to the canadian league to develop their games, but that seems like anathema now
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Sep 16, 2016 03:15
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MY NIGGA D-LINK posted:the super athletic guys that fit your description seemed to be stashed away on practice squads a lot. previously, guys like warren moon and doug flutie were shipped off to the canadian league to develop their games, but that seems like anathema now It's semi comparable to NBA teams trying to teach really long athletic guys to shoot threes, someone goes from pedestrian to immensely valuable. It's a long shot, but if the coaching starts earlier, I think it could really work Teach the elite athlete and reap the rewards
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Sep 16, 2016 03:19
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Dejan Bimble posted:It's semi comparable to NBA teams trying to teach really long athletic guys to shoot threes, someone goes from pedestrian to immensely valuable. It's a long shot, but if the coaching starts earlier, I think it could really work i think the quarterback crisis is rooted in college offenses playing entirely differently than the nfl. the spread offense really took off because one supremely athletic guy can destroy a team of average college athletes, but when they advance, those guys are meeting the best of the best elite competition in a concentration most of these guys have never had to deal with before. so it becomes a matter of craft and technique to stand out among elite competition across the board. the guys you are thinking of may already be too far behind at the position of quarterback to ever catch up at the nfl level. that's why you see quarterbacks with little technical skill change positions, mostly to wide receiver, in the pros.
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Sep 16, 2016 03:29
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There isn't a QB crisis. There has always been like 5 elite guys and 10 guys total who are capable of winning a super bowl at any given time.
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Sep 16, 2016 03:31
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Ehud posted:There isn't a QB crisis. There has always been like 5 elite guys and 10 guys total who are capable of winning a super bowl at any given time. I think its less the guys we have now and more the dearth of guys we have coming up
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Sep 16, 2016 03:31
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I think its less the guys we have now and more the dearth of guys we have coming up There are dudes already in the league who are young and good Real good already: Cam Wilson Luck Maybe real good: Carr Jameis Potential to be good: Bortles Mariota Print the shirts: Tannehill
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Sep 16, 2016 03:39
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i second the idea that it's all coaching. i'd say the good thing is that it looks like some of the college game is coming to the pros, after the chip kelly hype and failure kind of ruined the read option stuff. 
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Sep 16, 2016 04:37
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tyrod is a bad qb tho, OP
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Sep 16, 2016 04:50
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I think its less the guys we have now and more the dearth of guys we have coming up How often do you see really great guys coming up? Brett Favre sat his first year and then was amazing as soon as he came off the bench. When the Ram's QB went down and Kurt Warner was announced as the team's QB my reaction was "The Seattle running back is now playing QB?" The dude had been bagging groceries, that's how high profile he was and he went on to win the SB. Tom Brady was a backup at a his college team and was drafted in the sixth round. Tony Romo went undrafted. Joe Montana was a third round pick. Johnny Unitas was a ninth round pick who signed with Baltimore as a free agent.
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Sep 16, 2016 04:52
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Let me try to see what this might have looked like back in 1990. This is based on my recollection of their careers to that point more or less, hence Kosar being listed as ok instead of terrible, which he was in that particular year. Same in the other direction for Jay Schroeder who had a career year but pretty much sucked overall. The number is their age at the time. Good/Great QBs who you knew at the time were awesome: Joe Montana (34) Warren Moon (34) John Elway (30) Dan Marino (29) Jim Kelly (30) Middle of the Road: Jim Everett (27) Randall Cunningham (27) Dave Kreig (32) Boomer Esiason (29) Phil Simms (35) Bernie Kosar (27) Sub-Par (at the time in Vinny's case) Vinny Testeverde (27) Ken O'Brien (30) Jay Schroeder (29) Marc Wilson (33) Don Majkowski (26) Mark Rypien (28) Bubby Brister (28) Jay Schroeder (29) Steve DeBerg ( 36) -- pains me to put him here because he was fun in 1990, but man your career sucked Steve. Young guys who you didn't know how they'd end up (Rodney Peete actually had the best year out of these guys): Troy Aikman (24) Steve Walsh (24) Rodney Peete (24) Chris Miller (25) Billy Joe Tolliver (24) Timm Rosenbach (24) Jeff George (23) Rich Gannon (25) Steve Young note: he was 29 in 1990 but the only time he'd ever seen the field as a season starter to this point was with Tampa. He did look good in backup situations with San Fran (10 starts over four years). We can bicker about Sub-Par/middle of the road and I'm probably off on a few guys, but generally I'd think the number of guys in each tier is about right. So other than Marino all of the "great" quarterbacks were 30+. All of the young guys flushed out other than Aikman and late career Gannon. So by my count 5 teams absolutely in love with their QB, 6 teams more or less ok with their situation, 8 trying to develop a QB, and 9 who'd love to upgrade. Feel free to do your own ranking if you disagree with any of this. I was alive during this time but it isn't like I was a super well versed football fan in the 80s. Grittybeard fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Sep 16, 2016 |
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Sep 16, 2016 05:24
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Ken obrien needs his own tier
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Sep 16, 2016 05:27
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In 1990 the Patriots went 1-15 under coach Rod Rust and their best QB was... uh... Steve Grogan's rotting corpse? Dude was half dead in loving 1986! 
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Sep 16, 2016 17:29
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I do like the idea of a protected QB slot on the practice squad, something like a long term Redshirt program. It could be cool to lock a guy up for say 3 years, but after 3 other teams can make offers that a team would have to match (think Restricted FA) for an additional 2 years. That way you have a guy for 5 years that can't be poached, doesn't take a roster spot, and can be moved up and activated at any time.
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Sep 16, 2016 17:47
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OP is wrong, we're about to experience a QB renaissance. The last decade of five teams dominating the playoffs because of their quarterbacks will be an aberration.
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Sep 16, 2016 18:46
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We should get rid of the forward pass
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Sep 16, 2016 18:54
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Azhais posted:We should get rid of the forward pass
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Sep 16, 2016 19:01
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NFL needs to quit relying on college slaves and create a real minor/development league.
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Sep 16, 2016 19:11
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-S- posted:NFL needs to quit relying on college slaves and create a real minor/development league. I bet teams would love to draft HS QB's before they could get ruined by gimmick college offenses and poor coaching
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Sep 16, 2016 19:41
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I hate what college recruiting has done to HS football so it'd be cool to see what being one step less removed from the money would do to it
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Sep 16, 2016 19:48
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Nodoze posted:I bet teams would love to draft HS QB's before they could get ruined by gimmick college offenses and poor coaching I mean, they could make this happen if they really wanted to. The owners aren't cool with that though.
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Sep 16, 2016 19:56
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OP you are incorrect
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Sep 16, 2016 20:02
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sam bradford lmao
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Sep 16, 2016 20:10
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i literally don't care if the art of quarterbacking disappears and sends us into a Football Dark Age as long as the Packers also get a lovely quarterback.
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Sep 16, 2016 23:47
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NC-17 posted:OP is wrong, we're about to experience a QB renaissance. The last decade of five teams dominating the playoffs because of their quarterbacks will be an aberration. yeah
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Sep 17, 2016 02:19
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Carson Wentz and Blake Bortles is the new Brady/Manning except good-aligned.
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Sep 17, 2016 05:04
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Nodoze posted:I bet teams would love to draft HS QB's before they could get ruined by gimmick college offenses and poor coaching That way they'll be free to ruin them with their own bad coaches
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Sep 17, 2016 05:10
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Parmesan Basil posted:Carson Wentz and Blake Bortles is the new Brady/Manning except good-aligned. We'll find out something hosed up about the new crop of QBs in time. Tom Brady used to be a good person, it's impossible to sustain success and popularity without something real bad surfacing. Roethlisberger has the rape, Brees the torture, Wilson the corporate whoring, Rodgers the homosexuality
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Sep 17, 2016 05:16
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Honestly I think there are lots of good QBs, there are just a lot of dumb and bad teams with dumb and bad coaches who can't utilize them properly. QBs get way too much credit for everything, but they can fall victims to the system and surrounding talent pretty hard. Good coaches and patient, supportive front offices. That's the real shortage.
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Sep 17, 2016 06:21
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Real hurthling! posted:tyrod is a bad qb tho, OP I accept that my example of Tyrod might be bad. Let's see if I can phrase this in tortured NFL analyst style: I'm trying to say that there are a lot of guys who could be receiving coaching that would lead them toward median NFL competency and they're not getting that coaching. It's all going to a slice of tall upper middle class California/Texas boys. If the NFL wanted to improve its product, it would find a way to reach those other kids . And if that's not possible, they should consider a permanent developmental quarterback slot per team.
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Sep 17, 2016 06:29
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Dejan Bimble posted:I accept that my example of Tyrod might be bad. Let's see if I can phrase this in tortured NFL analyst style: I'm trying to say that there are a lot of guys who could be receiving coaching that would lead them toward median NFL competency and they're not getting that coaching. It's all going to a slice of tall upper middle class California/Texas boys. If the NFL wanted to improve its product, it would find a way to reach those other kids . And if that's not possible, they should consider a permanent developmental quarterback slot per team. The NFL would be improved across the board with a legitimate development league. QB and oline play seem to be in some trouble. I'd be down to see development teams in tweener cities across the country.
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Sep 17, 2016 19:58
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Nodoze posted:I bet teams would love to draft HS QB's before they could get ruined by gimmick college offenses and poor coaching High school quarterbacks play in gimmicky offenses too
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Sep 17, 2016 20:22
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