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Pellisworth posted:That's a good question, I do know you're right and the Inuits have an almost entirely animal-based diet so fasting seems like it'd be tough. They also would be dealing with serious vitamin D deficiency since they're getting all their vit D from eating animals (especially seafood) rather than sunlight. they might not, like some 18th century russian could have looked around at the ice and gone "maybe we just won't tell them that bit" ed: i think there are also some people who are mongolian-adjacent and Orthodox
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Sep 24, 2016 10:13
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Holy poo poo, this: https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/1125274424229347/ CN: Satanist prayer. I know most of you are not really worried about the church of Satan( nor is there any reason to be), but if you don't want to watch a guy spaz out while praying to Satan in a courtroom, well, that's what it is. For the rest of you, check it out, dude is really in the zone 
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Sep 24, 2016 10:21
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HEY GAL posted:they might not, like some 18th century russian could have looked around at the ice and gone "maybe we just won't tell them that bit" I thought the Orthodox line on fasting was more or less "it is a very good thing you should do if you're able to."
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Sep 24, 2016 10:24
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Pellisworth posted:I thought the Orthodox line on fasting was more or less "it is a very good thing you should do if you're able to."
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Sep 24, 2016 10:29
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Mr Enderby posted:That's kind of sad. Maybe start something up? Honestly, apart from people with their kids, I'd guess most people who make time for church on a Sunday would be willing/glad to have a biscuit and a chat afterwards. Many city parishes have actually started offering after-coffees. It may have some effect. I think there are multiple factors to why church isn't a social thing around here anymore. Staying to chat used to belong to Sundays but that was in a time where people lived even more apart, didn't have easy transportation and didn't have newspapers or more modern media channels. Eating together is not traditional and it kinda has to be invented. (Actually it's not a church thing only - people don't gather together in large numbers like they used to. For example many sports clubs are in trouble.) One big thing is, however, that the age-old tradition of doing stuff together in benefit of others or the whole community (which even has a term of it's own in Finnish: "kökkä") is slowly eroding. People will pay for food whenever our parish has a soup sale and happily either eat their lunch there or buy soup home for later. It's getting five people to assist the cook that's horribly hard. Also, your parishes won't probably function if people stop participating. Having 200 people in a parish means that you feel you're part of it. The parish I belong to has about 2000 people and in local scale it's absolutely miniscule rural parish. Non-participation is the norm. We have seven paid employees, we're not a community as much as a literally tax-paid service provider. But we'll do what we can and may God help us to reach out for more people.
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Sep 24, 2016 11:02
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Blurred posted:Is there any information on what kind of religious beliefs ordinary peasant folks had during the Medieval period? This is an excellent question and I don't want it to get lost in kitchenchat. I need to review some sources before I post from the hip. Devotio Moderna comes to mind, which gives us the Imitation of Christ.
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Sep 24, 2016 15:22
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At least here in Denmark, a monk or other bookworm would go from the monasteries and live in villages, both to oversee marriages and stuff, but also to teach catholic doctrine to those who lived there.
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Sep 24, 2016 16:30
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Blurred posted:I've read a few books about the medieval period generally, and about Christianity / the Church in the medieval period specifically, and they always seem to gloss over this part. It seems obligatory to mention that the Church was always facing in uphill battle in suppressing pagan superstitions during this period, but that's about it. Is there any information at all about the role that Christianity played in the lives of ordinary people during this period? Many peasant revolts in the medieval period had a distinctive eschatological character, the one in 1381 most notably. Facing overwhelming odds, peasants still rebelled against their masters because they thought they had God on their side and that they were ushering in the Millenial Kingdom. So religious fervor was pretty high amongst the peasantry, since they were fully willing to die for their beliefs. On the other hand, Millenarianism (taking action in the world in order to bring about the Millenial Kingdom) was never a Catholic teaching and in fact was soundly condemned by the Vatican. So clearly there's a transmission of religious ideas among the laity, and it's not like they were all just sitting around for a priest or monk to tell them everything they needed to know. At the same time, the peasantry undoubtedly retained pagan practices. Think of something like dowsing today; it has unquestionably pagan origins but nobody's gonna call you a bad Christian for doing it or accuse you of witchcraft. There were undoubtedly pockets of people in central and eastern Europe who had no access to churches, but it's doubtful that they were entirely unaware of Christianity. They likely even identified as Christian while retaining almost all elements of their traditional pagan religion. When it comes to Europe, Christian/Pagan isn't really a binary thing. For peasantry in areas with access to churches, yeah, they'd go to Mass every Sunday (and tithe when harvest rolled around; church taxes were compulsory in a lot of areas, that's why simony was so lucrative) but still believed in magical talismans and you better believe whenever they got sick they're asking for help from the the old lady who lives in a hut on the edge of town rather than the priest. But if they got really sick it'd be time to call for a priest to come administer the Last Rites. While this sort of syncretism annoyed the Vatican, it was seen as harmless superstition at worst.
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Sep 24, 2016 18:18
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The Phlegmatist posted:Many peasant revolts in the medieval period had a distinctive eschatological character, the one in 1381 most notably. Facing overwhelming odds, peasants still rebelled against their masters because they thought they had God on their side and that they were ushering in the Millenial Kingdom. I just got a major sad. Waaaah.
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Sep 24, 2016 18:32
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I don't have time to look it up/reply properly, but you should also consider about which part of the Middle Ages you're talking about, both temporally and geographically. There is a world of difference between, say, a rural German peasant of the 8th century and a Parisian living around 1400
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Sep 24, 2016 18:34
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Edward III famously ordered English men and boys to practice archery on Sundays, and I'm fairly sure the practice was to be overseen by the village priest. Sounds like priests were fairly close to village life in 14th century England. Edit: Oh, hi thread! Unbaptised sorta-agnostic here.
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Sep 24, 2016 18:37
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the devotio moderna is not medieval, it is modern hence the name
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Sep 24, 2016 18:38
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The Phlegmatist posted:Many peasant revolts in the medieval period had a distinctive eschatological character, the one in 1381 most notably. Facing overwhelming odds, peasants still rebelled against their masters because they thought they had God on their side and that they were ushering in the Millenial Kingdom. So religious fervor was pretty high amongst the peasantry, since they were fully willing to die for their beliefs. On the other hand, Millenarianism (taking action in the world in order to bring about the Millenial Kingdom) was never a Catholic teaching and in fact was soundly condemned by the Vatican. So clearly there's a transmission of religious ideas among the laity, and it's not like they were all just sitting around for a priest or monk to tell them everything they needed to know. thanks for giving me a good idea on a new research topic; buddhist and christian peasant revolts, the ways in which religious ideology influences revolutionary action. i'll work on that after i write my essay comparing and contrasting the life and work of ignacio ellacuria and takagi kenmyo
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Sep 24, 2016 19:12
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Keromaru5 posted:Yeah, I go to a Greek church, and most of the women there keep their heads uncovered, except for a few convert families. lmao I'm glad it's not just Russian churches that have this problem. quote:When I first started going, someone told me it had to do with when the Greeks were under the Ottomans. pfft, no. It dates back to the ERE and was adopted by the Rus at some point after their Christianization, but before Third Rome Theory. HEY GAL posted:it's making me think: does anyone here know how native Alaskans fast? #JustConvertThings
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Sep 24, 2016 21:27
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Siivola posted:Edward III famously ordered English men and boys to practice archery on Sundays, and I'm fairly sure the practice was to be overseen by the village priest. Sounds like priests were fairly close to village life in 14th century England. Slowly but surely all of MilHist thread will be dragged here.
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Sep 24, 2016 22:40
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JcDent posted:Slowly but surely all of MilHist thread will be dragged here. Somewhere in Germany, Hegel checkmarks "Phase One"
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Sep 24, 2016 23:06
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project defenestration is a go, repeat it is a go
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Sep 24, 2016 23:10
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HEY GAL posted:project defenestration is a go, repeat it is a go Defenestrate this, ye of the pikes and fancy hats.   
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Sep 24, 2016 23:23
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Mo Tzu posted:thanks for giving me a good idea on a new research topic; buddhist and christian peasant revolts, the ways in which religious ideology influences revolutionary action. i'll work on that after i write my essay comparing and contrasting the life and work of ignacio ellacuria and takagi kenmyo Keep me posted if/when you do this, it is extremely my jam.
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Sep 24, 2016 23:40
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P-Mack posted:Keep me posted if/when you do this, it is extremely my jam. It'll be at least a year to learn Japanese and probably longer trying to teach myself historiography but it'll get done maybe
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Sep 24, 2016 23:46
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Ok, I got home later and more drunk than I thought I would, so this will have to be a bit shorter. Re: Christianity in the Middle Ages, the questions of Where? and When? really do play a very big role. The Medieval Era spans a good 1000 years, after all. Generally speaking (and keep in mind that my focus lies on Catholicism in the 17th and 18th century where things were very different): during the Early Middle Ages, all of Europe was extremely rural. There were only very few cities, and even those would hardly pass as such even when viewed from a late medieval perspective. When you encountered a priest he was more likely a monk than not; the parish system was still in development and diocesan priests were definitely seen as "less holy" than their monastic counterparts and so those who chose to enter the clergy usually took the monastic route. This meant on the other hand that there were only relatively few churches covering large swathes of land. For many people going to church simply wouldn't have been all that feasible. Therefore your average rural European in, say, the 8th century would probably have relatively few contact to the Church in his or her life, as long as they weren't living close to a monastery. They would have been Christian, sure, but probably not in a way looked upon kindly by the educated clergy. The predominant role of monasteries in the clergy meant on the other hand that those monks who were priests probably did know very well what they were doing, seeing as monasteries were *the* centres of learning in these times. This was different after the huge wave of urbanisation hitting Europe in the 12th and especially 13th century, where existing cities grew rapidly and the various European monarchs methodically established hundreds of new cities as well. Monasteries were overtaken by universities in their importance as educational centres and by cities in their role als economic hotspots. The rise in population also meant a huge rise in clergy. The parish system was well developed by now, with those parishes where you had to walk for more than one or two hours before reaching the church becoming a minority (they still continued to exist far beyond though, sometimes even well into the 20th century), new churches and chapels sprung up everywhere etc. The social aspect of a rising population also meant that comparatively more people chose a career in the Church. On the other hand religion was excessively urbanised too, with most priests both being city slickers by birth and staying there too - the image of the village priest who himself grew up on a farm is largely one of the 19th and 20th centuries; for the longest time before that priests were predominantly an urban phenomenon. That, combined with the tendency of this age for priests to collect lots of parishes and other prebendaries together with either no replacement or a very cheap one being sent instead, meant that rural Europeans of that time had a much different problem. There were enough priests going around, but all the capable ones were looking for a nice job somewhere in the city, and your country parish was either sent a loser who didn't cut it in the big league or nobody at all. There are plenty of reports from exasperated bishops in the 15th century for example of them encountering priests in the far reaches of their dioceses who wouldn't even be able to recite the most basic prayers, much less read and write. So the peasants of that time had in a way little contact with the Church too, or at least the parts of the Church who were able to properly communicate its dogma. The religious undersupply of rural regions can also be observed as late as the Baroque, btw: the "agro romano", i.e. the rural areas directly around Rome were not only extremely poor, but also dramatically undersupplied with priests, even though the centre of western Christendom was only a few miles away! The advent of the printing press and the standardisation efforts of Trent especially in the area of priestly education did a lot to spread official teaching among the general population, though it was less the peasants being more able to inform themselves about stuff but better educated priests being able to teach them. The confessionalisation of the Early Modern Era was eventually the last step in bringing the beliefs of the common people and of the Church together, culminating in the extreme overlap in positions and mutual support showcased by Catholics between about 1850 and 1950. The large disconnect between many Catholics and official dogma is in this sense nothing new, but instead a revert to a much older status 
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Sep 25, 2016 00:25
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Cythereal posted:Defenestrate this, ye of the pikes and fancy hats. Hegel probably likes all of these. The first two look like prisons, the last one looks like some kind of retro-future euthanasia clinic, or maybe a white leather couch turned outside-in.
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Sep 25, 2016 03:43
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Hegel probably likes all of these. The first two look like prisons, the last one looks like some kind of retro-future euthanasia clinic, or maybe a white leather couch turned outside-in. these are good because church is truly a prison for the soul or something i like how the first one uses light to make a cross that's a neat architectural design
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Sep 25, 2016 03:51
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The first two really do have an incarceration-y vibe going.
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Sep 25, 2016 03:51
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Cythereal posted:Defenestrate this, ye of the pikes and fancy hats. That bit from A History of Britain where they CGI the stained glass and statues back into a whitewashed church isn't on Youtube 
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Sep 25, 2016 04:15
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I checked at my local Catholic church today and it turns out they do have refreshments after the Sunday service, so that's my bad.
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Sep 25, 2016 04:57
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Mo Tzu posted:thanks for giving me a good idea on a new research topic; buddhist and christian peasant revolts, the ways in which religious ideology influences revolutionary action. i'll work on that after i write my essay comparing and contrasting the life and work of ignacio ellacuria and takagi kenmyo 420 go ikko ikki erry day 
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Sep 25, 2016 06:40
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is it gonna be quantitative or qualitative because i'd be very interested to know which religions and/or denominations revolt the most
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Sep 25, 2016 18:17
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Qualitative because revolucion is not a contest
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Sep 25, 2016 18:19
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:is it gonna be quantitative or qualitative because i'd be very interested to know which religions and/or denominations revolt the most Without knowing exact what definition, I would probably be most interested in knowing which religion/denom revolts the hardest
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Sep 25, 2016 19:26
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imstarvingbuthaveaccesstoweaponsism
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Sep 25, 2016 19:30
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Hard to go harder than Taiping, so crazedtianity is probably the answer.
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Sep 25, 2016 19:31
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I think I'm in the buddhist camp, actually. Few people actually carry the minerals to light themselves on fire to protest something!
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Sep 25, 2016 19:58
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many early communists were also orthodox, qed
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Sep 25, 2016 20:19
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Don't forget the radical Anabaptists. Yeah those cool pacifist Amish dudes wearing funny clothes living in insular communities who bake great pies?? At one point they were a roving Millenarian proto-communist terrorist sect that managed to take over Münster and establish a theocracy for about a year. And also killed everyone that stood in their way (also women were considered communal property, so, uh...let's not start rooting for the underdog too quickly here.) The city was eventually retaken by the expelled bishop and the Anabaptist leaders were tortured and killed in the marketplace, then had their bodies displayed in cages at St. Lambert's Cathedral for everyone to see. The cages are still there, although the bones were removed at some point. 
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Sep 25, 2016 21:25
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Wasn't there an episode of Hardcore History about that?
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Sep 25, 2016 21:27
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I had the great to fortune to visit Rome this week. Saw all the big sigth including the vatican. The st pieters basilica was wonderful. A mass was being held when i visisted so that added a certain weird atmosphere to it. I cant blame you catholics for going maximum bling on your churches. It adds up to creating place that seems apart from ordinary reality. But its bit too rich for my blood in a way.
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Sep 25, 2016 21:58
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Mo Tzu posted:revolucion is not a contest
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Sep 25, 2016 22:05
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It is, and it's one with no consolation prizes given.
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Sep 25, 2016 22:15
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If you weren't Eastern European I'd argue that point but as an armchair American Marxist I got nothing
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Sep 25, 2016 22:24
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