Christianity Thread II: Y'all need Jesus

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Christianity Thread II: Y'all need Jesus

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Worthleast: Nov 25, 2012; Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned

genola posted:

I'm Presbyterian, but I just came back from visiting Roman Catholic mass (Mission Dolores in San Francisco) for the second Sunday in a row today. From a Protestant perspective with regards to using Latin or no, I feel it's still extremely beautiful and reverent, and I love kneeling during the words of institution.

They had a sweet pipe organ too.

Hey welcome to the thread buddy. Mission Dolores is gorgeous, but were you in the old Mission chapel itself, or the monstrosity 1950s basilica next to it?

HEY GAIL posted:

Hey.

What do you call it?

Crossing the Bosphorus?

The Fourth Crusade?

# ¿ Sep 19, 2017 16:19

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 21:13

Worthleast: Nov 25, 2012; Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned

Bel_Canto posted:

Thomas is a first-rate thinker who synthesized Catholic doctrine up to that point in fascinating, provocative, and not always workable ways.

And he recognized it. Aquinas is the great accumulator and synthesizer, but he never intended to be the last word. His Summa even starts by pointing out that it is for beginners, and we are supposed to go from there, not stop there.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2017 16:58

Worthleast: Nov 25, 2012; Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned

The Phlegmatist posted:

Everyone got excited about the possibility Cardinal Burke & co. would make a filial correction to the pope but SSPX beat them to it.

I assume His Holiness used it as toilet paper.

Reading through it, will comment later.

Here are the seven heresies the letter accuses the pope of holding or allowing to be taught.

just lol if you don't latin posted:

His verbis, actis, et omissionibus, et in iis sententiis libri Amoris laetitia quas supra diximus, Sanctitas vestra sustentavit recte aut oblique, et in Ecclesia (quali quantaque intelligentia nescimus nec iudicare audemus) propositiones has sequentes, cum munere publico tum actu privato, propagavit, falsas profecto et haereticas:
(1) �Homo iustificatus iis caret viribus quibus, Dei gratia adiutus, mandata obiectiva legis divinae impleat; quasi quidvis ex Dei mandatis sit iustificatis impossibile; seu quasi Dei gratia, cum in homine iustificationem efficit, non semper et sua natura conversionem efficiat ab omni peccato gravi; seu quasi non sit sufficiens ut hominem ab omni peccato gravi convertat.�
(2) Christifidelis qui, divortium civile a sponsa legitima consecutus, matrimonium civile (sponsa vivente) cum alia contraxit; quique cum ea more uxorio vivit; quique cum plena intelligentia naturae actus sui et voluntatis propriae pleno ad actum consensu eligit in hoc rerum statu manere: non necessarie mortaliter peccare dicendus est, et gratiam sanctificantem accipere et in caritate crescere potest.�
(3) �Christifidelis qui alicuius mandati divini plenam scientiam possidet et deliberata voluntate in re gravi id violare eligit, non semper per talem actum graviter peccat.�
(4) �Homo potest, dum divinae prohibitioni obtemperat, contra Deum ea ipsa obtemperatione peccare.�
(5) �Conscientia recte ac vere iudicare potest actus venereos aliquando probos et honestos esse aut licite rogari posse aut etiam a Deo mandari, inter eos qui matrimonium civile contraxerunt quamquam sponsus cum alia in matrimonio sacramentali iam coniunctus est.�
(6) �Principia moralia et veritas moralis quae in divina revelatione et in lege naturali continentur non comprehendunt prohibitiones qualibus genera quaedam actionis absolute vetantur utpote quae propter obiectum suum semper graviter illicita sint.�
(7) �Haec est voluntas Domini nostri Iesu Christi, ut Ecclesia disciplinam suam perantiquam abiciat negandi Eucharistiam et Absolutionem iis qui, divortium civile consecuti et matrimonium civile ingressi, contritionem et propositum firmum sese emendandi ab ea in qua vivunt vitae conditione noluerunt patefacere."

These propositions all contradict truths that are divinely revealed, and that Catholics must believe with the assent of divine faith.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2017 19:38

Worthleast: Nov 25, 2012; Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned

quote:

By these words, deeds, and omissions, and by the above-mentioned passages of the document Amoris laetitia, Your Holiness has upheld, directly or indirectly, and, with what degree of awareness we do not seek to judge, both by public office and by private act propagated in the Church the following false and heretical propositions:
1). 'A justified person has not the strength with God�s grace to carry out the objective demands of the divine law, as though any of the commandments of God are impossible for the justified; or as meaning that God�s grace, when it produces justification in an individual, does not invariably and of its nature produce conversion from all serious sin, or is not sufficient for conversion from all serious sin.'
2). 'Christians who have obtained a civil divorce from the spouse to whom they are validly married and have contracted a civil marriage with some other person during the lifetime of their spouse, who live more uxorio with their civil partner, and who choose to remain in this state with full knowledge of the nature of their act and full consent of the will to that act, are not necessarily in a state of mortal sin, and can receive sanctifying grace and grow in charity.'
3). 'A Christian believer can have full knowledge of a divine law and voluntarily choose to break it in a serious matter, but not be in a state of mortal sin as a result of this action.'
4). �A person is able, while he obeys a divine prohibition, to sin against God by that very act of obedience.�
5). 'Conscience can truly and rightly judge that sexual acts between persons who have contracted a civil marriage with each other, although one or both of them is sacramentally married to another person, can sometimes be morally right or requested or even commanded by God.'
6). 'Moral principles and moral truths contained in divine revelation and in the natural law do not include negative prohibitions that absolutely forbid particular kinds of action, inasmuch as these are always gravely unlawful on account of their object.'
7). 'Our Lord Jesus Christ wills that the Church abandon her perennial discipline of refusing the Eucharist to the divorced and remarried and of refusing absolution to the divorced and remarried who do not express contrition for their state of life and a firm purpose of amendment with regard to it.'

I think that nothing will come of this, and the conservative bishops will continue to interpret things their way, and the liberal bishops will continue to interpret things their way. It is for the pope to act and clarify the situation, and he has not shown himself one to be pushed around in this manner.

As a side note, this is all Joseph Shaw and Chris Ferrara. Bp Fellay only heard about it and signed after it had already been presented to the pope.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2017 21:33

Worthleast: Nov 25, 2012; Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned

chernobyl kinsman posted:

it only counts if its in latin, the language spoken by jesus himself

I have some bad news for you.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2017 22:15

Worthleast: Nov 25, 2012; Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned

Great podcast Thirteen and Senju. I think we had the aliens discussion in one of these threads.

I disagree with Thirteen about the question of pirated DVDs. Theft is an injustice and requires restitution, and knowingly buying stolen goods constitutes theft as well. But theft admits of parvity of matter. If I steal a cookie, it is wrong, but not as wrong as stealing a car. Generally the line between grave matter and light matter has been drawn according to the value of a day's wages. Now, at least in the US, a DVD has less value than a day's wages, so it would be light matter and venial sin.

Senju Kannon posted:

"oh my god the church is stuck in the sixties"

It is! Just look at the architecture and music! Chesterton said that if the Church ever gets married to an age she would be a widow in the next.

# ¿ Oct 8, 2017 01:45

Worthleast: Nov 25, 2012; Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned

StashAugustine posted:

does greed factor into the gravity of theft? like a poor man robbing a bank seems less bad than a rich one

(also in that scale of theft putting others in danger is something to be concerned about)

Yes, as well as where it is taken from. If I take $20 from Bill Gates, it does not hurt him that much but is still sinful. If I take $20 from a homeless man who needs that money for lunch, then it can be gravely sinful. If I take $20 from the collection plate at Church, it takes on the character of sacrilege.

One of the great things the Church teaches about theft, is that if you are starving, stealing food is not theft. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36190557

# ¿ Oct 8, 2017 01:59

Worthleast: Nov 25, 2012; Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned

Man, I was hoping there was a really interesting discussion about justice going on :smith:

# ¿ Oct 8, 2017 14:43

Worthleast: Nov 25, 2012; Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/13/brave-passengers-board-last-ever-flight-666-hel-friday-13th/

quote:

Fearless flyers laughed in the face of superstition when they boarded the last ever Flight 666 to HEL on Friday the 13th.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2017 18:21

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 21:13

Worthleast: Nov 25, 2012; Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned

Adding on to tithechat, according to Thomistic teaching you are only supposed to give from your extra goods, not from what you need to feed your family and all that. Also note that the idea is of giving goods, not cash. Like we used to give tomatoes from our garden to the cloistered Poor Clares, which had the added bonus of getting to chat with them through the grille.

# ¿ Oct 18, 2017 16:27

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Christianity Thread II: Y'all need Jesus

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