Christianity Thread II: Y'all need Jesus

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Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Of course, then there's the monks who apparently run into demons all the time. St. Silouan once had a demon appear in front of his icons, expecting him to bow.

# ¿ May 26, 2017 23:40

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 07:02

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Numerical Anxiety posted:

In the New Testament, yeah, Satan is the proper name of the king of the devils; see Mark 3 and Matthew 4 for specific instances. The history is a bit complicated though. In Hebrew "Satan" is a generic word that means something like "adversary" or "opponent" - it can mean something like accuser too, which is probably where the legal connotation crops up. The word appears variously in the Old Testament, and not always referring to a specific figure. It does sometimes, however, appear with an article, indicating that it denotes a specific figure - The Adversary, whatever we are supposed to understand by that, whether a heavenly D.A. (like in Job), or something demonic (in the prophets). In any case, the gospel passages mentioned above indicate that the term was understood as a name by the first century CE, and yes, that of the devil.

The ancient Greek adds a further wrinkle, since the Septuagint translates Satan -- at least, the proper name -- as διάβολος, "slanderer," and that name got taken up by the New Testament as well. Interestingly, in comparing instances of "satan" vs. "diavolos," I found one instance in the LXX -- 1 Kings 11:14 -- that just straight up transliterates "satan": "καὶ ἦσαν σατὰν τῷ Ἰσραὴλ πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας Σαλωμών" - "and they were adversaries to Israel all the days of Solomon."

In my googling to double-check all that, I also found out that there's of course a metal band called Diavolos.

Cythereal posted:

For me, personally, I come down on the side of thinking demons and devils and Satan are, especially in certain Evangelical circles, a way to shift the blame for bad things happening away from ourselves - or to give agency to something that was just lovely happenstance or an accident.

Yeah, that's definitely there. I tend to think the devil has two great tricks: one, to convince us he doesn't exist; and two, to convince us he's more powerful than we can possibly imagine. For what it's worth, I've built up the impression that the most the devil usually does is just give us ideas. We're the ones who think about them, plan them, and execute them.

Numerical Anxiety posted:

so one is forced to concoct increasingly bizarre systems as to how the Illuminati, the Bliderberg Group and the Elders of Zion relate to one another.

Well, haven't they all been assumed at some point to perform Satanic rituals at some point?

Keromaru5 fucked around with this message at 01:47 on May 27, 2017

# ¿ May 27, 2017 01:44

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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So the Cult of Kek is actually a Cult of Ba'al?

# ¿ May 28, 2017 00:55

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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There was a history professor at my old (Episcopal) church who once said his house was haunted, and that he befriended the ghost.

# ¿ May 28, 2017 19:51

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Mr Enderby posted:

This is why I'm against loving around with demons. Even if my belief that demons are real is wrong, people who try to engage with them end up hurting mentally ill people or otherwise causing evil. There's nothing to be gained with playing in that particular sandpit. Refer this stuff to your bishop, and walk away.

When I was Episcopalian, one priest I was friends with liked to point me to the section on exorcism in one of the extra service books. After a quick summary, the only instruction is to, yes, call your bishop.

# ¿ May 29, 2017 05:56

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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HEY GAIL posted:

agnus dei is primarily a western symbol and was even when we were united; it was even prohibited by one of our councils.

if you want orthodox agnus dei representations, you want the Italian Byzantine churches, which predate the Council of Trullo.
https://iconreader.wordpress.com/2011/10/17/the-lamb-of-god-in-orthodoxy-a-history-in-icons/

I found that same blog post last night, and it's the first time I've ever encountered that icon of the baby Jesus in the chalice.

I'd like to ask the thread's prayers for the soul of an old friend of my parents. He passed away Friday, and the funeral's tomorrow. He was a former monk, an iconographer, a Society for Creative Anachronism member (that's how we knew him), and a die-hard liberal. He was posting anti-Trump and anti-GOP links on Facebook right up to the end. I like to think he'd have fit in here.

*EDIT* Oh yeah, and he's going to be buried at a nearby Orthodox monastery. The funeral has quite a schedule. Panikhida at a local OCA church, then burial service, then all-night vigil, then a liturgy the next morning, then the actual burial at the monastery.

Keromaru5 fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jun 11, 2017

# ¿ Jun 11, 2017 18:57

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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That's what I thought. Is this how all Orthodox funerals go, with the all-night vigil and everything? This'll be my first one, and I'll only be able to make it to the burial service this afternoon. I was telling a friend about it, and saying that's how I want to go out: with somebody staying up all night chanting psalms for me.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2017 16:10

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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That was a lovely service. My mom and I went together. There were about 6 priests in attendance, including the cool nerdy one I like from the next county. After the service, I got him and my mom geeking out about the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

(NOT to be confused with certain other Golden Dawns we might name.)

cis autodrag posted:

my death plan is to be buried straight in the dirt with a tree planted on top. embalming and burying in a casket is just one final "gently caress you" humans give to the earth, ensuring that even in death the earth cannot reclaim even one iota of the resources they robbed from it.

the funerary rite is extremely complicated and occupies 90% of my will however. several psychedelic drugs are required for all attendees. i don't know why my wife thinks i'm so morbid, so what if ive been planning my funeral since i was 12.

Now that I think about it, I'm a little surprised there aren't more eccentric billionaires building elaborate and extravagant tombs. Somebody out there has to have had a top-of-the-line carnival haunted house built for mourners to pass through before paying their respects.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2017 03:22

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Tias posted:

Being the new "catholic" upper crust, the drug cartel kingpins have taken up the baton.

Yikes. I was hoping for the less murderey sort of rich eccentrics.

On the other hand, I'm probably underestimating how much murder is involved in rich eccentricity.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2017 14:58

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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From what I understand, Lilith comes primarily from Judaism, and is discussed in the Talmud and Kaballah, but the name does appear in Isaiah, and has roots all the way back in Sumerian mythology. The Septuagint apparently translates that occurrence of "Lilith" with Onocentaur, the Vulgate translated it as "Lamia," and the KJV gives it as "screech owl."

# ¿ Jun 15, 2017 17:16

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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One thing I love about the Divine Liturgy is the explicit reference to the Seraphim, "six-winged, many-eyed" in one of the priest's prayers.

In Cyrillic, there's even a rare variation of the letter O just for the many-eyed Seraphim: multiocular O.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2017 13:24

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Sometimes I wonder if maybe The Simpsons was on to something in that episode where Bart is attracted to Catholicism by the gruesome martyrdom stories.

"And in art class, we painted St. Joan burning at the stake, and mine was the grossest!"

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 22:04

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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HEY GAIL posted:

catholic early childhood education is still bloody as hell and i loved it
i assume the orthodox ones are the same way

I wouldn't know, but when our Metropolitan made one of his rare visits a couple years ago, the kids did a presentation where they read him biographies about their patron saints. I think there were only a couple patrons who didn't die horribly, and that's because they were the Virgin Mary and the Archangel Michael.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2017 13:26

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Both my childhood Catholic patron and my current Orthodox one were monks who died of natural causes. Oh well.

*EDIT* Well, okay, one died of ergotism, which is a form of poisoning, but that seems like it might have just been something he ate.

Keromaru5 fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jun 21, 2017

# ¿ Jun 21, 2017 17:30

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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A preemptive kudos to anyone planning to name their kids Lawrence. "Turn me over. This side's done."

Just be careful about St. Sophia the Martyr and her daughters. The first time I read that it just about ruined my whole day.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2017 17:54

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtRhivoPrZg

Discuss.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2017 01:23

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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My priest actually preaches pretty frequently against Christian Zionism, explaining that the modern political state of Israel has no significance in Orthodox eschatology. He talked about this in his homily yesterday, in fact. With the 4th of July coming up, he talked specifically about nationalistic "us vs. them" or "God is on our side" or "God is on Israel's side" narratives. He used the genealogies in Genesis for Moab, Ishmael, and Esau, which are given between Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob's narratives, to show that even when one side is chosen, that doesn't mean God has necessarily rejected the other; he still makes nations out of the non-chosen descendants of the patriarchs, and they still have a place in his plan. He also related it to yesterday's reading, with Jesus and the Centurion, where Jesus praises the latter's faith above that of Israel itself.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2017 17:17

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Probably depends on what you think about Roko's Basilisk.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2017 01:33

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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# ¿ Jul 8, 2017 02:11

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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So yesterday my mom told me she wants to become Orthodox, but can't convince my dad to do it, and they both kind of feel like it's a hassle to convert at their age.

I'm... not quite sure how to feel about this.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2017 15:47

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Caufman posted:

I can't wait for Disney to buy the Westworld franchise, proving again that Satan is the master of this world until Yeshua returns in glory.

One of my fears is that someday Disney will buy Nintendo. At that point, they'll basically own my childhood.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2017 02:46

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Josef bugman posted:

Yeah I got a bit confused too. Thinking about it, has there ever been a really deep look into the whole cult of Disney? Something along the lines of Jesus Camp? Because I would love to watch that.

People have been critiquing and commenting on Disney's power and influence in American culture as a corporate behemoth for decades, though I don't know of any book or documentary that brings it all together.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2017 19:36

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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I don't really have a dog in the gender identity fight; the important thing as I see it is more just what the series has already established. The Doctor's a member of an alien species that regularly undergoes radical physical and psychological transformations to extend their lifespans. Others have already switched genders; and while it may have been in a Comic Relief special, they have turned the Doctor into a woman before. I mean, I don't know if I'd call it dysphoria, but I think I'd have a pretty strong reaction just if I suddenly woke up in a hospital bed looking like Jon Pertwee. But then I'm not a Time Lord.

To my mind, it's not all that different from Lt. Dax, who's already been multiple men by the time we meet her in Deep Space Nine. And she seems similarly nonchalant about it, because she's from a species that doesn't expect its host body or sex to stay the same.

Also, this:

Disinterested posted:

I'm of the opinion that a) this is of tenuous relation to Christianity b) my threshold for wanting to talk about doctor who is just hearing it's name mentioned.

Personally, I checked out with Capaldi. Nothing against him, just never got around to it.

Back to Christianity:

Assuming nothing comes up, my mom and I will be going to a cathedral in Alaska this Sunday! Pray that my travels will be safe and my flights will not be delayed.

I'm still kind of bewildered at her wanting to be Orthodox. I mean, it's not like I was trying.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2017 04:13

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Last week I read an article about how the ancient Greeks and Romans believed men and women produced semen, semen was produced by every part of the body, and IIRC, hair was where semen was stored. Babies were made by mixing male semen and female semen together. It was largely offering a possible rationale for why Paul tells women to wear veils in the church.

Pellisworth posted:

edit: oh, I'm probably stealing her thunder but one of the anecdotes she told me was how early modern Germans perceived pubescent boys. Girls bleed when they have their first menstruation, so when young boys have nosebleeds, well, uh, that's gotta be the same thing right??

Well, that certainly gives new meaning to nosebleeds in anime.

HEY GAIL posted:

ssh, nobody tell him about the sobor

edit: wait, Ware? Is he talking about Bishop Kallistos? wtf

No, I read it, and he's talking about this black pastor who just left the SBC over Trump and racism. It's a pretty bad article.

Keromaru5 fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Jul 19, 2017

# ¿ Jul 19, 2017 13:29

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Mr Enderby posted:

Hair covering for women was the norm across most of the ancient Mediterranean. I don't think the Pauline stricture needs much explaining, other than he was coming up with a post-hoc justification for what would have been standard practice anyway (men with uncovered heads, women with covered).

Well, yeah; the article was largely trying to put the stricture into a larger context.

StashAugustine posted:

wait I'm not parsing this, what's the context?

So as I said, the article is all about a black pastor who's leaving the Southern Baptist Convention because of its difficulty with race and Trump. Dreher is largely accusing this pastor of putting his race above his church. The passage he's quoting here is from the Black Lives Matter website, which he's using to paint the pastor as some kind of absurd radical. Nevermind that extended families are actually far more traditional than nuclear, and are probably closer to what Dreher himself wants with the Benedict Option.

It's a pretty bad article.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2017 20:39

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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HEY GAIL posted:

edit: keromaru5, what happens if you tweet that at him

Probably something like this:

https://twitter.com/RedMotovilov/status/887385131979333632
https://twitter.com/RedMotovilov/status/887583900897247232

# ¿ Jul 19, 2017 21:05

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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HEY GAIL posted:

as far as i know, all these people are Orthodox. There are also religious people who pray for demons, but if you believe in the supernatural at all I'd recommend NOT doing this unless you're at a very high level of practice.

Aren't all Orthodox encouraged to pray for the dead regardless? I've read plenty of accounts by monastics, saints, and pious laypeople who were all certain they'd rescued a loved one from hell after death. And IIRC, one of the kneeling prayers in Pentecost prayers even has a petition specifically for those currently in hell. (And of course, without a direct revelation, we have no way to know who specfically is there.)

pidan posted:

a dude from my mum's village knew a dude in purgatory. It was a burning man who lit his way home from the pub until the villager told him "may God repay you for this" which is how people said thank you back in those days. Then the burning dude stopped burning and went to heaven.

I do wonder if this sort of thing still happens.

I may have to start using that phrase myself.

SavageGentleman posted:

Part of that understanding is the idea that 'Sin' is anything that removes us mentally from Divinity and makes us forget that we are actually part & mirrors of the Creator (irrespective of religion).

People who spend most of their lives following material as well as mental obsessions and ignored their souls' needs get a really rude awakening when they die - not because God will punish them, but because they have spent most of their lives denying the most important parts of themselves.

So to sum it up: they did all they could to bury their connection to the creator AND at the same time, the material things, people or situations they were clinging to are no longer there.

Postmortem mental breakdown time!

So some people might get 'stuck' in cycles of terror / denial / self pity and have a really lovely time (yet still going ) - which an all-loving God hates to see, but we have our free will, so the Creator and his angel dudes patiently wait until these people stop throwing themselves against the same metaphorical wall again and again and are opening themselves to Divine companionship. Then it's time for healing and all the other amazing stuff.

It might be a bit esoteric, but I really like this interpretation because it emphazises unfailing Divine love & forgiveness as well as our own free will.

Also regarding the pity one could feel for other people possibly on the way to 'Purgatory' - I'm going full Origen with Apocatastasis and I see this ordeal as a learning experience a soul goes through - what pleasure can be greater than to 'rediscover' God and even finding out They were never really removed from us and loved us all the time

As I recall, Dante depicts souls intentionally and joyfully going to Purgatory to work off their sins.

But what you're describing isn't far from how Dorotheos of Gaza--and more recently, Archimandrite Sophrony--described hell. If we spend our lives feeding our passions, then once we die, the soul will still be addicted to them. And without the body, the soul will have no way to satisfy them.

At least, this is what souls are said to experience before the Last Judgment. Technically, as I understand it, hell now and Hell then are two different things. It's only after the Judgment that Hell is considered to become permanent.

---

Personally, my view is that on Judgment Day, we'll look at Christ, at Goodness and Love personified, and know exactly how we did or didn't measure up. And then we have all eternity to deal with that.

Keromaru5 fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jul 20, 2017

# ¿ Jul 20, 2017 17:26

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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The Phlegmatist posted:

Yeah prayers for the dead are encouraged for the Orthodox, same for Catholics. What HEY GAL was referring to is that it's not a Catholic practice to pray specifically for souls currently in hell, only an Orthodox one.

Ah, gotcha.

*EDIT* - I now love the phrase "jailbreaking hell," by the way.

Keromaru5 fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jul 20, 2017

# ¿ Jul 20, 2017 18:22

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Oh yeah, today's St. Maria of Paris's feast day. St. Maria, pray for us!

# ¿ Jul 20, 2017 20:11

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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So I got back from a trip to Alaska yesterday.

Got to attend Liturgy at St. Innocent Cathedral, where I venerated a relic of St. Herman (not sure what it was, forgot to ask), and was asked by multiple people if I was there for the pilgrimage. Apparently they're getting people together for a pilgrimage to Spruce Island in August. Good for them!

The day before my left, my sister, who lives up there, took me to see the spirit houses at Eklutna. It was fascinating to see how some people were commemorated. One was a railroad worker, and his grave had a fence with a hammer and railroad spike. Another had a Coke bottle and bag of candy. One had a tiny bottle of Jack Daniel's inside their house.

That cemetery also had a shrine to St. Varnava. It struck me as an interesting juxtaposition: a Serbian saint born in Gary, Indiana, commemorated in a Native Alaskan cemetery.

StashAugustine posted:

I also just got back from a community production of The Rhinoceros which pokes fun at people who essentially logic their way into believing all sorts of awful things because they never bothered to check whether it coincides with reality

It's fitting that the passage you quoted mentioned Atlas Shrugged. Some years back I read Goddess of the Market, a biography of Ayn Rand, and that was definitely my biggest takeaway. Rand made every effort to make sure her philosophy was as "logical" as possible, but actively resisted suggestions (by other libertarians!) of real-world circumstances that might have had some bearing.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2017 05:47

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Catholic News Service posted:

The archbishop of Ottawa expressed regret that several Catholics were shocked at the sight of a giant robotic spider perched on Notre Dame Cathedral.

Source.

Looks like it was all part of this event. So in the Archbishop's defense, I'd seen footage of Long Ma before, and it is pretty badass.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2017 17:16

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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I'd say Despair's really more of a passion, and all passions deserve pity and help.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2017 21:40

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Bel_Canto posted:

sometimes they motivate us to do good things, but it's not because those things are good. catholic and orthodox moral theology both consider this less than ideal: doing good things is better than not doing them because it's still participating in God's grace, but doing good things because they're good is better by far. thus, the passions must be tamed not only to avoid evil but also to better participate in the good.

I guess I'd just add that taming the passions doesn't mean suppressing or destroying them; they can be sublimated and harnessed toward doing good for the sake of good: divine eros instead of lust, righteous anger instead of regular anger, imitation of the saints instead of envy, etc... St. John Cassian says that despair, for example, can be turned toward a healthy and productive repentance and struggle for perfection.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2017 23:46

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Cythereal posted:

This says something about us as a species, but I'm not entirely sure what.

Remember that question from earlier about the sexual revolution being a mistake?

# ¿ Aug 9, 2017 04:11

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Catholic and Orthodox spiritual writers frequently recommend extreme skepticism toward visions. IIRC, St. Silouan blamed one for keeping him away from real grace for a long time.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2017 20:13

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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For me, it's important to remember that Paul himself would eventually be executed; so obedience to the government is never totally absolute, even for him.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2017 03:54

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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That's certainly how the Assembly of Bishops uses it in their statement on Charlottesville.

# ¿ Aug 19, 2017 21:21

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Just for reference, here's what the Orthodox Study Bible says about Galatians 3:28-29 (boldface theirs):

quote:

We share one human nature in Christ. Therefore, valuing people based on opinions and ethnicity (neither Jew nor Greek), pride and social status (neither slave nor free), or gender (neither male nor female) has no place in the Church. All are one in nature, and so all are equal in dignity.

# ¿ Aug 19, 2017 23:50

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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Everything everyone's saying is true. Having quit Citalopram last Fall, only to go back on in Spring after almost mistaking depression for a call to monasticism, I'll be praying for you.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2017 04:43

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 07:02

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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The Phlegmatist posted:

Or the general "have you talked to your priest about this" but a lot of the hyperdox unsurprisingly have self-selected into schismatic churches so their clergy probably agrees with them.

Matthew Heimbach, in particular, associates with a priest from a schismatic jurisdiction that actually deposed said priest for his white nationalist activities. You can read the Spiritual Court notes here.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2017 19:31

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