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Kyoko and Sayaka "Don't worry, Sayaka." "It's lonely being by yourself." "It's fine. I'll stay by your side, Sayaka." - Kyoko Sakura dying with Sayaka Miki in Episode 9  Great minds think alike.jpg It is common to find yuri subtext in the magical girl genre, sometimes it develops into shippings or pairings created by fans, even if it was not part of the creator's original intention. The creators of the show may have been aware of this phenomenon, so they decided to exploit the same yuri subtext phenomenon when it came to the relationship between Kyoko and Sayaka. However, the yuri subtext mostly comes from Kyoko, making it one-sided; while it is officially recognized that Kyoko has feelings for Sayaka, it is uncertain what types of feelings they are. Fans would argue that Sayaka just never had the chance to return these feelings, and Kyoko was never really good in articulating them. Many fans point out that the reason these two are paired up together is because of their opposing personalities. Sayaka and Kyoko differ not only philosophically but their personalities are bound to cause clashes; yet they are not that dissimilar once you study these characters. Sayaka is an idealist who pursues the path of a hero of justice, she wants to emulate Mami as an example of an ideal Puella Magi. To Sayaka the gift of being a Puella Magi was something sacred to be used for good only and not for selfish acts. Kyoko on the other hand is more of a rogue who would only use her powers to satiate her base desires. Kyoko scoffs at the idea of using her powers to help others, instead she believes a Puella Magi should only help herself (even at the expense of others). To Kyoko there are no rules except her own. This unlikely pair started out as enemies and Kyoko was close on killing Sayaka, but as the story progressed it was Kyoko who took the first step to close their gap of distrust. Kyoko even went so far as to explain to Sayaka her painful past and to why she believes Sayaka is making a mistake with her life. But Sayaka refuses Kyoko's advice and subtly proclaims she will be a better Puella Magi than her, that she will still follow a righteous path. Sayaka's arrogance at first seems to anger Kyoko (it is not known if she is angry at Sayaka, at herself, or both) but this doesn't stop her from continually pursuing Sayaka to stop her from furthering her mistakes. (Some fans like to suggest that this moment would have alienated any other character from trying to pursue a friendship with Sayaka, yet it seems to have an opposite effect with Kyoko).  Fanart interpretation of Episode 9. Soon the roles are reversed in Episode 8 and 9. Sayaka finally admits that deep down she was no different from others, that she had selfish desires that were never fulfilled and that she regrets her decision on becoming a Puella Magi (like the love of a boy that went unfulfilled, or the jealous regret of saving a friend's life). She starts to see society as a selfish group who would only exploit others with no remorse for those who suffer. Sayaka finally understands that her decision brought nothing but unhappiness and regrets on her part. Betrayed by the world and by her ideals she soon falls into despair and darkness. It is because of this event that Kyoko soon starts to reveal a different side of her. With the loss of Sayaka, Kyoko starts to reclaim her older self. She admits to Madoka that there was a time she used to idealize stories of love, friendship, and courage but she abandoned those ideals when she lost her family. After seeing Sayaka's despair, Kyoko decides that she wants to save her and get the old Sayaka back. Kyoko was putting her faith on romantic ideals, a move that many would like to point out as being irrational and dangerous (even Kyubey agrees such a notion is illogical). Once Kyoko realizes that there is no way to save Sayaka, she decides to sacrifice her life so they could both be together. That way Sayaka wont be alone anymore. There is a division among fans regarding Kyoko's decision to die with Sayaka. There are those who say Kyoko did it as an act of love (the tragic yuri pair or maybe an act of friendship), others say Kyoko knew that even if she did survive it would only be a matter of time before she became a witch so she wanted to end her life her own way (a self sacrifice with practical motives). However, the reason that Kyoko would give up her own life to avoid becoming a witch looks a little unstable, as there is a scene in the episode where what appears to be the souls of both girls, colored respectively in blue and red, embracing each other tenderly before disappearing for good. By this logic, it is unlikely that Kyoko will make one last attempt to reach out to Sayaka before they both faded away if she never saw Sayaka as someone who is more than just a friend, and that the only purpose of her death was to escape her eventual fate of being a Puella Magi. To fans that support the yuri relationship, the reason that they find this pair strong and attractive is because they want Sayaka to be with someone who can love her and protect her. Kyoko was the only character who understood Sayaka's true nature (and her pain) since Kyoko admitted to her that she saw a fragment of herself in Sayaka. Kyoko was also the only one who chased after her to the bitter end, no matter the obstacles or how obstinate Sayaka was, Kyoko was still there for her. Last but not least, another strong indicator of Kyoko's feelings for Sayaka is shown in the last episode of the anime, where she is the only one who takes Sayaka's death the most personally, in spite of trying to brush it off as simply because they "finally had a chance to become friends". Kyoko fits the perfect role as Sayaka's protector and savior. The relationship between Kyoko and Sayaka may have not been accidental or a tease but created to heighten emotional investments by the viewers. It is possible that this was part of the creator's intention to emotionally move groups of hardcore fans who support a Sayaka/Kyoko pairing, thus making their demise in Episode 9 more tragic (or as fans put it a "Yuri Tragedy" ending).  Trivia: Prior to the mid 19th century, lonely delirious mariners referred to manatees as mermaids. The Melusine Legend and Kyoko's Soul Gem There is a Melusine legend that indicates that "a Melusina surfaces briefly every seven years as a beautiful woman or as a serpent, holding a small golden key in her mouth. Whoever takes the key from her will set her free and may claim her as his bride." In Episode 9, Kyoko undoes her hair and then uses her hairpin to pray, it is uncertain but it seems that her Soul Gem and her hairpin were fused together to create a new hairpin with a shape that resembles that of her father's religious symbol. After Kyoko's prayer she kisses the newly formed hairpin and tosses it into the air (before she destroys it with her spear), maybe as an offering to Sayaka to free her from her Witch form by sacrificing Kyoko's soul. The shape of the normal hairpin and of the Soul Gem fused hairpin looks like of a golden key. Sayaka's witch form could also be a reference to the Little Mermaid story. The Legend of Unicorns and Magical Horns During the Blu-ray version of Episode 9, there were wind-chimes depicting a Mermaid and a Unicorn. The unicorn is considered to be a wild, powerful, temperamental beast that could only be tamed by a maiden. A unicorn's horn is said to have the power to cleanse poisoned water and heal sickness. Another of its magical properties is the ability to lift curses and break illusions. It is suspected that Kyoko is compared to the unicorn because of its characteristics as well as the horn's magical properties. Both Kyoko and the unicorn are wild and temperamental creatures, free to roam and do whatever they want. Kyoko at one time had the power of illusion as well as the ability to break them ("shining light on illusions", according to a magazine article). The Unicorn's magical properties resides within its horn, and Kyoko's magical weapon is a spear. Fans speculate that Kyoko's spear could be a reference to a unicorn's horn. Another comparison is Kyoko's attempt to break Sayaka's curse during Episode 9. Since a unicorn's horn can magically cleanse poisoned water and the mermaid has connotation to the elements of water (in this case, the elements of water corrupted by the witch form), it could be interpreted as her attempt to purify its element back to its original form (in this case turn Sayaka back to normal). It is suggested that Sayaka is the maiden because she was the only one who was able to "tame" Kyoko. As Kyoko explained before, the only reason she got close to Sayaka was because Sayaka's idealism reminded Kyoko of her innocent, naive yet idealistic self. The Unicorn symbolism seems to be implied in the Puella Magi Madoka Magica Portable game. See Ophelia. Manga Differences In the anime, when Kyoko dies in the explosion, it is the end of her story. However, in the manga, after Kyoko dies, we are presented with an image of Sayaka's back as she is sitting on the floor, presumably waiting for someone. Kyoko approaches Sayaka from behind her with an Umaibō in hand as a sign that Kyoko wants to start all over again with Sayaka (the same way she did with Madoka; and perhaps redo her offering of food in Episode 8). But Sayaka, wearing a mischievous expression, instead grabs Kyoko's hand and pulls her down with her. This has been interpreted as Sayaka accepting Kyoko's affection for her; it can also be interpreted as Sayaka's preference to have Kyoko on the menu over the Umaibō.  Kyoko finally understands what is like to protect someone precious to her.  Several changes were made to this scene, yet the emotional impact remains the same.  This emotional afterlife encounter was not in the anime, not that I am complaining.  Kyoko Sakura, welcome to the afterlife. KyōSaya Subtext in The Rebellion Story At the beginning of The Rebellion Story movie, Sayaka and Kyoko are shown to be Madoka's classmates, and it's later revealed that Kyoko is staying at Sayaka's place. The girls have a much friendlier relationship where Sayaka essentially acts as a the straight man to Kyoko's fool. They also fight as a team together in battles. Unfortunately, this world is an illusion created by a witch's barrier. Interestingly, it's revealed to be Homura's witch barrier, which suggests that on some level Homura wants Sayaka and Kyoko to be together. Later on it's revealed that Sayaka came back from the Law of Cycles, and she is implied to have memories from previous timelines. This suggests that she has become aware of how much Kyoko cared for her, and how upset Kyoko became when she turned into a witch or vanished. (This creates an interesting parallel with Madoka and Homura's relationship - Sayaka could only understand Kyoko's feelings when she became part of the Law of Cycles, just as Madoka could only understand Homura's feelings when she became the Law of Cycles itself.) During the battle against Homulilly, Kyoko rescues Sayaka from a familiar, and she seems upset when she says that she remembered Sayaka was supposed to be dead. Sayaka comforts Kyoko and admits that while she thought she had no regrets when she died, it turned out she had one: Leaving Kyoko behind. They share a moment holding hands before Nagisa ruins it, much to Sayaka's displeasure. Kyoko seems to shed a single tear on her spear before she and Sayaka fight together against Homulilly's familiars. Later, Sayaka's witch Oktavia is shown fighting with Kyoko's spear, a clear indication of the bond between the two. After the battle finishes and Homulilly's barrier vanishes, Kyoko is shown to be unhappy that Sayaka has vanished again. At the end of the movie Homura creates a new universe where all the girls live happy lives. One of the scenes at the end of the movie has Sayaka and Kyoko enjoying a box of pocky together. Ultimately, Rebellion shows that Sayaka is now aware of Kyoko's feelings for her, whatever they may be, and to some extent she returns those feelings. At the very least, Kyoko and Sayaka have become friends who don't want to be separated again. Rebellion also shows that Kyoko and Sayaka would have become close friends under different circumstances.
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Sep 21, 2016 06:06
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Sep 21, 2016 06:11
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can we get some more fanart of the cast as manatees? asking for a friend, who is a manatee
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Sep 21, 2016 06:13
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I, too, think red and blue are colors that look good together.
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Sep 21, 2016 06:15
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Finally, I see the light!
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Sep 21, 2016 06:16
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As I once told mod, if the next Madoka thread gets gassed I'm going to make a thread where I livepost Madoka. Don't gas this thread.
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Sep 21, 2016 06:18
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here's my 50,000 word essay complete with snide jabs at the concept of shipping
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Sep 21, 2016 06:25
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i watched this show and shipped no one guess i'll show myself out
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Sep 21, 2016 06:26
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:As I once told mod, if the next Madoka thread gets gassed I'm going to make a thread where I livepost Madoka. A great outcome for everyone!
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Sep 21, 2016 06:29
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doesn't the very wiki you got that from have an article entirely on mami's boobs, or something madoka is a good show, which is good. this is my erudite commentary on gen urobuchi's mahou shoujo madoka magica
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Sep 21, 2016 06:32
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Gyra_Solune posted:doesn't the very wiki you got that from have an article entirely on mami's boobs, or something tl;dr 
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Sep 21, 2016 06:57
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https://a.pomf.cat/wixssi.webm shipping beat you might've missed: kyouko falls over sayaka in the rebellion op in an 'accidental kiss' moment.  
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Sep 21, 2016 08:36
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This is for my buddy Space.
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Sep 21, 2016 08:52
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Stexils posted:can we get some more fanart of the cast as manatees? asking for a friend, who is a manatee as manatees, probably not! but sealdoka and homuotter used to be popular.      sealdoka is powerful and uses madoka's trademark "wehihi" laugh. E: if you flip sayaka's あたしって、ほんとバカ line so that it becomes あたしって、ほんとカバ you get "I really am a hippo", and so there's a pixiv tag for sayaka as a hippopotamus Space Flower fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 09:10
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Sep 21, 2016 11:21
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I only got like halfway through Madoka before I just kind of fell off of it, but I thought Sayaka and Madoka made much more intuitive sense as a ship Also why do people draw the Mahou Shoujous as manatees?
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Sep 21, 2016 15:01
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Spiritus Nox posted:I only got like halfway through Madoka before I just kind of fell off of it, but I thought Sayaka and Madoka made much more intuitive sense as a ship if you had finished Madoka you would know the canon ships are Madoka/Homura, Sayaka/Kyoko and crushing despair/Mami
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Sep 21, 2016 15:18
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Excuse me but Mami-san is a devoted single mother to a cheese eating muppet.
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Sep 21, 2016 16:08
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do you know anything more soul-crushing than teenage single parenthood
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Sep 21, 2016 16:12
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I skimmed the old thread on occasion and would occasionally see those long essays someone wrote out so, really, it's like the Madoka thread never left.
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Sep 21, 2016 16:20
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a cartoon duck posted:do you know anything more soul-crushing than teenage single parenthood Aren't the Mahou Shoujos in Jr. High? Not even High School?
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Sep 21, 2016 16:23
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Mado & Saya are 8th graders so Mami is definitely old enough to be a teen mom
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Sep 21, 2016 16:31
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Free Lord justoce
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Sep 21, 2016 18:06
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Isn't Lord Justice already free to post again?
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Sep 21, 2016 18:33
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Jouissance
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Sep 21, 2016 19:55
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Hmm
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Sep 21, 2016 22:44
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Spiritus Nox posted:I only got like halfway through Madoka before I just kind of fell off of it, it is a 12 episode show you lazy gently caress
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Sep 21, 2016 22:49
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I believe in justice.
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Sep 21, 2016 22:59
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Madoka is alright outside of Rebellion which is great
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Sep 21, 2016 23:08
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I thought it was a good show but I think people tried to hype it up way too much before I ever watched it. It sort of fell a little flatter than it probably would have for me because of that.
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Sep 21, 2016 23:10
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  Anyone else with regrets about missing the goddess scale figs before, rejoice. Ume-tentei versions are coming.
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Sep 22, 2016 06:30
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Space Flower posted:
Do they combine like Voltron? This is important
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Sep 25, 2016 08:16
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The Concept Movie for the new Madoka project was released on Blu-ray at Madogatari this week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxvYZetC6tE e: with subs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5novHqGi94 This is the first version of the movie, there's another version with different footage out there. They just announced that Madogatari is having yet another iteration around the end of the year so they may release that version there. Also a new Madoka pachinko machine came out with a few minutes of new animation of the girls doing moe poo poo, enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK_67yNVRtY Homura and Sickle fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Sep 26, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 22:37
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PerrineClostermann posted:Do they combine like Voltron? This is important Try it out and post results. I have to say, pachislot might actually be good. Now if they can just push out all those Prism Nana OVAs...
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Sep 26, 2016 00:11
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Why does there need to be a new thread for a show, and movie series, that are finished
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Sep 26, 2016 06:13
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Madoka is never finished
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Sep 26, 2016 06:51
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-Troika- posted:Why does there need to be a new thread for a show, and movie series, that are finished i still worship madoka daily
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Sep 26, 2016 07:04
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a lovely magical girl version of Lain, give it a pass this anime season
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Sep 26, 2016 07:07
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Sep 26, 2016 07:15
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Paper Lion posted:a lovely magical girl version of Lain, give it a pass this anime season Where are you seeing your takeaways from Lain being rephrased in Madoka? I'm not seeing where Shaft tackles the issue of human identity in a wired future and a feeling of loneliness in a world where everyone is connected. You can't be talking about the characters, since Madoka and Lain are nothing alike and the former doesn't have an apathetic family that alienates her further every episode. None of the characters share any similarities either at first glance or in the role they serve the plot. If all the thought you put into this post was, "lol first Lain and now Madoka? wtf 2 gods??"" then you're an idiot.
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Sep 26, 2016 07:50
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