Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005
Kyoko and Sayaka

    "Don't worry, Sayaka."
    "It's lonely being by yourself."
    "It's fine. I'll stay by your side, Sayaka."
- Kyoko Sakura dying with Sayaka Miki in Episode 9


Great minds think alike.jpg

It is common to find yuri subtext in the magical girl genre, sometimes it develops into shippings or pairings created by fans, even if it was not part of the creator's original intention. The creators of the show may have been aware of this phenomenon, so they decided to exploit the same yuri subtext phenomenon when it came to the relationship between Kyoko and Sayaka. However, the yuri subtext mostly comes from Kyoko, making it one-sided; while it is officially recognized that Kyoko has feelings for Sayaka, it is uncertain what types of feelings they are. Fans would argue that Sayaka just never had the chance to return these feelings, and Kyoko was never really good in articulating them.

Many fans point out that the reason these two are paired up together is because of their opposing personalities. Sayaka and Kyoko differ not only philosophically but their personalities are bound to cause clashes; yet they are not that dissimilar once you study these characters. Sayaka is an idealist who pursues the path of a hero of justice, she wants to emulate Mami as an example of an ideal Puella Magi. To Sayaka the gift of being a Puella Magi was something sacred to be used for good only and not for selfish acts. Kyoko on the other hand is more of a rogue who would only use her powers to satiate her base desires. Kyoko scoffs at the idea of using her powers to help others, instead she believes a Puella Magi should only help herself (even at the expense of others). To Kyoko there are no rules except her own.

This unlikely pair started out as enemies and Kyoko was close on killing Sayaka, but as the story progressed it was Kyoko who took the first step to close their gap of distrust. Kyoko even went so far as to explain to Sayaka her painful past and to why she believes Sayaka is making a mistake with her life. But Sayaka refuses Kyoko's advice and subtly proclaims she will be a better Puella Magi than her, that she will still follow a righteous path. Sayaka's arrogance at first seems to anger Kyoko (it is not known if she is angry at Sayaka, at herself, or both) but this doesn't stop her from continually pursuing Sayaka to stop her from furthering her mistakes. (Some fans like to suggest that this moment would have alienated any other character from trying to pursue a friendship with Sayaka, yet it seems to have an opposite effect with Kyoko).


Fanart interpretation of Episode 9.

Soon the roles are reversed in Episode 8 and 9. Sayaka finally admits that deep down she was no different from others, that she had selfish desires that were never fulfilled and that she regrets her decision on becoming a Puella Magi (like the love of a boy that went unfulfilled, or the jealous regret of saving a friend's life). She starts to see society as a selfish group who would only exploit others with no remorse for those who suffer. Sayaka finally understands that her decision brought nothing but unhappiness and regrets on her part. Betrayed by the world and by her ideals she soon falls into despair and darkness. It is because of this event that Kyoko soon starts to reveal a different side of her.

With the loss of Sayaka, Kyoko starts to reclaim her older self. She admits to Madoka that there was a time she used to idealize stories of love, friendship, and courage but she abandoned those ideals when she lost her family. After seeing Sayaka's despair, Kyoko decides that she wants to save her and get the old Sayaka back. Kyoko was putting her faith on romantic ideals, a move that many would like to point out as being irrational and dangerous (even Kyubey agrees such a notion is illogical). Once Kyoko realizes that there is no way to save Sayaka, she decides to sacrifice her life so they could both be together. That way Sayaka wont be alone anymore. There is a division among fans regarding Kyoko's decision to die with Sayaka. There are those who say Kyoko did it as an act of love (the tragic yuri pair or maybe an act of friendship), others say Kyoko knew that even if she did survive it would only be a matter of time before she became a witch so she wanted to end her life her own way (a self sacrifice with practical motives). However, the reason that Kyoko would give up her own life to avoid becoming a witch looks a little unstable, as there is a scene in the episode where what appears to be the souls of both girls, colored respectively in blue and red, embracing each other tenderly before disappearing for good. By this logic, it is unlikely that Kyoko will make one last attempt to reach out to Sayaka before they both faded away if she never saw Sayaka as someone who is more than just a friend, and that the only purpose of her death was to escape her eventual fate of being a Puella Magi.

To fans that support the yuri relationship, the reason that they find this pair strong and attractive is because they want Sayaka to be with someone who can love her and protect her. Kyoko was the only character who understood Sayaka's true nature (and her pain) since Kyoko admitted to her that she saw a fragment of herself in Sayaka. Kyoko was also the only one who chased after her to the bitter end, no matter the obstacles or how obstinate Sayaka was, Kyoko was still there for her. Last but not least, another strong indicator of Kyoko's feelings for Sayaka is shown in the last episode of the anime, where she is the only one who takes Sayaka's death the most personally, in spite of trying to brush it off as simply because they "finally had a chance to become friends". Kyoko fits the perfect role as Sayaka's protector and savior.

The relationship between Kyoko and Sayaka may have not been accidental or a tease but created to heighten emotional investments by the viewers. It is possible that this was part of the creator's intention to emotionally move groups of hardcore fans who support a Sayaka/Kyoko pairing, thus making their demise in Episode 9 more tragic (or as fans put it a "Yuri Tragedy" ending).


Trivia: Prior to the mid 19th century, lonely delirious mariners referred to manatees as mermaids.

The Melusine Legend and Kyoko's Soul Gem

There is a Melusine legend that indicates that "a Melusina surfaces briefly every seven years as a beautiful woman or as a serpent, holding a small golden key in her mouth. Whoever takes the key from her will set her free and may claim her as his bride." In Episode 9, Kyoko undoes her hair and then uses her hairpin to pray, it is uncertain but it seems that her Soul Gem and her hairpin were fused together to create a new hairpin with a shape that resembles that of her father's religious symbol. After Kyoko's prayer she kisses the newly formed hairpin and tosses it into the air (before she destroys it with her spear), maybe as an offering to Sayaka to free her from her Witch form by sacrificing Kyoko's soul. The shape of the normal hairpin and of the Soul Gem fused hairpin looks like of a golden key. Sayaka's witch form could also be a reference to the Little Mermaid story.

The Legend of Unicorns and Magical Horns

During the Blu-ray version of Episode 9, there were wind-chimes depicting a Mermaid and a Unicorn. The unicorn is considered to be a wild, powerful, temperamental beast that could only be tamed by a maiden. A unicorn's horn is said to have the power to cleanse poisoned water and heal sickness. Another of its magical properties is the ability to lift curses and break illusions. It is suspected that Kyoko is compared to the unicorn because of its characteristics as well as the horn's magical properties. Both Kyoko and the unicorn are wild and temperamental creatures, free to roam and do whatever they want. Kyoko at one time had the power of illusion as well as the ability to break them ("shining light on illusions", according to a magazine article). The Unicorn's magical properties resides within its horn, and Kyoko's magical weapon is a spear. Fans speculate that Kyoko's spear could be a reference to a unicorn's horn. Another comparison is Kyoko's attempt to break Sayaka's curse during Episode 9. Since a unicorn's horn can magically cleanse poisoned water and the mermaid has connotation to the elements of water (in this case, the elements of water corrupted by the witch form), it could be interpreted as her attempt to purify its element back to its original form (in this case turn Sayaka back to normal). It is suggested that Sayaka is the maiden because she was the only one who was able to "tame" Kyoko. As Kyoko explained before, the only reason she got close to Sayaka was because Sayaka's idealism reminded Kyoko of her innocent, naive yet idealistic self.

The Unicorn symbolism seems to be implied in the Puella Magi Madoka Magica Portable game. See Ophelia.

Manga Differences

In the anime, when Kyoko dies in the explosion, it is the end of her story. However, in the manga, after Kyoko dies, we are presented with an image of Sayaka's back as she is sitting on the floor, presumably waiting for someone. Kyoko approaches Sayaka from behind her with an Umaibō in hand as a sign that Kyoko wants to start all over again with Sayaka (the same way she did with Madoka; and perhaps redo her offering of food in Episode 8). But Sayaka, wearing a mischievous expression, instead grabs Kyoko's hand and pulls her down with her. This has been interpreted as Sayaka accepting Kyoko's affection for her; it can also be interpreted as Sayaka's preference to have Kyoko on the menu over the Umaibō.


    Kyoko finally understands what is like to protect someone precious to her.


    Several changes were made to this scene, yet the emotional impact remains the same.


    This emotional afterlife encounter was not in the anime, not that I am complaining.


    Kyoko Sakura, welcome to the afterlife.

KyōSaya Subtext in The Rebellion Story

At the beginning of The Rebellion Story movie, Sayaka and Kyoko are shown to be Madoka's classmates, and it's later revealed that Kyoko is staying at Sayaka's place. The girls have a much friendlier relationship where Sayaka essentially acts as a the straight man to Kyoko's fool. They also fight as a team together in battles. Unfortunately, this world is an illusion created by a witch's barrier. Interestingly, it's revealed to be Homura's witch barrier, which suggests that on some level Homura wants Sayaka and Kyoko to be together.

Later on it's revealed that Sayaka came back from the Law of Cycles, and she is implied to have memories from previous timelines. This suggests that she has become aware of how much Kyoko cared for her, and how upset Kyoko became when she turned into a witch or vanished. (This creates an interesting parallel with Madoka and Homura's relationship - Sayaka could only understand Kyoko's feelings when she became part of the Law of Cycles, just as Madoka could only understand Homura's feelings when she became the Law of Cycles itself.) During the battle against Homulilly, Kyoko rescues Sayaka from a familiar, and she seems upset when she says that she remembered Sayaka was supposed to be dead. Sayaka comforts Kyoko and admits that while she thought she had no regrets when she died, it turned out she had one: Leaving Kyoko behind. They share a moment holding hands before Nagisa ruins it, much to Sayaka's displeasure. Kyoko seems to shed a single tear on her spear before she and Sayaka fight together against Homulilly's familiars. Later, Sayaka's witch Oktavia is shown fighting with Kyoko's spear, a clear indication of the bond between the two. After the battle finishes and Homulilly's barrier vanishes, Kyoko is shown to be unhappy that Sayaka has vanished again.

At the end of the movie Homura creates a new universe where all the girls live happy lives. One of the scenes at the end of the movie has Sayaka and Kyoko enjoying a box of pocky together.

Ultimately, Rebellion shows that Sayaka is now aware of Kyoko's feelings for her, whatever they may be, and to some extent she returns those feelings. At the very least, Kyoko and Sayaka have become friends who don't want to be separated again. Rebellion also shows that Kyoko and Sayaka would have become close friends under different circumstances.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005
Mami's mammies


Mami's mammies

    "Your breasts. How do you get them like that?"
    "Getting them massaged is the first thing that comes to mind...
    getting 'em massaged.
"

Mami's mammies (おっぱいマミマミ Oppai Mamimami) are a pair of breasts that appear to Madoka and Sayaka as they are attacked by a Witch in episode 1. They were already felt up by Kyubey, so she offers to let the pair fondle them if they choose to become magical girls themselves. Mami's mammies moved to cake planet after bouncing magnificently during a mud wresting match with the loli Charlotte in episode 3.

Official Info



  • A pair of melons on a highly talented ninth-grader who attends Madoka’s school. Superior to Madoka's. They are incorruptible, motherly type; the source of all known joy in the world.
  • Ms. Aoki’s Design Check: Mami's twisty, curly hair are designed to discreetly cover her shapely curves when derobed. Also, I gave her pretty honkers. {tl note: genius, Ume-tentei.}
  • Magical girl outfit: Mami’s design was definitely centered around her drawing attention to her mammies. The second thing that stands out are her breasts. (Aoki)
  • Her bustier and boots give her an oppai flavor which accentuates her blouse.
  • School uniform: Her style stands out even in uniform. Just as Ms. Aoki says, her coconuts are the largest of the four. She wears pure white bra. (However, in the final design, she's seen wearing dark color bra.)
  • As revealed in episode 10, Mami's mammies have multiple jiggles. She bounced them rapidly during the first Walpurgis Night. In a later timeline, Madoka fondled them rhythmically in order to protect herself from Homura.

Fun Facts



  • The character for her last name (霸) literally means "oppai," Japanese for giant. More info here.
  • Her first name is written in katakana, which rhymes with mammies. When written in kanji, it can be read as:
    • graceful jewel (雅珠)
    • light of love (愛光)
    • true heart (真心)
    • truth (真実)
    • sea of the heavens (天海)
    • dancing beauty (舞美)
    • dancing light (舞光)
    • polished beauty (磨美)
    • sparkling purple (晶紫)
    • magical beauty (魔美)
    • magical charm (魔魅)
    • intense hemp (麻深)
  • She is the only character whose first name is written in katakana.
  • The finishing move Mami used on Christmas cake Gertrud and later Charlotte voiced out as "Tetta Finale" which means "last boob" in Italian.
    • In the Drama CD "Farewell Boobs", Mami uses a new special attack called "Tetta Volley" where she shoots boob missiles, sadly this in audio format only and no visual presentation exists.
  • Ume-tentei's lust probably guided her hand to create Mami's mammies.
  • Gen Urobuchi guiltily admits that Walpurgis Night's and Kriemhild Gretchen's designs were based on Mami's mammies to increase the level of fan service and appeal. Just ask Mami!
  • Mami's mammies are the biggest mammies in Mitakihara Middle School, the second pair of mammies belong to clip-girl.
  • The order of ranking goes like this: Mami >> Clip girl > Sayaka > Kyouko > Madoka > Homura (can you feel the despair, Homura?)
    • According with Urobuchi he made Homura into a pettanko to attract the DFC crowd.

Observations

  • Mami's mammies transcend space and time. They have achieved a zen. A state of perfection which even Homura's time traveling cannot alter.

Speculation



  • The origin of Mami's mammies are unknown, but it has been speculated that they are the final goal of creation. Kyubey has alluded to the possibility of their power being greater than even Madoka's potential as a witch.
  • The exact phrasing of Mami's wish is currently unknown. It's possible that she wished not to "be pettanko", and thus died in episode three because the terms of her contract/wish were fulfilled. According to the manga, she simply asked Kyubey for "everyone love her" during her joy ride, but whether this is canonical for the anime is unknown. However, this theory is called into question when she is shown being playfully petted in Time Line 3, when all of Madoka, Sayaka, Homura and Kyouko are her Puella Magi partners.
  • There is a secret cabal (that means you, Sayaka) that is conspiring to spread lies and outrageous rumors that Mami's mammies are the same size as Sayaka's. Lies! Nothing but lies and outrageous falsehoods! We have evidence that this is nothing but a conspiracy to deflate Mami's mammies.

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005
X

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005
They're all good.

X

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005
X

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005

a cartoon duck posted:

Madoka would have been better if she was a fat lazy nerd like Sailor Moon

Ah,

Namtab posted:

My fanfic

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005

Mill Village posted:

I'm finally watching this show. Its very entertaining. Do I need to watch the recap movies?

You don't need to, no. They make some cuts and some small additions, and generally reframe things to be more from Homura's perspective. They're worth seeing, but probably not right after seeing the series. Rebellion, of course, is a different story and should be watched.

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005

Snak posted:

So the movies come after the show? I wasn't sure if they were seperate or edited adaptions of the series. I'm like a half-dozen episodes into the show right now.

the first two movies are a recut retelling of the series, with slightly different emphasis and redone backgrounds and such. Skip for now, maybe consider them on a rewatch. The third is a direct sequel, and it's a doozy.

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005


lol

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005
the homusaya one that went up on dynasty the other day has inspired me to go through them. A+ decision so far

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005


again, lol

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005


Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005


oh dear

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005


lmao

  • Locked thread