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spotlessd posted:Okay but won't you feel kind of foolish when he wins The last Republican elected to the White House that was not Reagan or someone directly connected to him was Nixon. Donald Trump is no Ronald Reagan.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:07
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icantfindaname posted:It's frankly pathetic and gross watching elite liberals try to rehabilitate the pre-Trump GOP I bet you're white and middle class too.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:06
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Doredrin posted:The last Republican elected to the White House that was not Reagan or someone directly connected to him was Nixon. Donald Trump is no Ronald Reagan. *while sweating profusely* Yeah, heh, you're right. Not gonna happen...
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Sep 25, 2016 00:08
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"There is literally no difference between institutional racism and open incitement to race war; actual lynchings and racially biased housing policies are identical." -icantfindaname
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Sep 25, 2016 00:09
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Doredrin posted:If I were running Hillary Clinton's campaign I would do everything I could to get the voter to associate Donald Trump with 4chan, Stormfront, etc. I've spent some time on /pol/ in the past few years and they are some of the worst people in existence. The fact that the alt-right are being explicitly targeted by a rival political campaign is what makes me doubt just how powerful and pervasive they are. A bunch of middle class to upper middle class computer janitors having right leaning tenancies is nothing new, whenever people talk about the alt-right they stand around gobsmacked, as if this is a group of people that shouldn't exist. Is it so surprising that some people in the younger generation are going to have similar politics as thier parents did?
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Sep 25, 2016 00:10
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Doredrin posted:If I were running Hillary Clinton's campaign I would do everything I could to get the voter to associate Donald Trump with 4chan, Stormfront, etc. That would require making people aware of 4chan, Stormfront, etc. which is a big stumbling block. And not getting your message lost if they accidentally stumble on one of the anime porn boards, or find people yelling at cars, too.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:11
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Mel Mudkiper posted:How does that count as white nationalism? I'm not sure what the deal with the quoting dictionary/wikipedia definitions at people to declare victory' thing is, but whatever definition you want to use those ideas have been floating around the GOP base for, again, literally decades. The only difference is they're no longer dogwhsitling them. I just don't see that as a very meaningful difference. I guess to an extent. But do you seriously think a Rubio presidency would be any less catastrophic than a Trump one? You get the feeling a lot of liberals are more concerned about the breach of decorum than about actual racism
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Sep 25, 2016 00:13
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Nude Bog Lurker posted:I bet you're white and middle class too. As we know, black and Hispanic voters greatly preferred the old GOP and made it known at the ballot box
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Sep 25, 2016 00:14
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a lot of young liberals grew up on the internet in an age where everyone was making fun of bush pretty much across the board, so they felt a sort of liberal, progressive groupthink among their peers that got entrenced in their minds, and people were generally pretty into obama - there were some racist memes but even the people making the racist memes seemed to think he was a better choice than the conservative candidates, at least in nerd culture circles - and then the whole trump/alt.right/bernouts thing has brought that whole illusion of liberal solidarity among their peers crashing down and now the internet is basically a race war in certain places.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:15
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Nude Bog Lurker posted:"There is literally no difference between institutional racism and open incitement to race war; actual lynchings and racially biased housing policies are identical." They're not, but the Old GOP supported the latter and former of your choices, like when Reagan gave the speech I quoted at the site of lynchings of civil rights workers
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Sep 25, 2016 00:16
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like there's always been a racist/neo-fascist element on the internet but people are used to it being hidden on the dark corners of the internet like stormfront or something, not blazoned across the internet's most popular websites.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:16
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Is a nazi worse the Geroge W? Yes. One can be reasoned with and the other makes one want to open up some Gulags.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:16
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icantfindaname posted:But do you seriously think a Rubio presidency would be any less catastrophic than a Trump one? You get the feeling a lot of liberals are more concerned about the breach of decorum than about actual racism Yes, Trump would be worse than Rubio and decorum has nothing to do with it. icantfindaname posted:I'm not sure what the deal with the quoting dictionary/wikipedia definitions at people to declare victory' thing is I didn't quote anything at you. You are simply wrong
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Sep 25, 2016 00:18
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Yes, Trump would be worse than Rubio and decorum has nothing to do with it. His stated policies were basically the same as Trump's, except for rhetorical focus https://marcorubio.com/2016/08/01/immigration/ quote:Marco’s Priorities: Mel Mudkiper posted:I didn't quote anything at you. You are simply wrong The GOP has been a White Nationalist party since Reagan, sorry. Trump has made it more explicit and given it more of a lower middle class instead of an upper middle class focus, but the substance is much the same as it's always been icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 00:24
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icantfindaname posted:The only difference is they're no longer dogwhsitling them. I just don't see that as a very meaningful difference. The people dogwhistling can't be overt about their intent, for one, and people being overt gives the dogwhistlers cover. The dogwhistles (like welfare queens) gave them plausible deniability, and it's hard to argue against that when someone has done away with the pretense (and is yelling about black people directly). Like, when the conversation is about race, the opponent is the white nationalist who is directly about race, not institutional racism which is, ostensibly, about policy. It's a second layer to get through. Even if the ends are the same, a new extreme in expression means the subtle racists can defend themselves by pointing at the blatant racists. Now let's talk about welfare reform and not race.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:31
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icantfindaname posted:It's frankly pathetic and gross watching elite liberals try to rehabilitate the pre-Trump GOP How is trying to schism the party rehabilitating it?
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Sep 25, 2016 00:35
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Bip Roberts posted:How is trying to schism the party rehabilitating it? I don't believe in 11 dimension chess analyses, so when liberals say they want the alt-right to go away and to have the old right back, I think it's fair to take that opinion at face value, and not to take it as meaning they want schism
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Sep 25, 2016 00:38
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icantfindaname posted:I don't believe in 11 dimension chess analyses, so when liberals say they want the alt-right to go away and to have the old right back, I think it's fair to take that opinion at face value, and not to take it as meaning they want schism Might just be that nazis are far worse than neo cons,
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Sep 25, 2016 00:44
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icantfindaname posted:I don't believe in 11 dimension chess analyses, so when liberals say they want the alt-right to go away and to have the old right back, I think it's fair to take that opinion at face value, and not to take it as meaning they want schism Telling the traditional GOP that they need to dump a large bloc or lose forever isn't that high level of an effect.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:48
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The alt-right are neo-nazis. Are neo-nazis worse than establishment conservatives? The answer is yes, yes they are.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:50
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A lot of people contextualize the alt right as a sort of younger version of the right that's more open on certain social issues or basic neo-nazis, but a big part of the alt right that's not really discussed as much as it should be is the way that many large segments of the alt right are really this bizarre resurgence of extreme traditionalist Christianity among young people. Some of the scariest alt righters I encounter are bizarre quite young people who slaver at the thought of a Russia-esque repressive Christian theocracy complete with a loss of all the sexual and personal freedom we think of young people wanting today.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:59
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Crowsbeak posted:Might just be that nazis are far worse than neo cons, No you see all racists are nazis and if you don't call bad people nazis it means you think they aren't bad
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Sep 25, 2016 01:01
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While the alt-right does use the same dogwhistles as the establishment, they are far more willing to throw them out in favor of open discrimination. The difference may not seem huge at first, but it changes the way the conversation about racism is engaged in. And not in a good way.
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Sep 25, 2016 01:03
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Jygallax posted:A lot of people contextualize the alt right as a sort of younger version of the right that's more open on certain social issues or basic neo-nazis, but a big part of the alt right that's not really discussed as much as it should be is the way that many large segments of the alt right are really this bizarre resurgence of extreme traditionalist Christianity among young people. Some of the scariest alt righters I encounter are bizarre quite young people who slaver at the thought of a Russia-esque repressive Christian theocracy complete with a loss of all the sexual and personal freedom we think of young people wanting today. i have to say i haven't seen this side of it. are there any bloggers or similar in this camp that you can link to? i'd like to get a sense of these people's thinking
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Sep 25, 2016 01:03
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MiracleWhale posted:i have to say i haven't seen this side of it. are there any bloggers or similar in this camp that you can link to? i'd like to get a sense of these people's thinking Sorry I'm about to go do something where I won't be available for a while but I'll try to dig some stuff up in a few hours. My most recent personal encounter with someone like this was a Dutch racist Christian traditionalist monarchist on a political discord server lol.
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Sep 25, 2016 01:07
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Someone's prejudices don't have to all be equally intense to still be prejudices. Denying gays the right to marry is less homophobic than public execution, but it's still homophobia. Deflecting criticism onto others is a common defense used by fundies on some of the other blogs I post on. They say that the gays ought to be directing their efforts at the Muslims, who throw gay men off buildings, and leave the Christian bigots alone.
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Sep 25, 2016 01:08
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The alt-right's origins are easier to comprehend if you've had a long-standing and broad connection with the internet, because a lot of the alt-right started in groups that weren't explicitly connected (men's rights, pick-up artists, gamers, ect.). They were brought together because of the left's utilization of social media bringing them to light (among people who use social media). Once these affected groups caught on, they started coming together and covering each others bases to try and limit the damage social media was doing to them, and arguably doing a decent job. The establishment right is clearly worse because they are actually in power, but if the alt-right can stay cohesive enough they may have representatives come to power one day. It really depends on how powerful we want social media to be (and its related issue, social justice). That's a different argument, but one that both gives and takes away the power the alt-right has.
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Sep 25, 2016 01:12
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Jygallax posted:A lot of people contextualize the alt right as a sort of younger version of the right that's more open on certain social issues or basic neo-nazis, but a big part of the alt right that's not really discussed as much as it should be is the way that many large segments of the alt right are really this bizarre resurgence of extreme traditionalist Christianity among young people. Some of the scariest alt righters I encounter are bizarre quite young people who slaver at the thought of a Russia-esque repressive Christian theocracy complete with a loss of all the sexual and personal freedom we think of young people wanting today. I've turned a lot towards "maybe the Christians have the right idea" after experiencing the dating market in the past few years. Women are lying to themselves that letting guys treat them like a jizz rag is empowering and sex positive. Any decent looking guy in a city can have a couple girls in rotation at all times, and do things with them that would make a 70's porn star blush, without condoms, because they didn't grow up during the HIV scare. Tilting pendulum away from this dynamic would probably be a good thing for society.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:21
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on the left posted:I've turned a lot towards "maybe the Christians have the right idea" after experiencing the dating market in the past few years. Women are lying to themselves that letting guys treat them like a jizz rag is empowering and sex positive. Any decent looking guy in a city can have a couple girls in rotation at all times, and do things with them that would make a 70's porn star blush, without condoms, because they didn't grow up during the HIV scare. Tilting pendulum away from this dynamic would probably be a good thing for society. You're a sexist and probably a white male.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:25
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on the left posted:I've turned a lot towards "maybe the Christians have the right idea" after experiencing the dating market in the past few years. Women are lying to themselves that letting guys treat them like a jizz rag is empowering and sex positive. Any decent looking guy in a city can have a couple girls in rotation at all times, and do things with them that would make a 70's porn star blush, without condoms, because they didn't grow up during the HIV scare. Tilting pendulum away from this dynamic would probably be a good thing for society. "Dating market".
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Sep 25, 2016 02:27
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Nude Bog Lurker posted:"Dating market". Look at this rear end in a top hat treating women like a commodity that can be bought and sold at a flesh market. He probably believes hypergamy is a thing and that monogamous relationships are ideal too.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:31
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Monogamy is ideal.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:39
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Monogamy is for insecure cishet white males who can't appreciate a woman's sexual self-expression and believes in the antiquated view that children should be raised by both parents to be successful.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:44
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Well this thread has taken a turn
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Sep 25, 2016 02:55
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It seems to me like the dating market just consists of people who meet each other and are sometimes attracted to each other and enjoy spending time together? Maybe I just haven't figured this thing out yet.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:55
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Epitome of Macho posted:Monogamy is for insecure cishet white males who can't appreciate a woman's sexual self-expression and believes in the antiquated view that children should be raised by both parents to be successful.
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Sep 25, 2016 03:11
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Epitome of Macho posted:You're a sexist and probably a white male. I don't know if you read my post or not, but it's not sexist to point out that women are being pressured into one-sided and degrading sexual practices, under the guise of female empowerment. Epitome of Macho posted:Monogamy is for insecure cishet white males who can't appreciate a woman's sexual self-expression and believes in the antiquated view that children should be raised by both parents to be successful. Yes, that's exactly the kind of line you pull out when you want to use social justice activism as an excuse for abusive behavior. Ytlaya posted:It seems to me like the dating market just consists of people who meet each other and are sometimes attracted to each other and enjoy spending time together? Again, this is a great line for shaming Asian men who complain about white privilege in dating. Honestly, it's best to pretend publicly like these things aren't true and deny them viciously if brought up, yet privately take full advantage of a skewed social playing field.
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Sep 25, 2016 04:02
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I think the establishment had an opportunity to be different than their extreme elements. That possibility was missed entirely, rejected outright, or identified too late by different parts of the right. It's now too late for that. There are only a few pundits and politicans on the right I wouldn't call cowards now.
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Sep 25, 2016 04:04
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on the left posted:I don't know if you read my post or not, but it's not sexist to point out that women are being pressured into one-sided and degrading sexual practices, under the guise of female empowerment. Are you upset that girls are more likely to do anal now? Because as a guy that's a hell of a thing to be mad about. 
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Sep 25, 2016 04:17
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Women choosing their sexual partners and activities is somehow a bad thing? Whelp, better return to Christian Puritanism!
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Sep 25, 2016 04:20
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