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woke wedding drone posted:I don't think I can say whether hip hop has promoted any kind of social consciousness or not. Everything positive and pro-black from the '80s and '90s (as well as all the ideologically neutral meaningless party rap of that era) was countermanded by the marketing of the "G" lifestyle of subsequent years. For example, it's hard to take 2Pac as some kind of prophet or social critic (as intelligent and capable as he was of being one) when he willingly fed the fires of the east coast/west coast feud that led to his own pointless death. And he was in a position to know better. He made himself a martyr of capital and I can't think of a more pointless thing to do. Holy poo poo those are some bad opinions. Paternalistic and racist, seriously. gently caress your scarequotes around "G" and your apparent inabilty to actually listen to lyrics in the 90s and your marxoteen interpretation of Pac's murder and just gently caress you, generally, for your entire assumption that a ten-year fad you didn't like rendered black minds incapable of thinking, and your mayomouthed clucking that we may just be Too Dumb to understand Kendrick Lamar of all people. gently caress you. Get the gently caress out of this excellent thread full of intelligent people trying to have a conversation uninterrupted by your racist nonsense for once.
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Oct 1, 2016 18:53
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It's funny how the message of other genres never impacted on the people performing it. Black metal inspired people to murder, burn down churches and generally be misanthropic fucks. Or did it? The question of violence in hip hop lyricism is always taken as deadly serious. The idea that black people can have the same sort of entertainment or power fantasies as white people always seems anathema. Slayer can make music about murder and its all good fun, it's not particularly serious, why are you making a big deal about it? Some kids from Compton make a record about killing cops and its deadly serious. I don't really think the NWA were advocating for mass murder of cops anymore than the Wu-Tang Clan are actually grand masters of the Shaolin style.
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Oct 1, 2016 19:48
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Holy poo poo those are some bad opinions. Paternalistic and racist, seriously. gently caress your scarequotes around "G" and your apparent inabilty to actually listen to lyrics in the 90s and your marxoteen interpretation of Pac's murder and just gently caress you, generally, for your entire assumption that a ten-year fad you didn't like rendered black minds incapable of thinking, and your mayomouthed clucking that we may just be Too Dumb to understand Kendrick Lamar of all people. gently caress you. Get the gently caress out of this excellent thread full of intelligent people trying to have a conversation uninterrupted by your racist nonsense for once. For once? I wasn't aware that there was some long-standing tension between our beliefs. I never said they rendered black minds incapable of thinking. I just wonder how many were rendered suddenly capable of more advanced thinking, and how that balances against the ones enchanted by the meaningless paeans to sectarian violence 2Pac promoted while simultaneously promoting himself as a figure of enlightenment. e: I don't intend to single out hip hop specifically. I think most social messages are wasted on their intended audience, or at least washed out when that message is quickly co-opted by capitalists. It certainly happened to folk music, and the people who experienced a moment of clarity after they listened to a song by Dylan or Phil Ochs was probably going to have that moment anyway. woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Oct 1, 2016 |
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Oct 1, 2016 19:50
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woke wedding drone posted:For once? I wasn't aware that there was some long-standing tension between our beliefs. Shut the gently caress up and get the gently caress out. Suck your own dick about how you're the only sophisticate alive in some other thread. And that bolded part? Is loving disgusting. You're ignorant and you're racist and you need to take Tupac Shakur's name out your mouth.
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Oct 1, 2016 21:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6BPO2FU1u4
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Oct 1, 2016 22:04
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I'm a white nerd, sour cream ain't got poo poo on me, and there's nothing whiter than loving rap. I'll admit that I've always loved, and still love, the more festive side of hip-hop - the brag raps about money, sex, all that - but I always had a special appreciation for the one track that was more socially conscious in my favorite albums from back in the day. Li'l Ghetto Boy, Murder Was the Case, One Love et al. It was also a window into a reality I had, and have, no real exposure to. And there was some rap I listened to fifteen years ago that had overtones I was too sheltered to get. One of my favorite rap acts, back then and today, is IAM. They're from the other side of the Atlantic and their lyrics have always been charged with animus against the anti-Muslim sentiment in France, something that I had no idea was what it was when I was listening to them in the '90s. When they rapped about the FN, or Minute, I had no idea what that was. Even back then, though, I felt their lyrics were alive with despair against injustice and prejudice. I'll still bump L'école du micro d'argent from time to time. poo poo is ill, twenty years on. A few samples (warning: it's all in  ):Dangereux, a track about media double standards. Rush Limbo just made the point this song made: when TV, writing or other "traditional" media talk about violence, it's cool & good, but the guy who rapped the first verse was charged with incitement to violence over a previous album. Petit frère, a track about youth led astray, about falling into crime and violence. Got a lot of airplay back in the day and I love the C.R.E.A.M. sample. Elle donne son corps avant son nom: IAM is still a rap act and they WILL rap about sex. Still, even on this track there's a story: they get tricked by two girls who rob them after they fall asleep after the fact, and the girls get away with it in the end. There are two things I love about that track: the first is that the guy who was in on the swindle and prevented our heroes from getting payback was described as being swole like Golgo 13; on both sides of the Atlantic, apparently, rappers are comic book and anime nerds. The second is the throwaway line at the end about letting off steam by whaling on a Skinhead with Black & Decker hammers  L'empire du côté obscur: Speaking of nerds, how would you like to hear a track that talks poo poo about the then-mayor of Marseille where our heroes theme themselves after the Dark Side in Star Wars and features a sample of Darth Vader's breathing? You would, right? Well, link's right there. Demain c'est loin: My favorite of the lot. Nine minutes, no hook, just nonstop breathless flow about life on the streets and the Cités. A real tour de force, the creme de la creme. /NMS Cape Cod Crab Chip fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Oct 1, 2016 |
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Oct 1, 2016 22:14
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Shut the gently caress up and get the gently caress out. Suck your own dick about how you're the only sophisticate alive in some other thread. And that bolded part? Is loving disgusting. You're ignorant and you're racist and you need to take Tupac Shakur's name out your mouth. You should start a coastal beef with woke wedding drone. The only appropriate solution here is both of you dying a rap cliche death
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Oct 1, 2016 22:25
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6Dl-NmFJOw
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Oct 1, 2016 22:28
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smdh at this black-on-black flame war.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:29
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gobbagool posted:You should start a coastal beef with woke wedding drone. The only appropriate solution here is both of you dying a rap cliche death That reminds me of the song Like Toy Soldiers by Eminem. A song about him needing to squash all of the beef that he has gained over the years with a haunting video of Proof from D12 dying, which actually happened a couple of years later.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:30
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Shut the gently caress up and get the gently caress out. Suck your own dick about how you're the only sophisticate alive in some other thread. And that bolded part? Is loving disgusting. You're ignorant and you're racist and you need to take Tupac Shakur's name out your mouth. I'm expected to praise Tupac Shakur, convicted rapist and glorifier of pointless violence? This is getting into really advanced theory, I hope you'll explain in more detail.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:35
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woke wedding drone posted:I'm expected to praise Tupac Shakur, convicted rapist and glorifier of pointless violence? This is getting into really advanced theory, I hope you'll explain in more detail. You have literally the entire rest of the internet to be Anything but Rap and Country Guy. If you have ignorant, bigoted opinions about rap you don't have any business participating in a conversation about it. Go be racist on reddit, they love that poo poo.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:38
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You have literally the entire rest of the internet to be Anything but Rap and Country Guy. If you have ignorant, bigoted opinions about rap you don't have any business participating in a conversation about it. Go be racist on reddit, they love that poo poo. I think you're misunderstanding my position. I love hip hop and many of the artists posted here. I just don't think it is a meaningful force for social change, and when it comes to Tupac Shakur I think he was especially despicable, especially in contrast to the saintly image that has been assigned to him. He was a convicted rapist who glorified pointless violence.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:40
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Meredith Baxter-Burnout posted:This post is just going to be a Public Enemy dump. This isn't really true, the Panthers were Maoists, Public Enemy are Nation of Islam, who Bobby Seale refers to in his book as being cultural nationalists iirc. The panthers broke with them even before formally becoming a political party because they were basically impossible to work with and also full of poo poo with the "white people were made in a lab" stuff. You don't fight capitalism with black capitalism, etc HorseLord fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Oct 1, 2016 |
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Oct 1, 2016 22:43
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woke wedding drone posted:I think you're misunderstanding my position. I love hip hop and many of the artists posted here. I just don't think it is a meaningful force for social change, and when it comes to Tupac Shakur I think he was especially despicable, especially in contrast to the saintly image that has been assigned to him. He was a convicted rapist who glorified pointless violence. Do you dislike Tupac because of the image that he represents or do you dislike him personally either because he was a rapist or because he made regressive music?
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Oct 1, 2016 22:47
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HorseLord posted:and also full of poo poo with the "white people were made in a lab" stuff.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:48
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woke wedding drone posted:I think you're misunderstanding my position. I love hip hop and many of the artists posted here. I just don't think it is a meaningful force for social change, and when it comes to Tupac Shakur I think he was especially despicable, especially in contrast to the saintly image that has been assigned to him. He was a convicted rapist who glorified pointless violence. Yes those are racist, ignorant opinions and you should take them to r/the_donald where they will be appreciated. Take Kingfish too - he has trouble meeting people outside the Klavvern.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:50
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The Kingfish posted:Do you dislike Tupac because of the image that he represents or do you dislike him personally either because he was a rapist or because he made regressive music? Specifically the contrast of his sanctified posthumous image with the reality of what he said and did. He was two-faced, an intellectual and apparently sensitive man who trafficked in a destructive, idiotic message. And those who praise him as an admirable person are two-faced as well, excusing his rape when they'd condemn someone else doing it.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:52
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:That poo poo's hilarious though and seems like fairplay after centuries of that "black people have an extra muscle in their thigh," "black people are genetically stupider," "black people bear the mark of cain" poo poo. I think it's funny but it gets a hell of a lot less funny when you realise that A) they literally believe it and B) you can't get poo poo done if your beliefs are completely wrong. Like if I was a CIA agent or whatever I'd be way more concerned about a black revolutionary communist movement that's building a big support base in working class neighbourhoods, than i would be about a bunch of do-nothing conspiracy theorists obsessed with ankh jewellery or whatever.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:54
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Music black people make about their lives is not a source of meaningful social change, says some guy who just wandered into the thread about black people music making social change.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:56
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HorseLord posted:I think it's funny but it gets a hell of a lot less funny when you realise that A) they literally believe it and B) you can't get poo poo done if your beliefs are completely wrong. Like if I was a CIA agent or whatever I'd be way more concerned about a black revolutionary communist movement that's building a big support base in working class neighbourhoods, than i would be about a bunch of do-nothing conspiracy theorists obsessed with ankh jewellery or whatever. Yeah nobody's afraid of Hoteps and that's a good thing
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Oct 1, 2016 22:57
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"Rap music is not a tool for social change" is like the definition of a post that is acceptable for someone to make in a debate and discussion thread about rap music being a tool for social change.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:59
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The Kingfish posted:"Rap music is not a tool for social change" is like the definition of a post that is acceptable for someone to make in a debate and discussion thread about rap music being a tool for social change.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:01
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[Music] is not a tool of social change.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:02
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I've no particular opinion about rap, but rape, that is bad.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:03
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Music black people make about their lives is not a source of meaningful social change, says some guy who just wandered into the thread about black people music making social change. What social change? People have been posting great songs but no examples of actual change that happened as a result of those songs. I am suggesting that there hasn't really been any. I think any positive changes in the black community since the birth of hip hop have been mostly due to activism and legislative advocacy, and while many artists repeated the messages of that actual work, for the most part the music has just been the soundtrack rather than a meaningful contribution. I wish it had been meaningful. e: It's like Guernica. A striking image, a masterpiece, a new way of seeing the horror of war, etc. And it has never accomplished anything. woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Oct 1, 2016 |
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Oct 1, 2016 23:03
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woke wedding drone posted:What social change? People have been posting great songs but no examples of actual change that happened as a result of those songs. I am suggesting that there hasn't really been any. I think any positive changes in the black community since the birth of hip hop have been mostly due to activism and legislative advocacy, and while many artists repeated the messages of that actual work, for the most part the music has just been the soundtrack rather than a meaningful contribution. I wish it had been meaningful. Oh did we disappoint, you massa? Maybe it's because we gots all this cottonwool up in our heads
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Oct 1, 2016 23:05
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Hey I'm not massa. At best I am carving the turkey because massa let the mulatto house servants hold a knife.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:07
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woke wedding drone posted:Hey I'm not massa. At best I am carving the turkey because massa let the mulatto house servants hold a knife. Then your racism is even more disgusting. Grats on being the first person to use a racist slur in here, you hosed up rear end in a top hat!
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Oct 1, 2016 23:09
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I don't even get to decide what to call myself? Somebody better tell 2Pac. *knock knock* HEY 2PAC
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Oct 1, 2016 23:10
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woke wedding drone posted:I don't even get to decide what to call myself? Somebody better tell 2Pac. If you're calling yourself that I'm going to default to my first assumption, which is that you're a glowingly pink white boy who thought he found a get out of racism free card. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 1, 2016 23:12
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I'm certainly pink! I'm passing for sure. But that doesn't make Tupac Shakur any less of a rapist or a hypocrite, his worshipers any less blind or the social change legacy of hip hop any more substantial.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:15
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woke wedding drone posted:What social change? People have been posting great songs but no examples of actual change that happened as a result of those songs. I am suggesting that there hasn't really been any. I think any positive changes in the black community since the birth of hip hop have been mostly due to activism and legislative advocacy, and while many artists repeated the messages of that actual work, for the most part the music has just been the soundtrack rather than a meaningful contribution. I wish it had been meaningful. So wait, how would you even prove something like this? I mean yeah, I guess music has never influenced legislators to make laws to change things, but to say that music hasn't influenced activists or people is insane.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:16
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Wouldn't the burden of proof be on the people claiming it did have an influence?
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Oct 1, 2016 23:21
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woke wedding drone posted:Wouldn't the burden of proof be on the people claiming it did have an influence? This is one of those things where the answers will never be good enough for the other side. But if you want an answer, at its most basic form, hip-hop is a method of expression as well as entertainment for people. On another level, it has no doubt influenced the world around us. The quickest example off the top of my head is language with the term YOLO being a recent example. Or we can include NWA's gently caress the Police song which talked about a problem long before BLM.
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Oct 1, 2016 23:30
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blackguy32 posted:This is one of those things where the answers will never be good enough for the other side. But if you want an answer, at its most basic form, hip-hop is a method of expression as well as entertainment for people. On another level, it has no doubt influenced the world around us. The quickest example off the top of my head is language with the term YOLO being a recent example. Or we can include NWA's gently caress the Police song which talked about a problem long before BLM. That's really my point, though. We say YOLO...ok. Does that accomplish anything? And gently caress tha Police "talked about" the problem. That's great, and it feels cathartic...but no social change has been enacted, even until now. It took going into the streets and filming police for even the possibility of change to become visible, and that was kicked off by real world events, not music.
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Oct 2, 2016 00:00
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If you're going to barge your racist rear end in here, run your mouth about how ignorant black people are, and then demand everyone drop everything to satisfy your arbitrary metrics you'd better loving define them first. What has hip-hop failed to do in the social sphere that any other genre of music succeeded at? Or journalism? Or art? What does Guernica do that 911's A Joke does not? One of the many ways you display your racism is that you're commandeering a conversation about an artform you don't respect and don't know anything about yet you have appointed yourself the arbiter of its quality. Racist people make every effort of the black community jump through extra hoops for legitimacy, with that goalpost always shifting juuuuuust out of reach. White people folk music is largely about committing crimes too, by the way. Where's your handwringing there? Plenty of rapists in the rock scene - can you link me to you making GBS threads up threads in NMD with your righteousness?
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Oct 2, 2016 00:26
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Political messaging in music is a successful recruiting tool for any given ideology. It's not deniable, because it's not hard to find people in any given leftist political movement who got interested in it because of such-and-such band's vocal message. I'd love to see what bulletproof wizard mathematics you got that proves none of those people ever go and participate in change.
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Oct 2, 2016 00:28
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:White people folk music is largely about committing crimes too, by the way. Where's your handwringing there? Plenty of rapists in the rock scene - can you link me to you making GBS threads up threads in NMD with your righteousness? I imagine he would talk about those genres, if they were the topic of the thread.
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Oct 2, 2016 00:28
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The whitest music of all, death metal, is a about torture, murder and genocide. Makes you think.
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Oct 2, 2016 00:29
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