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Man Musk posted:The worry is more about American diplomats, businesspeople, spooks, agents, etc running into legal trouble rather than the government proper lol noway. Saudi Arabia got multiple Iraq wars and US protection of its oil interests, and now they're running around like chickens with their heads cut off because a team of lawyers are going to crawl up their assholes with flashlights? Please. Good work Obama & Congress.
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Oct 4, 2016 21:23
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Wyld Thang posted:lol noway. You seem a bit... misinformed. Obama and Congress are not working together on JASTA. In other news, it's happening: https://www.rt.com/usa/361518-iraq-invasion-compensation-jasta/
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Oct 5, 2016 19:39
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litigating against what would effectively be an act of war by another state(if proven true, ofc) is extremely American
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Oct 6, 2016 08:51
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many lolz at the notion that the saudi intelligence service would submit to discovery of proof that they did 9/11 tho
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Oct 6, 2016 20:50
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The Saudi Department of State irrefutably proves that Bush did 9/11 in discovery.
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Oct 6, 2016 21:51
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EngineerSean posted:Somebody help me out here. This sets a dangerous precedent because if the US government allows US citizens to sue foreign governments in US courts, foreign governments will allow foreign citizens to sue the US government in foreign courts? What was stopping these foreign governments from allowing their citizens to sue the US government before this? Just the idea that we would retaliate by allowing our citizens to sue their governments in the future? Are there any governments which have allowed their citizens to sue the US government in the recent past, and we're just ignoring them? Is this the same general idea behind Democrats keeping the filibuster completely intact because if they weaken it now, what's to stop the next Republican majority from abolishing it completely? I suspect one party or another will eventually abolish the filibuster when they calculate that their losses in the next election will be outweighed by whatever they can achieve during that session.
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Oct 7, 2016 00:14
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FuhrerHat posted:You seem a bit... misinformed. Obama and Congress are not working together on JASTA. They can be paid out of that sweet Iraqi Oil Money fund that Cheney promised would pay for the war.
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Oct 7, 2016 02:40
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TenementFunster posted:many lolz at the notion that the saudi intelligence service would submit to discovery of proof that they did 9/11 tho I saw an ad looking for folks to do doc review for a firm repping the saudi government on some kind of suit like this so who knows!
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Oct 8, 2016 16:21
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:I saw an ad looking for folks to do doc review for a firm repping the saudi government on some kind of suit like this so who knows!
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Oct 8, 2016 16:27
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Gonna be awkward when the Saudis triple tap bomb opposing law firms when these cases start up
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Oct 9, 2016 07:42
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TenementFunster posted:lol never mind. saudi arabia is hosed i didnt answer the ad so they may still have hope
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Oct 9, 2016 18:42
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We are going to be flooded with lawsuits imo. Travel carefully folks. Also, try not to be black while traveling internationally. Oh wait... Learn new languages and try not to be forthcoming about being American?
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Oct 11, 2016 02:09
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Helsing posted:Robot assassins are cool and good but civil suits against a sitting government, that's a dangerous precedent right there. its the thin end of the wedge
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Oct 11, 2016 16:30
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Princess Di posted:We are going to be flooded with lawsuits imo. Travel carefully folks. Also, try not to be black while traveling internationally. Oh wait... Thanks for confirming this was all just a dumb scare tactic.
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Oct 11, 2016 17:06
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EngineerSean posted:Thanks for confirming this was all just a dumb scare tactic. How am I confirming that? Are you saying the bill itself was a scare tactic? It appears to actually be a political stunt to look well meaning right before the election?
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Oct 11, 2016 19:27
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There's no place in the world where it was previously safe to be forthcoming about being an American and now is less safe due to this bill passing.
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Oct 11, 2016 20:43
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Oct 11, 2016 20:56
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Princess Di posted:We are going to be flooded with lawsuits imo. Travel carefully folks. Also, try not to be black while traveling internationally. Oh wait... Just say you're an Alaskan, works for me and my friends.
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Oct 13, 2016 02:12
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Mr.Pibbleton posted:Just say you're an Alaskan, works for me and my friends.  I don't like the cold at all but I can pass myself off as eccentrically averse to temperatures I should theoretically be used to. I've seen people from cold rear end Canada who don't like the cold so I think it should be fine. Good tip! EngineerSean posted:There's no place in the world where it was previously safe to be forthcoming about being an American and now is less safe due to this bill passing. My point is I don't know that yet. Also, I don't know if that's true specifically for me and people like me yet. After all, if anyone can get sued at any time for false war crime charges, I'm sure that I will have to review my travel plans. Tl;dr I'm not trying to scare anyone, I'm just concerned for myself and others like me, because we tend to get falsely accused of stuff. Pretty much everywhere. I don't know if you knew this already.
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Oct 13, 2016 02:23
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"I don't know how this will end up or how other countries will react to it but all I do know is that Americans are less safe now!" The very definition of concern trolling.
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Oct 13, 2016 02:30
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EngineerSean posted:"I don't know how this will end up or how other countries will react to it but all I do know is that Americans are less safe now!" That's a narrative you're fond of isn't it?
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Oct 13, 2016 05:32
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EngineerSean posted:"I don't know how this will end up or how other countries will react to it but all I do know is that Americans are less safe now!"
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Oct 13, 2016 05:37
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Can't even believe that a bill that initially passed unanimously, with every Democrat in the Senate and House of Representatives voting for it, and then overwhelmingly passing the two thirds requirement to override a veto, allowing the largely symbolic act of giving families the ability to sue over state-sponsored terror, is going to make Americans less safe. Can't even believe that poster Princess Di can shake his/her head disapprovingly and type, "Oh, sure I don't know what it'll do, but Obama said it's bad and therefore I'm scared for my safety" and not get laughed out of here. That's Something Awful in 2016 for you though.
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Oct 13, 2016 07:13
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EngineerSean posted:Can't even believe that a bill that initially passed unanimously, with every Democrat in the Senate and House of Representatives voting for it, and then overwhelmingly passing the two thirds requirement to override a veto, allowing the largely symbolic act of giving families the ability to sue over state-sponsored terror, is going to make Americans less safe. Can't even believe that poster Princess Di can shake his/her head disapprovingly and type, "Oh, sure I don't know what it'll do, but Obama said it's bad and therefore I'm scared for my safety" and not get laughed out of here. That's Something Awful in 2016 for you though. really makes u think
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Oct 13, 2016 07:39
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Princess Di posted:My point is I don't know that yet. Also, I don't know if that's true specifically for me and people like me yet. After all, if anyone can get sued at any time for false war crime charges, I'm sure that I will have to review my travel plans. You can't be sued because of the bill, because it only applies to foreign states, not individuals.
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Oct 13, 2016 07:44
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Princess Di, if a foreign government was going to imprison you in order to take action against the United States, it was going to do so regardless of your race and it was going to do so regardless of this bill Black people face a lot of terrible treatment around the world, but I can't see how that intersects with a country like Iran or North Korea furthering international pariah status by holding American hostages - and I especially can't see how that intersection, as narrow as it would have to be, would be bolstered by this piece of legislation which is basically just "A Resolution To Tell Saudi Arabia that We're Displeased, But Not Enough To Do Anything About It Or Stop Funding Your War Crimes In Yemen, Just Enough That We Will Allow Some Americans To Sue You If It Helps Our Re-Election Campaigns" Civilized Fishbot has issued a correction as of 22:07 on Oct 14, 2016 |
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Oct 14, 2016 22:03
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lol at any individual american who thinks this jeopardizes their personal safety
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Oct 14, 2016 22:34
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The argument that this bill is retarded is not about personal safety. The reason why this bill is dumb is 1. No foreign state is going to pay a citizen of another country 2. This means that to get awarded stuff the country that hosted the trial will need to seize assets that the sued country had in the host country 3. This then leads to a cycle of retaliation. It's one of those feel good bills that at best does nothing and at worst makes a problem worse instead of better.
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Oct 14, 2016 22:39
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Venom Snake posted:The argument that this bill is retarded is not about personal safety. Maybe not for you, but Princess Di was literally talking about their personal safety concerns: Princess Di posted:After all, if anyone can get sued at any time for false war crime charges, I'm sure that I will have to review my travel plans. And The Kingfish was concerned for the personal safety of the President: The Kingfish posted:Obama is not concern trolling. This law could potentially make it difficult for him to travel abroad in the future.
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Oct 14, 2016 23:09
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Maybe not for you, but Princess Di was literally talking about their personal safety concerns: Well I can tell you right now almost none of the people who voted for the bill read past the "9/11" part of it.
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Oct 14, 2016 23:18
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Maybe not for you, but Princess Di was literally talking about their personal safety concerns: I said it could potentially make things difficult for him in the future.
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Oct 14, 2016 23:48
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The Kingfish posted:I said it could potentially make things difficult for him in the future. which is insane, because this is a bill that allows US citizens to sue countries that committed terrorist acts, which is miles away from a country imprisoning/stopping the travel/doing whatever to the ex-president of the world's most powerful country Venom Snake posted:Well I can tell you right now almost none of the people who voted for the bill read past the "9/11" part of it. Okay?
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Oct 14, 2016 23:54
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Civilized Fishbot posted:which is insane, because this is a bill that allows US citizens to sue countries that committed terrorist acts, which is miles away from a country imprisoning/stopping the travel/doing whatever to the ex-president of the world's most powerful country It's a law that fucks around with the international precedent for sovereign immunity from civil liability & Obama is a man who commits a lot of terrorism.
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Oct 15, 2016 00:05
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The Kingfish posted:It's a law that fucks around with the international precedent for sovereign immunity from civil liability & Obama is a man who commits a lot of terrorism. In a world that cares about applying international law to America, Obama has those issues regardless of this bill. We live in a world that doesn't care about applying international law to America, the world's most powerful country, so Obama won't have any issues regardless of this bill Especially because a country's civil liability has nothing to do with the freedom and ability of its ex-head of state to travel freely, unless you're worried that some Pakistani court is going to successfully subpoena Barack Obama himself
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Oct 15, 2016 00:07
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Civilized Fishbot posted:In a world that cares about applying international law to America, Obama has those issues regardless of this bill. We live in a world that doesn't care about applying international law to America, the world's most powerful country, so Obama won't have any issues regardless of this bill "The world" is not limited to the US and its allies. I meant difficulty media wise. As in it would be really bad and awkward for Obama if he was traveling abroad and got served by some Yemeni expat.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:25
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The Kingfish posted:"The world" is not limited to the US and its allies. This bill allows people to sue countries, not former heads of state. it's literally more plausible that obama is served in the sense that he gets horribly beaten in a dance-off than that he is served in the sense that someone tries to sue him and anyone cares Here are the facts: Obama isn't going to get sued, he's always going to be protested, this bill doesn't change those things. He doesn't like the bill because it hurts the US-Saudi Arabia relationship, there's no need to make it some concern about his personal ability to travel
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Oct 15, 2016 01:40
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Ken Bone is still probably a better person than all of us. Edit: wrong thread
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Oct 15, 2016 01:57
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On topic: rationally, this bill probably isn't a good thing, but it's hard not to laugh at the embarrassment it's causing self-interested demagogue lawmakers and will eventually cause our bully country.
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Oct 15, 2016 01:59
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Just a heads up that the US has bilateral agreements with many countries on this sort of matter The concern is that the bill makes it very easy for partners to back out of such agreements should the day come when tit-for-tat measures are taken Diplomacy is played on 2 levels - domestic and international Keep in mind that the President and Congress are coming from two entirely different angles and are working different jobs with different motivations
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Oct 15, 2016 02:01
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Jewel Repetition posted:Ken Bone is still probably a better person than all of us. This is the right post for every thread.
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Oct 15, 2016 02:11
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