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I think our IGLAs, if deployed in forward positions, can defend us against enemy air assets. Lets say the enemy has some heavy poo poo, we are gonna want 100mm guns. A BMP-3 is at the very least twice as good
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Oct 2, 2016 02:05
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Also ask Iraq how well a 1970s Soviet vision of massed force works against a technoloigcally superior foe
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Oct 2, 2016 02:23
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Forums Terrorist posted:Also ask Iraq how well a 1970s Soviet vision of massed force works against a technoloigcally superior foe This, too. We don't wanna be bringing a force from 1986 to battleground in 2016
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Oct 2, 2016 02:26
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Phi230 posted:Lets say the enemy has some heavy poo poo, we are gonna want 100mm guns. The 100mm cannon is nice, but it's useful for knocking down buildings or killing squads. It can't hit vehicles at range (but that doesn't stop the CMx2 AI from trying in my experience). Don't forget that the ERA does absolutely nothing against TOW-2Bs or Javelins. We have a choice between TG3 23 IFVs with 30mm autocannon and 30mm grenade launchers, with modern ATGMs but crappy optics 18 rfile squads and associated support weapon systems 7 tanks with ERA, thermals, and modern fire control systems FO/FAC teams Two hinds One CAS aircraft Some crappy iglas TG2 10 IFVs (3 or 4 of which have moderate protection against the crappier ATGMs), with modern ATGMs and nice optics 9 rifles 3 tanks with ERA, thermals, and modern fire control systems One CAS chopper One multirole fighter Sexy tunguska I don't see how it's even close. When the attrition starts, we can soak up far more losses with TG-3 than with TG-2 and still retain vastly more fighting power for the other side to worry about. Forums Terrorist posted:Also ask Iraq how well a 1970s Soviet vision of massed force works against a technoloigcally superior foe Edit: woops I had the task group numbers reversed. abelian fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Oct 2, 2016 |
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Oct 2, 2016 02:28
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Also, much more importantly, the -3 is proof against autocannons frontally, the -2 isn't. A Javelin that fucks up a bump isn't loving up a squad or a T-90.
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Oct 2, 2016 02:28
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Forums Terrorist posted:A Javelin that fucks up a bump isn't loving up a squad or a T-90. All the more reason to have 23 BMPs and 7 T-72s.
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Oct 2, 2016 02:31
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I'm leaning towards the TG2 option. The extra infantry, plus assorted infantry-carried heavy weapons, is really hard for me to turn down.
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Oct 2, 2016 02:32
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Actually how heavy is the EW environment? Are our glorious comrades in the EW company shutting down NATO's eyes and ears?
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Oct 2, 2016 02:38
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To give everyone an idea of when I want to get this started, tentatively, the first round of orders will be due next Wednesday at midnight. Also known as Thursday, October 6th, 00:00 EST which is four days or so from now. That's not a very long time to come up with a battle-plan for an engagement this large, especially since orders have to trickle from top to bottom, but I'd like to give it a shot so I can get the first turn out before Thanksgiving. If this is too soon for anyone, let me know. I can run the turn either Thursday night or probably the following Tuesday at the earliest.
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Oct 2, 2016 02:39
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Will iglas fire against drones? iirc they don't, which is one reason I like the tunguska option. The other is the spotting of the -3M will be notably better than the -2M. Hard to say if that will be better enough to preserve vehicles to counteract the sheer number of -2Ms we would have. Again, iirc, I think the BMP-2M has a longer range ATGM that might matter on this huge map. I'm not sure how much the enemy will expose themselves to long-range shots over the huge open fields, but that is something. I am not very passionate about either option, but I tend to find spotting to be more important than almost anything else in a competently played match which factors into my thought. However, we can count on some accidental and inexperience-based incompetence so maybe the greater numbers are valuable. edit: There is no EW for either side per the scenario settings posted.
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Oct 2, 2016 02:40
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Forums Terrorist posted:Actually how heavy is the EW environment? Are our glorious comrades in the EW company shutting down NATO's eyes and ears? EW is not active for anyone. C2 that's less of a pain in the rear end is a nice feature of modern combat for everybody.
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Oct 2, 2016 02:40
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glynnenstein posted:Will iglas fire against drones? iirc they don't, which is one reason I like the tunguska option. The other is the spotting of the -3M will be notably better than the -2M. Hard to say if that will be better enough to preserve vehicles to counteract the sheer number of -2Ms we would have. They'll fire at the larger drones. The small drones would be invulnerable. But they don't have very much observational capability anyway (200m max radius, 1-2 minutes to move them IIRC). GI, what are the call-in times of our various artillery options looking like from both the FOs and the different officers?
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Oct 2, 2016 02:46
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abelian posted:They'll fire at the larger drones. The small drones would be invulnerable. But they don't have very much observational capability anyway (200m max radius, 1-2 minutes to move them IIRC). With your current artillery: Forward Observer: 3-4 minutes for 82mm self propelled mortars (2S24) 5 minutes for 152mm self-propelled artillery (S219M2) Any HQ: 5-6 minutes for 82mm mortar 6-7 minutes for 152mm artillery Main modifier for call in time is experience. There was a 'green' officer mixed in somewhere who would take ~9 minutes to call in the big guns.
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Oct 2, 2016 03:25
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Ok, thanks. With those kinds of call-in times, we should probably consider saving a good chunk of our indirect fires instead of using it in a pre-planned barrage. Let me also re-post our orders, for a reminder/clarification: Generation Internet posted:Your mission is to close the gap. Friendly units to our south-east have been pursing allied units towards the highway, estimated to be roughly a battalion's worth of mixed American and Ukrainian units desperately trying to make their way to friendly lines. We must deny them the use of the highway and destroy as many military assets as we can. Our ultimate objective is capturing the village of Bystryk on the opposite side of the highway in order to secure our own supply line while denying its use to the enemy. Should resistance prove too great, focus on continued denial of the highway to ensure no enemy units escape to Krolevets as well as the destruction of precious enemy assets. Reserve units are rushing to relieve the rest of the 20th Motor Rifles on the outskirts of the city and elements of 2nd Battalion will be joining you within the hour to help secure this strategically vital sector. We have to capture the village if possible, and failing that, deny them use of the highway, and failing that, don't let them escape.
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Oct 2, 2016 03:34
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abelian posted:Ok, thanks. With those kinds of call-in times, we should probably consider saving a good chunk of our indirect fires instead of using it in a pre-planned barrage. So with that in mind... abelian posted:All right, I've been heads down trying to finish this contour map without any distractions. I finally have a version that doesn't look like complete poo poo. It makes a lot more sense to try and hold the terrain to the west of the crossroads to contest the high ground and block an escape. Second objective should be to contest the crossroads.
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Oct 2, 2016 04:14
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Who commands the company heavy weapon platoons?
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Oct 2, 2016 04:23
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Fray posted:Who commands the company heavy weapon platoons? They're company level assets, so the company commander. Again, not a rule set in stone or anything, you can feel free to subordinate them to your platoon commanders as you see fit.
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Oct 2, 2016 04:24
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Generation Internet, what do the engineers have? Do they have mines etc? Do the American troops, those Geneva-naysayers, theoretically have mines and such?
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Oct 2, 2016 05:40
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Gamerofthegame posted:Generation Internet, what do the engineers have? Do they have mines etc? Do the American troops, those Geneva-naysayers, theoretically have mines and such? Just flipped through the manual to confirm, the main thing that distinguishes them from a regular combat squad is that they have a shitload of demolition charges. They can breach through obstacles all the way to Kiev. Both sides are arriving at this battlefield around the same time, neither has had time to prepare it with defenses.
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Oct 2, 2016 05:47
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Alright, here are my thoughts on this matter. Our first priority, and the priority to which I say we dedicate the majority of our efforts, is establishing and holding a pocket to trap the NATO forces in the area. Eliminating the pocket is a secondary concern - our forces pursuing from the south will arrive and destroy the enemy if we can maintain the pocket, although if we find ourselves in the position to liquidate it ourselves that will be attempted. I expect overwhelming enemy air presence. Our air defenses must be well managed, moving forward to cover our advance in stages. I recommend that any infantry not on the move dismount from their vehicles and disperse into trees a distance away from the transport. I expect there to be a significant relief force trying to break into our pocket coming from the West, while the enemy tries to break out from the East. I do not fancy a glorious charge across an open field into prepared ATGM positions. When our reinforcements get here, we'll think about it. By the way, I want option 2, Task Group 3. Our goal is to form a noose in the early stage of this fight, and then if we find ourselves in advantageous positions eliminate the pocket. That will require losses, and I think the mass of the second option will be the better choice. Also can't say no to Hinds. With that in mind, here is the plan as I have conceived it so far, for your thoughts and criticisms.  1st Coy will move along the western route. Battalion scouts will advance ahead and find you a path through those southern woods. You have the following objectives: A. Establish an ambush along their southern road with ATGM's and tanks, in the area marked in purple. This will attack enemies attempting to exit the combat zone, and ambush any reinforcements attempting to use that road. B. Establish an ambush in the trees around the western part of the highway, to act as a light line of defense to attack escaping troops and to ambush any relief forces moving along the highway. C. Follow the Battalion Scouts with a heavy force south, and attempt to find a flanking route to form a staging area for an attack on the village itself. 2nd Coy will move toward the center of the map and establish itself in the hills and woods around the highway. You have the following objectives: A. Establish armored overwatch along the highway, looking BOTH East and West. B. Root yourselves along the highway such that any attempt to move along it would result in bitter fighting and ambushes along the whole route. C. Establish overall dominance of the North/South movement along the highway. 3rd Coy will move into the nearby village and then the bulk of the forces will divert to the woods and hills just south. Your ATGM's along with BattCom assets will form a defense line in the north facing the highway. You have the following objectives: A. Using ATGM's establish yourselves in overwatch positions in and around our village to harass enemy units attempting to utilize the crossroads and nearby woods. B. Maintain your tanks in safe positions, but ready to move out in case of opportunity. C. Maintain force integrity to act as a reserve to support 1st or 2nd Coy in case of necessity, or to counteract a strong enemy push north. Support Coy will move its anti-infantry assets along with 1st and 2nd Platoon, attempting to join the flanking force in the south where you will be better able to close to effective range without being harassed by long range ATGM's with no recourse. Battalion ATGM teams will join 3rd Coy in the north to set up a firing line of ATGM's overlooking the road on the longest sightlines will have. Anti-aircraft Platoon will need to maintain a portion of its assets deployed and ready, while moving others to set up a new umbrella as our forces move forward. Battalion Recon will advance ahead of 1st Coy and find them a route through those southern woods so we can spring a pack of T-90's and a whole host of other nastiness into the flanks of the enemy. Battalion Command assets will be dispersed according to need. I expect our spotters will be in the North for the good sightlines, while the Battalion command tank will travel with 1st Coy. Our Artillery will begin a pre-arranged bombardment of their major roadways to slow and damage any assets moving along them to buy time for our forces to properly deploy. We will save a fair bit of ammunition for use in the later stages of the battle, but these bombardments will be heavy enough to dissuade enemies to simply stroll though it. In this way we will use firepower to buy time. The intention is to form a noose around the enemy, such that use of the highway is impossible and the southern route is similarly denied. Once this is established will we begin to squeeze the enemy, but we will wait for reinforcements to try and liquidate the pocket. I expect there to be attacks from both directions in the meantime. Please let me know of any concerns, criticisms or thoughts you have to this plan. professor_curly fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Oct 2, 2016 |
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Oct 2, 2016 06:38
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You mentioned in an earlier rendition of the plan that you didn't want NATO eyes seeing what we were up to if you could help it. WP smoke blocks thermals, right? Could we use 120mm WP in a line along Victory Road (or perpendicular to Route 23) to help screen our movements? EDIT: Also, I believe it was mentioned in roll20 that we'd changed up our artillery options to 2S34 Chosta 120mm mortars and MSTA M2 152mm howitzers, correct? Can we get a finalized OOB reflecting this as well as other potentially sticky equipment questions (e.g. company level ATGMs are AT-13 Metys, battalion level ATGMs are AT-14 Kornet)? Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Oct 2, 2016 |
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Oct 2, 2016 07:32
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So who made it over from the open thread? About time for everyone to check in and finish filling out the order of battle.
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Oct 2, 2016 09:18
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Jaguars! posted:So who made it over from the open thread? About time for everyone to check in and finish filling out the order of battle. Infantry company CO reporting in. professor_curly, where do you want me?
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Oct 2, 2016 09:23
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Second and third company's CO positions still need commanders on the spreadsheet. Take your pick I guess.
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Oct 2, 2016 11:19
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1/2 - Yooper checking in.
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Oct 2, 2016 12:53
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It's easy to miss in this thread's OP but there's a second signup for specific unit assignments: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k-d6mtH8Ln1EMBSg-UNs6QntbevMiPRXV2THc4kqJQU/edit#gid=0 Everybody who can should drop into the Roll20 to offer input! CORRECTED LINK: https://app.roll20.net/join/1705309/x__W3Q glynnenstein fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Oct 2, 2016 |
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Oct 2, 2016 13:24
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I concur with curly's plan though we should have something covering Victory Road do we have SADARM ammo for our arty?
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Oct 2, 2016 14:56
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 Brothers! Let us review our equipment and capabilities, briefly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gvsjfw8wY0 Lieutenants Forrums Terrorist Hubis Fray Each of you commands a platoon of our brave infantry. Three BTR-82s will transport your force; this is a lightly armored, fast, amphibious APC. It is suitable to protect the men from artillery shrapnel and light small arms. Heavy machine guns can and will penetrate the armor so they and all larger weapons must be avoided; there are IR smoke launchers for emergency defense. Its most useful asset besides speed is IR optics; from a concealed position it can help spot the enemy at a distance. It is armed with a 14.5mm machine gun that can be used to support the dismounted infantry and against light armored vehicles. When in combat, keep the men clear of the vehicle by 10 meters at least as the vehicle's destruction can be dangerous. It contains spare ammunition in the form of 400 5.45mm rounds, 2 grenades, 4 RPG-26 tubes, 5 RPG-7V rockets that can be ACQUIREed by the men. The command squad is two men with AK-74Ms (500m effective range). Each squad has two AK-74Ms, two AK-74Ms with GP-30 grenade launchers (200m), one RPG-7V2 rocket launcher(200m point target, 1000m area target), 1 SVD sniper rifle (800m), and one PKP squad machine gun (800m). The squad is also armed with one potent RPG-26 AT rocket (250m). Squads can be divided so that there is a pretty even split (AK-74M, AK-74M/GP-30, RPG-7V2), OR a scout group of two men (AK-74Ms), OR an assault group of three men (two AK-74Ms, one AK-74M/GP-30), OR an anti-tank team of two men (AK-74M, RPG-7V2, RPG-26 and all rocket reloads). Senior Lieutenant Koolkevz666 You command our armor platoon. This is three T-90A tanks which feature defensively: laser detectors, electro-optical jammer, ERA, and smoke launchers. The armor protection is nearly our best, but given the terrain we are operating in, the sides are very vulnerable. We will lack the advantage of range against inferior Ukrainian tanks and are outclassed by American tanks. Offensively you have a decent IR optic and an assortment of 125mm 21 HE, 8 T-HEAT, 14 APFSDS rounds and 4 AT-11 ATGMs (5,000m) as well as 300 12.7mm AP-I and 2,000 7.62x64R machine gun rounds. You will need to advance behind an infantry screen in the woods until we can maneuver into areas with open sight-lines. I will make an orders post later today unless our plans change. glynnenstein fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Oct 2, 2016 |
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Oct 2, 2016 16:01
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glynnenstein posted:Everybody who can should drop into the Roll20 to offer input! https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/1705309/cmbs-goon-vs-goon-mk2-redfor I'm getting a not-authorized error. How can I get into the roll20? It's worked in every other CM LP.
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Oct 2, 2016 18:29
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abelian posted:Roll20 is up: Here's the link to actually join and not just the one straight to the campaign.
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Oct 2, 2016 18:33
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 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjINuMEuSKA Tovarishiy! STAVKA in its wisdom has decided to allot our Motor Rifle Coy. to a defense in depth! We shall defend Viridian city with with the utmost tenacity that is expected of the Red Army! Briefing is as follows: Praporshchiks Katznmaus - 3 coy./1 pltn. Jaguars! - 3 coy./2 pltn. DSM - 3 coy./3 pltn Unfilled Armor Slot 1). SITUATION We are tasked with defending VIRIDIAN CITY as apart of a larger operation. 1 and 2 coy will be to our right flank, to the Southwest. NATO mechanized troops consisting of UKR motor rifles and US tanks are advancing. We are assuming a defensive posture. Our forces consist of 3 Platoons, with 3x BTR-82s each. A weapons squad with ATGMs with 2x BTRs, and 3x T-90As as well. 2). MISSION Our mission is to defend VIRIDIAN CITY and provide overwatch for 1 and 2 coy. 3). EXECUTION TANK platoon and WEAPONS platoon will take up defensive positions along the Eastern edge of Virdian city, providing overwatch EASTWARD toward Victory Road. 3 Platoon infantry will occupy the town in defensive positions. 3 Platoon Motorized Element (BTRs) will form a Bronegruppa and provide fire support for 3 Platoon 1 Platoon and 2 Platoon will move to GREEN SQUARE to support 2 COY Good luck, comrades. The motherland is counting on us. End Briefing. Phi230 fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Oct 2, 2016 |
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Oct 2, 2016 19:11
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I appreciate your elan, Phi, but unfortunately I can't accept your orders because you wrote them for a country and higher command that no longer exist  Also Stavka isn't an acronym
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Oct 2, 2016 19:18
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Orders are a go as previously stated. Don't feel overly bound to the exact coordinates of these boxes, but they are a guide to what I want. The only change is 2nd Coy: I'm assigning the entire length of Victory Road in the west to 2nd Coy. Platoon sized ambush sections, particularly at the western edge of the combat zone to pre-empt any relief force, are recommended. Keep your troops dispersed and under cover. You'll keep NATO forces from potentially attacking into 1st Coy's rear as they flank southward, and hold the pocket against enemy breakout attempts. Let me know if anyone has questions or concerns. Again, utilize the terrain effectively, don't feel bound to the act coordinates of these boxes I've drawn. If you're men aren't moving, get them out of their transports and under trees. Battalion level assets: The Recon Platoon will advance ahead of 1st Coy's route and find a good path for their flank southward. The ATGM platoon will assist in setting up a firebase with 3rd Coy's weapons platoons and tanks. The anti-infantry weaponry (mortars, HGL's), will follow along to the southern flanking movement after 1st Coy and 2nd Coy have secured the route south. The AA platoon will leapfrog their way forward to cover each stage of the advance. It may be beneficial to let a team of them lead a column of advance so they can move our umbrella of AA forward and set up for the advancing forces. I think that the ambush overlooking the Southern Road will be a good location for the Battalion T-90. Let me know if there are any questions or concerns with this plan.
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Oct 2, 2016 19:24
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Generation Internet posted:I appreciate your elan, Phi, but unfortunately I can't accept your orders because you wrote them for a country and higher command that no longer exist THE SOVIET UNION EXISTS IN THE HEARTS OF ALL RUSSIAN MEN
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Oct 2, 2016 19:25
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Also in our Roll20 I have created labelled Icons with names and Coy/Platoon/Squad listings. They are under "battle group" - you can copy+past them onto the secret plans so you can work out specifically what order everyone will advance in. These early turns will be alot of weirdness because the game doesn't like Column movement very much, so we'll need to use the Delay order judiciously to make sure everyone moves out in an orderly fashion. I've also created a map with the road listings. There are enough paths that each Coy should have its own axis of advance so we don't have inter-coy traffic jams, unless 1st and 2nd Coy cross paths on victory road. Let me know if you have questions.
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Oct 2, 2016 19:32
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Comrades! I see that the NATO thread has a lower postcount than ours in a margin of over 2 SOVIET POSTS for every one NATO DOG post! Their lack of preparedness will be their downfall! This has been a visit from your friendly neighborhood Political Officer
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Oct 2, 2016 19:40
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  1st Company Orders! The lines on the map are not prescribed paths but a general outline. Only at the Flo Rida Swamp where there are chokepoints do we have to follow the lines. The weather is light rain with wet ground that is likely to inhibit vehicle travel in questionable spots and limit aircraft effectiveness slightly. Our enemy is a mixed Ukrainian/American reinforced battalion of mechanized infantry and armor. The size and composition of the elements in our immediate area is unclear, but we can anticipate possibly company or larger sized infantry with supporting IFV, APC, and tank assets. Helicopter and jet airstrikes are a significant concern. The enemy is likely to attempt to secure their flank and areas with longer sight-lines must be entered cautiously. Sudden contact in the close quarters of these wooded hills is likely. Our battalion is attempting to secure the enemy within a pocket and to poise for an attack on the town in the south. 2nd Co will secure the road from enemy escape or reinforcement and will protect our rear as we probe south. 3rd Co will serve as reserve and secure the road in the north. Battalion recon will precede our probe and battalion support assets will reinforce our positions at the southern edge of the wooded hills where enemy armor contact is deemed likely. Our mission is to probe and transit the wooded hills South of Victory Road with the intent of forming a flanking attack on the Southern town. We will move with haste to reform at and just south of Victory Road. From there we will follow battalion recce through favorable paths to attacking positions in the south. In the immediate term, form travel columns and traverse along the indicated areas toward Victory Road to the south. Form up from WEST TO EAST 1st Platoon, 2nd Platoon, 3rd Platoon. Spread out to avoid congested traffic (which will be to some degree unavoidable.) EDIT Armor platoon is to hold back one minute and then proceed behind the infantry platoons. In the event that our primary path through the Flo Rida Swamp is congested or under enemy barrage, 1st Platoon will attempt the secondary route to the west. Others will follow if this does not prove problematic; else further orders will clarify. If anything is unclear, speak up. It will take some coordination to line everyone up at the start so DRAW MAPS so we can see where people are placing themselves. I expect it will take several turns just to sort out starting movements.  1st Co HQ orders UPDATED  ATGM teams in one BTR, HMG team and platoon Leader in the other. HQ, ATGM BTR, HMG BTR: Wait 2 turns then proceed QUICK, MOVE, QUICK as per the map glynnenstein fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 2, 2016 20:01
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3 COY. ORDERS I leave it to my Lieutenants to carry out the spirit of these orders.  ADDENDUM; 1 Platoon is to move a few hundred meters SOUTH to provide better fire support on the highway/flanking position 2 Platoon must be ready to flank NORTHEAST in case of heavy NATO forces charging Veridian City through the Northern Causeway.
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Oct 2, 2016 21:00
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1/3 Orders - Updated 10/5 Setup Column formation in the box, pointed south. About 30m spacing. 3rd BTR in front, 2nd in middle, 1st in rear. Infantry mounted in their default vehicles. Orders PAUSE 30 seconds, then move QUICK per yellow lines. I especially want to stay on the road when passing through the marshes. If my vehicles get jammed up with each other, please add some 5s staggered pauses to sort them out. Contingencies I want to stay behind the battalion recon no matter what. Please reduce my movement speed if necessary to ensure this. If the marsh crossing is under bombardment, halt at the blue dot. To my fellow platoon commands We should coordinate to avoid jams at the crossing. My understanding from our CO is that the travel order for the main crossing is: Recon, 3rd, 2nd, 1st. Let's try to maintain this with staggered pauses as necessary. Decoy Badger let me know if you need me to add a pause command so you can get ahead of me. Fray fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Oct 6, 2016 |
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Oct 2, 2016 21:41
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Fray posted:My understanding from our CO is that the travel order for the main crossing is: Recon, 3rd, 2nd, 1st. Let's try to maintain this with staggered pauses as necessary. That was my intent, yeah. edit: Generation Internet I've missed it if it was mentioned somewhere. Are there going to be more than one turn run on the first set of orders?
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Oct 2, 2016 21:46
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