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Srice posted:It has a strong start, but then it meanders for awhile and the villains suck. I'm waiting on season 2 to finish before watching more and I feel like if you haven't seen anything Gundam in awhile your best bet would be to check out other things you missed (personally I say G-Reco, which I feel is a stronger show than IBO by every metric) while waiting to see if IBO season 2 screws the pooch or not. This is very close to my own opinion. I'm not really going to be able to form a final opinion on IBO until I see where S2 goes because S1 fumbles the ending and it depends on if that fumble is picked up in S2 or not.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:41
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Srice posted:It has a strong start, but then it meanders for awhile and the villains suck. I'm waiting on season 2 to finish before watching more and I feel like if you haven't seen anything Gundam in awhile your best bet would be to check out other things you missed (personally I say G-Reco, which I feel is a stronger show than IBO by every metric) while waiting to see if IBO season 2 screws the pooch or not.
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Oct 5, 2016 21:46
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ImpAtom posted:This is very close to my own opinion. I'm not really going to be able to form a final opinion on IBO until I see where S2 goes because S1 fumbles the ending and it depends on if that fumble is picked up in S2 or not. Yeah. I think the deciding factor for me was that I didn't find McGillas very compelling overall but a lot of what he did near the end of S1 was setting up for a payoff in S2 so it's always possible it could retroactively turn my opinion around on him...but it would have to be a heck of a payoff to feel worth it to me. And in a franchise where the villains are frequently some of the most interesting characters from the get-go that's just a bummer!
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Oct 5, 2016 21:52
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Mm. Sounds like I'll be better served by getting back around to g-reco before picking this one up. Thanks for the tips, all.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:07
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Honestly, I'd say that G-Reco is a weaker show by most metrics. Yes, I get the themes and message (it's a polemic on the Japanese rearmament debate criticising the ignorance, superstition, and bloodlust surrounding it and stressing the importance of education and dialogue), but the manic pacing (which still only managed to trace through a similar number of actual plot points to IBO), bizarre dialogue, and storytelling that's halfway between an interesting puzzle to decode and 'oh poo poo we forgot to animate a couple of pages of the script' seriously damage emotional investment in the whole thing, and the ending is similarly limp to IBO S1. Bellri is also definitely a weaker lead than Mikazuki by any metric, with an even more muddled arc - in fact, much of the cast is weaker, due to them being outsized allegorical symbols more than characters. The colour palette was nicer, and the character designs more consistently good,, but those are the only outright advantages I can think of - the action and mechanical designs were excellent, but IBO's were simply a very different flavour of excellent. I also felt that the villains improved towards the end of IBO. Carta was a lady Mashmyre with all of her predecessor's humour and tragedy, Gaelio became one of the most moral, upstanding, and likeable members of the cast despite being implacably opposed to the heroes, McGillis was a superlative Char clone with some clever twists, and while Nobliss was a very archetypal evil, warmongering corporate overlord, the way that the heroes interacted with him was pretty interesting. The rogues' gallery were weak overall, but there were enough standouts that I wouldn't call them an outright wash. We're not looking at, say, an AGE-tier void here.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:10
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IBO is by no means AGE-tier. It is at worst strictly average and unwilling to commit to messages which still puts it ahead of a good chunk of other Gundam. That said I also don't find Mikazuki in S1 by itself a very compelling lead. He's likable and hilarious at times and has some genuinely excellent moments but he feels very static and a lot of the interesting buildup just kind of gets left to linger for S2. Like I said though, that's a "in S1 by itself." How S2 handles him will matter a lot. (And even at his worst he's still in at least the upper-middle tier of Gundam protagonists.) Basically like I said "Season 2 is gonna determine a lot." It's not even like 00 S1 where you can kinda just watch it on its own. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 22:12
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I liked Iron-Blooded Orphans a lot. I agree that it kind of fizzles a bit towards the end, but I think that was just because they had to delay some stuff for the second season, and the second season is happening now so It's not a huge problem IMO. I liked G-Reco too, but it seems to have been pretty divisive online. I don't think I'd give it an unqualified recommendation to someone who wanted to watch a Gundam
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Oct 5, 2016 22:15
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ImpAtom posted:IBO is by no means AGE-tier. It is at worst strictly average and unwilling to commit to messages which still puts it ahead of a good chunk of other Gundam. I agree, but I was specifically talking about the villains, one of its weakest parts. One thing I do like about S2 is that everything seems hunky-dory in a very fragile way for Tekkadan. They've confirmed that Orga is genuinely noble, and is genuinely trying to pursue Kudelia's vision, but Mika is still dangerously unstable, and they're still caught between two entirely untrustworthy factions who they owe enormous debts to. It's obvious that they'll end up in conflict with Gjallarhorn again (probably so that McGillis can use them to eliminate his dangerous new political rival), but their relationship with Teiwaz also feels deeply suspect - they've got a staunch friend in Naze, but even he can only do so much to protect them if McMurdo starts getting ideas, and they're in far too deep to easily pull out.
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Oct 5, 2016 22:25
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Here's the English site, complete with brief suit and character profiles. The Brewer kids are all Altlands now. 
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Oct 5, 2016 23:04
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Season 2 opening post timeskip on a point of 'objectives achieved, but...' gives me more faith than the s1 finale did. I'll be following the release to see if it can really dig in on some of the themes it's flirted with in the past now that we're heading into the second half.
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Oct 6, 2016 02:46
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Dulkor posted:Season 2 opening post timeskip on a point of 'objectives achieved, but...' gives me more faith than the s1 finale did. I'll be following the release to see if it can really dig in on some of the themes it's flirted with in the past now that we're heading into the second half. On the other hand, it's another example of the show's tenuous relationship with show, don't tell.
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Oct 6, 2016 04:29
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Darth Walrus posted:I agree, but I was specifically talking about the villains, one of its weakest parts. One thing I do like about S2 is that everything seems hunky-dory in a very fragile way for Tekkadan. They've confirmed that Orga is genuinely noble, and is genuinely trying to pursue Kudelia's vision, but Mika is still dangerously unstable, and they're still caught between two entirely untrustworthy factions who they owe enormous debts to. It's obvious that they'll end up in conflict with Gjallarhorn again (probably so that McGillis can use them to eliminate his dangerous new political rival), but their relationship with Teiwaz also feels deeply suspect - they've got a staunch friend in Naze, but even he can only do so much to protect them if McMurdo starts getting ideas, and they're in far too deep to easily pull out. Considering how IBO is occasionally fond of symbolism, it's probably relevant that Mika's big save at the start of the first season came when he burst out from the Martian dust. Season 2 kicks off with the Barbatos Lupus crashing down from the heavens.
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Oct 6, 2016 04:32
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This will be the show to break the second season curse.
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Oct 6, 2016 09:19
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Microcline posted:On the other hand, it's another example of the show's tenuous relationship with show, don't tell. Not really? I mean, they told us that Gjallarhorn had lost control and that other PMCs had followed Tekkadan's example and started arming up with child soldiers and mobile suits. Then at the end of the episode, Tekkadan gets attacked by a pirate group with considerably more firepower and manpower than the Gjallarhorn detachment that hit them in the first episode of S1. We were told, and then we were shown. Incidentally, a next episode preview has come out, and points to everyone who correctly guessed McGillis's contact on Mars.
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Oct 6, 2016 11:34
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The colony revolution arc was the best part of season 1 and I hope for another great curveball like it
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Oct 6, 2016 13:26
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uh, wow:
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Oct 6, 2016 14:38
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That's Kudelia's PA, she seems cool.
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Oct 6, 2016 16:59
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Finally caught the first episode. Love it, ready for more. Bring on Iron-Blooded season 2.
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Oct 7, 2016 10:26
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Kit previews show that the Vidar has a unique head to its inner frame similar to that on the Kimaris Trooper. Remember, Vidar is the Norse god of vengeance who killed the wolf Fenrir (Barbatos Lupus, anyone?) to avenge his father Odin. Between this and using Carta's old Ritter as his command vehicle to honour her memory, McGillis must have to replace the floor in his office every so often because of the wear and tear from his colossal brass balls.
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Oct 7, 2016 18:18
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Darth Walrus posted:Between this and using Carta's old Ritter as his command vehicle to honour her memory There's no reason to believe this to be true. He's in charge of her old fleet, so he uses the same kind of robot she did.
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Oct 7, 2016 20:01
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Droyer posted:There's no reason to believe this to be true. He's in charge of her old fleet, so he uses the same kind of robot she did.
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Oct 7, 2016 20:32
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Darth Walrus posted:Kit previews show that the Vidar has a unique head to its inner frame similar to that on the Kimaris Trooper. Oh dang, it really is Attack on Titan
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Oct 7, 2016 20:48
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Droyer posted:There's no reason to believe this to be true. He's in charge of her old fleet, so he uses the same kind of robot she did. He specifically mentions carrying on her will in that Gjallarhorn conference, and I believe magazine scans confirmed that it was her reconstructed and customised machine rather than just another one from the same line. I think it's reasonable to put two and two together as his outward justification for using it.
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Oct 8, 2016 00:13
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e02 is up. e; some thoughts: The new OP is much better than either of the previous two, but the new ED still isn't as good as Orphans no Namida. I'm glad the show continues the trend of Tekkadan being used as pawns by basically everyone, and that McGillis isn't an antagonist from the start. I'm kind of hoping he doesn't end up being one overtly even by the end of the show. Also, I've missed Mika's murder eyes. 
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 12:28
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Yep, that masked man is totally Gali-Gali. How nice of Isaac Clarke to lend him a mask. It is good to know that success hasn't made Tekkadan lose their values of taking care of each other, but they're still not out of the woods... and the show still isn't afraid to show them, and the world that created them, as hosed up.
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Oct 9, 2016 13:44
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The McMurdo scene did remind me how much it sucks that Naze has gotten zero growth over the entire show so far. They really should have had Ein's victims die at the end of s01 and had Naze resent Orga for it, opening a rift between the two of them that slowly grew over the years, resulting in Orga getting closer to Barriston and making the Turbines antagonistic to Tekkadan. Instead, Naze is still just the generically supportive cool big brother figure he's been from the start. It's a boring waste of his character. 
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 13:47
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If the second Masked Man is Gali Gali, how in the hell did McGillis botch up killing him so badly?
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Oct 9, 2016 13:48
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resurgam40 posted:Yep, that masked man is totally Gali-Gali. How nice of Isaac Clarke to lend him a mask. I really don't think that's the case, personally. There's no evidence for it.
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Oct 9, 2016 13:50
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Raxivace posted:If the second Masked Man is Gali Gali, how in the hell did McGillis botch up killing him so badly? You mean besides the blade kinda visibly going in to the chest alongside the cockpit last season?
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Oct 9, 2016 14:16
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Well, where's the evidence for otherwise? Remember, we never saw any body, just like we never saw the bodies for the Turbine girls and they were all left alive. I suppose it might be somebody else, but there's no one else who has the knowledge or inclination to fight McGillis at this point, and introducing ba new character would be odd at this juncture. Besides, that long-shot of Gaillo's machine just collapsing is really suspicious... McGillis might be crafty, but he's still human, he could have made a mistake. He's still employing Space-Hitler, after all 
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Oct 9, 2016 14:22
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I like that Kudelia is officially part of the Atra/Mikazuki family.  Lemon-Lime posted:I really don't think that's the case, personally. There's no evidence for it. Given last seasons theme of knowing who the person is and you can tell how they'll react, it was pretty heavy handed that the person at least knows who McGillis really is. And the only two people that can claim that are Gali-Gali and the Chocolate Man himself. Cao Ni Ma fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 14:42
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Hush's backstory is incredibly loving dark, even by the standards of this series.
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Oct 9, 2016 15:11
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I didn't realize Aston was in season 1. I'm glad at the very least, they kept their stance to not spam battles every episode and they seem to make more self-aware jokes about it. Despite all these new characters, it really does feel like an expansion of the world that doesn't overshadow the new ones. We already seen Mika's journey, so using him as a boogeyman legend to keep in presence while not actually taking all the side development is cool.
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Oct 9, 2016 15:11
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Tae posted:I didn't realize Aston was in season 1. He was one of the Human Debris liberated from the Brewers last season; we only really saw him again as the cavalry for the big battle at the end of season one, so I don't blame you for forgetting him. It's nice to see that he's adjusting well, though. Speaking of which, I'm glad Akihiro and... um, other guy have finally gotten rid of that red stripe. The fact the Tekkadan, broken and bloodthirsty as they still might be (well, as Mika still is),really did embrace the values they espoused still firmly entrenches them as Good Guys in my book; "as we would not be slaves," and all that.
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Oct 9, 2016 15:28
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Cao Ni Ma posted:it was pretty heavy handed that the person at least knows who McGillis really is. And the only two people that can claim that are Gali-Gali and the Chocolate Man himself. McGillis might know people other than the people who were introduced in season 1, because the list of characters he was seen onscreen with in s01 isn't an exhaustive list of all the people McGillis ever interacted with throughout his entire fictional life.
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Oct 9, 2016 15:40
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Ah, I had suspicions about McGillis's game before, and this episode has confirmed them. Rustal is just too dangerous to him. He's the whip-smart war hero commander of the single mightiest fleet in the solar system, and he doesn't like or trust McGillis. Therefore, in order for our boy to gain total control of Gjallarhorn, he needs to die. Stage one, pose as a justifiably-anonymous enemy of one of the most powerful men in the solar system, and gain Rustal's trust with half-truths about his rival's nefarious schemes. Stage two, bait him into taking on a pirate-extermination mission near the stomping ground of one of your past assets, don your disguise, and go along with him. Stage three, activate that past asset and give them the same mission without letting them know that Gjallarhorn's on their way, and send your loyal subordinate to work with them (helpfully implying that you'll be elsewhere when poo poo goes down). Stage four, as the three forces clash, you and your assistant engineer a conflict between Tekkadan and Gjallarhorn (say, by attacking each other), and then feed Rustal to Mika. Tekkadan now have the full might of the vengeance-crazed Arianrhod Fleet on their tails, so the evidence should swiftly, if messily, dispose of itself. If he wants, he could even release evidence on the incestuous web between Nobliss, Teiwaz, the Martian separatists, and the Dawn in order to take down all his potential/actual enemies at once. That should give us our plot for the rest of the season. It's been stressed that a world without Gjallarhorn isn't actually all that great, and it needs reform rather than destruction, but the problem is that the current leader, while somewhat interested in reform, is a cold-blooded, power-hungry backstabber with a gigantic chip on his shoulder, and simply does not have the temperament or mindset to lead the organisation in the right direction. That implies that the main plot will be about creating a replacement for McGillis - presumably Iok. As a result, I reckon this season will be mainly about his arc - filling his mentor's enormous boots and pursuing vengeance against first Tekkadan and then, as he learns the truth (and gains sufficient enlightenment to the rest of the solar system's hardships to make him a good leader), against McGillis. Tragic Newtype romance with Julietta plausible but optional - Okada's a big ol' romantic, so there's decent odds on them turning out OK, and a healthy romance would underline Iok as McGillis's more virtuous successor, given the latter's nightmarish relationships with the women in his life.
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Oct 9, 2016 15:44
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my criticism of this episode is that way too many scenes occurred, without giving us a single moment to breathe. lots of quick cuts everywhere. tekkadan has gotten way too big for their and the audience's britches. this bodes badly for the rest of the season if they can't get it under control
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Oct 9, 2016 17:06
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Lemon-Lime posted:McGillis might know people other than the people who were introduced in season 1, because the list of characters he was seen onscreen with in s01 isn't an exhaustive list of all the people McGillis ever interacted with throughout his entire fictional life. That's true, but considering they're keeping the masked man's identity hidden from the audience, I doubt that will be the case. I'm not convinced it's Gaelio (and as I've mentioned before I think it would be lame if it was) but I think it's bound to be a character we've seen before.
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Oct 9, 2016 17:35
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Droyer posted:That's true, but considering they're keeping the masked man's identity hidden from the audience, I doubt that will be the case. I'm not convinced it's Gaelio (and as I've mentioned before I think it would be lame if it was) but I think it's bound to be a character we've seen before. Yeah, my guess is Ein, but I wouldn't bet on it.
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Oct 9, 2016 17:38
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Lemon-Lime posted:McGillis might know people other than the people who were introduced in season 1, because the list of characters he was seen onscreen with in s01 isn't an exhaustive list of all the people McGillis ever interacted with throughout his entire fictional life. I'm honestly going to think that some random dude that knew McGillis well enough and was wronged at one point by him propping up now as a masked pilot acting against him is probably worse writing than having Gali survive.
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Oct 9, 2016 17:40
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