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I doubt he could have Gjallarhorn interfere...so maybe we'll see the Grimgerde again.
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Oct 31, 2016 00:10
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I'm not entirely sure what Rustal and Galan's plan is either. I mean, the part where they keep McGillis from winning and thus hurting his rep is clear but that can't be all there is to it, or they're incredibly stupid to think Mars Tekkadan won't insert themselves into this. Sure, Mikazuki is the smash first, ask questions later sort of person but they can't seriously expect nobody to find out any of their set up, can they? The fact that McGillis is there on behalf of the SAU means that whatever short-term damage there is to their relationship, he'll do his darndest to patch up their relationship because he's worked so hard to get them on his side in the first place.
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Nov 7, 2016 09:13
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Tekkadan would just leave him as a red smear. I'd want to see what happens if Teiwaz gets their hands on him. Bad enough that he's selling out Teiwaz' interests but he's also ruining the relationship between Teiwaz and one of their most valuable branches.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:59
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Man, Iok is such a big gently caress up it kind of perfectly illustrates McGillis' point about the need for reform. Sure, Gjallarhorn isn't exactly running actively hunting down those things anymore but even Julieta knew what that thing was. Every time Iok goes out in a mobile suit he just locks down a portion of his own forces who need to cover inadequate rear end.Hunt11 posted:I think we may have been wrong about Gaileo. I don't know why but during the episode I started to think that he may actually be working with McGilles to take apart Rustal's forces. I know that there are issues with this idea but it does explain how Gaileo actually survived his encounter with McGilles. I've had this inkling for a little while. At least, if he's not actually in collusion with McGillis, he may be tackling the issue of Gjallarhorn's internal rot from his own end. My own pet theory is that he still wants revenge but he isn't objecting to the need for reform within Gjallarhorn.
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Dec 4, 2016 20:50
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We never saw Carta face off against non-Tekkadan mobile suits unfortunately.
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Dec 4, 2016 21:01
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It's hilarious how Iok has completely surpassed Carta in being terrible.
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Dec 11, 2016 19:13
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Darth Walrus posted:It's a classic example of 'a little learning is a dangerous thing'. Carta happily swanned around in her own little world, and wasn't a danger to herself or anyone else unless someone intruded on it. Iok, by contrast, is a highly active member of a major political faction, and so has the motive and information to apply his golden touch to problems across the solar system. It also really reflects badly on Rustal to let a dumbass like Iok flit around without restraint. Carta actually disobeyed orders and was manipulated by McGillis into situations where she'd just gently caress up more. Ordinarily the chain of command as well as her own sense of professionalism should've kept her from making some of the errors she's made, but she hosed up there. Iok seemingly has none of that. Rustal happily gives him command of a portion of the Arianrhod fleet. He deploys in combat alongside vastly superior pilots and learns not a single thing in any encounters. If Carta actually fought anyone other than Tekkadan we'd have an even better comparison because Iok seemingly can't even deal with mobile suits piloted by rebelling workers.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:04
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The Sandman posted:Iok is the head of one of the other families of the Seven Stars. Rustal pretty much has to give him enough rope to hang himself with if he wants to reign him in; otherwise, there'd be issues with one of the families ordering another one around. Well, that depends on if McGillis wants to reveal his ties to Tekkadan or not. This visit was supposed to be secret after all. Though he's kind of given up on that seeing as he's piloting his Graze Ritter instead of using a machine that isn't easily traced to him.
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Dec 12, 2016 00:08
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My pet theory is that Gaelio wants to get revenge on McGillis and spite him by rooting out the corruption within Gjallarhorn. By allying with Rustal, he gets a good look at some of his dealings so he'll have an idea of how to gently caress up the only group (so far, at least) within Gjallarhorn that is proactively going against McGillis.
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Dec 12, 2016 06:50
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Lemon-Lime posted:It turns out "reactivate an ancient, mass-murdering AI superweapon then kill it for political gains" was not something McGillis was willing to do, although now that it's awake through someone else's fault, may as well get the political gains in the process of killing it to stop it from murdering thousands. I see it another way. Rustal and Iok were operating under the idea that he'd just kill the inactive mobile armor and then show it off. Unless Rustal is just grossly misinformed, he'd know that a mobile armor is no pushover. You don't need to reactivate it to kill it, it's just that McGillis was incredibly cautious with it because he feared the worst. McGillis probably didn't care for getting the Order of the Seven Stars because his plans to reform Gjallarhorn thus far have been through unofficial channels rather than proper ones. Season 1 already showed that Gjallarhorn aren't exactly paragons of integrity. They kept doing research on the Alaya-Vijnana System despite their public stance of cybernetics = bad, and then went ahead and used it on one of their own. And then there's all that corruption and backroom dealing going against their supposed neutrality. Any sort of gains McGillis could make through the proper channels would only last so long as the rest of the Seven Stars and their factions are willing to respect them. An Order of the Seven Stars was not worth potentially waking up the mobile armor in the process, but now that the mobile armor is active, why not? It'd put him closer to Agnika Kaieru, who is pretty much a hero figure to him.
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Dec 12, 2016 14:24
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Nah, he knew that if Carta gave him a hug he'd have to join the Outer Earth Orbit Regulatory Joint Fleet.
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Dec 13, 2016 13:08
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Could be something like Zeon, with the Kaieru family/faction losing power and later getting scrubbed and forgotten about by Gjallarhorn.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:52
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Darth Walrus posted:From how the others were behaving, they were as tough as if not tougher than the Dawn Horizon crew. Hexa frames are consistently shown as very above-average machines used by elite mercenaries, and they were entirely equipped with them. So still only a minor speed-bump, but one you can brag about a little. Eh, I doubt they're anything special. The info on the Gundam fanwiki (accuracy may vary) is that it's the second most produced frame after the Rodis. We also saw SAU grunts using it a version called the Gilda. The Oceanian Federation's rebels weren't even equipped with anything Hugo-like. They had improvised weaponry/repurposed tools. The only one we saw who had real difficulty was Iok, and he's, well, Iok. Vidar's performance with the rebels is likely more just a display of his skill. Remember, mobile suit combat tends to devolve into melee battles because ranged weapons have difficulty disabling or destroying mobile suits. Most combat still starts with ranged combat because most pilots aren't confident or crazy enough to charge straight into close range where combat quickly becomes fatal. So far it's mostly been the Tekkadan crew that does it, and almost every good (but not necessarily great) pilot in the series has generally been capable of holding their own in melee. Vidar's performance in the battle against the rebels speaks more about his ability and confidence to pull it off so well. It's basically the space Kimaris' style all over again, albeit with a more compact and sleeker weapon. Argas fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 08:24
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Darth Walrus posted:They had Gildas, which were established as officer machines in the Arbrau arc, and since brute physical strength is a property of a frame rather than what's around it, Iok's statement that they were as strong as his Reginlaze (the peak of modern suit design, remember) is backed up by the stuff we saw Sandoval's Hugo wrecking crew do in the Dawn Horizon arc. The subs for when it first appeared (about 1:15 episode 31) calls it the main MS, which doesn't exactly suggest an officer's machine. There are Grazes there too but we're told that the SAU's inexperienced military is backed up by their local Gjallarhorn garrisons as well as the Outer Earth Orbit Regulatory Joint Fleet. There's nothing to really indicate they're officer-use. And I wouldn't take Iok's statement too literally because Iok is an idiot and he was making that statement from a single moment of contact rather than a protracted melee fight with a Hexa frame. Julieta's insight would probably be far more accurate than Iok's. Hell, she made a joke of the twins when they had her tied up. And the Dawn Horizon's Hugo trio were effective because they confidently engaged in close-combat in mobile suits that emphasized close combat, with big melee weapons and secondary limbs, as well as wire claws. Plus, the Hugo twins/trio worked as a team to make better use of their armaments. They wouldn't be able to put out as much ranged firepower as, say, three Dawn Horizon Garm Rodis but their focus is the melee and mutual support, and that's precisely what they focused on. It's been shown a lot that ranged combat simply isn't as immediately lethal as close combat, but the risk of entering a melee is that you are putting yourself into just as much risk as the other pilot. Vidar's performance is exceptional and notable because he charges into the melee and usually kills or disables them with a single strike. Yeah, a Gundam frame has numerous advantages over the other frames but it takes skill to do it the way he does.
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Dec 22, 2016 11:17
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I hope IBO makes it to SRW soon. I want a serious dramatic scene that's suddenly interrupted by sideways Mikazuki or Mika on his Hushmount.
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Dec 25, 2016 16:33
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They just need a really long extension cord hooked up to Barbatos' AV system.
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Dec 25, 2016 17:21
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Nevermind that it might not matter in the current era of Gjallarhorn since it's been centuries since the Calamity War. It's also really risky since McGillis risks overplaying his hand and alerting the others that he's trying to shake up the status quo more than a little bit of cleaning house. The whole Order of the Seven Stars relies on the other families recognizing what it means too.
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Dec 31, 2016 07:52
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Neddy Seagoon posted:They clearly did if their first leap of logic to McGillis' potential plans were "holy poo poo, he's going to try and snag himself an Order Sure but that was specifically the group of Gjallarhorn that were aligning themselves against McGillis. If you were already suspecting his motives, there's no way this was just going to be something small, otherwise why risk a secret meeting? And if their speculation was right, it doesn't mean they'd lay down and let McGillis elevate the Fareed family with another Order. But why take that risk? Unless it's enshrined in Gjallarhorn's rules as a thing, it's not really enforceable without just leaning on a tradition that's basically been buried and forgotten for 300 years because it hasn't been relevant. The Order, as it stands, doesn't really have a place in the modern Gjallarhorn. Even Vidar, in the subs at least, doesn't really bring it up as a concrete rule, just hearsay. I mean, we don't see the full meeting but the Order is only brought up during the meeting of the seven family heads as an accusation by Iok. There's no mention of there being an obligation to reward McGillis or Mika or Tekkadan with an Order. Plus, the whole idea was brought up by Vidar in the first place and it's not quite clear what his motives are. He doesn't seem to truly align with the Elion faction and is just using them.
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Jan 2, 2017 11:43
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Just have a mobile worker painted up to look like Barbatos' head with the v-fin
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Jan 14, 2017 05:07
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Phobophilia posted:I don't think a mobile worker would substitute, it's more like Mika and Barbatos have merged so much that bits of Mika's nervous system have been uploaded into Barbatos' internal network. Probably not, I'm just enjoying the mental image of a Barbatos'd version of IBO's Ball-equivalent.
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Jan 14, 2017 06:34
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Kanos posted:Given that we've been shown ample evidence that Jasley and the other Teiwaz bosses think of women as pieces of rear end and this entire episode was about how all the women in Teiwaz grouped together because they were being treated as fifth-class citizens used as disposable chattel because it was the only work they could find, the loss of the Turbines organization is basically a disaster for everyone in it. Well, the Turbines are hosed period. None of Iok's subordinates would betray him and reveal his role in the framing. Teiwaz wouldn't want to stick their nose into this no matter how valuable the Turbines is to them because of how deep the knife is. Naze going dark immediately paints him as guilty in Gjallarhorn's eyes but it does take the heat off everyone else in the Turbines. If Tekkadan gets involved, there's really nothing they can do to fix things, short of capturing Iok and somehow fishing a convincing confession from him that won't be dismissed as a product of coercion. Sure, they'll probably manage to save Naze's life but clearing his name takes a lot more than they can really do right now.
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Jan 16, 2017 02:20
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Amusingly if he was better at this whole thing, he could've done the whole thing with far less casualties on his own side by accepting the cease-fire/surrender and then going ahead anyway once Naze and Amida were captured.
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Jan 22, 2017 13:57
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Honestly, I'd enjoy it more at this point if McGillis doesn't betray Tekkadan.
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Jan 30, 2017 00:40
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Iok definitely looked pretty scared by it, but we all know that just means he's gonna double-down on something even more stupid BECAUSE HIS MEN ARE WATCHING HIM FROM HEAVEN! Iok sounded more like he wasn't sure what Rustal meant. That is, he's caught off-guard by Rustal telling him that McGillis now has a lead on him, but then doesn't get what he means about order and moderation. The fact that he thinks that destroying the Turbines means McGillis can't act freely on Mars alone shows that Iok doesn't even know what the gently caress he did. Jasley just pointed him at a target and he just declares that he's stopped McGillis' scheme on Mars. Dude think he's the good guy, exercises the power and authority of his office without a clue in the world, and then declares Mission Accomplished. He is totally going to gently caress things up for Rustal even more because he overestimated Iok's intelligence.
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Feb 1, 2017 06:32
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Guy Goodbody posted:What I like about Jasley is that at first he seemed content to just bitch about Naze and Tekkadan and try to undermine them behind the scenes. He thinks an all-woman group is a joke, he thinks the Tekkadan kids are gutter trash, and he thinks the way Old Man McMurdo treats those groups proves that he's getting soft. All of that is there from his first scene, but he's not cacklingly evil about it. He just bitches about it. Another thing that's pretty much up in the air without more info on the history of Teiwaz, but McMurdo isn't really blameless. He may very well be the guy who made Jasley his second-in-command, rather than it being an acceptable compromise in the theoretical transformation of various smaller organizations into Teiwaz. Considering that he's been depicted as a cultivator-figure, Jasley may very well be the sort of person he is because of McMurdo. Jasley being the bad apple of Teiwaz might not be a fluke, he might be McMurdo being too soft on a person he once cultivated. And now Jasley is looking to take his place, if not in public then at least in private.
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Feb 1, 2017 18:28
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I like to think that Orga told Mikazuki to position himself to take out Jasley if they received a call from him. Everything before that was just thinning the ranks in preparation to forcing him to make the call and beg for his life.
Argas fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Feb 5, 2017 |
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Feb 5, 2017 18:18
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I'm not sure the Turbines could've done much damage to Iok's fleet just due to lack of firepower, not without blowing up their own ships in the process at least. However,Iok has shown time and time again he's a bad commander. He's not completely useless because you can see he laid out a good plan to take out the Turbines, but once the battle actually started he basically kept loving things up for his own side. He spins a yarn about having to be ruthless and whatnot but his actions just resulted in more casualties and made Gjallarhorn look like a bumbling idiot with the largest gun in the room. Instead of using the cease-fire or surrender to his advantage, such as accepting Naze's surrender and then taking him hostage, Iok just wants to play at being the master of the battlefield but he's a total failure at it.
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Feb 7, 2017 21:11
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gyrobot posted:If Naze is in exile you know Tekkadan will save him. Ioks move at least deprieved Tekkadan of Teiwaz support in both forms. I assume you mean held hostage? The main value of holding him hostage initially would be to keep the Turbines from just fleeing, making them even easier prey for Iok's fleet. Or if he was going to be serious about Gjallarhorn's state goals, then they could've confiscated everything they had relatively peacefully. As is, the situation deteriorated and Gjallarhorn took more losses than necessary because Iok wanted to have his ruthless victory where Gjallarhorn took down a violent criminal organization. Either way, Naze surrendering to Gjallarhorn would've likely eliminated Amida as a threat in the process because she's just there to defend the Hammerhead and a surrender would likely involve her surrendering too. Eliminating the rest of the Turbines wasn't really necessary to dismantling the organization, which was already more or less dead because of the accusations against it. Theoretically, if Iok wasn't so motivated to spill the blood of Tekkadan's allies for the sake of his fallen subordinates, then he would've called off the pursuit MS and the dainsleif teams. Though it'd be awfully tempting for Tekkadan to go after the main fleet since non-stupid Iok wouldn't have sent MS after the ships, I think they would've maintained restraint and kept covering the Turbines. Thus, Gjallarhorn has their scapegoat without much blood spilled on either side. Furthermore, though the case against Naze is not exactly airtight, it's not completely hosed up by Gjallarhorn's own use of dainsleifs (presumably, their use in battle made it a lot easier to trace the whole thing back to Iok. One dainsleif unaccounted for could be treated as the one acquired by the Turbines. The rest being taken and with evidence of usage likely made the case against Iok). And Tekkadan is stuck in a position where just going and rescuing Naze would be just about impossible. Even should they succeed, it would completely justify the sort of ruthlessness that Iok envisioned and would also keep McGillis from aiding them even through the most covert of means since he's been careful about not giving Rustal any ammo against him. Teiwaz wouldn't move to help because their ties to Naze remain toxic. The main weakness in this theoretical scenario is that McGillis can still prove Naze is innocent. However, if Tekkadan intervenes before that happens, they're essentially hosed no matter what. Even if it comes out that Naze is innocent after he's rescued, Tekkdan still attacked Gjallarhorn and they'd be hosed. As is though, Iok's actions only served to give him a sip of revenge. Striking the Turbines was meant to get revenge against Tekkadan. The Turbines were presented as the one holding their leash. Victory against them was a stepping stone to the real meal of crushing Tekkadan. Rustal being forced to cover for his rear end prevented him from joining Jasley in battle. And before he could get another chance, he's been publicly smeared as living proof of Gjallarhorn's misdeeds.
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Feb 8, 2017 08:04
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Tae posted:No, the best ending is rustal being removed in the penultimate episode and the final episode being iok in charge of what's left of old gallyhorn as he faces down the opposition. And then while he's boasting proudly that he'll free Rustal-sama with this victory after landing a hit (not kill) on an enemy mobile suit, he gets wrecked mid-sentence.
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Feb 8, 2017 13:25
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Guy Goodbody posted:Off of earth, slavery and child soldiers are common. Pirates and criminals have free reign, and are only challenged by Gjallarhorn when there's a political reason. On Earth, powerful Gjallarhorn members visit child brothels. The entire solar system suffers from severe inequality, brutally enforced by Gjallarhorn. The only good thing Gjallarhorn does is prevent war between the major economic blocks, and they do that solely through threat of force. The entire organization is rife with incompetence and corruption. It exists solely to ensure it's own future existence. I like how the season has set up so that nobody is clearly in the right. Gjallarhorn's order might be the closest thing to right but you still have horrible poo poo going on, both on Earth and beyond. And there's no interest in changing that. Reforms won't really fix much, not unless Gjallarhorn extends its influence all the way to Jupiter and comes down harder on everything including themselves, and I think that's a bit unrealistic. We don't really know the specifics of what McGillis is aiming for but I doubt it'll solve anything. And even in the perfect scenario where McGillis hands over Mars to Tekkadan and leaves them alone, they're hardly the perfect stewards themselves. Unless they can force all the powers of Mars to bow down to them, they'll be tugged this way and that by the ones that currently run Mars and end up being forced to make ugly compromises. McGillis' childish aspirations threaten the whole ugly system, with all the good and bad that's attached to it. Rustal's more mature stance isn't really any better, given the things we saw before and just now. They keep giving Iok second chances even though he just tore apart a large shipping company in the solar system. While they've been reorganized under Teiwaz, tons of them still died for one man's grudge that is basically a result of his own childish inability to take responsibility for anything. The old Gjallarhorn tolerates that kind of thing. He's kept around only because he's still useful. Because he was born into an important family line, he gets to make amends again and again and again. Everyone outside Gjallarhorn? Fat chance, if you're not on Earth. If Rustal represents the better side of old Gjallarhorn, then Iok is the terrible side of it all.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:38
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ImpAtom posted:I think "Gaelio leads a genuine reform of Gjallerhorn" is one of the few potentially positive outcomes we can see for the setting. He and Kudelia are about the only two characters I can really see making a significant change for the better based off character arcs, position and setting. There might be a happier ending for individual characters but as far as the setting goes I think it basically amounts to them. Well, unless Gaelio takes the reins from Rustal in a way that looks like a legitimate seizure of power, I don't think reform is in the agenda.
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Feb 13, 2017 03:22
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MonsterEnvy posted:Actually he did not even aim for the cockpit in most parts just taking out the camera. Hexa frames have the cockpit in the head.
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Feb 13, 2017 06:33
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MonsterEnvy posted:Last I checked yeah it kind of is. Gjallerhorns whole thing is keeping order. So rebels are supposed to be put knocked down. Guy Goodbody posted:Where did you check? It's what's been normal in the IBO-verse. Obviously the audience can see how brutal and heavy-handed it is. The rebels resort to violence because they have no cards in play. The one time it backfired on Gjallarhorn and the economic blocs was because Tekkadan got a film crew to show it, followed by Kudelia's speech. And even then, a lot of people died. You can bet that Gjallarhorn didn't really change its mind on things at all. Under Rustal, the Arianrhod fleet might not be as proactive as it was in season 1 but they sure aren't going to let the rebels disturb the status quo in any way. Rustal seems more reasonable than McGillis right now but he's a preserver at heart. If Gjallarhorn is intact enough for reforms afterwards, it'll be because they've been forced to confront the ugly deeds. Hell, I can't see Iok getting off scot-free even if he plays a key role in putting down the coup because his actions gave a ton of legitimate justification to the coup. Rustal engineering a war was bad enough but Iok broke Gjallarhorn's own taboos. Neddy Seagoon posted:I cant help but wonder after reading this if the endgame is going to be McGillis getting more than he bargained for with Agnika themself possessing McGillis through the AV system. Maybe Bael's pristine status allowed it to retain Agnika's soul. Flauros was recovered intact but Shino shows no signs of anything weird. Barbatos missing its cockpit system probably means the soul of past pilots probably doesn't influence Barbatos and Mika much if at all. And Vidar's juryrigged system probably avoids Kimaris' past pilots from affecting things because he basically has Ein possessing him. It would be neat but it feels like a weird detail to bring up so late into the series.
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Feb 13, 2017 07:36
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Psycho Landlord posted:The best ending would be McGillis attempting to drop a rock on earth for poorly defined reasons and Iok flying out of nowhere and
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Feb 13, 2017 23:30
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So, did Almira stab with enough strength to puncture McGillis' hand or did he force his hand down on the blade for emphasis?
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Feb 19, 2017 14:53
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I personally doubt it because it looks weirdly small compared to proper dainsleif.
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Feb 26, 2017 14:30
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Try looking at it again with one of those side-shields plugged into the back, including the lance shaft as the bigass electromagnetic accelerator core (theoretically). More plausible but I'm still personally on the side of probably not, because I don't think Gaelio would approve of it. Not that it wouldn't stop Rustal from sneaking it in somehow. Also, do we know if Rustal was commanding the Arianrhod Fleet during the Dort rebellion? Because this episode basically shows that he totally could've commanded the fleet at the time. Edit: Maybe Rustal did sneak it in, knowing that Gaelio would opt not to use it...but Ein totally would.
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Feb 26, 2017 14:43
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Neddy Seagoon posted:If Gaelio gave a single poo poo about Dainsleif usage, he wouldn't be backing the guy that just used them en-masse. I don't think he'd object to their use, they need to win after all and he never objected to Rustal's underhanded strategies in the past. However, he may find it distasteful. Even when he had McGillis cornered outside Bael he still gave him the chance to board it first. I don't think he wants a fair fight per say, but he wants to personally tear apart McGillis' scheme and general philosophy. While a good shot with the dainsleif would do it, I doubt he'd get any satisfaction out of it. He'd have to break down Bael and McGillis bit by bit, rather than so fast that McGillis has no time to even taste defeat. And IMO it'd be relatively easy to get Gaelio to agree to equipping them on the Kimaris Vidar. It would not be at all difficult to suggest that McGillis may bring dainsleif to the battle and they should be ready just in case.
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Feb 26, 2017 14:57
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So, why did that one dainsleif shot by Rustal's agent have a ton of secondary detonations like a stereotypical beam weapon, but Shino's shot just barely misses Rustal's ship and has absolutely no effect?  Luminaflare posted:Honestly surprises me we haven't seen any mounted to a battleship yet. I'd think you could get much better accuracy that way. Well, it seems Gjallarhorn actually abandoned dainsleif tech since the Calamity War, or dainsleif are considered too specialized to switch out a ship's armament for it. Way easier to just be able to equip some mobile suits with it than to have to take a ship into dock for it.
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Feb 27, 2017 13:07
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Lemon-Lime posted:Rule of cool, I'm pretty sure. Most likely, it's just irksome to see this sort of inconsistency in the same drat episode as a major plot point as opposed to a random background detail.
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Feb 27, 2017 13:10
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