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Mashiro - Top Yuuri - High Salyu - High Natsuhiko - High We've gotten to know Salyu a bit better, and she seems to just be borderline autistic and possibly raised in a very weird way, but not actively an untrustworthy person. Rather, having the inexplicable super waif-fu abilities, she seems like someone worth trusting. Still, since Natsuhiko hasn't known her long, it wouldn't make sense for him to 100% trust her. Also, Yuuri's been acting hella weird. That alone would logically make Natsuhiko a bit wary, even given how long he's known her. but, Mashiro is the best. there is absolutely no reason to ever not 100% trust Mashiro.  and bad things tend to happen when the main character's level is set at Top, so obviously we can't do that.
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Jan 21, 2017 20:11
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OddHaberdasher posted:Top Salyu, she took a bullet for us imma second this.
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Jan 29, 2017 07:40
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okay, so Salyu is basically autistic. That makes a lot of things make sense. I really liked how Natsuhiko talked to her after she admitted her deficits. I wish somebody had given me that speech when I was a teenager. 
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Feb 1, 2017 05:09
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lol wow Natsuhiko & co have made some hilariously bad decisions. I mean, it makes sense. They're kids with more good intentions than sense. but still, I don't see the actual evidence of a dark conspiracy as much as that they're naive kids that don't realize that they're in a comfortable concentration camp.
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Feb 5, 2017 20:36
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Glazius posted:A goddamn panopticon, yeah. And yet, somehow, this disaster still happens. It makes you wonder if it was planned. I've considered that, but I think the better answer is that all the security in the city is meant to watch and keep the Communicators in, not keep terrorists out. So it's ill equipped to deal with a couple of clever maniacs infiltrating the city. I also think the authorities are lying pretty aggressively to the residents about how much the world actually tolerates Communicators (that is to say, it's less like people are wary, and more like the way US conservatives feel right now about Muslims). Whatever's going on in the so-called reactor probably relates to the Japanese government's true intent in protecting Communicators - using them as weapons. this half of the story seems to do a good job at establishing how little Natsuhiko and Mashiro know about the place they live and the situation they're in, until poo poo suddenly starts to get real.
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Feb 6, 2017 01:43
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Yeah, Natsuhiko's mother is just straight up an rear end in a top hat, and he's entirely in the right here. Almost nothing can really justify her basically adopting another kid, and then not having any time at all for either her bio kid or the adoptee. I say almost because I expect some crazy nonsense from this VN will try valiantly to justify it. but really, emotionally healthy parents that have demanding jobs and care about their children make a drat effort to see them as much as possible, and when they see them, they try to show that they care. Her whole thinking "oh my god he hates me" is kinda telling, too. It's self-pity, not an actually productive reaction that processes and responds to anything he said. If all she gets out of that is "he must hate me", she's too wrapped up in her own poo poo to treat her son with the respect he deserves. Also, his mother isn't telling him something she probably should have told him, it seems obvious to say. Because she might love her son, but she doesn't really know him or respect him.
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Feb 9, 2017 03:59
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Well, everything's coming together now. The situation's about what I thought it was, and the real revelation is how Q works, which sort of reminds me of concepts explored in the Ghost in the Shell anime. Also, if we're being honest, this is EXACTLY how people would react in the real world if it were revealed that there were people with psychic powers among us. don't even try to claim otherwise. That conversation with Ena is for me one of the high points of this so far.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:14
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Is there any point at which Yuuri did something a ghost should not be able to do? Like, for example, did she eat at any point?
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Feb 12, 2017 00:17
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So, uh, Natsuhiko has just been under a persistent delusion that Yuuri is alive and living at his house, and everyone close to him has enabled that delusion? that makes SOME sense by the internal logic of this story. I guess after Natsuhiko's poor reaction to his mom telling him Yuuri died, she decided to let him believe what he wanted, and possibly also asked Mashiro to do the same. And then after meeting Salyu, at some point Mashiro must've asked Salyu to play along whenever Natsuhiko mentioned Yuuri.
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Feb 13, 2017 00:52
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SSNeoman posted:...you guys realize how utterly monstrous mashiro is in this context yes? well, I mean, there is the enormous social stigma attached to mental illness in Japanese culture. So while none of this makes psychological sense to us, and comes across as tremendously lovely, we're seeing it in a different cultural context. though, the conclusion in that case is that Japanese culture is emotionally unhealthy, an idea we've been talking about here for a while in the context of Natsuhiko's mother.
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Feb 14, 2017 02:37
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GeneralYeti posted:I mean, it's still a really lovely thing to do, but at least Mashiro has a reason for playing along with Natsuhiko's delusions. There's not much else you can do when he goes into a panic attack any time he gets close to the truth. Uh, yeah, I feel more like this is his mother's fuckup. Natsuhiko absolutely should not have been released from the hospital in his condition. Mashiro should never have been put in the position of having to play along with Natsuhiko's delusions. but, of course, it's Japan. it would be SHAMEFUL to put one's son in long-term mental health treatment. jesus, at the very least some antipsychotic drugs? Man, I am just getting so angry at this bit of the game.
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Feb 16, 2017 06:07
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like/trust rating: 0 - Ukita - He's obviously up to his eyeballs in the terrorism craziness, and what's worse is he was willing to have the son of a longtime coworker murdered, and yet didn't have the guts to do it himself. We don't know his motive, but I bet it makes less sense than Watase's, which seems to be revenge fueled by grief. Also there were those bad ends where he killed a bunch of people. 1 - Yuuri - I don't like either Before or After Yuuri. It's a character type that never really clicks with me in general, and also Before Yuuri is a result of Natsuhiko's crazy. And After Yuuri clearly knows things that could've saved the group a lot of trouble, but refuses to tell anyone because she can't bring herself to trust them. and when someone can't trust, you can't trust 'em back. 2 - Natsuhiko - He's just not as compelling a protagonist as Amnesia Watase, and his deliberately bubbling himself off is a big turn-off in a way it's hard to describe until he's called out on it, over, and over, and over again. And the shock reveal is kinda ludicrous, and also makes it clear that Natsuhiko is not reliable. 3 - Ena - The one character that most suffered from doing After before Before, because you spend almost all of After until Ena sticks up for Watase suspecting her of being up to something. It's not like she's completely on the level in Before, but her care for the kids comes through, and it makes sense now why she ended up at LABO. It's also clear, though, that she hid something from the kids that probably would've saved them a lot of grief (in that last encounter, there was something she held back from saying). 4 - Watase - The exact midpoint! Amnesia Watase is a good egg who tries to do the right thing, and accomplishes a lot despite remembering gently caress all about rescue stuff. Non-Amnesia Watase is a fanatic monster who doesn't care who he hurts in order to enact revenge, and would probably say ANYTHING to further his goal. also I don't really like Before Watase because I'm not a big fan of delusional maniacs as villains. I wished for someone who articulated a clearer hatred of Communicators beyond a petty personal vendetta, and instead it's PERSON I CARE ABOUT DIED YOU ARE ALL MONSTERS KILLING YOU DOESN'T COUNT AS MURDER KILL KILL KILL. I guess it's impressive that he managed to hide being unhinged from his coworkers. It would be better for everyone if Watase never regained his memories, and the new Amnesia Watase lived in his place. 5 - Mashiro - Okay. She made a really bad call enabling Natsuhiko's delusions so long. Her judgment sucks. But her heart is unmistakably in the right place, and she's one of the most consistently entertaining characters. I would place her at 9 if not for the Yuuri scenario, but balancing the "trust" aspect of this ranking means she goes down here. probably should rank her lower, but I'm more empathetic. 6 - Kazami - Hypercompetent, smart, and actually believes in doing her job, unlike her shitheel psycho ex-boyfriend boss. But I just don't find her as entertaining a character as the two above her. 7 - Salyu - After gives a really weird impression of her, and when she is first introduced in Before, she seems very remote and hard to like. But the later characterization is probably the most effective characterization this game has done. The backstory's clearly trying to chalk it up to her upbringing, but I like reading it as if Salyu is autistic. It makes all of her behaviors make so much more sense. Especially the "kicking people's asses without stopping to ask questions" thing. Also learning Watase was the terrorist makes her seem a GODDAMNED HERO who did nothing wrong. Salyu is our little autistic warrior.  8 - Jun - Of all the characters, the one with the clearest moral compass and the most devotion to DOING THE RIGHT THING. well, except when she goes homicidal, but I don't blame her for that. What little we see of her in Before reinforces the very positive impression I have of her. this is all unfairly judgmental (except for Mashiro who I'm probably not hard enough on). but it is my feels.
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Feb 25, 2017 03:37
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holy poo poo, Natsuhiko is pulling some crazy poo poo with Watase's mind. It's the first time his character is really interesting, though, so I'm not complaining. and if anyone deserves this, it's a psycho terrorist intent on murdering a bunch of people because they can't deal with their own grief. This also effectively explains disappearing dead Yuuri in a satisfying way.
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Mar 4, 2017 19:48
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LABO just keeps getting more sinister. and now the imaginary Yuuri makes waaaaay more sense. It doesn't absolve Dr. Tenkawa of responsibility, and it puts a lot of responsibility on Yuuri herself. I think the writing is both saying that the two of them did a pretty awful thing, but they were in an awful situation with no good alternatives. Natsuhiko still had a right to yell at his mother, given the information he had available. Every layer that gets peeled back also reveals how completely oblivious Natsuhiko was to virtually everything about his life. He didn't really know his mother, his best friend, his school, the city he lived in, or his own abilities. His life was lies and delusions. Q is definitely not entirely wrong, especially given what we now know about the 3rd ability. I don't know if I'd feel very safe knowing that that was even a possibility. I would try to be empathetic, but that is beyond terrifying. If Q has reason to believe this is a thing, and is deliberately targeting sites researching it, their actions make a lot more sense. Still horrible, but less maniacal. Watase may not be an accurate representation?
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Mar 20, 2017 05:27
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Watase Favoring Natsuhiko is an obvious bad end, and I want to get through the plot, before seeing the bad endings. also, Natsuhiko's being dumb, understandably, but still dumb. Watase is probably not going to do anything to hurt Yuuri (the malice is gone, and he needs Yuuri for the mission), and this will expose LABO's blatant evil.
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Apr 8, 2017 19:16
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Ukita, because favoring Natsuhiko always seems like the wrong decision now. dude has terrible judgment and is lucky to have two not-idiots telling him what to do. also, I have to agree that the game sort of lost the plot for a while in Route Before. I guess it doesn't bother people as much who are used to Japanese slice of life stuff and exceptionally long-winded pseudoscience lectures that could be a quarter of the length and be far more understandable. When poo poo starts getting real, it gets interesting again, but it doesn't really pick up until Salyu knocks out the security guard.
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Apr 12, 2017 00:59
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well, okay, Ukita seems a lot more reasonable now, and Dr. Tenkawa, good intentions or not, seems even shittier as a person. sure, she had ~reasons~. She thought she was doing the right thing, and protecting her son. But her idea of how to do right by humanity and her son is horrific. The work done by LABO could not be ethically justified even to save the entirety of humanity, in my opinion. What LABO has done is a clear cross over the moral event horizon, and Dr. Tenkawa's rode right on over it with a string of self-serving rationalizations. Maybe to the writers of the game and other people here, her good intentions matter. But they shouldn't.
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Apr 15, 2017 03:11
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Well, that makes Ena being deeply unhelpful despite her claims that she's looking out for the kids make sense. She isn't looking out for the kids. They're a security threat. like, uh, I think the initial negative impressions of her were on the money after all.
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Apr 21, 2017 02:04
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Arkanumzilong posted:Miyoko did everything wrong yeah, jesus loving christ. Even if they're like, "we'll N-ify Natsuhiko if you don't cooperate", assuming LABO is doing that, which is likely, doesn't justify her actions. If LABO's actions are exposed, she should be serving a life sentence in prison, or even be tried for crimes against humanity. but that probably won't happen, because the game will be like "she did it for love, so it's okay!". Japanese stories can be weirdly forgiving towards monstrous actions if they were done for LOVE.
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May 7, 2017 18:00
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Junpei posted:Okay, guys, Miyoko certainly isn't GOOD, not by any stretch of the imagination, but her superiors/bosses certainly have to be worse than her, at least. the concentration camp guards weren't as bad as the concentration camp commander, either.
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May 9, 2017 02:08
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Q and LABO are both awful. Miyoko, Ukita, and Watase had good intentions, but they had to know that what they were doing was deeply wrong. but I think that Miyoko was operating with significantly more information, and in my mind that makes her decisions worse. and the harping on it is obviously because the game is trying its damnedest to spin her actions in a positive light.
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May 12, 2017 01:12
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Junpei posted:Headcanon: Louise is autistic. Probably Asperger's Syndrome. that has always been my headcanon. the game SAYS that she lost the ability due to the memories, but first of all, if she interacted with very few people other than LABO people, she might not have had much opportunity to develop the ability to read people's expressions and anticipate their reactions. Also that the memory-dump explanation makes zero sense to me, for causing massive loss to empathic ability.
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May 12, 2017 23:08
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uh yeah, aside from the ethical issue, I can't even with Miyoko abdicating her responsibility as a parent. at least she knows she absolutely should be in prison for what she's done. As should most of LABO, pretty much.
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May 14, 2017 06:30
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uh, Miyoko was trying to create a "spirit" with BC particles? what the gently caress? that's the sort of poo poo that in any sane reality you would need to get very, very high up government approval to do, and you probably wouldn't get it. Which is just as well, because it's an experiment that is either stupid (if it can't work) or monstrous (if it can), and at any rate should not be conducted.
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May 14, 2017 23:58
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