NGDBSS posted:

Looking back it's darkly comic that Natsuhiko claimed before that they weren't living in a prison. Kid, you're not just in a prison, but also a panopticon.

TheMcD posted:

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, and I feel like I should know. I guess you can't send me a PM... hm, suppose it'd be easiest to do it by mail. Shoot me a mail at 'themcd *at* vpforums *dot* org' and tell me what you mean, because I probably have not heard of the existence of whatever you're referring to. Either that, or I have, but am oblivious to it. Either way, hit me up.

TheMcD posted:

Hm, seems I didn't get it. As in, "didn't get the e-mail", not "didn't understand it". Are you on Steam, per chance? If so, you could add me at Steam ID "themcd" (I should be easy to spot, given that I have the same avatar there). Maybe that would work.

I'm starting to get an idea what you might be referring to, but getting confirmation would be better.

Spatula City posted:

So, uh, Natsuhiko has just been under a persistent delusion that Yuuri is alive and living at his house, and everyone close to him has enabled that delusion? that makes SOME sense by the internal logic of this story. I guess after Natsuhiko's poor reaction to his mom telling him Yuuri died, she decided to let him believe what he wanted, and possibly also asked Mashiro to do the same. And then after meeting Salyu, at some point Mashiro must've asked Salyu to play along whenever Natsuhiko mentioned Yuuri.

GeneralYeti posted:

I mean, it's still a really lovely thing to do, but at least Mashiro has a reason for playing along with Natsuhiko's delusions. There's not much else you can do when he goes into a panic attack any time he gets close to the truth.

TheMcD posted:

Memories are ambiguous?
Yeah. According to the protagonist himself... 'People tend to rewrite their own memories unconsciously. And so even this story itself is not necessarily the truth.' Isn't it interesting for a romance novel to begin like that?
Yeah, though it sounds a tad perplexing.
But you know, as you continue the story, you learn that it really is like that. Memories are never reliable. You could end up recalling something completely different depending on your current situation and mental state.

Spatula City posted:

Uh, yeah, I feel more like this is his mother's fuckup. Natsuhiko absolutely should not have been released from the hospital in his condition. Mashiro should never have been put in the position of having to play along with Natsuhiko's delusions. but, of course, it's Japan. it would be SHAMEFUL to put one's son in long-term mental health treatment. jesus, at the very least some antipsychotic drugs? Man, I am just getting so angry at this bit of the game.

TheMcD posted:

The more serious matter at hand was his panic disorder. One wrong move and Natsuhiko would come close to noticing Yuuri's death-- Causing him to display symptoms including intense headaches and heart palpitations. In extreme cases, his memories would go into disarray and he'd begin to ignore reality. Aside from hospital staff, only Mashiro and Dr. Tenkawa knew about his condition.

(... If only he could gradually improve...)

The most effective treatment for this kind of condition was said to be ''family therapy''-- that is, for the family to treat the patient with devoted support for their condition.

OddHaberdasher posted:

Now I'm morbidly curious as to what life was like before she developed her empathy through sheer force of will. We see the A of Nat after the fire, we see the C of Natsuhiko now, but what about the B? For some reason, every time I try to think of that I start hearing a sitcom laugh track.

SSNeoman posted:

No I don't buy it. I can't believe that the best a town full of psychic researchers can do is Family Therapy for 9 goddamn years.

OddHaberdasher posted:

Is there more after the credits, like with After and the moment where Watase found a blockage in the pipes? Because otherwise this was rather disappointing.

CirclMastr posted:

1. What's the deal with Yuuri? (Amazingly, it turned out that BOTH "ghost" and "two Yuuris" were correct, and yet neither explains the Yuuri from Watase's route.)
2. What's the deal with Ukita? (He was - to some people anyway, myself included - a sketchy character. Unless Natsuhiko's route not revealing anything is meant to signify that there's nothing to reveal, but that's a bit of a leap.)
3. What were the kids doing in LABO? (Not why were they there, but what did they DO. Basically the amalgam of little questions like how Salyu survived diving into fire, what the message on the chalkboard was about, what happened to the AD, etc.)
4. Who set the bombs? (I guess partial credit for answering the timing of the bombs being set, sort of, but it wasn't any of Watase's Terror Team.)

And probably others I just have forgotten because I haven't gone back and re-read Watase's route.

TheMcD posted:

Yeah, I was almost going to make an oblique hint along the lines of "you should be able to solve this" regarding two things:

1) The person Watase is talking about (while we don't actually know the person, we've seen them before).
2) The event Watase is talking about.

You can work these two out if you can put the right 2 and 2 together.

TheMcD posted:

So, remember that message back in the chapter Message in Route After? ''From the tear rain to Altair and the bridge of bird wings''. So from Salyu to Natsuhiko and Mashiro. And the question asked was ''Was Sirius able to escape from his cage on that night of the full moon?''. This seems to be referring back to the Sirius Escape Plan, when young Natsuhiko and Mashiro hatched a plan to save their dog, Sirius, from being put down. Sirius was able to escape from his cage, but I'm still not sure what I'm supposed to make of that answer, because it seems to be supposed to be some sort of code that I'm still not figuring out.

Haifisch posted:

Looking back, I'm glad we got After before Before. I can't imagine it having the same "what the gently caress is going on here?" vibe when you already know the deal with BC/the terrorists/the kids.

Junpei posted:

So Current is "Route After with running commentary by Natsuhiko Tenkawa"?

Danaru posted:

They also called it Area N, Case N, and NBC. LABO doesn't give a poo poo about naming anything creatively.

OddHaberdasher posted:

Nah, I'm just mildly peeved I didn't wait for something like this. I fully intend to play (if only to hear the voices), I just don't want to risk getting ahead of the thread, I rather like speculation.

TheMcD posted:

A blue branch with Yuuri at 5.

He rushed inside, wary of the security department and surveillance cameras. He picked up the receiver and dialed his home phone number. The dial tone rang. However-- Yuuri did not answer.

(...? Is she in her room?)

The only phone at home was in the living room, so if she were in her room, it was understandable that she might not be able to hear the phone ringing. But Natsuhiko waited patiently and eventually the phone connected.

SSNeoman posted:

Eh let's not be too hard on the kid. He spent the last 9 years being lied too by his best friend

Mraagvpeine posted:

I wonder who will act the dumbest and cause the most deaths: Watase or Natsuhiko?

OddHaberdasher posted:

Just gonna correct you here and say that that can't be Nagisa (which we've concluded to be Elevator Girl) because the shadow's hairstyle (short cut) does not match Nagisa's, but does match Restrained Girl. Still not confirmed what's going on with Elevator Girl, probably is dead (which would make me sad actually).

Now, onto video analysis (also, who's narrating this video?):
Okay, so we still have that odd "Awaken" voice, maybe that's Elevator Girl? or Mashiro?

ArashiKurobara posted:

It's Kazami narrating. (At least, I'm fairly certain.)

TheOneAndOnlyT posted:

EDIT: Did we ever see any character besides Watase experience any kind of harmful effect from the "radiation"?

Danaru posted:

They mentioned the radiation was those WX Particles, which are what they dump onto BC users to turn them into Type S IGF2R gene whatevers. I want to say Natsuhiko said he turned Type S after the Case N nine years ago but I can't find the specific passage, either way it can't be that bad for him

Also now that I say that, I just remembered they suspected Mashiro would turn Type S under radiation.

TheMcD posted:

NRVNQSR posted:

They're Vega and Altair from the Tanabata story Salyu talks about.

AlphaKretin posted:

I get the impression that Natsuhiko is also hallucinating her independently, but Yuuri inspired it and cleans up inconsistencies for him.

TheMcD posted:

However, the purpose of these reunions wasn't only so she could see his face. He was brought here once a year to renew the ''memory of the Yuuri'' that was inside him. The phantom Yuuri created by his brain was, after all, a phantom and nothing more. If no action were taken, the phantom Yuuri would gradually become disparate from the real Yuuri. This was, in essence, maintenance to adjust for changes and disparities-- Such was the truth of Natsuhiko's ''yearly checkups''.

Junpei posted:

Wait, so all of Route Before's SSS choices were Yuuri influencing Natsuhiko's mind?

Danaru posted:

I hate the direction this is going

Also blonde test subject looks a lot more like an adult without the lovely memory static. Also she's wearing what Yuuri called test subject clothes. Given the time period and anime genetics she must be Salyu's mom, but she's also going to end up being Subject A isn't she Wataru also mentions that it was a French scientist that figured out the IGF2R thing, and that the BC particle discovery happened in Rokumei City, where blonde test subject is now. It also explains why they kept Salyu as a test subject despite not mutating or having a hereditary type S gene. The story about Salyu's family was clearly memory-kajiggery, but it could be based in fact.

Also that's still one flashback unaccounted for, the one of Nagisa (or whoever but I'm sure it's Nagisa) being a weirdo, but that doesn't fit this time period. There's probably more back to flash after this though I imagine. I'm sorta glad I didn't go with the theory that Watase used to be a scientist, considering he's sorta a dumbass I didn't think the test subject memory would just be that she was looking out a window he was near

BenRGamer posted:

Go with Watase.

Gotta wonder, though. If Subject N's been running around infecting everyone, why leave Yuuri/Natsuhiko/Mashiro alone?

Glazius posted:

Okay, so does Natsuhiko actually remember being menaced by Watase, or is that another fake memory? It seems real. Which means that maybe Subject N has been sneaking out through Ukita for a while now.