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 Secret of Mana? Secret of Mana is a Squaresoft game released in 1993 after its original development had to be halted because the system it was intended to be for- the Nintendo Playstation- was cancelled. Specifically, it was one half of a game that was to be developed as a release title for the machine. One half became this game, and the the other half became Crono Trigger, which might explain a lot of superficially similar elements, like the looks of the main characters, same screen battles, and the like. The game is also the second in the Seiken Densetsu or Mana series of adventure games, the first being released for Gameboy, and known as Final Fantasy Adventure in the states. It's a gorgeous game with a pretty good plot, somewhat hampered by hardware limitations meaning the translation was seriously reduced in content and detail. Such was the way of things in the early 90s. The basic premise is that you're a young boy who finds a sword, gets thrown in on an adventure, and has to save the world. It's more complicated, but no need to get into that just yet. This Commercial is a pretty good example of the 90s too As a Cooperative Action RPG, it's a great game to make a friend stumble around quasi-blind in. So that's what I'm doing. Quasi-Blind? Co-Op So, one of the niftiest things about this game is that it supports up to three player simultaneous play. I'm playing the game with my good friend QB, who never got to play it growing up, and we are keeping her blind on most plot details until they come up. She's not looking anything up, and I'm not telling her anything if I can help it. I have played the game the whole way through a few times, but my last full playthrough was around a decade ago, and I'm not checking guides for directions, enemy stats, or anything. I'm going purely on memory. Sort of the one eyed man leading the blind. This is also going to be the first playthrough that I've done co-op start to finish. That might make it easier, or harder. We'll see. So what are we in for? QB and I are playing the game together, and recording our commentary as we play. I'm going to split our recordings up as naturally as I can into digestible videos for your enjoyment. We might get a third person in later to play, but that's up in the air. For this first three episodes, our Microphone Audio occasionally gets overwhelmed by in game audio, which I could not change due to a screwup in the recording phase. In a few others, our records suffer from unusual errors, like recording zero system audio, or the introduction of random distortion into our audio channels that has no apparent cause. Please bear with us as best you can. Spoilers I know the plot, and QB doesn't check SA, but please put spoilers behind tags in case I decide to show her the thread. You can also freely discuss the rest of the series without tags, just leave upcoming plot/ boss details in the tags for now. Schedule We're going through the game at a fairly brisk pace- we're through Undine's trial as of this post- and I'll try and post updates twice a week. That might go up or down depending on job schedules. Important Characters  The Boy, AKA Randi- This dude is the main character, he fights with a sword to start. As main character, he just gets weapons. That's it. But his physical stats make him a tank and he gets weapon experience super quickly. His reasons for adventuring are "A sword/ Old Man/ Luka told me to" AKA: I got kicked out of town and have nothing better to do. QB is going to be manning him for the game unless circumstances arise such that the boy isn't available in combat, due to being dead or what not.  The Girl, AKA: Primm. Or Purim. Either/ Or- A noble of Pandora, her motivation for joining the quest is essentially "My boyfriend needs help." I'm not boiling this down. He stated goal is to give needed assistance to Dyluck, who we have met with a group of men attempting to lead an assault on the forest witch's manor. Her starting weapon is the Brass Knuckle, and she's actually the well rounded character stats wise, doing alright in both physical and magical fights, though she doesn't have much in the way of attack magic, being as she's the healer/ support bot. She does get a couple of really good attack spells later, though, and her healing and support NEVER stop being useful after you get them. I'm going to be the one in control of her throughout the game.  The Sprite, AKA: Popoi- this young forest child- referred to as a he several points in the dub, but of deliberately vague gender in the original- is the game's Black mage. Possessing almost all of the game's offensive magic and the magical stats to back it up, the sprite unfortunately has the physical stats to reflect that role as well, and so it will fall over in a stiff breeze if you don't keep it well away from the fight and an eye on its HP. It can trivialize boss fights if you have the MP and let it go wild. The Sprite, when you meet it, has lost its memory after being literally washed from its former home during a flood, and is acting as a con-man with the dwarf elder in their village. After you catch the duo talking about their scheme, the sprite joins your party in the hopes of regaining its lost memories and finding its way home. Our Sprite is named after someone who may or may not be joining us in future recordings.  , Alternately,  or .png) Watts- AKA: Your best drat friend- Watts here isn't a playable character, but he is a Densetsu series staple, the equivalent of Cid, as it were. He's always a blacksmith, and you usually need his help in some way to proceed. In Secret of Mana, that comes in the form of the Rock breaker Axe that lets you progress through the forest, but Watt's real purpose is to be your one stop shop for all things weapons, letting you upgrade the weapons on your ring with the Orbs taken from felled bosses, not only making them stronger, but allowing you to level them up further and charge them with extra power. He's also pretty chill about pretty much everything. Watts is a pretty cool dude.  or  This is Flammie, last of the white dragons. He's related to the purplish dragons flying around the seasons forest, but he's a slightly different breed. He's also a baby, despite being the same size as them, and not yet ready to fly. He is adorable and he's being raised by King Truffles. That is all. Weapon and Magic Overviews- Magic Overview #1- Covers the first three magic types. Magic Overview #2- Introducing the fire Spirit Salamand Secret of Mana Weapons Roster Part 1- All the poo poo we have so far! All the weapon orbs we've collected up through episode 30. Secret of Mana Weapons Roster Part 2- Part 2- Fire Palace Acquisitions Secret of Mana Weapons Roster Part 3- NorthTown Ruins Exterior I'll add more here as episodes go on. Playlist Episode 00- The Opening Episode 01- None of the Work, All of the Credit Episode 02- Such a Pretty Name for a Girl Episode 03- Does no one want me? Episode 04- Punch McMans! Episode 05- Low Rent Strongbad Episode 06 - When was our last save point, again? Episode 07- More Issues than X-men Episode 08- "Run, Run!" "I'm Trying!" Episode 09- Watts has a Sweet rear end Episode 10- Puns Sans Frontières Episode 11- The Dark Souls of Super Nintendo Episode 12- Abandon all skill, Ye who enter here! Episode 13- Moonwalkin' for the Win. Episode 14- Okay, Sailor Moon Guy Episode 15- Die, Tomato Man! Episode 16- Remember when we were talking about your Fursona? Episode 17- Three fire emojis out of Five Episode 18- A Fishy! Kill it... Episode 19- Why can't I equip Trash Can? Episode 20- I'm going in a circle, you rear end in a top hat! Episode 21- Happy Friendly Mushroom Land Episode 22- It has a Scenic Vista Episode 23- Are we about to get wrecked by another loving boss? Episode 24- I'mma grind offscreen Episode 25- Throw the Icebox into the Trash Episode 26- How does a Dog know Magic? Episode 27- 'Die Monster!' 'You don't belong in this world...' Episode 28- Trajectories aren't SCIENCE, Tim! Episode 29- I like Fiery Death more, but Okay Episode 30- Mana Seeds Ruin Christmas Episode 31- That Wood Paneling is so Sexy Episode 32- His Soul was Actually Suplexed out of his Body Episode 33- The Snowman Killed Secret of Mana Episode 34 - I'm here to Beat Things up Episode 35 - Take the Old Lady as a Human Shield! Episode 36- Why is it Suddenly Cloudy in Here Episode 37- It Seems that my Spinal Cord has been Severed Ryushikaze fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2016 14:45
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Really nice game... I've been tempted to play it again recently. Think I still have the old save file I hadn't completed...
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Oct 5, 2016 16:51
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Peddle2thaMetal posted:Really nice game... I've been tempted to play it again recently. Think I still have the old save file I hadn't completed... Well, play it, then! Meanwhile, in today's episode, exploration, exposition, and a new character appears! Episode 02- Such a Pretty Name for a Girl
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Oct 6, 2016 19:25
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In today's thrilling episode, Our hero gets a travelling companion, and comes face to face with some serious angst. Episode 03- Does no one want me? Ryushikaze fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Oct 11, 2016 |
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Oct 11, 2016 02:57
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I'll give this a look - seems interesting.
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Oct 11, 2016 23:29
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Maybe I'll get through this game finally vicariously through you. I never got into the game. Tried 2 or 3 times, but just... nothing grabbed me.
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Oct 11, 2016 23:36
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There was a gameplay hack in the works, but it kind of collapsed. Shame, it looked good.
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Oct 11, 2016 23:59
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As I understand it, this game suffers quite a bit from the usual SNES-era Squaresoft translation limitations - a lot of the dialogue had to be reduced to fit the space in the text boxes, so significant character development and plot points don't really come across that well. Even in the original Japanese, the game was a shadow of its original plan, since it was supposed to be released on the SNES CD add-on that eventually became the Playstation. When that deal fell through, they had to cram what they could into a much smaller SNES cartridge, cutting most of the second half of the game. It should be pretty obvious when we get to that point. I'd love to see a full Playstation remake that restores the cut content, but I doubt it would ever happen. It's hard enough to convince Square-Enix to port games to PC without huge amounts of rework.
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Oct 12, 2016 01:32
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Oh, yeah! This is one of my favorite SNES games. It doesn't help that I'm a kind of completionist and have only managed to finish it once in my life. But I just love the overall design of the world, and the music! It's in my top 3 SNES soundtracks, along with Chrono Trigger and FFVI.
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Oct 12, 2016 04:11
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I marathoned this entire game once.
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Oct 12, 2016 04:29
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FeyerbrandX posted:Maybe I'll get through this game finally vicariously through you. Same. I tried the game a bunch of times and never got too far. Meanwhile I've finished Seiken Densetsu 3 a whole bunch of times, more than just to fight all the possible end bosses.
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Oct 12, 2016 16:09
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Hey, I got replies all of a sudden!FeyerbrandX posted:Maybe I'll get through this game finally vicariously through you. Well, I'm going to make sure we get through the game, come hell, high water, lots of embarassing party wipes, and excessive moogling. Tallgeese posted:There was a gameplay hack in the works, but it kind of collapsed. Shame, it looked good. Was it anything like the Evermore gameplay hack? I plan on introducing QB to that game next, and plan on using the Weapon XP patch to make her life simpler. Nidoking posted:As I understand it, this game suffers quite a bit from the usual SNES-era Squaresoft translation limitations - a lot of the dialogue had to be reduced to fit the space in the text boxes, so significant character development and plot points don't really come across that well. Even in the original Japanese, the game was a shadow of its original plan, since it was supposed to be released on the SNES CD add-on that eventually became the Playstation. When that deal fell through, they had to cram what they could into a much smaller SNES cartridge, cutting most of the second half of the game. It should be pretty obvious when we get to that point. I'd love to see a full Playstation remake that restores the cut content, but I doubt it would ever happen. It's hard enough to convince Square-Enix to port games to PC without huge amounts of rework. It's not so much it all got cut as liberally slimmed down. We get snippets of what that could have been, and Chrono Trigger I think helps flesh a lot of the broad strokes out as well, given their shared development originally. Kal-L posted:Oh, yeah! This is one of my favorite SNES games. It doesn't help that I'm a kind of completionist and have only managed to finish it once in my life. Before I gave my SNES to my cousin as I went off to College, I had a save where I held onto at least one of every item, and would try and do dumb things like fight end game bosses in the shirt and wristband from the first village. Zanzibar Ham posted:Same. I tried the game a bunch of times and never got too far. Meanwhile I've finished Seiken Densetsu 3 a whole bunch of times, more than just to fight all the possible end bosses. I love Seiken 3, but it feels strange to play it initially after playing this. Did you play Seiken 3 first?
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Oct 12, 2016 21:34
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Ryushikaze posted:I love Seiken 3, but it feels strange to play it initially after playing this. Did you play Seiken 3 first? I agree completely! I played Secret of Mana first, and SD3 was wonky to me when I started on it (ex: buying better weapons instead of upgrading them kinda irked me). There were good and bad changes really.
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Oct 12, 2016 21:40
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Ryushikaze posted:Was it anything like the Evermore gameplay hack? I plan on introducing QB to that game next, and plan on using the Weapon XP patch to make her life simpler. It had things like magic hotkeys, and I think it did something to fix the grind a bit yeah. Buggy as hell though, so cannot recommend it.
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Oct 12, 2016 22:18
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So, I forgot to do this last time, but here's another character introduction! The Girl, AKA: Primm. Or Purim. Either/ Or- A noble of Pandora, her motivation for joining the quest is essentially "My boyfriend needs help." I'm not boiling this down. He stated goal is to give needed assistance to Dyluck, who we have met with a group of men attempting to lead an assault on the forest witch's manor. Her starting weapon is the Brass Knuckle, and she's actually the well rounded character stats wise, doing alright in both physical and magical fights, though she doesn't have much in the way of attack magic, being as she's the healer/ support bot. She does get a couple of really good attack spells later, though, and her healing and support NEVER stop being useful after you get them. It's worth noting that you can recruit her in one of three different ways. Either the way she was recruited in this LP, by heading straight to the witch's forest and rescuing her from some monsters, or by skipping the event where she rescues you, heading straight to pandora, having her run away past you, and then meeting her in her house. It's not much of a difference, but it is there. Also! Today's episode! Episode 04- Punch McMans! When recording this and the next two episodes, I accidentally clicked a slider WAY too low, so there is almost no goddamn system audio for these three episodes. That will be fixed from episode 7 onwards. Zanzibar Ham posted:I agree completely! I played Secret of Mana first, and SD3 was wonky to me when I started on it (ex: buying better weapons instead of upgrading them kinda irked me). There were good and bad changes really. That aspect didn't bother me too much. More it was the three pip system for waiting to attack that did my head in. Attacks also felt a little more arbitrary in whether or not they hit. In SOM, if you see your weapon hit, it's a hit, for however effective it is. Seiken 3 seemed to have a much tighter hitbox for attacks, which I think worked for and against the player. Tallgeese posted:It had things like magic hotkeys, and I think it did something to fix the grind a bit yeah. Buggy as hell though, so cannot recommend it. I'm not too worried about the grind in SOM. Worst case scenario, we do a bit off camera to get where we need. We've even done a little grinding already. Ryushikaze fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Oct 13, 2016 |
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Oct 13, 2016 17:05
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Ryushikaze posted:That aspect didn't bother me too much. More it was the three pip system for waiting to attack that did my head in. Attacks also felt a little more arbitrary in whether or not they hit. In SOM, if you see your weapon hit, it's a hit, for however effective it is. Seiken 3 seemed to have a much tighter hitbox for attacks, which I think worked for and against the player. I actually preferred that more than letting players wail on enemies uselessly with below 100% strength weapon swings. Though I suppose that had its uses in multiplayer maybe? Another great thing about SD3 was that you didn't need to charge manually with a button for super attacks, instead it charged as you hit enemies. Much better than how you two try to charge attacks but get interrupted all the time. And I don't think things had tighter hit boxes, it's just things had an evade stat (like your character), so could dodge hits. If you saw a Miss then they dodged the attack. Also maybe some animations gave them perfect dodge, I seem to recall that being a bit annoying, though hardly game breaking. Maybe one of the stats helped you hit more often? I don't remember, I last played the game years ago.
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Oct 13, 2016 17:44
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Zanzibar Ham posted:I actually preferred that more than letting players wail on enemies uselessly with below 100% strength weapon swings. Though I suppose that had its uses in multiplayer maybe? Another great thing about SD3 was that you didn't need to charge manually with a button for super attacks, instead it charged as you hit enemies. Much better than how you two try to charge attacks but get interrupted all the time. And I don't think things had tighter hit boxes, it's just things had an evade stat (like your character), so could dodge hits. If you saw a Miss then they dodged the attack. Also maybe some animations gave them perfect dodge, I seem to recall that being a bit annoying, though hardly game breaking. Maybe one of the stats helped you hit more often? I don't remember, I last played the game years ago. I agree that SD3's charge system is better, and the three pips system is just a bad visual expression of the 0-100 charge system that Adventure and Secret employed. I just want a better visual representation of how long it's going to take to charge. That and I would have liked the ability to dump my charge to book it across the field of battle for better positioning. I remember the miss popup, but I also thought I remembered seeing several attacks just no sell without that popup. Might have been related to attack animations. In related news, I went and bought Adventures of Mana for my PSTV, so an LP of that might follow/ go up alongside this one once I get myself an HDMI capable capture card. My old one is a least a decade old by this point and only has composite/S-video input. Ryushikaze fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Oct 13, 2016 |
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Oct 13, 2016 18:13
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In Today's episode, we head into the forest, only to realize we need to head into the earth, first. Episode 5- Low Rent Strongbad
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Oct 17, 2016 15:17
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Would you believe I never knew you could convince the girl to go to Gaia's Navel with you? I always thought you had to split with her if you recruited her before going there and meet up again later on.
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Oct 18, 2016 01:22
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Nidoking posted:Would you believe I never knew you could convince the girl to go to Gaia's Navel with you? I always thought you had to split with her if you recruited her before going there and meet up again later on. Yeah, the trigger is to head into the forest until you hit the axeble rocks, after which the game sets a flag that represents "Going to Gaia's navel is now in line with my goals" I remembered the rocks, but forgot they were so early in the forest. It all worked out in the end, though.
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Oct 18, 2016 14:43
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Oh my goodness I love Secret of Mana so much; my sister and I ran through it when we got older, but it's been a long while since I've played. Now I really need to get around to it again. They were remaking and rereleasing SD1, so maybe if that works out they might do SD2 later? Hopefully?
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Oct 18, 2016 16:45
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In today's episode, everything goes well, and then it goes horribly horribly wrong. Oh so wrong. Episode 06 - When was our last save point, again? Charlett posted:Oh my goodness I love Secret of Mana so much; my sister and I ran through it when we got older, but it's been a long while since I've played. Now I really need to get around to it again. They were remaking and rereleasing SD1, so maybe if that works out they might do SD2 later? Hopefully? I would love to see a remake of SD2 with Adventure of Mana level detail in its background and models, and with the more robust story it had before size concerns had them pare it down before it got pared down a second time for the english release.
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Oct 20, 2016 19:54
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In Today's episode we get a new playable character, and that means we get a new character introduction! The Sprite, AKA: Popoi- this young forest child- referred to as a he several points in the dub, but of deliberately vague gender in the original- is the game's Black mage. Possessing almost all of the game's offensive magic and the magical stats to back it up, the sprite unfortunately has the physical stats to back it up, and so he will fall over in a stiff breeze if you don't him well away from the fight and an eye on his HP. He can trivialize boss fights if you have the MP and let him go wild. The sprite, when you meet it, has lost its memory after being literally washed from its former home during a flood, and is acting as a con-man with the dwarf elder in their village. After you catch the duo talking about their scheme,, the sprite joins your party in the hopes of regaining its lost memories and finding its way home. All that to say, it's time for another episode, folks. And I've finally gotten our audio issues more or less fixed. Or at least I've learned to check my volume levels before we sit down and record. Episode 07- More Issues than X-men Ryushikaze fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Oct 25, 2016 |
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Oct 25, 2016 15:16
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Today's episode features an embarrassing defeat, and a glorious victory. Episode 08- "Run, Run!" "I'm Trying!"
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Oct 27, 2016 19:14
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Didn't notice but the last 2 videos don't take up all the vertical height of screen.
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Oct 28, 2016 00:17
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The Sprite isn't supposed to be that weak at this point - you didn't upgrade to the Spiky Suit. I think that makes a bigger difference than either of the armor pieces you bought.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:25
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FeyerbrandX posted:Didn't notice but the last 2 videos don't take up all the vertical height of screen. Huh, so it is. I guess I screwed up the conversion. I'll see if I can figure out why it did that and upload new versions. Nidoking posted:The Sprite isn't supposed to be that weak at this point - you didn't upgrade to the Spiky Suit. I think that makes a bigger difference than either of the armor pieces you bought. A keen observation, and one that we do remedy shortly. Update: I fixed the scaling issue for the existing videos, and will try and figure out what I did to cause it in the first place. Ryushikaze fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 15:49
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Today's episode sees us leaving the Witch's forest and heading to the Water Temple, but we detour to Gaia's navel, so now's as good a time as any to introduce another character!, Alternately, or Watts- AKA: Your best drat friend- Watts here isn't a playable character, but he is a Densetsu series staple, the equivalent of Cid, as it were. He's always a blacksmith, and you usually need his help in some way to proceed. In Secret of Mana, that comes in the form of the Rock breaker Axe that lets you progress through the forest, but Watt's real purpose is to be your one stop shop for all things weapons, letting you upgrade the weapons on your ring with the Orbs taken from felled bosses, not only making them stronger, but allowing you to level them up further and charge them with extra power. He's also pretty chill about pretty much everything. Watts is a pretty cool dude. Of course, Watts does have another notable feature... Episode 09- Watts has a Sweet rear end
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Nov 1, 2016 19:27
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Nidoking posted:Would you believe I never knew you could convince the girl to go to Gaia's Navel with you? I always thought you had to split with her if you recruited her before going there and meet up again later on. It's been a while since I've last played, but I'm pretty sure that if she leaves your party, you have to rescue her from a pair of werewolves before you get to the witch's castle. Also, I thought I had found that ghosts don't get XP. Ryushikaze posted:Of course, Watts does have another notable feature... You seem to have set the video as private.
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Nov 1, 2016 21:02
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Cockmaster posted:It's been a while since I've last played, but I'm pretty sure that if she leaves your party, you have to rescue her from a pair of werewolves before you get to the witch's castle. Also, I thought I had found that ghosts don't get XP. I had apparently forgotten to click the button to publish it. It's up now. I don't recall needing to rescue her from werewolves if she leaves the party. I think you're thinking of if you encounter her in the Witch's forest before having her join initially.
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Nov 1, 2016 21:14
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Ryushikaze posted:I don't recall needing to rescue her from werewolves if she leaves the party. I think you're thinking of if you encounter her in the Witch's forest before having her join initially. Yeah, that could be it. All I really remember is fighting two werewolves (who know Cure Water, remember) with just the boy. You can probably imagine how well that went. Edit: Though the tiger wasn't much easier. Cockmaster fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Nov 4, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 21:40
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Hey everyone, this weeks episode brought to you by the dark god of puns. Episode 10- Puns Sans Frontières
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Nov 4, 2016 15:00
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Ryushikaze posted:In Today's episode we get a new playable character, and that means we get a new character introduction! The German translation (the one I grew up with) went the other way, they referred to the child as a "she" as often as possible to really hammer the message down.
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Nov 4, 2016 15:41
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Libluini posted:The German translation (the one I grew up with) went the other way, they referred to the child as a "she" as often as possible to really hammer the message down. Then again, aren't genders in German kind of weird anyway? Mark Twain thought so, at least.
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Nov 4, 2016 23:28
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To be frank, that a lot of languages have specifically gendered words in the first place is confusing as poo poo at times. It's like the one thing English does right and even then, only sometimes.
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Nov 5, 2016 21:39
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Libluini posted:The German translation (the one I grew up with) went the other way, they referred to the child as a "she" as often as possible to really hammer the message down. Odd. The sprite is of deliberately indeterminate gender. Do you know anything behind the decision? Also, I recorded a new session of this yesterday, and I swear, I do testing. I do vigorous pre recording testing. poo poo fucks up anyways and stuff goes strange in ways I cannot rightly explain.
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Nov 6, 2016 00:03
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To distract yourself from the US election, have 20 minutes of cocking about in Secret of Mana. Episode 11- The Dark Souls of Super Nintendo
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Nov 8, 2016 16:47
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In today's outing, we get our faces unceremoniously shoved in, and swear revenge! Episode 12- Abandon all skill, Ye who enter here!
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Nov 10, 2016 21:47
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Yeah, you're probably going to have to start grinding off-camera pretty soon.
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Nov 12, 2016 00:05
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In particular, I used to grind magic every time I got a new element or a new upgrade level. Since the magic becomes stronger if you use it enough, whether you hit anything with it or not, and there's usually a source of free healing available, there's little reason not to.
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Nov 13, 2016 22:04
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