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Indigofreak posted:If her flaw was wanting power then that is a flaw every politician has, which he sort of concedes? So what's his point? The only sound argument he has is about her policies that change, but then he just boils over into insults.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:41
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Regarding mistakes Hillary (and the DNC) made, I feel that stuff like the "deplorables" incident was a huge mistake and, to a lot of Trump supporters (or potential Trump supporters), basically reinforced the stereotype of liberals being out of touch elitists and possibly galvanized them. In general, there was an obvious sense of disdain and condescension from the Democratic Party towards anyone voting (or even considering to vote for) Trump. Trump voters were also heavily mis-characterized by Clinton/Democrats. While a majority of Trump voters are certainly at least somewhat racist, that was not the driving factor behind his support. The main reason people supported Trump was because they were unhappy with the status quo and hoped someone from "outside the establishment" might change things (because they sure as hell couldn't expect Hillary to*, given her core message of "America is already great and things are moving in the right direction"). The fact that their solution to this problem was ridiculous and counterproductive doesn't change the fact that the core motivation for their opinions was something genuine and understandable. Even the racism doesn't just stem from nothing; people turn to such bigoted beliefs because they are unhappy and seeking someone to blame for their problems. Obviously I am not saying that a significant number of Trump voters would have switched their votes to Clinton if she had addressed these issues. But I do feel like it may have decreased his support somewhat and also possibly increased support and enthusiasm among poorer white Democrats. Just in case, I feel like I should mention that I voted for Clinton in TN, so this post is not an argument in favor of voting third party. I just feel that Clinton/Democrats made some pretty critical mistakes this election and will continue to fail if they don't learn from them. (As a side note, one observation I've made during this election is that, from my subjective experience, Hillary's most enthusiastic supporters seemed to be economically secure white professionals. While I'm sure many people I know who don't fit this description voted for Hillary, literally every single person who was openly enthusiastic was a well-off professional. While this is anecdotal and should obviously be taken with a grain of salt, I feel like it may have been representative of the nature of Hillary's support in general and why she had such poor turn-out among Democratic voters. Also, since most people who are well-off professionals mostly know other people are also well-off professionals, they probably had the general perception that support for Hillary was higher than it actually was. This also applies to large swathes of the coastal liberal media, who were insulated in a bubble of people from similar socioeconomic backgrounds that colored their perception of general enthusiasm for Hillary's campaign.) * I mean this in the sense that Hillary and the DNC's messaging did not emphasize problems with the status quo. I realize that her actual policies would have made a significant positive impact, and I also understand that they did this in an attempt to gain the support of people who are happy with Obama's presidency, but I still feel like it was a mistake. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 09:25
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Leaving aside that creepy article, I think the point is that Hillary had obvious weaknesses as a candidate that she either knew about or ought to have know about, and which ultimately led to her snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Given this she ought to have refrained from running, especially given that it was growing increasingly clear that the Cheeto Benito would be the GOP candidate as last year went on. Instead she and her campaign glossed over said glaring problems and used their institutional advantages to get her the nomination, even though this risked disaster, which subsequently turned out to be disastrous. The broad strokes of this seems accurate, given subsequent events.
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Nov 10, 2016 09:35
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Latest episode of the weeds says the democrats invested time and money into planning for their presidency that could have been used trying to get elected. But I'm curious if they did that to an unusual degree, seems like some portion of the party would always be thinking ahead.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:47
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So, one of the few actual cool results got buried in The Shock was that Maine elected to start using Ranked Choice Voting, which I guess is just IRV under yet another name? Maybe this'll be the start of trend? It'd be nice for States Rights to be working for a good cause for a change and we could finally stop arguing about wasting votes.
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Nov 13, 2016 09:55
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I voted straight libertarian ticked, got the party on my state ballot for the next four years, and my vote helped gently caress over our lovely republican senator. Sorry dems, the only way I would have voted for your So I'm going to vote for change. For for the guy who's promising to keep off of my loving lawn. Not for the change that Trump is promising (dude's a nutter), and I sure as gently caress ain't voting for the Bush-Lite-But-Liberal-On-Social-Issues Obama status Quo. Well that's my story, thanks for listening
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Nov 22, 2016 06:17
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I voted for someone whose platform I (mostly) agreed with and not for the two major candidates, both of whom seem pretty intent on ending the world. Thanks, fam.
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Nov 22, 2016 07:33
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Nov 22, 2016 07:37
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The law prevented me from voting despite having as much at stake as a lot of the people who were allowed to vote.
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Nov 22, 2016 07:38
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Edit: Wrong thread
Yivgev fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 12:31
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OWLS! posted:I voted straight libertarian ticked, Congrats on voting for the worst party in American politics, I guess.
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Nov 22, 2016 15:30
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NewForumSoftware posted:dude read your posts in this thread, you're a warhawk piece of poo poo that doesn't give a rat's rear end about progress Lol, my dead military cousins thank you for this post btw Go war great poo poo lets mirder
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Nov 22, 2016 15:36
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The law prevented me from voting despite having as much at stake as a lot of the people who were allowed to vote. 12 year olds shouldn't be voting.
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Nov 22, 2016 16:40
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A lot of you so called progressives honestly have more hate and vitriol inside of you than the average freeper. You're the people that become insane conservatives later in life...sad!
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Nov 22, 2016 17:40
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TheLightPurges posted:12 year olds shouldn't be voting.
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Nov 22, 2016 17:50
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tsa posted:A lot of you so called progressives honestly have more hate and vitriol inside of you than the average freeper. You're the people that become insane conservatives later in life...sad! they're already doing creepy gloating speeches about watching the welfare queens die itt
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Nov 22, 2016 17:54
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tsa posted:A lot of you so called progressives honestly have more hate and vitriol inside of you than the average freeper. You're the people that become insane conservatives later in life...sad! Who said progressives aren't allowed to have hate and vitriol? Hating fascism and bigotry is in fact morally good.
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Nov 22, 2016 18:23
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SSNeoman posted:The woman did everything right. She ran the campaign literally as well as it could possibly go. I cannot find a single flaw in the way she ran it besides She ignored Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania in favor of spending money on ads in California and New York. Her campaign also ignored Bill's advice to engage voters in those states. If she had run the best campaign she could have, she'd be president. Instead she ran a mealy-mouthed campaign that focused on the wrong parts of the country.
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Nov 22, 2016 18:29
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Who What Now posted:Who said progressives aren't allowed to have hate and vitriol? Hating fascism and bigotry is in fact morally good. That traditional redoubt against fascism, pro-establishment liberals struggling to contain threats to their disintegrating status quo 
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Nov 22, 2016 18:31
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I wonder if, like our President-Elect with his book of inspirational Hitler speeches, Hilldawg and her flacks looked back to the 1930s for inspiration on smart ways for the business class to clear their path of populist opposition that totally ended well, when they started cheering for Trump in the primaries.
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Nov 22, 2016 18:34
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Posting in this thread to suggest that third party voters are human beings with complex motives and many of them are just as good and intelligent as the condescending, vitriol-spewing Hillary voters in this thread. It probably isn't a good idea to call them sexists, racists, and Nazis. I know, I know, they have thin skin, they should just get over being called Nazis by people who clearly hold nothing but seething contempt for them, and who straight up tell them that they don't want their support because they're just so evil and stupid. You guys are really something else. How many family members did you disown today for voting Jill Stein or whatever?
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Nov 22, 2016 22:02
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:That traditional redoubt against fascism, pro-establishment liberals struggling to contain threats to their disintegrating status quo Does "Bash the fash" mean I have to take a baseball bat to my elderly grandparents who voted Trump? I think they're pretty nice people, but at the same time I don't want to be held culpable for the rise of the American fascist state, so I guess I have no choice. I guess it's time for gram-gram's head to be turned into pumpkin pulp. I won't fail you again, Hillary....I swear it!
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Nov 22, 2016 22:05
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Cnut the Great posted:Does "Bash the fash" mean I have to take a baseball bat to my elderly grandparents who voted Trump? I think they're pretty nice people, but at the same time I don't want to be held culpable for the rise of the American fascist state, so I guess I have no choice. I guess it's time for gram-gram's head to be turned into pumpkin pulp. I won't fail you again, Hillary....I swear it! I'm pretty sure the Clinton camp strategy right now is to drink the punch and follow your abuela into the next world where she shall reign eternal, but if you wanna add a couple geriatrics to her retinue while you're at it go right ahead
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Nov 22, 2016 22:25
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Cnut the Great posted:Does "Bash the fash" mean I have to take a baseball bat to my elderly grandparents who voted Trump? I think they're pretty nice people, but at the same time I don't want to be held culpable for the rise of the American fascist state, so I guess I have no choice. I guess it's time for gram-gram's head to be turned into pumpkin pulp. I won't fail you again, Hillary....I swear it! attaboy
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Nov 22, 2016 22:46
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Cnut the Great posted:Does "Bash the fash" mean I have to take a baseball bat to my elderly grandparents who voted Trump? I think they're pretty nice people, but at the same time I don't want to be held culpable for the rise of the American fascist state, so I guess I have no choice. I guess it's time for gram-gram's head to be turned into pumpkin pulp. I won't fail you again, Hillary....I swear it! Next week on the Walking Dead... 
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Nov 22, 2016 23:00
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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I skipped all the pages except the first. Has anyone tried to justify FPTP over something sensible like IRV? Because if they have (lol), I'd really like to see the justification.
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Nov 23, 2016 14:53
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NumberLast posted:I voted for someone whose platform I (mostly) agreed with and not for the two major candidates, both of whom seem pretty intent on ending the world. this also it's hilarious seeing all the bitter hill folk tears. maybe next time try attracting people to your candidate instead of trying to shame people into voting for corporatists
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Nov 23, 2016 16:37
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"People concerned about the safety of their friends and family? pfft, shoulda voted for Bernie. Losers"
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Nov 23, 2016 17:33
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Cnut the Great posted:You guys are really something else. How many family members did you disown today for voting Jill Stein or whatever? None, because my family isn't filled with dipshits.
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Nov 23, 2016 18:04
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Nevvy Z posted:"People concerned about the safety of their friends and family? pfft, shoulda voted for Bernie. Losers" i was concerned about the safety of my friends and family too, which is why i voted for a candidate that could win in the dem primary after the primary my vote was worthless, so i voted for gloria la riva instead of hillary. the hill folk were losers though and carried water for hillary on everything instead of trying to pressure her to be a better candidate. oh well maybe next time
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Nov 23, 2016 18:16
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Weatherman posted:I skipped all the pages except the first. Has anyone tried to justify FPTP over something sensible like IRV? Because if they have (lol), I'd really like to see the justification. mate, this ain't that kind of thread anymore also no Condiv posted:i was concerned about the safety of my friends and family too, which is why i voted for a candidate that could win in the dem primary "I was concerned about my friends, but then I wasn't!"
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Nov 23, 2016 18:35
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SSNeoman posted:mate, this ain't that kind of thread anymore Nope, still care about my friends. Voting for Hillary wouldn't help them though so I voted psl since I align more with them Too bad you and the other hill folk don't seem to grasp basic concepts like inspiring people to turn out for your candidate, winner takes all states, or the electoral college. Then again, that's what makes this thread funny.
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Nov 23, 2016 19:33
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Condiv posted:Nope, still care about my friends. Voting for Hillary wouldn't help them though so I voted psl since I align more with them Do... do you think the half dozen regular posters in this thread are personally responsible for voter turnout or something? Are you brain damaged?
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Nov 23, 2016 20:12
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Condiv posted:Nope, still care about my friends. Voting for Hillary wouldn't help them though so I voted psl since I align more with them "I was concerned about my friends, but then Bernie lost and then I wasn't!"
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Nov 23, 2016 20:18
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Cnut the Great posted:
Me and my parents voted for the same person and we got the good result so we're happy. As did most of my extended family. I think my sister might have been the outlier opinion wise but she doesn't vote.
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Nov 23, 2016 20:22
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SSNeoman posted:"I was concerned about my friends, but then Bernie lost and then I wasn't!" Hmm yes, voting for Hillary in the 5th reddest state this election would've helped my friends. Oh wait, no it wouldn't of, you're just lashing out at third party voters because you can't deal with the fact hillary was terrible and couldn't turn out dems. Who What Now posted:Do... do you think the half dozen regular posters in this thread are personally responsible for voter turnout or something? Are you brain damaged? I think that toxic idiots like you probably hurt her turnout yes.
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Nov 23, 2016 20:29
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Condiv posted:Hmm yes, voting for Hillary in the 5th reddest state this election would've helped my friends. Oh wait, no it wouldn't of, you're just lashing out at third party voters because you can't deal with the fact hillary was terrible and couldn't turn out dems. Yeah, there isn't really any inherent problem with voting third party in a state that is guaranteed to be either red or blue. I still have a problem with Jill Stein voters, but that's because Jill Stein is awful, not because of strategy or whatever.
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Nov 24, 2016 00:53
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How to throw away your vote, use it on trump or hillary
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Nov 24, 2016 00:58
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Voting for Trump doesn't seem like a wasted vote in hindsight now. I admit I had almost lost faith as the crap polls were everywhere. I knew they were skewed as they had been consistantly for over a year but seeing them every single day for weeks tested me. But I was strong and voted. Stay strong friends.
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Nov 24, 2016 03:57
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Condiv posted:I think that toxic idiots like you probably hurt her turnout yes. You vastly overestimate the political influence of a dead comedy forum then. Much like you overestimate the influence of third parties. 
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Nov 24, 2016 17:44
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