LET'S FLIP FLAPPING

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Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Dr Salt is totally Gendo Ikari....

# ¿ Oct 14, 2016 00:08

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 09:46

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Someone on twitter pointed out the word Thomasson being used, which seems to be a major theme of the show:

https://twitter.com/vestenet/status/786824285323010049

http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/thomassons/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperart_Thomasson#The_Pure_type

Thomassons being vestigial elements left over as cities reinvent themselves. This imagery seems to appear a lot in the show - for example, the useless glasses Cocona wears and the concrete pipe in the first episode.

It's probably my pseudo-OCD talking, but it feels easy to connect this to Dennou Coil, which the director worked on previously. That show was also concerned with the idea of obselete, forgotten spaces underlying ordinary reality, and obselete entities in terms of the Illegals.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2016 13:56

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Space Flower posted:

Dennou Coil with yuri... oh wait.

Also, I feel like Cocona's glasses could be a memento from her parents?

Well, I think it's important to note that it's something she wears. It's not just a keepsake she carries with her, but something that specifically does nothing.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2016 14:08

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

lets hang out posted:

I thought she said that just to dissuade Papika from risking her life for them. I'd say the same thing.

She doesn't wear them in the OP to read at night, e.g. http://randomc.net/image/Flip%20Flappers/Flip%20Flappers%20-%20OP%20-%20Large%2002.jpg

But I think generally if you have a character making a statement like that, you kinda need to make it drat clear it's a lie immediately if you didn't intend it to be taken as the truth.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2016 16:29

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Mokinokaro posted:

And the fact they captured Papika at the end of episode 1 yet seemed to have let her go for whatever reason.

They're probably watching Flip Flap's progress and intercepting where needed like they did in episode 3.

I'm gonna guess Salt's group did that.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2016 21:50

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

It's also interesting to see that fear actually exists for Papika but what specifically makes her afraid is well, this sort of thing. Cocona's role is like her's in the credit sequence.

Someone was talking about how PI might react to the mentality of the person entering it, but in this instance it's Yayaka, no?

# ¿ Nov 4, 2016 18:14

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

site posted:

It couldn't have been totally on yayaka though since she recognized the loop but couldn't do anything about it until cocona broke the cycle. It was focused on cocona at least to a significant enough degree that she had to play a role in doing something.

I kinda actually disagree. Like if PI is set up to essentially defend the Amorphous from whoever first gets there, then it makes a lot of sense why the Flip Flappers have been having such trouble all this time, while the ... erm, Flap Flippers have been able to waltz in second and take the Amorphous.

You've got the hidden door that Papika can detect by smell, and the long tower climb under a timer that Henshin mode flight can bypass. This PI wasn't designed to stop the Flip Flappers.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2016 21:12

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

I think stuff like the shading of her face also suggest she was controlled, too.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2016 23:49

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Oh gently caress me!

https://twitter.com/B0bduh/status/797099065775419392

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 22:43

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

The Sakuga Blog (https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2016/11/12/flip-flappers-episode-6/) pointed out that this episode was storyboarded by the series director of Mob Psycho 100...

# ¿ Nov 12, 2016 21:12

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

You're so wrong.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2016 01:42

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Speaking of Eva as gently caress...

I guess we just got some solid hints as to who the robot's brain belonged to, and their connection with Hidaka?

I guess it's not a surprise that (for good and for ill) this was the most indulgent episode yet.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Nov 24, 2016

# ¿ Nov 24, 2016 14:47

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Darth Walrus posted:

Ah, figured out what this PI world meant - just as the Class S episode was our look inside Yayaka's head, this one was Dr. Hidaka's time to shine. We already had some evidence that Bu-chan was some sort of remote avatar for him, and guess who fell through the portal first? Obviously, Cocona was filtering it through her memories of Iro, but I think that Hidaka being the main influence is a reasonable guess. That does tell us his motive in all this - he's an artist, and signed on with Salt for the aesthetic value of what he's trying to do.

Actually, I wonder if the specific mechanics were the reason for the size thing - Bu-chan's Pure Illusion avatar was a smaller version of Hidaka.

People have said this elsewhere as well but I don't really think so. Like I said earlier, I think this really means that Bu-chan is/was someone connected to Hidaka. This PI is really about losing one's humanity/being stuffed into a robot to save someone precious to you, and what one is willing to lose or not when one survives. What we see as Pops is a diminished representation of who Bu-chan was, and what we see outside of PI is both evidence that this person built the Flip Flapper base, and that Hidaka built themselves on their image. But the core fixation of this PI, the birds assaulting this city-sized brain that is a symbol of their intellect... That's someone else's.

# ¿ Nov 25, 2016 02:17

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Yeah, this episode was great.

Sort of chilling showing the twins' manipulative side, though.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2016 19:56

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

It seems strongly suggested that Yayaka is an orphan who has internalized the sense that her value and her place in the world is innately connected to her role in the organisation.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2016 14:36

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Wow, plot.

Bu-chan is going to turn out to be Cocona's dad, isn't he? That seems like the most fairy tale way for this to go.

Or maybe it'd be Uexkull!

Fangz fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Dec 8, 2016

# ¿ Dec 8, 2016 15:12

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

I mean if it is Salt then his Gendo Ikari impression is complete. Get in the Thomasson Cocona.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2016 15:56

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

It's ironic that of all the different Papikas we saw in that one episode, the only one we didn't see is the true (?) one.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2016 11:53

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

I do think that the justification given to it in the narrative doesn't negate that the portrayal is annoying to some people, and it kinda makes me have to qualify my recommendation of the series to other people when I wish I didn't have to.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2016 15:43

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Oh there's two more episodes of this?

Also, Emily Rand's articles on this are pretty good. Particularly the recent one on the language of flowers and symbolism in the show.

https://formeinfullbloom.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/pieces-of-yayaka-flower-language-in-flip-flappers/

quote:

The common meaning of the white clover flower is similar to the clover itself � luck and fortune. It also means �think of me� or the promise of a life of leisure.

More importantly, white clover flowers also carry the meaning of revenge for broken promises. The giver gifts the object of their affection with a white clover wreath, asking their potential partner to think of them. Should they break that promise, the white clover promises revenge.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Dec 15, 2016

# ¿ Dec 15, 2016 17:18

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Well my read is that Nyunyu's role in the story is just to represent Yayaka's sense of inadequacy. Now that she seems to have gotten over that, she can be pretty much sidelined.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2016 20:02

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

https://twitter.com/bisexualrobot/status/809639047794565124

Nice.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2016 20:33

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Hang in there, Flip Flappers animators https://twitter.com/binobinobi/status/812816500201385984

# ¿ Dec 25, 2016 20:51

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Nice finale.

Enjoy the instant noodles, FF animators... :3:

https://twitter.com/binobinobi/status/814135201865428992

# ¿ Dec 29, 2016 23:46

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Pavlov is pretty bad at watching anime

# ¿ Dec 30, 2016 00:06

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Yeah, that's exactly right. Look at the recurring imagery of the vertical striped prison bars that dogged Cocona in most of her normal life scenes, and then in the final arc appeared within PI itself. In this episode they are exorcised. So in the visual language of the show, Cocona has escaped, both in and out of PI.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2016 00:22

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

LOVE LOVE SKELETON posted:

I've got a dozen small questions/nitpicks about this episode, but I'll just stick with one: what's up with the scene of Papika in tree prison. Is this something that actually happened in the past, or am I supposed to read it as a figurative expression of their relationship? If it's the former, then I'm completely lost on the timeline.

Also, kind of neat

I think it's sort of deliberately ambiguous. I personally go with 'something in between'. I mean their feelings are in sync for Flip Flapping so we know they are similar in how they are feeling, so I think that scene is a blending of what happened in the past, and what's happening in the present (Cocona captured in the wooden barred prison).

Pavlov posted:

Can be!

I wish we had gotten to see coconut apply that 'confidence' thing she was working on towards making the best out of it. Instead we got butterflies in Pure Illusion.

She rejects that reality because she can't find her love. It's pretty simple.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2016 01:30

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Yeah, Emily Rand mentioned that a while back in her articles analysing the show. https://formeinfullbloom.wordpress.com/category/editorialsessays/flip-flappers/

See also that the flower associated with Mimi has the meaning of 'revenge for broken promises'.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2016 16:20

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

There's an interview with the director up:

http://pastebin.com/raw/nr2UqrWw

In japanese, so here's a google translate:

quote:

"" I do not know what is interesting but I will see it is the best compliment "
Interview with Kiyomasa Oshama

Challenging esoteric subjects
First film director's fight

- Please tell me from the circumstances that first became involved in this work.

Oshiyama: The first opportunity is the encounter between Mr. Matsuya (Yuichiro) who is the current representative director of 3 Hz and Kubo (Hideaki) who is doing the desk this time. When the two people were in Kinema citrus there was a project that said "Let's work together" It did not come true after all, but when two people later quit Kinema citrus and launch 3 Hz (Around March 2013) I was talking about "I'd like to do something together at 3 Hz". At 3 Hz, there is a company theme "I want to make original works" and I also wanted to do the original, so the project of this work started to move.

It was about the summer of 2013 that started specifically.

I and the members Matsuke, Kubo, Nagaya (Keiyuki), Okada (Kunihiko) camped out, but at that time thematic subjects such as "go through the hole and adventure in a different world" are almost decided It was.

- Whose proposal is "to enter a hole and go to another world"?

Oshiyama: When I got a director's story, it was decided that "Space Opera", "The main character is two girls", "It's not like battleships getting stunned or aliens coming out, etc. From the place where I can not do space opera that people in the world are not doing "is my idea.

- When did you switch from the original Space Opera to a road movie story about Pure Illusion?

Oshiyama: From the time the idea of the hole was adopted. In the early stages of the project I was watching the story that "viewers will not follow if it develops too much stress." So, if something happens in the play, I wonder if the motivation of the viewer will not continue unless I let him settle in that round. In the first half, as much as possible hold each happy ending, making a draw in the C part at the end and talking about how to make a baton touch to the next time was from the initial stage.

- You are also focused on depicting battle and action, right?

Oshiyama: That is because I wanted to make it a slightly outstanding work among a few works because I was unknown (laugh). I also have a section that I thought was mostly a career as an animator, and if it is almost an amateur as a director, if I can not compete with animation, it will be buried in other works. " But I personally had no idea "I want to make" Furihura "an action animation. From the producer side, there is a proposal that you want elements such as "girls transform," "use big weapons", "make two transformations one time" and so on, the result action elements taken in It became a strong work. Fortunately, I am relatively good at drafting actions, I drew consciously about contained containers that contain good animators that do not flinch. The action scene has good screen shine to express the dynamism of animation. Although I am going to a different world with much effort, it is a waste not to move at all. As a result, I think that it has become one of the important constituent elements to form this work by spreading the range of the work by adding flashy actions.

- You are moving fancy from the OP.

Oshiyama: I'm smoking that "it's a flashy work." However, I do not think that OP and main part are moving so much in me (laugh) ", so I'm thankful that everyone is praising" I'm moving ". Compared to my past work, it is not that much moving, and friends of animators who know me understand that "Oshiyama, although it is the first episode, I have not moved it at all" (laugh) ).

Building a mysterious world
Message in the video

- You are putting more emphasis on events related to Pure Ily Yujong than action.

Oshiki: That's right. There are a lot of people who feel interesting if you add variations of stories around human thought and the multifaceted aspect of viewpoint but on the other hand it is difficult to do with pure illusion too much. Although I knew that the risk is also very difficult commercially as Tema, "I am still young, so I can eat it with animator even if I fail as a director" (laugh) I stepped in. As of now, I'm thinking that "I did not have to be fooled first at first" I think. I do not think that I can draw pure illusion in all 13 episodes (laugh).

- Although many parodies and metaphors are packed in the movie of this work, are the director himself familiar with such subjects?

Oshiyama: I just put in my favorite stuff and it is not detailed in many ways. Basically, they are made to understand the story without noticing these stories, and in terms of making screens, "Information I want to add elements that can complement ". Also, since this illusion is one of the themes of illusion, it was one of my personal themes to pursue what "what you can do with picture making" in the illusion part. Another thing is that we simply liked such subjects originally. In the past, about the ring world (* the idea that all animals live with species-specific perception world and act as their subjects, respectively), behavioral theory of living things, analytic psychology, etc., animal behaviorist Hidaka I have read Toshitaka's easy-to-understand books, though. A famous psychologist named Kawai Hayao, who is talking about psychology, myths and folk tales, was invited and his book was also a hint. The pure illusion of this work is close to the ring world, and the multifacetality of the world inherent in living organisms is also one of the themes, so if you associate it with psychology, it might be compatible. It is a feeling that I have included a lot of thoughtful stories around that. Actually, the 18th episode of "Space ☆ Dandy" (Director Oshama was in charge of the legged storyboard contest, directing / drawing director), but such elements are probably included, but nobody notices (laugh).

For each purely illusion of each story I do not mention who the world is in the play, but after seeing it and imagining "Is this the world of that character?" Feeling it is aimed is not it. Of course, as a producer, I have decided to a certain extent, but I do not want to make it so clear. Since things that can be hints of reasoning are mixed in the video, I think that you can read and understand in the way. However, recently I'd like to have fun try not to feel as stressful as possible. "Because I think that there are many people who wish to watch television vaguely as they come back from work tired, so that we can enjoy it fluently as a story of girls' junior high school students , Emphasis is placed on attractively drawing characters rather than stories, and lily elements are packed up. Those who want to see it comfortably, those who want to be considered, I think that what kind of way of enjoying can be done. So, I'm very happy to hear that you are seeing twitter "I do not know what's interesting but I do not see it" or "I do not know what is being pulled by".

Speaking of the image side, please tell me about tanu's appointment.

Oshiyama: I was a producer-side recommendation for tanu's appointment, but I was asking for concept art. At first I was talking about "How about a character design?", Since it was a part I wanted to control on the site side, it is very encouraging that there is someone who can think about the visual image of the whole world than that, I asked, "I am better that way" I mentioned. Also, I did not want to make it similar to the works I made. For some original animation work, the original draft character is tanu, and other staff also wear it well with this work (laugh).

- What kind of work is concept art?

Oshiyama: While I was at the same time parallel with the script, I was asked to ask "Please draw something image illustration" about the pure illusion world, but after the screenplay went up in the second half, Mr. Matsuya Let's ask tanu to talk to you "and it was a feeling to meet with tanu. Regarding the character, it is sometimes to get idea from Mr. tanu at an overview point, but basically it was a feeling that "Because such a place appears in the work, please give me some idea". Tell the image of me and ask the artist to deliver what I'm likely to go as it is to visualize early and finish the board. I used it as one of the materials that can explain the atmosphere.

- As you asked for work, did you explain to tanu about the character and the world setting?

Oshiyama: It changed the way of explanation depending on things. Basically, if I explain it in detail, I thought that I could make something that is not different from my image, so I kept asking for the detailed setting part to be ambiguous. After the time has gone, I do not have a concrete image yet, I feel like I made my own image while explaining to tanu. I am saved from tanu by having a lot of sensibility that I do not have.

Playful and commitment
Selection in a free position

- Have you had any difficulties in making this visual's visual?

Oshiyama: Because it is still original animation. Since there was nothing to be the base and the situation where the staff could not be aligned well, it was a lot of work that I had to do on my own. I had secured working hours compared to other works, but still it was not enough. But I will do the only thing I can do.

Speaking of good things, there is no way hesitantly mixed various kinds of material because he is a director. If this is a different position, even if there are various ideas, is not it hard to do, because the idea of "Does the manager match the work?" Or "What do you think?" Comes first. On that occasion, if the director decided to decide arbitrarily after the painting story, there is a part which is permitted, and we devoted plenty of material. If there is no way to be selfish, I think that it got a thinner screen.

- I am in charge of the script in the seventh episode, but is the director's hand also in regard to the overall story?

Oshiki: That's right. When the concept of the work was decided, I joined Yuni Aya and assembled the composition jointly. In the second half, when asking Hayashi (Naoki) to write a script, since all the things to do already have been decided, it seems that it was arranged in the style of screenplay. Because the schedule was imminent, Hayashi was there and I was really saved. As for the first half of the story, I decided what to do at each time by myself, I feel that each scriptwriter added the favorite elements. Ms. Aya got a good lily element to be included in the work. I think that the viewer of today is very important as an easy-to-find element.

- Does the director have a commitment to "Yuri" himself?

Oshiyama: I am not that close. I just feel like I just seized the line of 'do not do it' or 'do not step over' just as I was talking to from Ayano. While saying that in seventh episode I guessed somewhat breaking the rules. In the times when various kinds of personality's Papika appears, boys-like papika comes out. In a lilitic point of view, I knew that 'I do not want to get the same generation of boys into cocona much,' I heard that Papito and Papya were also in the body of a girl in me However, it seems that Kojima Kyodo-kun wanted to be a boy (lol), there is a part that is rather a man's form. Even with Papillo, my first sketch was rolling out a handbread on my chest, making me feel like "to the last woman." Also in the eighth episode, Otchan's boy of the same generation comes out, but he also made it smaller to make it not look the same as the cocona.

--What do you think is the times when the director's color comes out?

Oshiyama: I think that it is coming out throughout. I am asking the outside person for a storyboard, but there are a lot of pretty visuals decided at the stage where the theme of the work is strong. So I think that it is dense in all the times in terms of my ingredients. Of course, the ideas of the director of each time are packed too. It is mostly me who put in the third episode "Fist of the North Star" and "Dragon Ball" like parody ingredients (laugh). Even those who took charge of the storyboard also included a parody story, but the story that leads to my generation is what I entered at the storyboard. The robot of the eighth talk is also so. From the time the project started, there was a request that "I want you to enter the robot time", I did not know until the last whether or not I could realize it by considering calories and I did not decide which line of robot to do It was. That is what I'd like to do "Mr. Osaka (Masami) -system's Mechanism", but if there is not enough staff, I will not put it in the image and it will be just a free-wheeling event. So depending on the staff that can be secured, we decided the content also. Fortunately, Enokido (Hayao) who directed eighth episode is a powerful young man, so there is a trust that "I will decide coolly", probably thinking that it will be a no mark in the animation industry, and Robo like "Supernova Flashman" I had him move it.

- By the way did you like "flash man"?

Oshiyama: When I was a child, I did scribbling all the time. Is the beginning of the squadron series in me "flash man", or just before that. So there is a robot image as a memory of the root part and the scene where flash king is scattered is burned to the mind (laugh). Also the silhouette like the Great Titan 's box has a huge impact, I wonder if I can put it out here. At the screenplay stage, such a thing did not appear at all, but I got a lot of additions at the stage of the storyboard. Actually, I also planned to insert songs three times at first, but thinking that there are too many indeed. Even though I thought that "I had ordered a number of songs like this, I had to place order number 3 ... ..." at the rest of the festival, I decided to cut down one place just before (laugh).

- You are also appearing as a voice actor in episode 5, are not you?

Oshiyama: Although this work is an illusion as one of the themes, there was a thought that the voice of a female student took into consideration of that in the voice. Even if I hear only the sound, I decided to use an illusion that he heard it as soon as he heard me tell you what he is saying, even if he does not know what he is saying. I thought that if I use the karp that I owned for the first time as a hobby I thought that I could make that strange feeling, I recorded it with my heart buck before actually casting it, but it was too interesting to process it into effect I thought I was wondering if I could do it. However, at the stage when "Furifura" is being produced, this is also a hobby happens to practice the circulatory respiration of the dojeridoo (brass instrument) (rendition style which continually keeps breathing while breathing), this can be used It became Janken (laugh). It is a feeling that I got it recorded again after the dubbing of the latter half of the times and it became the shape of the present.

- Who is your favorite character especially in this work?

Oshiyama: Every character has a hope, but fortunately it is Papika and Yayaka. Yayaka has strong humanity and is unfaithful (laugh), has a painful feeling like seeing herself and has a strong empathy. On the other hand, Papika is a kind of ideal figure. Is it innocent wonderfulness? Pureness and integrity, a girl with pure parts may be nice. Even if I become an adult I want to keep such a pure heart, I want to put value in those parts, so I long for her like that. Since the survival ability is high, you can come out for adventure anytime. It is such a character that we still have something important that we are losing, originally as an animal. Well, since memories are flying once, memories are shorter than appearance age, so there are not enough words or there are personally young parts. It may be hard to understand because it has not changed much before the impact of the accident (laugh), but it is not a stupid child at all.

- One word to viewers who are looking forward to the final story at the end.

Oshiyama: I think that this work is addicted deeply to a harasser, but for those who are not, I think that it is a work that can be caught as "I do not really understand". Since energy is necessary when trying to learn to various depths, in that sense it is arranged in the genre which is said to be "conscious high system". However, those who have not yet been viewed or people who have been abandoned on the way are not frustrated as "It is hard to see anime" in the first episode or the second episode, and if you continue looking at it "This is this You may be able to think that it might be ". Even during the winter holiday, I definitely would like you to spare time for "furihura".

# ¿ Jan 4, 2017 04:31

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

As the interview suggests, tanu's twitter is a great place to go for awesome concept art of this show. e.g.

https://twitter.com/tanu_nisesabori/status/811899505784197120

# ¿ Jan 5, 2017 01:47

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 09:46

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Huh, so apparently to finish this show on time, the director drew about 2/3rds (250 cuts) of the final episode personally, in the space of about a week.

This show is somehow crazier than Shirobako.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Jan 9, 2017

# ¿ Jan 9, 2017 10:52

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