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There ain't just one optical illusion in this show, and they tend towards the sinister:
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Oct 15, 2016 12:53
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dogsicle posted:i don't feel like anything about the scene where the villain went for her thigh seemed particularly wanted by cocona, and you also have the robot grabbing for it in ep1 (yeah that's foreshadowing, but still). i'm not particularly invested in defending or decrying the scenes, but it's the one questionable bit i can definitely see where people are coming from. I think this may depend on just how far the dream-logic of Pure Illusion goes. If it and its residents are largely shaped by the subconsciouses of those who enter it, then what we saw here wasn't just a monster getting way too up in our heroine's comfort zone on multiple levels, but Cocona going through a pretty dark stage of her sexual awakening. Her reaction on first meeting her did suggest a certain degree of repressed desire. Also, all these posts and I'm the first to mention Fist of the North Star? Shame on you all.
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Oct 21, 2016 10:22
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Space Flower posted:First post for "the sky in Flip Flappers is blue" Probably not the best example, given that (a) it often isn't, and (b) there is probably some thematic meat in the illusory world this episode being harshly divided between blue and orange.
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Oct 21, 2016 11:32
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Pavlov posted:Aw noooo I thought this wasn't going to do the dorky voyeuristic transformation scenes and drawn out ssj announce-your-move fights. This episode was very self-consciously an Anime Action Episode. I could be wrong about this, but the Precure bit felt like as much of a pastiche as the Fist of the North Star bit, a way to playfully emphasise the turbulence Cocona's going through. Everything so far suggests that the girls' transformed forms are sticking around, but hopefully they won't feel obligated to stick too hard to any sort of formula.
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Oct 21, 2016 23:52
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Torquemadras posted:This show looks ridiculously good and stylish, and I'm enjoying how gleefully nonsensical it all is! Also, the music has earworm qualities. Will continue to watch. Mind you, half the fun is that there's generally some loose, weird logic to it all, whether it be in service of character-work or just a great big dumb pun. It's not nonsense, it's just a smaller-than-average amount of unconventional sense. This was put together by a team of visual-storytelling specialists, after all.
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Oct 23, 2016 02:05
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Mokinokaro posted:Yeah I had the same thought after posting. If, as I suspect, Pure Illusion is shaped by the subconsciouses of those who enter it, then that raises the possibility of Papika being Cocona's literal dream girl. Which would explain quite a lot, really.
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Oct 26, 2016 17:26
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Spiritus Nox posted:What about the fact that Cocona met her in the real world before ever setting foot in Pure Illusion? Well, if she's been there before in her childhood, and if PI entities can leak out...
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Oct 26, 2016 17:54
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Xinder posted:As wonderful a concept as that is, I worry that if true it could lead to a very depressing ending. I guess this depends on whether Papika is really a complete person, rather than a construct built of Cocona's repressed desires (like the monster in the last episode, if this theory turns out to be true). In that case, the happier ending may be for them to not end up together, but for Cocona to make her dreams reality and pursue a relationship with an actual girl (and Yayaka sure seems interested).
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Oct 26, 2016 18:19
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Spiritus Nox posted:I dunno about that - it's still early, obviously, but I've gotten the impression that Yayaka's gonna be more of an agent of conformity, pushing for Cocona to suppress deviant desires and be like all the normies... Although I suppose they could have a redemption arc for her or something similar. The catch is, of course, that Yayaka's attempts to enforce conformity ring hollow. She's clearly more motivated by desire for Cocona than any serious regard for the rules (remember when she almost confessed something to her while blushing?), and she herself is an adventurer in the chaos of Pure Illusion. She's not just an avatar of the real world, but someone going through their own struggle, and that struggle has some pretty heavy parallels with Cocona's.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:05
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I actually think that it's not that Grandma is creepy and sinister - it's that we're in deep in Cocona's head for much of the show, and she is resentful and suspicious of her one surviving relative. Observe how what she actually says is usually nice and supportive, and how she gets less distant and unsettling when Cocona reaches out to her at the end of Episode 3.
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Oct 28, 2016 09:38
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So the enemy of the week was an oppressive setting coated in lesbian symbolism where a degree of girl-girl affection is allowed, but only within certain tight constraints, and the girls are slowly turned into a single hollow archetype forever experiencing bland, trivial pleasures in an eternal school. Good to see that our heroines have breezed past the Class S stage, I guess.
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Nov 4, 2016 17:21
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Paperhouse posted:Maybe she had some kind of crush on Yayaka before even meeting Papika? She described her relationship with Yayaka as them not exactly being friends, which at the time I took to mean they've known eachother a long time but aren't really close, but I suppose it could mean something else. I think it has a lot more to do with Yayaka's feelings than hers. Pure Illusion worlds seem to be shaped by the first person to step into them, so we had Uexkull's heroic bunny fantasy in Episode 2 and Coconna's fear, resentment, and anger about her own sexuality in Episode 3. Yayaka was there first this ep, and grim, buttoned-down, repressed sexuality fits her way better than it does our main girls.
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Nov 7, 2016 17:01
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Stallion Cabana posted:is this show cute + Cool + fun? Mostly yes to all three, but be warned that there's more than a little dark poo poo bubbling beneath the surface. That doesn't affect the quality, mind, just the content.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:51
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Looks like we have further evidence - as if we needed it - that Pure Illusion is built off the human subconscious. Also additional - though not particularly conclusive - evidence for the 'Papika is a being from Pure Illusion created by/from Cocona' theory. At the very least, if they do choose to go that way, we can now say there was foreshadowing.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:59
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Pavlov posted:The klan wants the magic rocks to take over the world right? That means PI can probably affect the real world somehow. It's possible they weren't just changing that girl's perspective of events. They might have actually rewritten history in some small way. We did already have an indication that Pure Illusion can influence the real world - injuries that the girls sustain there carry over when they come back.
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Nov 11, 2016 21:29
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Call me crazy here, you guys, but I'm starting to suspect that this show might just be a wee bit homoerotic.
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Nov 17, 2016 21:52
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Mind you, the 'Papika is a separated half of Cocona' theory does continue to gain ground. Notice how the illusion of Papika only ever lasted long enough to let Cocona step outside her boundaries and accept some aspect of herself before vanishing. The realisation of her desires even had them framed as two halves of the same person. I'm increasingly doubtful that Papika will stick around long after Cocona has fully grown into herself as a happy, adventurous, self-confident girl who's comfortable with her sexuality... although the rest of her school's female population won't know what hit them.
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Nov 18, 2016 00:23
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I totally get why the fanservice might make some folks uncomfortable, but since the entire show is a long look into the mind of a very confused and horny teenager (with another very confused and horny teenager guest-starring - hi there, Episode 5), its presence does at least make rather more sense than in other works. Like, yeah, this episode was about Cocona deciding how she felt about Papika, and realising that she feels quite a lot of different things about her. That means crossed wires ahoy. Like, yeah, you may not be cool with young girls getting sexualised, and that's fine, but for this particular show, the story of a teenage girl's sexual awakening (where she realises she's into girls) told through primarily visual storytelling, it's sort of baked into the premise, so you really have to lump it or leave it. This is the story they chose to tell.
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Nov 18, 2016 09:39
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:for real though pavlov there are like a half dozen other magical girl shows this season maybe you go and watch them if you're upset about the one that wants to really get into young lesbian sexuality ... you still haven't left him with many options there. 
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Nov 19, 2016 01:37
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Spiritus Nox posted:I mean, if you're looking for P&C (or P&Y, if the show does the lovely predictable thing and has Papika be Cocona's Persona and disappear at the end) to kiss I'm not sure it's going to happen just because of how this show eschews traditional narrative structure and relies on subtext in general. But, uh, I think the point at which Cocona literally considers banging an imagined, idealized version of Papika is the point at which the show has made its intentions explicit enough for any halfway reasonable viewer. I'm not even sure she stopped at considering. That last scene with 'em both in negligees felt pretty post-coital. And yeah, there were a lot of hints at The Gay in the early episodes, from Yayaka's behaviour around Cocona to the repeated almost-kisses and Papika's literal, repeated declarations of love (and more abstract stuff, like 'the tunnel only opens up if we feel the same way!' and how the hints that Pure Illusion was shaped by the human subconscious made the bit where Cocona encountered an evil lesbian bondage demon in the episode where she was angry at Papika extremely suspect). Hell, they even had a shot of Cocona discovering Papika surrounded by tribadism puns in Episode 4. It was just Episode 5 where it became explicit and undeniable (even if I did see a few reads of 'no, no, it was just Pure Illusion making them act gay' because Internet).
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Nov 19, 2016 09:49
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Ah, figured out what this PI world meant - just as the Class S episode was our look inside Yayaka's head, this one was Dr. Hidaka's time to shine. We already had some evidence that Bu-chan was some sort of remote avatar for him, and guess who fell through the portal first? Obviously, Cocona was filtering it through her memories of Iro, but I think that Hidaka being the main influence is a reasonable guess. That does tell us his motive in all this - he's an artist, and signed on with Salt for the aesthetic value of what he's trying to do. Actually, I wonder if the specific mechanics were the reason for the size thing - Bu-chan's Pure Illusion avatar was a smaller version of Hidaka.
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Nov 25, 2016 00:12
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Spiritus Nox posted:Oh my god I didn't catch this. This PI makes way more sense now. I also wonder if that might be the reason for it being even more gazey than is usual for the show (that cockpit rear end shot...) - we already know that Bu/Hidaka is a big ol' perv.
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Nov 25, 2016 00:21
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Space Flower posted:there's no evidence that it's not more abstract with that, especially considering how the PI reflects and influences sayuri and hidaka's relationship. There's interesting details like how she's annoyed with hidaka and how cramped his lab is, and then in the PI papilka/cocona are too big for the tiny lab. she also uses different honorifics for him before and after the latest PI They're mission control. If they have footage of what's going on, then she might have learned some interesting things about her co-worker.
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Nov 25, 2016 00:43
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The second half has not, so far, been largely comprised of our main characters getting repeatedly raped by their evil, all-powerful mother. So that's a pretty big advantage over KLK.
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Dec 1, 2016 20:15
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dogsicle posted:for an episode ostensibly about strengthening the cocona/papika relationship, i care way more about yayaka/cocona now. guess i've got 3 eps to get over that. Hey, polyamory is always an option. They're even coded to each of the three primary colours.
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Dec 2, 2016 01:39
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Sakurazuka posted:The only thing I didn't really like about this episode was how little context we had for exactly why Yayaka would go that far against someone she obviously cared about that much, other than her presumably getting kicked out of an organisation who's goals we don't even know. She didn't go against Cocona here. She went against Papika. What we saw here was an incredibly repressed person (see also, the Class S episode) letting it all pour out in a torrent of jealous rage and possessiveness.
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Dec 3, 2016 14:34
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Ranzear posted:No comment on the petite femdom cliche besides: Do please destroy it from orbit. Remember that much of what happens in Pure Illusion is shaped by the psyches of the first people to enter an area - this isn't a spoiler, per se, it's just something that you start to pick up as the show progresses. Now think about what's going on in Cocona's head that might lead her to cook up that.
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Dec 13, 2016 15:21
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Xinder posted:yeah but her mentality is totally different so there's no way she'll ever do gay things like cocona and papika. I agree. She will find her own special, unique ways to be gay.
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Dec 13, 2016 21:40
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Futaba Anzu posted:That was like every other interaction they had in the anime I think he meant their excursion to the gay tapdancing dimension. Complete with natty Fred Astaire outfits.
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Feb 5, 2017 22:16
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At least Flip Flappers told the story it wanted to tell. It's not like we lost anything from the product because it bombed.
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Jul 9, 2017 11:52
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Homura and Sickle posted:i mean it dis-incentivizes risking money on an ambitious anime original story. hopefully get more shows from its director in the future tho Well, yeah, but could've been a lot worse, is all I'm saying.
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Jul 9, 2017 22:18
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