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I'll add them to the list for consideration. I really do like the torque thrusts, I just wasnt sure if I had to have a better manufactured wheel at the higher speeds.
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Sep 8, 2018 21:29
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Just caught up on this thread and I love this project. The car looks great already. Please see it through and keep posting.
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Sep 9, 2018 05:54
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Well gently caress, now you've got the approval of Major Dick Bong, project can only get more awesome.
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Sep 9, 2018 06:15
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I'm still here! Like I said the posts will be less frequent as the problems I solve are largely financial. This post going to be a little side story and a tiny little bit little channeling Project Binkey. A month ago some friends and I ran the North Narrows checkpoint at the Silver State Classic Challenge/Nevada Open Road Challenge, like we do fairly regularly. This time I brought back some drone photos of our part of the track. This is where we normally track passing cars, look for cars out of order or missing entirely, or run out and throw up a yellow or red flag if bad poo poo happens. I feel this is kind of relevant because this race is really the impetus for me going full on moron with some of the parts of this project. (Like having essentially built a brand new 66 Chevelle from 2000s manufacture component parts  )This shot is facing North from the checkpoint.  This shot shows the checkpoint itself at the 5th wheel. The clockwise curve that leads to the checkpoint is downhill, and even though the perspective doesn't show it well, it's about a 10 foot drop off the outside of the corner if someone were to slide off the outside edge, and then there's a fair chance the car would continue through me, into the trailer and then into the desert past it. The fast cars come through that curve fast.  Here is a shot south of the checkpoint including the trailer. It was hard to get a better one because we had to bring the drone down before the race started so I couldn't avoid the shadows. The wind was high enough after the race was over I couldn't send it up again. That first left right there is a sharper than it looks and usually has people hitting the brakes pretty good when they get just past the trailer. On the rare occasions there is a wreck it's usually in the narrows right here.  This is a higher angle shot. Where the road cuts through the hill at the top of the frame is the end of the narrows, after that is more or less about 7 miles of straight road to the finish, starting with about a third of a mile down slope. Working the south narrows checkpoint at that end you can really tell how much someone is trying to make up time by how they come out like a bat out of hell or more mellow if they are good on time.  The fastest cars do the whole 90 mile course in course in the low 20 minutes with the top speed I've seen average a hair over 219 for the whole course. Back to my Chevelle, the idea of hiding the cage in the structure is right out. The A pillars don't even come close to hiding a 1.5 inch tube. They are tiny and want to kill me. So, I wanted to get an idea of how visible a roll cage would be, and how much I could tuck it into the roof and so on. Having some time on my hands, and just (re)watched some Binkey, I decided to place an order with OfficeMax. They sell this:  It has a 1.5 inch outer diameter, the smallest OD that qualifies for the race with my car weight. I figure I'll spend some time over the next few weeks and make myself a mockup to see how it looks for the hell of it. They are thicker than I thought it would be so I need something that will cut it so I can simulate bends. An exacto knife isn't likely to do the trick here. I'll likely need something closer to a saw. Like always, advice and suggestions are appreciated! BitBasher fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 04:33
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CAD!  So what you're saying is you're going to do that balls out 20 mile drag race?
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Oct 17, 2018 12:35
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Olympic Mathlete posted:CAD! Cardboard Assisted Drafting? I have Autodesk fusion 360 but that doesn't really let me see what it will look like when I'm sitting in it. And I have a lot of time to kill right now. Also there's the problem of not having a really accurate model of the Chevelle to work with. All the 3d models I could find to buy weren't exactly right, especially the interior was tossed in as an afterthought, if at all. My division would be more like a 90 mile leisurely cruse averaging up to 140 with a max trap of up to 165 if I can work out a roll bar / cage. 20 miles balls out is iffy with a car with the frictional coefficient of a VW bus, because of which whose front wheels tend to lose steering authority in the low to medium 100s!
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Oct 17, 2018 16:16
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BitBasher posted:20 miles balls out is iffy with a car with the frictional coefficient of a VW bus, because of which whose front wheels tend to lose steering authority in the low to medium 100s! Cow catchers solve that.
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Oct 17, 2018 16:27
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BitBasher posted:Cardboard Assisted Drafting? Cardboard Aided Design, aye! And I feel like you need to get friendly with a university engineering department, a friend of mine has access to all sorts of toys through his work. I'm yet to take him up on his offers of scanning/3D printing because I have no idea what to use it all for
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Oct 17, 2018 16:40
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Olympic Mathlete posted:Cardboard Aided Design, aye! Why wouldn't you want a tiny copy of your exact car?
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Oct 17, 2018 16:43
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cakesmith handyman posted:Why wouldn't you want a tiny copy of your exact car? ...because it currently has large holes in the bodywork which I removed with an angle grinder! But that's a drat fine idea!
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Oct 17, 2018 16:45
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I really wish I had a model of every car I've ever owned, I'd be even happier if they were exact-including-damage-and-primer.
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Oct 17, 2018 17:17
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Olympic Mathlete posted:Cardboard Aided Design, aye! I looked around at 3d scanners after you mentioned this but they only seem to be for small handheld objects...
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Oct 18, 2018 04:11
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It can be done, and you don't even need expensive equipment. Photogrammetry has gotten REALLY good.
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Oct 18, 2018 09:06
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KillHour posted:It can be done, and you don't even need expensive equipment. Photogrammetry has gotten REALLY good. Can you point me toward links or information? how would I go about getting a dash (which can possible be removed to scan) or interior of a car into Autodesk Fusion 360?
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Oct 18, 2018 16:30
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I was googling it a few weeks ago and 3d scanning now means you just take a shitload of pictures with your phone camera of the object from different angles, and dump them in to software. The software (photogrammetry) takes all the different perspectives and plots matching points relative to each other to convert the 2d images into a 3d map, it's really loving cool. It's like stereoscopic pictures, how your brain can interpret two pictures as 3d due to the two separate vantage points. Except the software has like 50-100 eyes and vantage points that it can use to 3d map the object.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:36
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BitBasher posted:It has a 1.5 inch outer diameter, the smallest OD that qualifies for the race with my car weight. I figure I'll spend some time over the next few weeks and make myself a mockup to see how it looks for the hell of it. They are thicker than I thought it would be so I need something that will cut it so I can simulate bends. An exacto knife isn't likely to do the trick here. I'll likely need something closer to a saw. Not nearly as exciting as photogrammetry (seems like this could one of the actual, legit uses of augmented reality, or at least a lot more legit than poking mongo), buuuuut this site could prove useful: https://www.blocklayer.com/pipe-notchingeng.aspx Print, wrap, tape, then cut along the line. 
glyph fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Oct 19, 2018 |
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Oct 19, 2018 18:23
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glyph posted:Not nearly as exciting as photogrammetry (seems like this could one of the actual, legit uses of augmented reality, or at least a lot more legit than poking mongo), buuuuut this site could prove useful: Oh man, this is great! It sure beats trial and error! Thanks! Also, I picked up a cheap reciprocating saw to cut the tubes with, let's hope it holds out, it was 27 bucks at Harbor Freight, and I haven't heard a lot of good things about their power tools. Fortunately this shouldn't be a demanding job.
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Oct 20, 2018 07:33
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The reciprocating saw is poo poo for making accurate cuts because the pipe is too light to really be held by a bench vise and light enough the saw knocks it all over otherwise. I guess Ill try a dremel.
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Oct 20, 2018 22:55
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I think Lancia used those exact tubes in rally cars.
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Oct 20, 2018 23:27
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Elephanthead posted:I think Lancia used those exact tubes in rally cars. Well, it would help keep the weight down!
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Oct 21, 2018 00:44
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Hoop there it is! (I'm so sorry) With bonus bacon duct tape. All 5 straight pieces are built as sleeves so they can adjust in length. Ill mess around with it in the car tomorrow but the dimensions are somewhat in the ballpark. I will need a horizontal bar and a diagonal bar from the top of the drivers side to the bottom of the passenger's side. All of that will happen after I finalize the dimensions. Then I start on the rear hoops and rest of a cage for the hell of it. I also just realize that roll bars can be bolt in and removable according to SSCC rules, which changes a lot.
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Oct 23, 2018 07:04
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BitBasher posted:(I'm so sorry) No you're fuckin not 
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Oct 26, 2018 16:39
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Relevant: BaT Auction: Ex-Silver State 1971 Chevrolet Camaro RS https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-chevrolet-camaro-8/
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Dec 5, 2018 02:44
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haven’t followed this thread in a while but it’s cool as hell and im glad its still here and the car is still coming along has anyone come up with a better vanity plate than 66CPILR yet
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Dec 19, 2018 10:38
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Fender Anarchist posted:Well gently caress, now you've got the approval of Major Dick Bong, project can only get more awesome. from beyond the grave no less, dang
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Dec 20, 2018 17:10
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IOwnCalculus posted:Relevant: BaT Auction: Ex-Silver State 1971 Chevrolet Camaro RS https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-chevrolet-camaro-8/ That's awesome. I saw another one go like a year ago. A 66 Chevelle built as a homage so the Smokey Yunick NASCAR and done accurately to period NASCAR specs went for like 25k ready to go. It was gorgeous. OMGVBFLOL posted:haven’t followed this thread in a while but it’s cool as hell and im glad its still here and the car is still coming along It's still coming along but we are in for a long hard Binkey style winter. Also I keep buying other poo poo, like a 3d printer and Christmas stuff. It is moving though, credit cards are on target to be gone by April or so. Also Red Dead came out and I've been hitting that like a crack pipe. Still not done. This game has some legs to it.
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Dec 21, 2018 21:08
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How are things going? This should be one for the ages, shame to lose it to the archives.
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May 6, 2019 03:12
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Things go slowly. This is the disadvantage of being in the fiscally heavy part of a long project. Paying off and saving. It doesn't help that I started traveling more, but there is still forward progress it's just in the form of a balance sheet numbers moving. Things take a while when I'm saving for a chassis that costs way too much money. I also decided to try photogrammetry to get a 3d model of the dash out so I could start up with some interior layout ideas for the console and transfer panel that needs to be added to the original dash core. In order to do this I really need an overcast sky and here in Vegas the weather has not been cooperating. it hasn't been overcast but not raining when I've been home in the last couple months. Instead I have an appointment to use a studio that can provide diffused lighting and I'll do it indoors sometime in the next few weeks. I really want a 3d model of the whole car interior but we will see how that goes. I am doing some basic 3d from scratch after I bought a 3d printer a few months back, so I could do a basic version for layout purposes but I don't know how to get decent measurements of that floor pan which is a pretty complex shape. Aside from that I've just been making lists of parts to pick up including some fancy pedals to match the hood hinges. I have an email out to see if they will sell the set in brushed or bare aluminum. I need the top pedal support bracket that set comes with anyway. I'm also considering something like this for the steering wheel. None of this I thought was remotely enough to warrant an update until I had a 3d mesh of something to look at. BitBasher fucked around with this message at 17:42 on May 17, 2019 |
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May 17, 2019 17:19
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dare i ask how much that chassis is? 30k? 40?
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May 17, 2019 21:46
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OMGVBFLOL posted:dare i ask how much that chassis is? 30k? 40? the Roadstershop Fast Track Chassis as I want it would come with the Baer Pro+ 14 inch disks front and rear (with stainless brake lines), independent rear suspension with the parking brake kit and rear sway bar, Wavetrac differential with all drive train components beefier to take up to 1200 hp and custom headers and oil pan for the LS to fit right (engine not included) all in all will run between 39k and 42k depending on the options like double or triple adjustable coilovers or the default coilovers. It's pretty much a full rolling chassis. It's by a good ways the single most expensive part of the rest of the car. After the chassis progress on this project should go a lot faster. Not fast, but faster. BitBasher fucked around with this message at 22:33 on May 17, 2019 |
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May 17, 2019 22:27
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Speaking as a suspension snob... don't bother with triple adjustable shocks unless you're racing and have a data acquisition system with wheel position sensors at 1khz or so, basically nobody in the real world can actually take advantage of triples by feel. Even double adjustables are a bit much but maybe. At the level of Penskes and stuff, it's not a "twist knob to bias between road or track" it should be, once you get stuff set up, one setting that just plain works. If whoever is speccing the shocks knows what they're doing they should just work; you'll twiddle the knob(s) for a little fine tuning maybe and then basically just leave it.
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May 18, 2019 16:19
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That is a lot of money at once but for what you get its probably cheaper to do all that at once than piecemeal over years. Thats quite the package deal where you can just spec out an engine and trans that the chassis will handle. No breaking a million driveshafts before you figure out the right one, torching the brakes and upgrading, etc. Looking forward to that update, thats gonna be awesome.
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May 18, 2019 16:30
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mekilljoydammit posted:Speaking as a suspension snob... don't bother with triple adjustable shocks unless you're racing and have a data acquisition system with wheel position sensors at 1khz or so, basically nobody in the real world can actually take advantage of triples by feel. Even double adjustables are a bit much but maybe. At the level of Penskes and stuff, it's not a "twist knob to bias between road or track" it should be, once you get stuff set up, one setting that just plain works. If whoever is speccing the shocks knows what they're doing they should just work; you'll twiddle the knob(s) for a little fine tuning maybe and then basically just leave it. Yeah, the suspension is a complete black hole for me. I was actually planning on building in shock loading sensors, but not the 2k per tire ones that go under the shock mounts, something cheaper. I want them pretty much to detect how much weight or distance is unloading at higher speeds so I have a picture of steering authority loss from the front end coming up before I die horribly because it isn't there. This isn't a car that's going to do speed without me having the data available to not kill myself with it and I know at the very least it will have front end aero issues that need to be solved. May as well do all 4 wheels at the same time and I can measure body toll and front end dip while braking along with the front end lifting up at speed. It's all just math and it's not really hard to set up when I'm putting it all together. It won't be 1khz but it should give me useable data. That said, supposedly the setup as it comes it said to be excellent, so we will see. One review I found said with summer tires, not slicks, the 66 Chevelle on this setup could sustain .98g on a skid pad.
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May 18, 2019 18:27
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Low frequency to do stuff like that is easy enough - honestly I'd look at wheel position as it's just easier. Think something like a quartet of Delphi ER10031 levelling sensors - for the most part load corresponds pretty closely to suspension position. Doing it at a couple hertz will let you see stuff you're looking for. The trick with shock tuning is you have to run a high enough sample rate where the derivatives (to get shock velocity) are accurate, and then do stuff with that data. It's non-trivial and if you're not passionate about it, I wouldn't dig that far into things.
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May 18, 2019 21:00
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BitBasher posted:I want them pretty much to detect how much weight or distance is unloading at higher speeds so I have a picture of steering authority loss from the front end coming up before I die horribly because it isn't there. This isn't a car that's going to do speed without me having the data available to not kill myself with it and I know at the very least it will have front end aero issues that need to be solved. that's reassuring. i remember doing like a triple-take at how fast you said you wanted to go in this car lol
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May 18, 2019 21:11
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mekilljoydammit posted:Low frequency to do stuff like that is easy enough - honestly I'd look at wheel position as it's just easier. Think something like a quartet of Delphi ER10031 levelling sensors - for the most part load corresponds pretty closely to suspension position. Doing it at a couple hertz will let you see stuff you're looking for. Shouldn't shock movement be a function of harmonics? In theory, you should be able to deduce the movement of the suspension with Nyquist sampling instead of derivatives. I know more about math than suspensions, so this could be totally wrong. Edit: http://www.naun.org/main/UPress/saed/f052014-125.pdf KillHour fucked around with this message at 21:25 on May 18, 2019 |
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May 18, 2019 21:21
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KillHour posted:Shouldn't shock movement be a function of harmonics? In theory, you should be able to deduce the movement of the suspension with Nyquist sampling instead of derivatives. Interesting thought. If the resonance of the system didn’t change at various piston positions / oil temperatures, I suspect this could work. I don’t think either of those things is true though, so the challenge would be gathering enough data to graph a reasonably accurate resonance curve and then having an understanding of what effect that actually has on the handling characteristics of the specific car. I think what I’m reading as your underlying idea is true: shock absorber / spring systems can be thought of as complex low-pass filters in both force and frequency dimensions. Hmm. Interesting. 
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May 18, 2019 22:04
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Disclaimer: I am not responsible if this conversation causes you to smash into a highway barrier at 200mph. Namaste.
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May 18, 2019 22:18
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KillHour posted:Shouldn't shock movement be a function of harmonics? In theory, you should be able to deduce the movement of the suspension with Nyquist sampling instead of derivatives. From the experimental methodology of that paper, I literally have no idea what they're trying to do. Automotive dampers aren't really frequency dependent (usually, there's valve systems that do that but they're uncommon). They have a series of valves that, in one mechanism or another, vary their orifice size based on pressure. What this produces, as measured on conventional testing equipment, is force produced at a given damper shaft velocity, and it's usually not the same depending on what direction the shock piston is moving. In the real life the system isn't excited at any specific frequency. Road disturbances are at high frequencies but those are damped to some degree by the tire, handling movement are low frequency and how much mass is being damped depends on extension vs compression.
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May 18, 2019 22:42
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OMGVBFLOL posted:that's reassuring. i remember doing like a triple-take at how fast you said you wanted to go in this car lol The stupidity of my speed goal is not lost on me! I'm not just going to redneck it to get there. I have a plan! mekilljoydammit posted:Low frequency to do stuff like that is easy enough - honestly I'd look at wheel position as it's just easier. Think something like a quartet of Delphi ER10031 levelling sensors - for the most part load corresponds pretty closely to suspension position. Doing it at a couple hertz will let you see stuff you're looking for. That's actually what I was planning to do. Measure the weight on each of the front tires while unloading the shocks with a floor jack in the center and get a rough measurement of how much the suspension rises for each X number of pounds taken off from the low pressure area lifting the front of the car. It should be failr inexpensive to either use some kind of linear sensor of some flavor to provide me info in real time of how much the shocks are compressed or extended. The refresh rate shouldn't be critical because I don't think I'm looking for events happening in fractions of a second. The spring unloading won't likely be linear because of the way the springs unload but I can make a chart close enough to tell me roughly how hosed I am at any given distance which I can use to display a readout of roughly how much weight is on the tires at any given time compared to when parked. I can use that to make iterations of an air dam and hopefully solve the problem outright. After that it's all academic and just sexy cool dash display stuff. KillHour posted:Disclaimer: I am not responsible if this conversation causes you to smash into a highway barrier at 200mph. Namaste. No worries, I literally have no idea what you are talking about! EDIT: I kind of do but that's not the way I'm going with it. I'm keeping it as simple as possible. BitBasher fucked around with this message at 23:09 on May 18, 2019 |
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May 18, 2019 22:42
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