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dismissing and hand-waving evidence showing a clear pattern of rigging concludes it wouldn't have mattered, because Bernie wasn't going to win even without all the rigging just dismissed
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Oct 10, 2016 19:37
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Chilichimp posted:dismissing and hand-waving evidence showing a clear pattern of rigging Sorry, no clear pattern of rigging has been demonstrated. The person I quoted alleged as actors: 1) New York State 2) The Republican government of Arizona 3) Bill Clinton 4) and The Media All with no actual evidence of collusion or malfeasance, just hurt feelings and a vague sense of being ill done by. Sorry, try again next time. Marlows posted:Look, Bernie's more than alright. He did better than most thought he would against Clinton. But he was never going to win because of his limited coalition of support. Sorry. Also, this. It's demographics, always has been, always will be.
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Oct 10, 2016 19:39
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What the hell is a 'bigly', anyways? I think I glanced sway from my screen at just the right (wrong?) moment, because I think I missed that part and I'm really confused.
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Oct 10, 2016 19:43
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Quorum posted:Sorry, no clear pattern of rigging has been demonstrated. The person I quoted alleged as actors: The state of New York doesn't control Democrat party primary elections. The party does. The Republican government of Arizona doesn't control Democrat party primary elections. The party does. Did or did not Bill Clinton show up at a polling place? The Media bias for Hilary is demonstrable and you're hand-waving it away reflexively because you're alright with the result. These 4 things he listed aren't the only 4 things to be considered, and your attempt to shoot them down was pretty fuckin' weak. There's plenty of evidence to support this theory, and it's your god drat problem, no mine, if you want to ignore it all because lolbernie.
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Oct 10, 2016 19:46
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Chilichimp posted:The state of New York doesn't control Democrat party primary elections. The party does. The Democrat party doesn't exist.
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Oct 10, 2016 19:48
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Marlows posted:Look, Bernie's more than alright. He did better than most thought he would against Clinton. But he was never going to win because of his limited coalition of support. Sorry. Yeah, pretty much. Also good points on Exit polls and on the Arizona situation.
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Oct 10, 2016 19:51
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computer parts posted:The Democrat party doesn't exist. melts slowly into a puddle "oh noooooo, I am defeeeeeeeated"
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Oct 10, 2016 19:51
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NewForumSoftware posted:It's really hard to believe this when we had a blue congress, senate, and presidency and got Obamacare. Well, you have to remember the mantra at the time. Dems wanted to "cross the aisle" and "work with reps" while Republicans just wanted to block, bully, and destroy everything because democrats were pushing it.
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Oct 10, 2016 19:53
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Chilichimp posted:The state of New York doesn't control Democrat party primary elections. The party does. The state of New York sets registration deadlines, which is what is being alleged here. Remember, primary elections are administered by the state, not by the party. You know what's controlled directly by the party, able to be rigged freely without fear or favor or oversight? That's right. Caucuses. quote:The Republican government of Arizona doesn't control Democrat party primary elections. The party does. See above. The Democratic Party does not set or alter polling places in Arizona. Arizona does. quote:Did or did not Bill Clinton show up at a polling place? Is this the goalpost now? Yes, Bill Clinton showed up at a polling places, this was not in line with election law and he got slapped on the hand for doing so, but you're gonna have to provide some evidence there was any measurable impact on the election, or that it was a deliberate attempt to gently caress over voters in a Hillary-favorable district rather than a guy overenthusiastically charging into a place and getting closer to the polls than allowed. quote:The Media bias for Hilary is demonstrable and you're hand-waving it away reflexively because you're alright with the result.  ok fine my dudequote:These 4 things he listed aren't the only 4 things to be considered, and your attempt to shoot them down was pretty fuckin' weak. There's plenty of evidence to support this theory, and it's your god drat problem, no mine, if you want to ignore it all because lolbernie. Actually, willfully believing false things because they make you feel better about the fact that you lost is your problem, not mine.
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Oct 10, 2016 19:56
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Quorum posted:The state of New York sets registration deadlines, which is what is being alleged here. Remember, primary elections are administered by the state, not by the party. You know what's controlled directly by the party, able to be rigged freely without fear or favor or oversight? cool, can we end this derail?
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Oct 10, 2016 20:03
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Chilichimp posted:cool, can we end this derail? Happy to; as far as I'm concerned, this controversy is and should be long dead. But on the other hand, so is this thread, given that its subject is over, so...
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Oct 10, 2016 20:05
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Then lets end on a strong note.
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Oct 10, 2016 20:14
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NewForumSoftware posted:It's really hard to believe this when we had a blue congress, senate, and presidency and got Obamacare. The Blue Dogs got their asses handed to them in 2010. They are no longer a going concern. No one remembers who Joe Lieberman is except for like a dozen or so people including myself who are under the effects of a curse. If the Democrats control the government after this election (i.e. if they take the House) we'll get single-payer - count on it.
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Oct 10, 2016 20:15
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Can we get back to defeating Actual Literal Hitler and his army of 2nd Amendment Racists?
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Oct 10, 2016 20:23
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Kilroy posted:The Democratic party of 2008 was considerably more centrist than now, to the point that the center of gravity of the party has probably shifted left of the sitting President, whereas the party was to the right of Obama when he was elected. Eh, I'd say we might get a public option but not full single payer.
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Oct 10, 2016 22:36
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Trump kept smooth, Hillary was literally shaking at times, especially at the 4 women she ridiculed including the 12 year old. HIllary was visibly destroyed by his viciousness yet calmness. Hillary was shown to be very short in this debate compared to Trump aswell, which is a high point in American political choices. Presidents are supposed to be tall unfortunately for hitlery.
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Oct 10, 2016 22:48
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:What the hell is a 'bigly', anyways? I think I glanced sway from my screen at just the right (wrong?) moment, because I think I missed that part and I'm really confused.
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Oct 10, 2016 23:14
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Chilichimp posted:Yes, but is there something specific in Trump supporters that would make huge swathes of them prone to support him, but not openly? Why wouldn't there be just as large a number of obfuscated Clinton supporters? They are lockstep Republican voters who may not care for Trump but he has the letter R by his name, so for the sake of unborn babies they have to vote for him.
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Oct 10, 2016 23:17
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Samurai Sanders posted:In the first debate he seemed to say that, but I still think he just said "big league" quickly. He isn't GWB after all. Yeah but saying "we're winning BIG LEAGUE" is only marginally less ridiculous than "bigly". Having said that I do think that's what he's saying.
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Oct 10, 2016 23:22
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I like how Clinton is so far ahead that we have to make up entire demographics of hypothetical voters to properly Arzy.
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Oct 10, 2016 23:22
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IMJack posted:They are lockstep Republican voters who may not care for Trump but he has the letter R by his name, so for the sake of unborn babies they have to vote for him. This is the real reason Utah will always be red. Abortion is the only issue that matters.
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Oct 10, 2016 23:31
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Samurai Sanders posted:In the first debate he seemed to say that, but I still think he just said "big league" quickly. He isn't GWB after all. He literally said bigly this time for sure though. I forget what the context was since it was around 4 am for me
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Oct 11, 2016 00:58
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Kilroy posted:The Democratic party of 2008 was considerably more centrist than now, to the point that the center of gravity of the party has probably shifted left of the sitting President, whereas the party was to the right of Obama when he was elected. You're honestly delusional. The party that just primaried out Alan Grayson for Patrick Murphy and chose Hillary Clinton to be the third term of Obama hasn't shifted left. There's no chance of single-payer. Remember that Obama pulled public option off the table in July 2009 for $155 billion in payment reductions over ten years from hospitals and lied about it for months afterwards. Third way democrats will never ever pass universal health care. Doesn't matter how many of them are in office. Their corporate owners won't allow it. Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Oct 11, 2016 |
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Oct 11, 2016 01:17
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Call Me Charlie posted:The party that just primaried out Alan Grayson for Patrick Murphy and chose Hillary Clinton to be the third term of Obama hasn't shifted left. Alan Grayson got primaried out because he beat his wife, not because he was too liberal.
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Oct 11, 2016 01:21
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Call Me Charlie posted:You're honestly delusional. The party that just primaried out Alan Grayson for Patrick Murphy and chose Hillary Clinton to be the third term of Obama hasn't shifted left. There's no chance of single-payer. Remember that Obama pulled public option off the table in July 2009 for $155 billion in payment reductions over ten years from hospitals and lied about it for months afterwards. The platform is far more left then it ever has been before, sorry it's not FULL COMMUNISM NOW but we are making remarkable progress in the right direction.
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Oct 11, 2016 01:24
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Pakled posted:Alan Grayson got primaried out because he beat his wife, not because he was too liberal. Keep telling yourself that.
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Oct 11, 2016 01:25
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Eugene V. Dabs posted:Eh, I'd say we might get a public option but not full single payer. Relevant to that, a public option is in the 2016 party platform: quote:Democrats believe that health care is a right, not a privilege, and our health care system should put people before profits. Thanks to the hard work of President Obama and Democrats in Congress, we took a critically important step toward the goal of universal health care by passing the Affordable Care Act, which has covered 20 million more Americans and ensured millions more will never be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition. Democrats will never falter in our generations-long fight to guarantee health care as a fundamental right for every American. As part of that guarantee, Americans should be able to access public coverage through a public option, and those over 55 should be able to opt in to Medicare. Democrats will empower the states, which are the true laboratories of democracy, to use innovation waivers under the ACA to develop unique locally tailored approaches to health coverage. This will include removing barriers to states which seek to experiment with plans to ensure universal health care to every person in their state. By contrast, Donald Trump wants to repeal the ACA, leaving tens of millions of Americans without coverage.
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Oct 11, 2016 01:27
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LeoMarr posted:Trump kept smooth, Hillary was literally shaking at times, especially at the 4 women she ridiculed including the 12 year old. HIllary was visibly destroyed by his viciousness yet calmness. Hillary was shown to be very short in this debate compared to Trump aswell, which is a high point in American political choices. Presidents are supposed to be tall unfortunately for hitlery. I have no idea what you actually watched. Also lol hitlery.
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Oct 11, 2016 01:28
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Tbf in the first half of the debate Trump was on the offensive, desperately trying to deflect from the tapes, which may have stalled Clinton for a bit (having to apologize again for the emails etc.) Trump's debate performance was good enough for the Trump supporters to believe he won the debate, but bad enough for the rest of us to see Trump for the petulant child that he is. This may end up causing the Trump supporters to feel confident enough to sabotage the GOPe who are trying to cling on to their future careers.
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Oct 11, 2016 01:36
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Call Me Charlie posted:You're honestly delusional. The party that just primaried out Alan Grayson for Patrick Murphy and chose Hillary Clinton to be the third term of Obama hasn't shifted left. The people spoke in the primary, and almost all the nonwhite ones told Bernie to get hosed. Boo hoo.
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Oct 11, 2016 01:38
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NewForumSoftware posted:It's really hard to believe this when we had a blue congress, senate, and presidency and got Obamacare. The democratic party is a centrist party; their goal has typically been to poach moderates from the GOP - the whole third-way, triangulation stuff. What I meant in my post was that there definitely won't be a progressive agenda passed with the GOP in control of congress, while some progressive items may see the light of day if congress was blue.
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Oct 11, 2016 01:46
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punk rebel ecks posted:I agree for the most part. The primaries really were pointless. That said, gerrymandering is NOT the main culprit, but the lack of proportional voting for the House is. I can go into more detail when I get off work if you would like me to. I've also seen that said a few times. Proportional representation would make a big difference.
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Oct 11, 2016 01:47
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Call Me Charlie posted:You're honestly delusional. The party that just primaried out Alan Grayson for Patrick Murphy and chose Hillary Clinton to be the third term of Obama hasn't shifted left. There's no chance of single-payer. Remember that Obama pulled public option off the table in July 2009 for $155 billion in payment reductions over ten years from hospitals and lied about it for months afterwards. So are you still voting for Trump just because he's "something different" or did the sexual assault finally turn you off?
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Oct 11, 2016 05:34
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Donkwich posted:Tbf in the first half of the debate Trump was on the offensive, desperately trying to deflect from the tapes, which may have stalled Clinton for a bit (having to apologize again for the emails etc.) Has she ever apologized for destroying the emails? I noticed in the debate she apologized once again for using a private server, but said nothing about destroying evidence. I suppose I could have missed this in the past, but she always seems to craft her apology to acknowledge her use of a private server but deflect from destroying it afterward.
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Oct 11, 2016 05:54
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J Corp posted:Has she ever apologized for destroying the emails? I noticed in the debate she apologized once again for using a private server, but said nothing about destroying evidence. She denied that it had happened actually. Then was attacked by the crowd.
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Oct 11, 2016 06:04
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Eugene V. Dabs posted:Eh, I'd say we might get a public option but not full single payer.
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Oct 11, 2016 06:22
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LeoMarr posted:She denied that it had happened actually. Then was attacked by the crowd. Yeah, that was wild. I was surprised that Ken Bone brought javelins to the debate, but I'm glad Hillary dodged in time.
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Oct 11, 2016 06:27
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Call Me Charlie posted:You're honestly delusional. The party that just primaried out Alan Grayson for Patrick Murphy and chose Hillary Clinton to be the third term of Obama hasn't shifted left. There's no chance of single-payer. Remember that Obama pulled public option off the table in July 2009 for $155 billion in payment reductions over ten years from hospitals and lied about it for months afterwards. Lets have a quick history lesson! It is 2009. Obama has just been sworn in during one of the biggest economic recessions this country has ever seen, the worse since the great depression. The democrats have control of the house, but they only have exactly 60 seats in the senate, the exact amount needed to achieve the supermajority required to get past a GOP filibuster. There were 2 problems: Several of the members of congress were conservative "blue dogs" who wouldn't vote for any truly progressive policies(such as single payer!). The second problem was that 2 democratic senators were in the process of dying, including Ted Kennedy, a long time proponent of healthcare reform. The democrats had very little time in which to pass anything, and in addition to healthcare reform they also needed to pass the actually much more important bills that would help the economy start to recover. In the end the number of sitting days during 2009 that the democrats could override a filibuster could be counted on both hands with fingers to spare. Then in August 2009, a mere 7-8 months after Obama was sworn into office, Ted Kennedy passed away, and the GOP governor of Massachusetts appointed a republican as his replacement, ending the Democratic supermajority and ensuring gridlock for the rest of Obama's term. Obama didn't have the time to dick around with trying to convince the blue dogs to support a bill that included single payer or a public option. You say that Obama pulled the public option off in July. I'd say that is pretty drat good timing, because a month later Ted Kennedy died and nothing could have been passed.
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Oct 11, 2016 06:46
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I get thousands of spam emails, deleting 33k personal And spam sounds resonable
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Oct 11, 2016 06:47
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JFairfax posted:I get thousands of spam emails, deleting 33k personal And spam sounds resonable Ah, but you aren't Satan incarnate, capable of fixing elections with a wave of your hand, murderer of millions, including personally killing the 4 at Benghazi. You don't run a vast multinational criminal organization that pretends to be a charity organization and has even fooled all those dumb charity grading sites. Those 33k emails were discussions of the best way to cook aborted babies for dinner.
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Oct 11, 2016 06:54
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