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Aleth posted:What MMO does, really? As much as they might cry about it MMOs have long since stopped bothering to cater to the 'hardcore' raiders because it's not worth it to spend time and money on poo poo that a tiny minority of players will bother with until they get bored and move on/whine about. Much better financially and easier to pander to the 'casual' crowd who will drop the occasional Some of us were permanently scarred by Everquest raiding, ok?!
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Oct 18, 2016 21:24
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on vanity poo poo/gamble boxes, I would have thought.
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What was it about Everquest? I never played it but heard stories. Was it just one of the first MMO's that everyone got addicted to before they found out that Raiding was crap? Or because I don't know, I will never know? My first "MMO" Was Motor City Online followed by Free Shard playing UO at the time. MCO was a ton of fun until they killed it, and UP got better/worse depending on the Shard you were on, but I never could figure out if there was a Quest system or was everything just free roam to do what you want and kill whatever looked mean. :/ I was bad at MMO's back then, possibly I can blame it on being stuck on Dialup until like 2003. On the new changes possibly coming, is the RNG not able to take into account what Gear you already have and just drop parts that you don't already have? Or is that too Common Sense for MMO devs and they want you to grind for grind sake, and when you melt down a part its only worth like 1/4 of the part you actually need, (or the same part if you were to recreate it for whatever reason.)?
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Oct 18, 2016 21:54
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Aleth posted:What MMO does, really? As much as they might cry about it MMOs have long since stopped bothering to cater to the 'hardcore' raiders because it's not worth it to spend time and money on poo poo that a tiny minority of players will bother with until they get bored and move on/whine about. Much better financially and easier to pander to the 'casual' crowd who will drop the occasional Both WoW and FF14 still have challenging raid content. Mythic raids and Savage raids respectively are hard yo.
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Oct 18, 2016 21:54
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As someone who raids two to three times a week and has seen no progression or loot or anything in nearly a year, and no new raids in two years, this change sounds pretty loving neat actually. Killing raid bosses will net you exp, even if you don't clear the raid. Levelling up nets you crates with gear and cosmetics and poo poo. So even if you're not killing the final boss, you're still progressing and getting something for working at it. It's good! I like it!
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Oct 18, 2016 22:37
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Aleth posted:What MMO does, really? As much as they might cry about it MMOs have long since stopped bothering to cater to the 'hardcore' raiders because it's not worth it to spend time and money on poo poo that a tiny minority of players will bother with until they get bored and move on/whine about. Much better financially and easier to pander to the 'casual' crowd who will drop the occasional Games like WoW haven't stopped catering to hardcore raiders they've just stopped catering to hardcore raiders exclusively. RNG makes me  but I wouldn't be playing MMO's if I didn't enjoy a meaty grind and Galactic Command sounds grindtastic. RNG makes me remember raiding Molten Core for months praying the other Binding dropped...but then it did and it was the greatest thing ever.
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Oct 18, 2016 22:39
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EdEddnEddy posted:What was it about Everquest? I never played it but heard stories. Was it just one of the first MMO's that everyone got addicted to before they found out that Raiding was crap? Or because I don't know, I will never know? First question - EverQuest raiding was a beast. In the earliest days, there was no such thing as "raid groups" so you had groups of 6 working together to take out major kills - like 40+ people. So, you clear your way to the dragon, and you happen to die. Every time you die, you lose XP AND you reappear wherever you were "bound" which could be an HOUR away, and have to make it back to your corpse completely naked. Most of the time a cleric could ressurect you which would bring you right back to your corpse and restore some of the lost XP - assuming your entire raid group didn't die. If they did, then it sometimes took hours to get everyone back to where they could make another attempt at the boss. And hey, if you were raiding in Plane of Fear at level 47, and you died and lost a level going down to 46, you couldn't even go back in to get your corpse! So the boss is dead, now whichever group happened to get the killing blow is the one that was able to loot the boss - and you had to trust that they were being honest with what gear the boss dropped, because in the early days, it didn't even tell you what was looted. GOOD TIMES. To answer your second question, the reason people are so sour about this new gear system is yes, there is a very good chance you can get a duplicate piece of armor, and there's ALSO a good chance that you'll get a piece of armor that isn't for your discipline. Example - you are a Juggernaut tank, and need 1 more piece to complete your set bonus. Even if it's just armor in the box (not taking into account relics and implants), you have just as good a chance of rolling that tank armor piece you need as you do as getting a DPS set piece. GOOD TIMES.
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Oct 18, 2016 22:40
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Medullah posted:First question - EverQuest raiding was a beast. In the earliest days, there was no such thing as "raid groups" so you had groups of 6 working together to take out major kills - like 40+ people. So, you clear your way to the dragon, and you happen to die. Every time you die, you lose XP AND you reappear wherever you were "bound" which could be an HOUR away, and have to make it back to your corpse completely naked. Most of the time a cleric could ressurect you which would bring you right back to your corpse and restore some of the lost XP - assuming your entire raid group didn't die. If they did, then it sometimes took hours to get everyone back to where they could make another attempt at the boss. And hey, if you were raiding in Plane of Fear at level 47, and you died and lost a level going down to 46, you couldn't even go back in to get your corpse! It took for-friggin-ever to level too. I was the 2nd or 3rd Druid to hit 50 on bristlebane and I feel like I had some astronomical amount of /played time. Like a couple weeks of in game time.
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Oct 18, 2016 23:47
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Jeeze, while harse, that actually sounds sort of more "rewarding" when things all come together... Also while having 40+ fight a single boss sounds pretty cool actually, (What other games have it like that over the current instanced style for single groups now? Besides EVE) And how the hell did that work back in the early days of 56K/DSL/ISDN/Cable Bastard in a low pop neighborhood? Isn't Everquest still played? Or is it only a shadow of its former self?
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Oct 18, 2016 23:54
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I know WoW had 40-man raids up to... Burning Crusade or Lich King? Whichever had Naxxramas. And as far as Everquest goes, it apparently still has dedicated cult of players. Enough to keep going at least.
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Oct 19, 2016 00:01
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Medullah posted:Y'know, I was a bit miffed at the gearing changes, but now I love it. The salty goodness on Reddit and the official forums is just delicious. I have yet to get over to the whining on Reddit, but the treating the gearing changes like it's a sign of the Apocalypse is priceless. I've already seen the arguments go from 'how dare those have-nots that I refuse to explain boss fights to have the chance to get raid gear that isn't from a raid' to 'removing expertise from PvP gear will kill PvP' to 'what do you mean that gear mods will cost credits instead of crystals' and my all time favorite 'you're punishing the veteran players to cater to the casuals'.
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Oct 19, 2016 00:01
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Will War Hero color crystals turn into Hawkeye or Eviscerating versions?
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Oct 19, 2016 00:07
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prefect posted:Will War Hero color crystals turn into Hawkeye or Eviscerating versions? They are becoming Mastery crystals.
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Oct 19, 2016 00:10
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Medullah posted:They are becoming Mastery crystals. Here's a question I keep forgetting to ask: does anyone ever use Indestructible crystals? Should tanks use them, or is that only needed when you're a raider?
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Oct 19, 2016 00:13
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prefect posted:Here's a question I keep forgetting to ask: does anyone ever use Indestructible crystals? Should tanks use them, or is that only needed when you're a raider? Tanks will generally use them. Though there's some benefit in using power or Crit to hold threat easier but it's 82 of whatever stat you pick so it's largely negligible.
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Oct 19, 2016 00:17
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EdEddnEddy posted:Jeeze, while harse, that actually sounds sort of more "rewarding" when things all come together... Can't say I know anything about it now. I stopped after the velious expansion. That was before instancing existed. And, if you would agro a mob it would chase you until you zoned, and Aggro all its buddies along the way. Nothing like zoning into a dungeon just in time to see someone yelling "train to zone!!!" And then running you over with 40 mobs. If that didn't happen, you would have to find a spawn spot to camp in a dungeon. The specials that dropped loot had a random chance of spawning in place of a placeholder. Spawn times were long and if a dungeon was heavily camped you would literally sit at one spawn all night waiting the 20 minutes in between spawns hoping the next pop would be the named one. Raiding was rough too. Just imagine having to herd cats and get 40 people online at the same time and organized. I was part of one of the top guilds in eq and it would still take over an hour to get started. People would be late or zoned out somewhere far away. Raids would start at 7 or 8pm and go 6-8 hours. Now that i reflect on it, I have no idea how i had the patience for it.
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Oct 19, 2016 00:59
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That's why I played on Rallos Zek! You camp that item for 20 hours, me and my friends will kill you and take it from you in 20 seconds!
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Oct 19, 2016 01:03
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Everything I have ever heard about Evercrack makes me so glad I never had the desire to try it
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Oct 19, 2016 01:07
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Bilirubin posted:Everything I have ever heard about Evercrack makes me so glad I never had the desire to try it The secret of Evercrack is simple. "We were literal children and didn't know any better because we had no frame of reference"
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Oct 19, 2016 03:45
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GuyUpNorth posted:I know WoW had 40-man raids up to... Burning Crusade or Lich King? Whichever had Naxxramas. And as far as Everquest goes, it apparently still has dedicated cult of players. Enough to keep going at least. 40 man raids in WoW were strictly Vanilla.
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Oct 19, 2016 03:58
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for all the poo poo that came with, everquest did have some nice design choices that most modern mmos dont. being able to gently caress with almost any npc, including guards - only elder scrolls online features that kind of gameplay from recent titles. a faction system that wasn't stuck based on what you rolled. i miss the shear size of the zones and having the occasional higher than zone average npcs roaming around, keeping things interesting. not too mention all the crazy poo poo you could find just exploring, from islands to hidden sewers. also having personal deity was a cool little lore bit. wow for better or worse focused entirely on raiding and had a much shallower approach to world building
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Oct 19, 2016 06:23
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Since we're talking old MMOs, what was the allure around Star Wars Galaxies? I didn't start playing MMOs until DDO and my frame of reference has been WoW, LOTRO, Secret World and SWTOR. From how people in SWTOR wax nostalgic about SWG, it sounds as if it was more like Secret Life with a Star Wars skin. What was the big deal with SWG? Was it just that point in time of something Star Wars combined with MMO or something more?
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Oct 19, 2016 08:30
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Waldorf Sixpence posted:As someone who raids two to three times a week and has seen no progression or loot or anything in nearly a year, and no new raids in two years M_Sinistrari posted:Since we're talking old MMOs, what was the allure around Star Wars Galaxies? I didn't start playing MMOs until DDO and my frame of reference has been WoW, LOTRO, Secret World and SWTOR. From how people in SWTOR wax nostalgic about SWG, it sounds as if it was more like Secret Life with a Star Wars skin. What was the big deal with SWG? Was it just that point in time of something Star Wars combined with MMO or something more? *I know when I play a Star Wars game I totally want to run a moisture farm or dance on a table for hours!
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Oct 19, 2016 08:39
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Asimo posted:
ahem
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Oct 19, 2016 08:52
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M_Sinistrari posted:Since we're talking old MMOs, what was the allure around Star Wars Galaxies? I didn't start playing MMOs until DDO and my frame of reference has been WoW, LOTRO, Secret World and SWTOR. From how people in SWTOR wax nostalgic about SWG, it sounds as if it was more like Secret Life with a Star Wars skin. What was the big deal with SWG? Was it just that point in time of something Star Wars combined with MMO or something more? SWG was a sandbox mmo. You created a character that wasn't the hero of the galaxy, he/she was just a person in the galaxy. You started neutral and could completely optionally do some faction poo poo to be rep/imp and at any time you could switch sides and work your rep back up for the other. And for the most part the rep was only for pvp related stuff. One of the things I liked a lot about swg was the crafting and resource system. It was pretty complex and if you wanted to be good you literally needed a spreadsheet and a website that tracked resource spawns. Every resource was unique and could spawn for something like just 12 hours to a week. They had random stats and those stats affected the parts you built. Gathering mass resources meant you had to rely on other people and you had to socialize.
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Oct 19, 2016 11:17
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Asimo posted:*I know when I play a Star Wars game I totally want to run a moisture farm or dance on a table for hours! That's what the Star Trek game is for.
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Oct 19, 2016 12:29
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Asimo posted:holy loving poo poo dude, quit and go do something else with your free time. doing things multiple times a week for no results for a year or more is insane, and it's triply so in an MMO with basically no raiding culture. this admission is sending up all sorts of addiction problem warning bells, even if you don't realize it I took like a six month break recently and my raid group is just trying to kill Revan before 5.0. It's really not an issue to play a video game for a few hours a week, my dude. By the way, remember when I said HM FPs were easier than tacticals? Well I'd like to go back in time and punch myself in the dick after trying to get through Lost Island HM with a group finder group.
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Oct 19, 2016 12:45
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Bilirubin posted:Everything I have ever heard about Evercrack makes me so glad I never had the desire to try it Read about Fansy the Bard and tell me you wouldn't want to at least take a look: http://www.notaddicted.com/fansythefamous.php
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Oct 19, 2016 12:52
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phosdex posted:had to rely on other people and you had to socialize. *shiver*
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Oct 19, 2016 13:04
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Tedious bullshit was a selling point for MMOs once. And also it was Star Wars.
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Oct 19, 2016 13:35
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phosdex posted:One of the things I liked a lot about swg was the crafting and resource system. It was pretty complex and if you wanted to be good you literally needed a spreadsheet and a website that tracked resource spawns. Every resource was unique and could spawn for something like just 12 hours to a week. They had random stats and those stats affected the parts you built. Gathering mass resources meant you had to rely on other people and you had to socialize. It was also completely broken at release where some servers didn't spawn certain resources which was real bad since all high end gear was crafted
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Oct 19, 2016 14:17
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Has anyone summoned the fortitude to finish KOTFE on multiple characters? It seems incredibly daunting since it's essentially the same story
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Oct 19, 2016 14:48
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Waffles Inc. posted:Has anyone summoned the fortitude to finish KOTFE on multiple characters? It seems incredibly daunting since it's essentially the same story With the power of the space bar it's not terrible. I did it 4 times to get Legendary rewards on 4 servers. The worst chapter to repeat is the Marr/Satele chapter because I always miss lighting one of the stupid fires and can never remember where they all are.
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Oct 19, 2016 15:26
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Waffles Inc. posted:Has anyone summoned the fortitude to finish KOTFE on multiple characters? It seems incredibly daunting since it's essentially the same story I've done it on six out of eight classes. It's long, it's tedious, you will kill close to a thousand skytroopers and a hundred knights of zakuul over the course of four or five tilesets, you personally do nothing in the plot except what other people tell you to do, and few of the chapters directly contribute to the ongoing plot.
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Oct 19, 2016 15:28
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SWG owned. Thanks to the power of alts and ridiculously broken game mechanics when stretched to the limit, a group of 4 could do just about anything in the same. Why yes, I am soloing an Ancient Krayt Dragon with nothing more than a rifle, a headshot3 macro and 92% resist composite armor. AND I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
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Oct 19, 2016 15:41
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Medullah posted:They are becoming Mastery crystals. I need to start piling up money before this is widely known; war hero crystals are some of the cheapest on the GTN, and some colors I don't have are available that way.
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Oct 19, 2016 16:43
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prefect posted:I need to start piling up money before this is widely known; war hero crystals are some of the cheapest on the GTN, and some colors I don't have are available that way. I wouldn't splurge too much. Most people don't augment Mastery anymore so Power/Crit will still be the crystals of choice for DPS/Heals.
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Oct 19, 2016 16:45
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EdEddnEddy posted:Jeeze, while harse, that actually sounds sort of more "rewarding" when things all come together... Most of the raids were hard to get to for the average player, so you'd have competition from other guilds racing to beat you to it but generally not enough people to lag the area too badly. Plus older content was still relevant even though it didn't scale, there was no easy to get "catch up" gear like there is in WoW where quest greens at the start of the new expansion already outclass all but the best raid gear from the previous expansion. So people were spread out a lot more than they are these days. Dark Age of Camelot was another big one in the day. Relic raids were unplayable on dialup, 200-300 players would meet up at a keep and spam spells at each other. I don't think I ever made it through one without going linkdead and unable to log back in until it was over. DAOC did have the huge raids, borrowed from everquest. Not at first, but it wasn't long before each of the three realms had a dragon to slay. A large underworld was added where you could earn access for your side locking out the other two, then you'd go in and clear out their stragglers then raid the demon bosses down there. The first expansion then included 3 big dungeons and one massive raid dungeon for each faction, pretty cool areas. Trials of Atlantis then went nuts with it, with 10 tiers of 10 challenges each ranging from solo kills/puzzles to group content, to massive raids. The problem was you had to do it all mostly in order which was hard as hell to coordinate for a realm full of people. I was one of the few to finish it all on my server at the time, we had a regular raid group that would catch people up and run through them all. My friends and I loved it though we were far in the minority since most people complained about having to do dungeons and raids to compete in a game that is focused on pvp. People say that is why DAOC died though I think the awkward UI, interface and old feel of the game could not compete with WoW and the other modern games. Everquest is still releasing expansions for the invested players so it must be making enough back from them to be worth keeping going. DAOC is still going too, with a goon presence even. And I guess all this is better suited for an MMO nostalgia thread than the SWTOR thread.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:09
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Medullah posted:I wouldn't splurge too much. Most people don't augment Mastery anymore so Power/Crit will still be the crystals of choice for DPS/Heals. Yeah, but if I want to run around with a red-black crystal, this is the only way I'm going to get one. 
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Oct 19, 2016 17:11
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prefect posted:Yeah, but if I want to run around with a red-black crystal, this is the only way I'm going to get one. If you don't want a cartel version I can make you a power one. 
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Oct 19, 2016 17:16
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I did the finale to the sith inquisitor storyline the other day and loved it, but I can't place the theme that plays right when you bust out the ghost power and beat thanaton into the ground and it's bugging me. Does anyone who did that bit recently know it's name?
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Oct 19, 2016 19:33
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